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Post by Get off of TMB on Apr 5, 2020 18:19:28 GMT -5
I wonder how it works. Do you call a number and then type in code? Or do you speak with someone, give them your code and then they approve your call. I notice a denominational church online using a similar system. Just wondering.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2020 18:24:04 GMT -5
It would be easier if everyone didn't have to speak, rather than just one sermon. Would everyone sing the hymns together? I'd like to live in the house where the alto was sung.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 18:26:37 GMT -5
I wonder how it works. Do you call a number and then type in code? Or do you speak with someone, give them your code and then they approve your call. I notice a denominational church online using a similar system. Just wondering. you call the number then type in the code...then wait for meeting to start....its best if you have a speaker phone instead of having to hold the phone to your ear.....plus more can hear it if you don't have multiple phones....
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Post by snow on Apr 6, 2020 13:40:54 GMT -5
I wonder how it works. Do you call a number and then type in code? Or do you speak with someone, give them your code and then they approve your call. I notice a denominational church online using a similar system. Just wondering. you call the number then type in the code...then wait for meeting to start....its best if you have a speaker phone instead of having to hold the phone to your ear.....plus more can hear it if you don't have multiple phones.... Why don't they use video chat on Face book. The meetings would likely need to be smaller but they could see each other and it would have more of a meeting feel to it. Or create a hangouts group. That one works quite well too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 15:34:14 GMT -5
you call the number then type in the code...then wait for meeting to start....its best if you have a speaker phone instead of having to hold the phone to your ear.....plus more can hear it if you don't have multiple phones.... Why don't they use video chat on Face book. The meetings would likely need to be smaller but they could see each other and it would have more of a meeting feel to it. Or create a hangouts group. That one works quite well too. That sounds like good common sense Snow. But unfortunately some Overseers don't have much of that. Some are saying we can't do that "We must follow the example of Jesus in all things" They don't seem to, or don't want to understand that Jesus lived more than 2000 years ago. Sort of a different World. The crazy thing is Jesus would not have had a Laptop, iPhone, Car, Credit Cards, etc. Yet Workers have all these things and use them freely. How do they make these decisions on what is good and what is bad. Over the years it has turned their Church into a bit of a joke. Sometimes I wonder if they have been on the cooking sherry.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 20:13:25 GMT -5
you call the number then type in the code...then wait for meeting to start....its best if you have a speaker phone instead of having to hold the phone to your ear.....plus more can hear it if you don't have multiple phones.... Why don't they use video chat on Face book. The meetings would likely need to be smaller but they could see each other and it would have more of a meeting feel to it. Or create a hangouts group. That one works quite well too. not everyone has a computer or knows how to use it...everyone has a phone?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 20:36:31 GMT -5
We were copied on an email to the friends - they were instructed NOT to have audio or video conference calls for Sunday meeting. Just meeting in their homes, and after meeting they were encouraged to call others and discuss what they heard.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 21:06:43 GMT -5
Why don't they use video chat on Face book. The meetings would likely need to be smaller but they could see each other and it would have more of a meeting feel to it. Or create a hangouts group. That one works quite well too. not everyone has a computer or knows how to use it...everyone has a phone? Most phones nowadays are iPhones, like the Workers have. You can have a hangout group on them. They may be put of by the name "Hangout" Perhaps it could be called something more reverent like " In the Spirit".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 23:09:25 GMT -5
Why don't they use video chat on Face book. The meetings would likely need to be smaller but they could see each other and it would have more of a meeting feel to it. Or create a hangouts group. That one works quite well too. That sounds like good common sense Snow. But unfortunately some Overseers don't have much of that. Some are saying we can't do that "We must follow the example of Jesus in all things" They don't seem to, or don't want to understand that Jesus lived more than 2000 years ago. Sort of a different World. The crazy thing is Jesus would not have had a Laptop, iPhone, Car, Credit Cards, etc. Yet Workers have all these things and use them freely. How do they make these decisions on what is good and what is bad. Over the years it has turned their Church into a bit of a joke. Sometimes I wonder if they have been on the cooking sherry. Apparently it’s perfectly legitimate to have things that Jesus didn’t have providing they are “necessary”. And the things you mention, cars, mobile phones, credit cards and laptops are all now deemed to be “necessary”. I found this out a few years ago when I pressed a hearty 2x2 on why members had been banned from having a 3 channel television in the 1970s (and which shut down for 12 hours daily) but were now permitted to have electronic devices in the home with access to online gambling, participatory pornography, risqué films, live football, rock music, false church services and every other form of worldliness that the devil could dream up. He explained to me that the basis of the telly ban was to keep the world out of the home and to prevent one giving time to worldly pleasures that would be better dedicated to the things of God such as bible reading, attending meetings, preparing for meetings and meditation. However when I pointed out to him that having an internet accessible device allowed more worldliness into the home 24/7 than one could possibly imagine, he explained that things such as mobile phones and iPads were necessary in the modern world to enable people to “operate their businesses”. He likened such devices as the modern day equivalent to cars and landline telephones. We could be ‘in this world’ he said, but we didn’t need to be ‘of it’. While I was struggling to get my head around how God could frown upon a person having a radio in their kitchen in the 1970s but now thought it perfectly permissible for a person to have access to a naked Patricia performing live in their bedroom, he also pointed out that workers had iPhones and iPads on the basis that these were necessary for things such as “booking flights”. I guess the best thing about being a religious leader is the power that it gives you access to. And it is entirely up to you how you exercise it. You can exercise it foolishly, inconsistently, hypocritically or abusively and in the unlikely event that anyone challenges you on it, you can tell them that you have prayed to God about it and that God had said that what you were doing is right. I’m glad I got to the point where I realised that when people claimed they were talking to God it was merely themselves they were having the conversation with. Matt10
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 6, 2020 23:53:35 GMT -5
We were copied on an email to the friends - they were instructed NOT to have audio or video conference calls for Sunday meeting. Just meeting in their homes, and after meeting they were encouraged to call others and discuss what they heard. I like the last bit. How does that work if you live by yourself?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 0:01:34 GMT -5
Matt, it all is so crazy, there is no rhyme or reason to it. if the Workers can use it then it is kosher. There is no way that Churches should tell people what to do in their daily lives, they will work that out for themselves. Clergy are there to give spiritual guidance, and they should restrict themselves to that. Main stream Churches do, they don't give you a set of rules to live by, and comply with or your are out.
I was always cranky that we were not allowed to have proper weddings. Why???. They had weddings big time in the Bible. Jesus provided the wine. We have been married 59 years tomorrow. But it had to be in a Registry office, long before civil celebrants started. Registry offices were few and far between in Victoria, we had to travel 80kms to the nearest one. The Registrar also was a second hand dealer. His office only had room for him,his table and 2 people standing. Parents and witnesses had to stand outside. We had to go outside while the witnesses came in to sign. And to top it all off, when we were making our vows a guy burst in to the office wanting to know the price of a piano out the back. The Registrar had the decency to tell him to wait, he would see him shortly. I thought it was considerate of him, to finish marrying us, before he sold the piano. My Wife got chipped by a Worker for wearing white shoes, should have been black. We thought they were for meetings and funerals.
It is a disgrace that weddings had to be like that, because of a stupid rule made by a Worker. No justification for it, misuse of power. However we got the piece of paper, and have been happily married for 59 years, that is the main thing. We do hope to make 60, will keep our fingers crossed,not that I expect to be thrown out any time soon.
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 7, 2020 1:19:20 GMT -5
Matt, it all is so crazy, there is no rhyme or reason to it. if the Workers can use it then it is kosher. There is no way that Churches should tell people what to do in their daily lives, they will work that out for themselves. Clergy are there to give spiritual guidance, and they should restrict themselves to that. Main stream Churches do, they don't give you a set of rules to live by, and comply with or your are out. I was always cranky that we were not allowed to have proper weddings. Why???. They had weddings big time in the Bible. Jesus provided the wine. We have been married 59 years tomorrow. But it had to be in a Registry office, long before civil celebrants started. Registry offices were few and far between in Victoria, we had to travel 80kms to the nearest one. The Registrar also was a second hand dealer. His office only had room for him,his table and 2 people standing. Parents and witnesses had to stand outside. We had to go outside while the witnesses came in to sign. And to top it all off, when we were making our vows a guy burst in to the office wanting to know the price of a piano out the back. The Registrar had the decency to tell him to wait, he would see him shortly. I thought it was considerate of him, to finish marrying us, before he sold the piano. My Wife got chipped by a Worker for wearing white shoes, should have been black. We thought they were for meetings and funerals. It is a disgrace that weddings had to be like that, because of a stupid rule made by a Worker. No justification for it, misuse of power. However we got the piece of paper, and have been happily married for 59 years, that is the main thing. We do hope to make 60, will keep our fingers crossed,not that I expect to be thrown out any time soon. Those sorts of things were rife when we got married too. Our attitude was along the lines of “go and get stuffed”, it’s our wedding, not yours. My wife wore her hair down and had the wedding dress she wanted. And of course, we didn’t restrict the drink to Grape Juice either! It is cruelty to deny a couple what is normal attire and customs for their special day. Thank goodness those workers who made those edicts, and their henchmen and henchwomen who rigidly enforced them have passed on, and things are normal now. We took some flak, of course, but that soon dissipated. Some 30+ years later, still happily married, still professing, and kids grown up and left home with good Christian values instilled in them.
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Post by fred on Apr 7, 2020 1:24:53 GMT -5
Matt, it all is so crazy, there is no rhyme or reason to it. if the Workers can use it then it is kosher. There is no way that Churches should tell people what to do in their daily lives, they will work that out for themselves. Clergy are there to give spiritual guidance, and they should restrict themselves to that. Main stream Churches do, they don't give you a set of rules to live by, and comply with or your are out. I was always cranky that we were not allowed to have proper weddings. Why???. They had weddings big time in the Bible. Jesus provided the wine. We have been married 59 years tomorrow. But it had to be in a Registry office, long before civil celebrants started. Registry offices were few and far between in Victoria, we had to travel 80kms to the nearest one. The Registrar also was a second hand dealer. His office only had room for him,his table and 2 people standing. Parents and witnesses had to stand outside. We had to go outside while the witnesses came in to sign. And to top it all off, when we were making our vows a guy burst in to the office wanting to know the price of a piano out the back. The Registrar had the decency to tell him to wait, he would see him shortly. I thought it was considerate of him, to finish marrying us, before he sold the piano. My Wife got chipped by a Worker for wearing white shoes, should have been black. We thought they were for meetings and funerals. It is a disgrace that weddings had to be like that, because of a stupid rule made by a Worker. No justification for it, misuse of power. However we got the piece of paper, and have been happily married for 59 years, that is the main thing. We do hope to make 60, will keep our fingers crossed,not that I expect to be thrown out any time soon. A little more about wedding rules - but of course we have no rules: The wedding breakfast was to be kept to less than 40 Workers were not encouraged to attend and in fact on occasion were forbidden even though it was a family member. The bride should wear a dress that she could wear to the Sunday meeting. Weddings were not to be on Saturday (not a problem as the registry office wasn't open.) Of course when queried about those instructions more recently it is vehemently denied - for those of us that lived through those times it is very real. Though the rules were probably formulated by older men workers, the older females were keen to implement them. Some of those older women were real harridans and the girls were frightened of them, leading to a simmering disrespect I'm sure.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 2:41:31 GMT -5
Thank you Pragmatic and Fred for your posts. We complied because as far as our parents were concerned you never ever challenged a Worker because they were "Servants of God". And it is good as Pragmatic mentioned that common sense has prevailed and those draconian rules have gone. It is the way it should be, people living their daily lives without interference by Workers.
And now those rules have gone, you have to wonder why they were ever put there. The thing that sticks in my craw is that there was no justification for putting the rules there in the first place. It meant that we were not allowed to live a normal life, which is everybody's right. It is one of the reasons I was unable to be a 2x2. It never ever made sense to me, the rubbish ant rot that we had to endure. All needless.
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 7, 2020 3:04:53 GMT -5
Yup, and family synergies also played a part. For example, the bride’s parents paying for the wedding as was the custom, could only be pushed so far, and if they were worker sycophants there would be a problem that required Kissinger diplomacy!
We used to refer to the women enforcers as the “riot squad”.
I also recall that the edict at the time was that a wedding had to be at a home.
You had to be strong to go against the power of the clergy!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 5:37:51 GMT -5
Matt, it all is so crazy, there is no rhyme or reason to it. if the Workers can use it then it is kosher. There is no way that Churches should tell people what to do in their daily lives, they will work that out for themselves. Clergy are there to give spiritual guidance, and they should restrict themselves to that. Main stream Churches do, they don't give you a set of rules to live by, and comply with or your are out. I was always cranky that we were not allowed to have proper weddings. Why???. They had weddings big time in the Bible. Jesus provided the wine. We have been married 59 years tomorrow. But it had to be in a Registry office, long before civil celebrants started. Registry offices were few and far between in Victoria, we had to travel 80kms to the nearest one. The Registrar also was a second hand dealer. His office only had room for him,his table and 2 people standing. Parents and witnesses had to stand outside. We had to go outside while the witnesses came in to sign. And to top it all off, when we were making our vows a guy burst in to the office wanting to know the price of a piano out the back. The Registrar had the decency to tell him to wait, he would see him shortly. I thought it was considerate of him, to finish marrying us, before he sold the piano. My Wife got chipped by a Worker for wearing white shoes, should have been black. We thought they were for meetings and funerals. It is a disgrace that weddings had to be like that, because of a stupid rule made by a Worker. No justification for it, misuse of power. However we got the piece of paper, and have been happily married for 59 years, that is the main thing. We do hope to make 60, will keep our fingers crossed,not that I expect to be thrown out any time soon. I suspect that the “rules” on weddings are primarily about control although they are also consistent with the evangelical and Scottish presbyterian roots of the 2x2 movement which frowned upon all forms of “worldliness” including those things normally associated with weddings such as fun, dancing and alcohol. The three great traditional roles of the church in the life of man (and woman) namely hatching, matching and dispatching were dealt with by the 2x2 church through various means. Christenings were not undertaken but instead adult baptism was adopted over which the workers exercised complete control. The decision on whether one got baptised was for the workers, and for the workers alone. Funerals were also taken over by workers with the content of the sermon solely a matter for the workers and frequently used as an opportunity to recruit new members often to the disappointment of the family because the lately departed barely got a mention. This left only the issue of weddings which for legal reasons workers couldn’t perform. And if workers couldn’t be in the lead role at weddings they certainly weren’t going to have a subordinate role. They therefore exercised control in absentia through rules on how the bride dressed and the permitted number of guests etc. The 2x2 church survives through a combination of conditioning and control. Control over weddings is just part of the attempt to exercise control over all aspects of members’ lives. I guess that’s religion for you. You can’t risk people thinking for themselves. Matt10
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Post by Get off of TMB on Apr 7, 2020 9:58:58 GMT -5
Workers in Seattle, Portland, Quebec and Ontario are having phone meetings. But if they only give out their numbers to select friends, they are only preaching to the choir. If they don't have a facebook or craigslist ad, how will the so called "lost sheep" hear the gospel? While I applaud them for having these phone meetings, why be so selective about who listens in on them? Messrs Frandle and Barkley aren't comfortable with this kind of setup and thus their friends aren't having fellowship right now.
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Post by iam on Apr 7, 2020 11:47:11 GMT -5
Matt, it all is so crazy, there is no rhyme or reason to it. if the Workers can use it then it is kosher. There is no way that Churches should tell people what to do in their daily lives, they will work that out for themselves. Clergy are there to give spiritual guidance, and they should restrict themselves to that. Main stream Churches do, they don't give you a set of rules to live by, and comply with or your are out. I was always cranky that we were not allowed to have proper weddings. Why???. They had weddings big time in the Bible. Jesus provided the wine. We have been married 59 years tomorrow. But it had to be in a Registry office, long before civil celebrants started. Registry offices were few and far between in Victoria, we had to travel 80kms to the nearest one. The Registrar also was a second hand dealer. His office only had room for him,his table and 2 people standing. Parents and witnesses had to stand outside. We had to go outside while the witnesses came in to sign. And to top it all off, when we were making our vows a guy burst in to the office wanting to know the price of a piano out the back. The Registrar had the decency to tell him to wait, he would see him shortly. I thought it was considerate of him, to finish marrying us, before he sold the piano. My Wife got chipped by a Worker for wearing white shoes, should have been black. We thought they were for meetings and funerals. It is a disgrace that weddings had to be like that, because of a stupid rule made by a Worker. No justification for it, misuse of power. However we got the piece of paper, and have been happily married for 59 years, that is the main thing. We do hope to make 60, will keep our fingers crossed,not that I expect to be thrown out any time soon. Happy anniversary!🎉
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 11:52:01 GMT -5
Workers in Seattle, Portland, Quebec and Ontario are having phone meetings. But if they only give out their numbers to select friends, they are only preaching to the choir. If they don't have a facebook or craigslist ad, how will the so called "lost sheep" hear the gospel? While I applaud them for having these phone meetings, why be so selective about who listens in on them? Messrs Frandle and Barkley aren't comfortable with this kind of setup and thus their friends aren't having fellowship right now. its nothing we can control at the moment.....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 12:14:42 GMT -5
We were copied on an email to the friends - they were instructed NOT to have audio or video conference calls for Sunday meeting. Just meeting in their homes, and after meeting they were encouraged to call others and discuss what they heard. I like the last bit. How does that work if you live by yourself? "How was your little meeting?" "I hope it does better in coming days..."
And how about next week's meeting? "I really appreciated what I heard last week..."
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Post by snow on Apr 7, 2020 13:09:40 GMT -5
Why don't they use video chat on Face book. The meetings would likely need to be smaller but they could see each other and it would have more of a meeting feel to it. Or create a hangouts group. That one works quite well too. not everyone has a computer or knows how to use it...everyone has a phone? That's true, but a lot do. Everyone using face book obviously do and know how to use it.
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Post by Annan on Apr 7, 2020 14:59:10 GMT -5
Matt, it all is so crazy, there is no rhyme or reason to it. if the Workers can use it then it is kosher. There is no way that Churches should tell people what to do in their daily lives, they will work that out for themselves. Clergy are there to give spiritual guidance, and they should restrict themselves to that. Main stream Churches do, they don't give you a set of rules to live by, and comply with or your are out. I was always cranky that we were not allowed to have proper weddings. Why???. They had weddings big time in the Bible. Jesus provided the wine. We have been married 59 years tomorrow. But it had to be in a Registry office, long before civil celebrants started. Registry offices were few and far between in Victoria, we had to travel 80kms to the nearest one. The Registrar also was a second hand dealer. His office only had room for him,his table and 2 people standing. Parents and witnesses had to stand outside. We had to go outside while the witnesses came in to sign. And to top it all off, when we were making our vows a guy burst in to the office wanting to know the price of a piano out the back. The Registrar had the decency to tell him to wait, he would see him shortly. I thought it was considerate of him, to finish marrying us, before he sold the piano. My Wife got chipped by a Worker for wearing white shoes, should have been black. We thought they were for meetings and funerals. It is a disgrace that weddings had to be like that, because of a stupid rule made by a Worker. No justification for it, misuse of power. However we got the piece of paper, and have been happily married for 59 years, that is the main thing. We do hope to make 60, will keep our fingers crossed,not that I expect to be thrown out any time soon. What about getting married again for your 60th anniversary? A lovely ceremony followed by an intimate dinner with beloved family and friends with all the trimmings. What a wonderful milestone! I've been married to my second husband only 21 years. We'll never make it to 60 years as we will be long turned to dust by then.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Apr 7, 2020 15:24:22 GMT -5
Some asked for the number so their dad could listen to the meetings. If this person got an answer, they got it by perosnal message. How can you evangelize that way, I wonder. I often wonder if they are more interesting in keeping the flock instead of seeking lost souls as they call them.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Apr 7, 2020 18:53:55 GMT -5
Do they ever have these kind of phone meetings?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 19:19:59 GMT -5
Hard to remember they were more than 60 years ago. They were exciting at the time, my shirt used to go up and down my back like a window blind.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 20:13:29 GMT -5
Some asked for the number so their dad could listen to the meetings. If this person got an answer, they got it by perosnal message. How can you evangelize that way, I wonder. I often wonder if they are more interesting in keeping the flock instead of seeking lost souls as they call them. again its nothing we can control at the moment.....
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Post by chuck on Apr 7, 2020 22:10:23 GMT -5
I wonder how it works. Do you call a number and then type in code? Or do you speak with someone, give them your code and then they approve your call. I notice a denominational church online using a similar system. Just wondering. For cryingn out loud its only been a couple of weeks but the withdrawals to save ourselves are to strong too overcome already. Wake up 2x2's. If you never had fellowoship ever again it would not matter. Does this make fellowship bad?, hang no!, but it puts it into perspective what fellowship is actually for, and its not for your salvation, Jesus has already taken care of that!. Fellowship is remembering that!, celebrating that!. Not for doing better, trying harder,ect ect and literally loving yourself into submission of 2x2 dogma. 2x2's are like drug addicts. They need there fix of 2x2 crack bad!.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 7, 2020 22:23:31 GMT -5
I wonder how it works. Do you call a number and then type in code? Or do you speak with someone, give them your code and then they approve your call. I notice a denominational church online using a similar system. Just wondering. For cryingn out loud its only been a couple of weeks but the withdrawals to save ourselves are to strong too overcome already. Wake up 2x2's. If you never had fellowoship ever again it would not matter. Does this make fellowship bad?, hang no!, but it puts it into perspective what fellowship is actually for, and its not for your salvation, Jesus has already taken care of that!. Fellowship is remembering that!, celebrating that!. Not for doing better, trying harder,ect ect and literally loving yourself into submission of 2x2 dogma. 2x2's are like drug addicts. They need there fix of 2x2 crack bad!. It's religion that is the drug. It has the same affect as an opioid.
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