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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 10:25:07 GMT -5
Thank you Cherie for those posts they are spot on, as always. I agree with the comment, "It is a known fact that dictatorships fall when the peons (those at the bottom) refuse to go along with the laws of the dictator/s anymore..."
I know 2x2's that have been faithful for years, now leaving because of this reason. They tell me the Workers are not listening, just doing their own thing.
But you and I know that the Workers will say that the falling away is a sign of the end times. That has been getting trotted out for many years. I can remember hearing in from Bill Carroll 70 years ago. And of course we will get the blame, it is Satan working in us to destroy the "Truth". Tactics that have been a part of 2x2 doctrine since it began 120 years ago. You Cherie were accused recently of running a campaign to destroy 2x2's, which I know you would have got many times. Of course not true.
There is no way that they will take any responsibility for the collapse by saying we got it wrong. We should not have put in all those man made rules, that interfered in people's lives. They were not supported by scripture, just a few ideas of an eccentric. We won't hear that. Just blame put on others.
And if Overseers continue to be dictatorial and not consult with the Congregation, they can expect a backlash. It is their choice.
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Post by iam on Apr 9, 2020 11:15:55 GMT -5
Those must have been very difficult times for you, ips. Traumatic. 😄 I escaped though! Our MegaChurch'R'Us accepts all naked Mexican Death Rappers! Unless they're gay. You discriminate against gays🤨? Tsk tsk. I had thought better of you.
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Post by iam on Apr 9, 2020 11:56:48 GMT -5
I remember the days when Mexican Death Rap couldn't be played in the 15 minutes prior to meeting, and there was a strict "no nudity" policy on convention grounds! We were sorely opposed in those harsher times! I never heard the music at convention but did see some rather odd sights. One... a naked guy hugging a tree in the middle of the night at Masterton Conv. Workers chased him but didn't catch him. Two.. a guy that was dressed, sleeping outside in the rain on the ground with one of those aluminium wash bowls over his head. Also at Masterton. Both guys came to a sticky end later on in life. You sure the naked guy wasn't ips?🧐
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Post by iam on Apr 9, 2020 12:00:40 GMT -5
Today outward appearances is less of an issue today. But if you try to take a meeting or have the emblems served outside of a worker appointed home, you could incur the wrath of the senior workers. Wonder what would happen to the Elders or Friends believed they had the right to serve/take the emblems and did so and didnt hide this from the workers? Or if a group of Elders went to the Workers and advised them they didn't agree with their rule and weren't going to abide by it? It is a known fact that dictatorships fall when the peons (those at the bottom) refuse to go along with the laws of the dictator/s anymore... I can't see any of the elders I know doing that. No one would want to risk losing their privileges, place and praise that goes with the territory.
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Post by iam on Apr 9, 2020 12:14:25 GMT -5
Hardly! That watch was probably the most expensive thing that my parents had ever bought for me! One reason was it had to have a second hand in order to check a patients pulse.
BTW, -I still have it even though it gave up the ghost a long time ago. Forgive me but I thought you didn't believe in the spirit world? Only if they wear jewelry...or watches. Teehee😄
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Post by snow on Apr 9, 2020 13:00:18 GMT -5
I don't know that you would call it a taboo but some female workers (in particular M.G) seemed to make it their special no-no. Molly would berate the girls telling them that they (the white shoes) looked like boxes!! Of course the parents would then stop the girls from wearing them. I remember this same lady on the 'welcoming committee' at convention as you were driving in instructing my sister to take off her gold watch - Yes, I can remember no "wrist" watches. I was allowed to have one because I was a nurse.
For me it was no engagement ring. The engagement ring was a wrist watch if I had been professing and went along with what was the norm at that time. Anyone else had that happen?
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Post by Get off of TMB on Apr 9, 2020 13:21:05 GMT -5
I can't see any of the elders I know doing that. No one would want to risk losing their privileges, place and praise that goes with the territory. **** If enough of the monied saints got together, the workers would back down. But many blue collar saints feel inferior and feel that "the workers know what's best"...because they sacrifice for our souls or something like that.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 9, 2020 13:39:02 GMT -5
I never heard the music at convention but did see some rather odd sights. One... a naked guy hugging a tree in the middle of the night at Masterton Conv. Workers chased him but didn't catch him. Two.. a guy that was dressed, sleeping outside in the rain on the ground with one of those aluminium wash bowls over his head. Also at Masterton. Both guys came to a sticky end later on in life. You sure the naked guy wasn't ips?🧐 IPS?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 14:36:17 GMT -5
I escaped though! Our MegaChurch'R'Us accepts all naked Mexican Death Rappers! Unless they're gay. You discriminate against gays🤨? Tsk tsk. I had thought better of you. oh - not homosexuals - they're welcome! We just don't like cheerful, happy people!
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Post by iam on Apr 9, 2020 15:43:58 GMT -5
You discriminate against gays🤨? Tsk tsk. I had thought better of you. oh - not homosexuals - they're welcome! We just don't like cheerful, happy people! That's what I meant! Gays! Cheerful, happy people! Discrimination!😠
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Post by iam on Apr 9, 2020 15:45:42 GMT -5
You sure the naked guy wasn't ips?🧐 IPS? Ipsedixit...the guy that complained about no nudity at convention. You just can't please everyone 😒
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 9, 2020 15:54:01 GMT -5
Ipsedixit...the guy that complained about no nudity at convention. You just can't please everyone 😒 I see. Nope it was not Ips. Masterton Convention is in NZ. The guy later married and then did jail time for various offences against his ex wife.
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Post by fred on Apr 9, 2020 19:11:57 GMT -5
And that is precisely what happened in NSW - ended with a good result for everyone.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Apr 10, 2020 13:05:26 GMT -5
In my area, people want to keep in their place.
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Post by christiansburg on Apr 10, 2020 16:05:41 GMT -5
It would be easier if everyone didn't have to speak, rather than just one sermon. Would everyone sing the hymns together? I'd like to live in the house where the alto was sung. Don't think I would like that Everybody would be trying to talk at the same time. Nobody would be listening to the next guy.
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Post by christiansburg on Apr 10, 2020 16:15:18 GMT -5
Give it time, it will change always does. Just takes a bit longer for 2x2's to catch up to the rest of the World. God example, TV's, ban now lifted after 60 years. There have been many bans lifted since it began 120 years ago. Overseers are probably worried that the flock may become "Groupies". We have each others e-mail and send our thoughts to each other in the group. What could be better. I am keeping a record of all our shared comments. I believe this is how we ended up with a written record of the Psalms. The Psalms would have been written down in real time. The Psalmist would have written down his feelings and prayers as they occured and then kept them. Would probably go back and read them over and over bringing back his memories of the past.
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Post by xna on Apr 10, 2020 16:42:31 GMT -5
In those telephone meetings when they talk to god, would that be a local or long distance call?
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 11, 2020 1:47:11 GMT -5
Hardly! That watch was probably the most expensive thing that my parents had ever bought for me! One reason was it had to have a second hand in order to check a patients pulse.
BTW, -I still have it even though it gave up the ghost a long time ago. Forgive me but I thought you didn't believe in the spirit world? !
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Post by Get off of TMB on Apr 11, 2020 8:36:43 GMT -5
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Post by Get off of TMB on Apr 11, 2020 8:39:33 GMT -5
If Dean Bruer allows phone meetings and Barry Barkley's underlings don't allow it, how can they claim to be in the same fellowship?
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Post by CherieKropp on Apr 11, 2020 9:12:08 GMT -5
If Dean Bruer allows phone meetings and Barry Barkley's underlings don't allow it, how can they claim to be in the same fellowship? Is that what is happening?? 1 Corinthians 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
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Post by iam on Apr 11, 2020 11:58:22 GMT -5
If Dean Bruer allows phone meetings and Barry Barkley's underlings don't allow it, how can they claim to be in the same fellowship? Maybe because as one worker said, "I suppose as many people there are in this life, that's how many religions there are".
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Post by Get off of TMB on Apr 11, 2020 13:39:52 GMT -5
workers in WA, OR, and some of the eastern Canadian provinces are having meetings by phone. Seems like Barry Barkley and Jerome Frandle are opposed to phone meetings. Amazing how things can in OK in one area and wrong in another.
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Post by iam on Apr 11, 2020 14:29:34 GMT -5
workers in WA, OR, and some of the eastern Canadian provinces are having meetings by phone. Seems like Barry Barkley and Jerome Frandle are opposed to phone meetings. Amazing how things can in OK in one area and wrong in another. I don't see it as ok or wrong either way. Some do some don't. We have not felt at all like we are not being helped from having our own times of worship together at home. Miss a few we used to see at meetings and others with the self-righteous we're right everyone else is wrong spirit, don't miss that at all. The other thing I don't miss is the importance placed on appearance. A friend once cornered me in a shopping mall and upbraided me for wearing leggings and socks to meeting instead of nylons. Kind of disgusted me coming from her that had an affair that no one knows about with our elder. Talk about straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. That was only maybe 5 years ago and the nylons aren't worn near as much as they used to be but the attitude remains.
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Post by Grant on Apr 11, 2020 14:45:17 GMT -5
People often put down others to make themselves feel better and the focus off their own failings.
You may notice that people who feel good about themselves are less likely to judge others.
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Post by chuck on Apr 11, 2020 22:10:42 GMT -5
For cryingn out loud its only been a couple of weeks but the withdrawals to save ourselves are to strong too overcome already. Wake up 2x2's. If you never had fellowoship ever again it would not matter. Does this make fellowship bad?, hang no!, but it puts it into perspective what fellowship is actually for, and its not for your salvation, Jesus has already taken care of that!. Fellowship is remembering that!, celebrating that!. Not for doing better, trying harder,ect ect and literally loving yourself into submission of 2x2 dogma. 2x2's are like drug addicts. They need there fix of 2x2 crack bad!. It's religion that is the drug. It has the same affect as an opioid. Plenty of things fall under the meaning of religion. Do you mean all of them or are you just singling out some?.
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Post by chuck on Apr 11, 2020 22:17:45 GMT -5
It's religion that is the drug. It has the same affect as an opioid. Yes, this is a good example of just how dangerous religious indoctrination can be. Religions worldwide are showing just how much it effects their ability to think rationally. Thank goodness not all of the religious are as addicted as some of them are. The 2x2's did the right thing canceling face to face meetings. I agree. This is what happens when religions forcefully express a "existent" God!. And this is why the question is rightfully asked over the years in troubling times, "where is your all powerful God now?".
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Post by nathan on Apr 11, 2020 22:26:50 GMT -5
workers in WA, OR, and some of the eastern Canadian provinces are having meetings by phone. Seems like Barry Barkley and Jerome Frandle are opposed to phone meetings. Amazing how things can in OK in one area and wrong in another. I don't see it as ok or wrong either way. Some do some don't. We have not felt at all like we are not being helped from having our own times of worship together at home. Miss a few we used to see at meetings and others with the self-righteous we're right everyone else is wrong spirit, don't miss that at all. The other thing I don't miss is the importance placed on appearance. A friend once cornered me in a shopping mall and upbraided me for wearing leggings and socks to meeting instead of nylons. Kind of disgusted me coming from her that had an affair that no one knows about with our elder. Talk about straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. That was only maybe 5 years ago and the nylons aren't worn near as much as they used to be but the attitude remains. You should have told her to take the beam out in your own eye first, before try to remove the mote in my eye. Many of the professing women are wearing leggings to the fellowship and gospel meetings during winter time in Oregon for quite awhile now... that is very modesty to cover yourself up without showing too much skins.
God gives us brains so let us use it wisely... If the phones meetings are helping in encouraging the friends faith in God then use it.
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