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Post by Dan on Apr 1, 2020 1:55:55 GMT -5
Well, I think a pandemic is an evil thing, and since we're all sinners, I put it in the nonfiction category. Flawless logic cannot be challenged, only denied.
Me thinks you Atheist are running out of talking points. Maybe you could pretend your Christians and allow me to challenge your mythological belief?
Speak for yourself. Don't make assumptions about others.
I was speaking for myself and made no assumptions, just an opinion based on what I believe to be true; "All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). And I think your response accentuated my second point.
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Post by Dan on Apr 1, 2020 2:14:08 GMT -5
Where's the list of pandemics that God has fixed? In Judges God stopped one, but of course He started it too. Imo, evil is the result of sin, a pandemic is an evil thing, whereby this epidemic is directly or indirectly the result of sin. What evidence do you have that leads you to believe that this epidemic is directly or indirectly the result of sin? What evidence is there to show that this isn’t just something that you have made up in an attempt to demonstrate that your religious views have some basis in reality? And how can you conclude that covid19 is a result of sin any more than the common cold, influenza or the measles are the result of sin? Matt10
A&E were not sickly, their deaths were the end result of disease and sickness, and the cause was sin. Its very difficult to find the origin of any virus, but I've read where the last 3 originated in Asia. Corona is guessed to have came from consuming an under-cooked bat, which God had forbidden as an unclean food (Leviticus 11:20). I might ask you the same questions; How did this virus originate? What evidence do you have that sin had nothing to do with it? I personally believe these viruses always existed, it just took sinful actions to find them e.g; If you ram your head into a brick wall, you'll discover what a headache is, your actions uncovered what always existed.
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 1, 2020 3:01:09 GMT -5
If you believe in the concept of sickness being the result of sin, then the opposite must also be true, and that you believe in the prosperity Gospel like Nathan does. (his Landlord rebated his rent, not because he had a mind of his own, or a nice nature, but because God told him to, because God was looking after his own). This is Joel Osteen stuff, just without the steroids!
And how do you explain the deaths from the Ecuadorian convention ground?
The common cold was once a killer, and it wiped many of our indigenous people in the 1800's. Who sinned?
I believe that these were explanations provided in the absence of a scientific explanation.
For example, Epilepsy was "demons", but now we know what causes it, and we can regulate it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2020 3:02:21 GMT -5
What evidence do you have that leads you to believe that this epidemic is directly or indirectly the result of sin? What evidence is there to show that this isn’t just something that you have made up in an attempt to demonstrate that your religious views have some basis in reality? And how can you conclude that covid19 is a result of sin any more than the common cold, influenza or the measles are the result of sin? Matt10
A&E were not sickly, their deaths were the end result of disease and sickness, and the cause was sin. Its very difficult to find the origin of any virus, but I've read where the last 3 originated in Asia. Corona is guessed to have came from consuming an under-cooked bat, which God had forbidden as an unclean food (Leviticus 11:20). I might ask you the same questions; How did this virus originate? What evidence do you have that sin had nothing to do with it? I personally believe these viruses always existed, it just took sinful actions to find them e.g; If you ram your head into a brick wall, you'll discover what a headache is, your actions uncovered what always existed.
You haven’t provided any evidence. Telling us what you believe is not proving evidence. When it comes to facts, beliefs are irrelevant although I am aware that believers here regularly confuse the two and wrongly conclude that if they believe something then that equates to it being true. Nor have you answered question No.3. Not providing evidence and not answering questions appear to be the hallmarks of the believer here. This is because there is no evidence for many of the claims believers make and therefore questions must be avoided as their claims do not stand up to scrutiny. I think therefore that your views on the virus being “as a result of sin” must be placed in the large box labelled “Things I have made up”. Believers are always making things up in an attempt to make it appear that their religious beliefs have a basis in reality. I wrote a long post recently about “convenient attribution” professing.proboards.com/post/896834 explaining how believers consistently falsely attribute things (which have more plausible alternative explanations) to God in order to provide “evidence” that their God really does exist. You are doing something similar here by attributing a cause to a virus that fits with your religious beliefs but for which you have no evidence. I think at this point it is worth pointing out that your claim that “Corona is guessed to have came from consuming an under-cooked bat” is also false and 30 seconds on google would have told you that had you been interested in evidence. Theories about the origin of the virus are not guesses at all but are a result of scientific study. You can read more about the possible origins of the virus here: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.htm. Making stuff up the very anthesis of evidence and is inevitably a sign of weakness in the argument. It is no surprise therefore that believers are reduced to making stuff up so frequently here. The bible itself is filled with made up stuff. I guess that when your God and your religion are both made up they need to be supported by other made up stuff in order to appear plausible. I recall that the 2x2 church made stuff up about originating on the shores of Galilee. Matt10
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 1, 2020 3:20:40 GMT -5
Well said Matt10
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Post by mountain on Apr 1, 2020 3:35:23 GMT -5
A&E were not sickly, their deaths were the end result of disease and sickness, and the cause was sin. Its very difficult to find the origin of any virus, but I've read where the last 3 originated in Asia. Corona is guessed to have came from consuming an under-cooked bat, which God had forbidden as an unclean food (Leviticus 11:20). I might ask you the same questions; How did this virus originate? What evidence do you have that sin had nothing to do with it? I personally believe these viruses always existed, it just took sinful actions to find them e.g; If you ram your head into a brick wall, you'll discover what a headache is, your actions uncovered what always existed.
You haven’t provided any evidence. Telling us what you believe is not proving evidence. When it comes to facts, beliefs are irrelevant although I am aware that believers here regularly confuse the two and wrongly conclude that if they believe something then that equates to it being true. Nor have you answered question No.3. Not providing evidence and not answering questions appear to be the hallmarks of the believer here. This is because there is no evidence for many of the claims believers make and therefore questions must be avoided as their claims do not stand up to scrutiny. I think therefore that your views on the virus being “as a result of sin” must be placed in the large box labelled “Things I have made up”. Believers are always making things up in an attempt to make it appear that their religious beliefs have a basis in reality. I wrote a long post recently about “convenient attribution” professing.proboards.com/post/896834 explaining how believers consistently falsely attribute things (which have more plausible alternative explanations) to God in order to provide “evidence” that their God really does exist. You are doing something similar here by attributing a cause to a virus that fits with your religious beliefs but for which you have no evidence. I think at this point it is worth pointing out that your claim that “Corona is guessed to have came from consuming an under-cooked bat” is also false and 30 seconds on google would have told you that had you been interested in evidence. Theories about the origin of the virus are not guesses at all but are a result of scientific study. You can read more about the possible origins of the virus here: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.htm. Making stuff up the very anthesis of evidence and is inevitably a sign of weakness in the argument. It is no surprise therefore that believers are reduced to making stuff up so frequently here. The bible itself is filled with made up stuff. I guess that when your God and your religion are both made up they need to be supported by other made up stuff in order to appear plausible. I recall that the 2x2 church made stuff up about originating on the shores of Galilee. Matt10
Oh my, my, my! It's amazing how the aural defficiency in some elderly patrons from the Emerald Isle led to this misunderstanding. What was originally preached was....'this goes all the way back to the shores of Galway!' Bad hearing mutated this statement into 'this goes all the way back to the shores of Galilee.' What a fuss that has caused ever since. Like a runaway train, no one knew how to stop it. As long as it had tracks ahead, it would just roll on. The west coast of Ireland is a long way, away from the Middle East, but despite this, the misunderstanding became accepted truth and has stood the test of time. Grats....are you listening? Oh, by the way....yes or no?
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Post by mountain on Apr 1, 2020 3:41:26 GMT -5
Where's the list of pandemics that God has fixed? In Judges God stopped one, but of course He started it too. Imo, evil is the result of sin, a pandemic is an evil thing, whereby this epidemic is directly or indirectly the result of sin. What evidence do you have that leads you to believe that this epidemic is directly or indirectly the result of sin? What evidence is there to show that this isn’t just something that you have made up in an attempt to demonstrate that your religious views have some basis in reality? And how can you conclude that covid19 is a result of sin any more than the common cold, influenza and the measles are the result of sin? Matt10There is abundant medical evidence to support Dan's statement.The common cold and influenza, etc., are directly linked to our sinuses (sin uses). Therefore our useage of sin is clearly connected to such ailments.
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Post by Dan on Apr 1, 2020 3:46:24 GMT -5
If you believe in the concept of sickness being the result of sin, then the opposite must also be true, and that you believe in the prosperity Gospel like Nathan does. (his Landlord rebated his rent, not because he had a mind of his own, or a nice nature, but because God told him to, because God was looking after his own). This is Joel Osteen stuff, just without the steroids! And how do you explain the deaths from the Ecuadorian convention ground? The common cold was once a killer, and it wiped many of our indigenous people in the 1800's. Who sinned? I believe that these were explanations provided in the absence of a scientific explanation. For example, Epilepsy was "demons", but now we know what causes it, and we can regulate it.
I'm speaking from a biblical perspective, I believe that sin brought death into the world and death is generally preempted by various disease & sickness.
The deaths of Christians (convention grounds) is also caused by sin, its rains on the good, the bad, and the ugly alike.
Your right, it is an explanation provided in the absence of a scientific explanation. The bible often explains what science doesn't know.
I don't think that demonic possession was the same as epilepsy, that's just an imagined explanation. Read Matthew 8:28-32, this doesn't describe symptoms of epilepsy?
No, I don't believe in the prosperity gospel, to the contrary, I don't think God gives a hoot whether we are prosperous or not. Its harder for a rich man to make it to heaven, but at the same time, "The worker deserves his wages." (1 Timothy 5:18). "The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat" (2 Thessalonians 3:10). We reap what we sow on earth, but sometimes we can get get lucky.
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Post by nathan on Apr 1, 2020 3:48:40 GMT -5
If you believe in the concept of sickness being the result of sin, then the opposite must also be true, and that you believe in the prosperity Gospel like Nathan does. (his Landlord rebated his rent, not because he had a mind of his own, or a nice nature, but because God told him to, because God was looking after his own). This is Joel Osteen stuff, just without the steroids! And how do you explain the deaths from the Ecuadorian convention ground? The common cold was once a killer, and it wiped many of our indigenous people in the 1800's. Who sinned? I believe that these were explanations provided in the absence of a scientific explanation. For example, Epilepsy was "demons", but now we know what causes it, and we can regulate it. No, that is according to God NOT the gospel according to Nathan, there are many believers God allowed go through hard and difficult trials and even died. However, others God protected and NOT die during their tests/trials, like Job.
Satan then told God, “You have made a hedge around him and his house and all that he has on every side” (Job 1:10). From what Satan said, we learn three great truths. God has put a threefold hedge around a godly man: First around him personally, secondly around his family, and thirdly around his finances and his property.
We as believers must have faith in God's choice and decision who to die and who to stay alive to learn the lessons He has for them to learn, and to glorify God like Job did to his friends and family, and his faithful life to God to the end no matters what. Job's faithfulness to God through difficulties has been a great encouragement, comfort to millions people through the ages who face difficult times, trials like the Corona Virus Crisis around the world these days.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 1, 2020 4:12:15 GMT -5
You haven’t provided any evidence. Telling us what you believe is not proving evidence. When it comes to facts, beliefs are irrelevant although I am aware that believers here regularly confuse the two and wrongly conclude that if they believe something then that equates to it being true. Nor have you answered question No.3. Not providing evidence and not answering questions appear to be the hallmarks of the believer here. This is because there is no evidence for many of the claims believers make and therefore questions must be avoided as their claims do not stand up to scrutiny. I think therefore that your views on the virus being “as a result of sin” must be placed in the large box labelled “Things I have made up”. Believers are always making things up in an attempt to make it appear that their religious beliefs have a basis in reality. I wrote a long post recently about “convenient attribution” professing.proboards.com/post/896834 explaining how believers consistently falsely attribute things (which have more plausible alternative explanations) to God in order to provide “evidence” that their God really does exist. You are doing something similar here by attributing a cause to a virus that fits with your religious beliefs but for which you have no evidence. I think at this point it is worth pointing out that your claim that “Corona is guessed to have came from consuming an under-cooked bat” is also false and 30 seconds on google would have told you that had you been interested in evidence. Theories about the origin of the virus are not guesses at all but are a result of scientific study. You can read more about the possible origins of the virus here: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.htm. Making stuff up the very anthesis of evidence and is inevitably a sign of weakness in the argument. It is no surprise therefore that believers are reduced to making stuff up so frequently here. The bible itself is filled with made up stuff. I guess that when your God and your religion are both made up they need to be supported by other made up stuff in order to appear plausible. I recall that the 2x2 church made stuff up about originating on the shores of Galilee. Matt10
Oh my, my, my! It's amazing how the aural defficiency in some elderly patrons from the Emerald Isle led to this misunderstanding. What was originally preached was....'this goes all the way back to the shores of Galway!' Bad hearing mutated this statement into 'this goes all the way back to the shores of Galilee.' What a fuss that has caused ever since. Like a runaway train, no one knew how to stop it. As long as it had tracks ahead, it would just roll on. The west coast of Ireland is a long way, away from the Middle East, but despite this, the misunderstanding became accepted truth and has stood the test of time. Grats....are you listening? Oh, by the way....yes or no? That reminds me of the time I asked the nurse if my test results were back.
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Post by Dan on Apr 1, 2020 4:25:06 GMT -5
<abbr title="Apr 1, 2020 3:02:21 GMT -5" data-timestamp="1585728141000" class="o-timestamp time">Apr 1, 2020 3:02:21 GMT -5</abbr> matt10 said: You haven’t provided any evidence. Telling us what you believe is not proving evidence. When it comes to facts, beliefs are irrelevant although I am aware that believers here regularly confuse the two and wrongly conclude that if they believe something then that equates to it being true. Nor have you answered question No.3. Not providing evidence and not answering questions appear to be the hallmarks of the believer here. This is because there is no evidence for many of the claims believers make and therefore questions must be avoided as their claims do not stand up to scrutiny. I think therefore that your views on the virus being “as a result of sin” must be placed in the large box labelled “Things I have made up”. Believers are always making things up in an attempt to make it appear that their religious beliefs have a basis in reality. I wrote a long post recently about “convenient attribution” professing.proboards.com/post/896834 explaining how believers consistently falsely attribute things (which have more plausible alternative explanations) to God in order to provide “evidence” that their God really does exist. You are doing something similar here by attributing a cause to a virus that fits with your religious beliefs but for which you have no evidence. I think at this point it is worth pointing out that your claim that “Corona is guessed to have came from consuming an under-cooked bat” is also false and 30 seconds on google would have told you that had you been interested in evidence. Theories about the origin of the virus are not guesses at all but are a result of scientific study. You can read more about the possible origins of the virus here: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.htm. Making stuff up the very anthesis of evidence and is inevitably a sign of weakness in the argument. It is no surprise therefore that believers are reduced to making stuff up so frequently here. The bible itself is filled with made up stuff. I guess that when your God and your religion are both made up they need to be supported by other made up stuff in order to appear plausible. I recall that the 2x2 church made stuff up about originating on the shores of Galilee. Matt10
I often preference my comments with "I believe" because my evidence is biblical. You seem to always request evidence of something that's received by faith? Proof eliminates the necessity of faith. I did respond to #3, in that I believe all disease and sickness is derived because of sin, it didn't exist before the fall. Its not made up, its biblical, whether someone wants to accept it or not is up to them.
Believers don't falsely attribute things to God that science can't explain, God is our reality through faith. We believe the recorded evidence that others witnessed, while you don't.
I reviewed that article from your link, it just says the virus had a natural origin and wasn't genetically engineered. And also; "But the scientists found that the SARS-CoV-2 backbone differed substantially from those of already known coronaviruses and mostly resembled related viruses found in bats and pangolins". Answer me this, how did humans contract HIV AIDS?
The evidence Christians accept was revealed, demonstrated, & manifested by Christ. You may construe that to be a weakness, but its our strength. Jesus is not an argument, he's the Truth, and God's truth stands on its own merits. Its doesn't need defending, its just accepted or rejected by those who hear or read it. Everyone sins and everyone dies from some type of ailment or possible accident, so from a biblical standpoint, its not made up.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 1, 2020 5:15:56 GMT -5
<abbr title="Apr 1, 2020 3:02:21 GMT -5" data-timestamp="1585728141000" class="o-timestamp time">Apr 1, 2020 3:02:21 GMT -5</abbr> matt10 said: You haven’t provided any evidence. Telling us what you believe is not proving evidence. When it comes to facts, beliefs are irrelevant although I am aware that believers here regularly confuse the two and wrongly conclude that if they believe something then that equates to it being true. Nor have you answered question No.3. Not providing evidence and not answering questions appear to be the hallmarks of the believer here. This is because there is no evidence for many of the claims believers make and therefore questions must be avoided as their claims do not stand up to scrutiny. I think therefore that your views on the virus being “as a result of sin” must be placed in the large box labelled “Things I have made up”. Believers are always making things up in an attempt to make it appear that their religious beliefs have a basis in reality. I wrote a long post recently about “convenient attribution” professing.proboards.com/post/896834 explaining how believers consistently falsely attribute things (which have more plausible alternative explanations) to God in order to provide “evidence” that their God really does exist. You are doing something similar here by attributing a cause to a virus that fits with your religious beliefs but for which you have no evidence. I think at this point it is worth pointing out that your claim that “Corona is guessed to have came from consuming an under-cooked bat” is also false and 30 seconds on google would have told you that had you been interested in evidence. Theories about the origin of the virus are not guesses at all but are a result of scientific study. You can read more about the possible origins of the virus here: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.htm. Making stuff up the very anthesis of evidence and is inevitably a sign of weakness in the argument. It is no surprise therefore that believers are reduced to making stuff up so frequently here. The bible itself is filled with made up stuff. I guess that when your God and your religion are both made up they need to be supported by other made up stuff in order to appear plausible. I recall that the 2x2 church made stuff up about originating on the shores of Galilee. Matt10 I often preference my comments with "I believe" because my evidence is biblical. You seem to always request evidence of something that's received by faith? Proof eliminates the necessity of faith. I did respond to #3, in that I believe all disease and sickness is derived because of sin, it didn't exist before the fall. Its not made up, its biblical, whether someone wants to accept it or not is up to them.
Believers don't falsely attribute things to God that science can't explain, God is our reality through faith. We believe the recorded evidence that others witnessed, while you don't.
I reviewed that article from your link, it just says the virus had a natural origin and wasn't genetically engineered. And also; "But the scientists found that the SARS-CoV-2 backbone differed substantially from those of already known coronaviruses and mostly resembled related viruses found in bats and pangolins"
Answer me this, how did humans contract HIV AIDS?
Dan, Here is your answer to your question: "Answer me this, how did humans contract HIV AIDS? "
Bushmeat practice
According to the natural transfer theory ( also called "hunter theory" or "bushmeat theory"), in the "simplest and most plausible explanation for the cross-species transmission" of SIV or HIV (post mutation), the virus was transmitted from an ape or monkey to a human w hen a hunter or bushmeat vendor/handler was bitten or cut while hunting or butchering the animal. The resulting exposure to blood or other bodily fluids of the animal can result in SIV infection. Prior to WWII, some Sub-Saharan Africans were forced out of the rural areas because of the European demand for resources.[citation needed] Since rural Africans were not keen to pursue agricultural practices in the jungle, they turned to non-domesticated animals as their primary source of meat. This over-exposure to bushmeat and malpractice of butchery increased blood-to-blood contact, which then increased the probability of transmission. A recent serological survey showed that human infections by SIV are not rare in Central Africa: the percentage of people showing seroreactivity to antigens—evidence of current or past SIV infection—was 2.3% among the general population of Cameroon, 7.8% in villages where bushmeat is hunted or used, and 17.1% in the most exposed people of these villages How the SIV virus would have transformed into HIV after infection of the hunter or bushmeat handler from the ape/monkey is still a matter of debate, although natural selection would favour any viruses capable of adjusting so that they could infect and reproduce in the T cells of a human host. from wiki.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2020 8:22:59 GMT -5
You haven’t provided any evidence. Telling us what you believe is not proving evidence. When it comes to facts, beliefs are irrelevant although I am aware that believers here regularly confuse the two and wrongly conclude that if they believe something then that equates to it being true. Nor have you answered question No.3. Not providing evidence and not answering questions appear to be the hallmarks of the believer here. This is because there is no evidence for many of the claims believers make and therefore questions must be avoided as their claims do not stand up to scrutiny. I think therefore that your views on the virus being “as a result of sin” must be placed in the large box labelled “Things I have made up”. Believers are always making things up in an attempt to make it appear that their religious beliefs have a basis in reality. I wrote a long post recently about “convenient attribution” professing.proboards.com/post/896834 explaining how believers consistently falsely attribute things (which have more plausible alternative explanations) to God in order to provide “evidence” that their God really does exist. You are doing something similar here by attributing a cause to a virus that fits with your religious beliefs but for which you have no evidence. I think at this point it is worth pointing out that your claim that “Corona is guessed to have came from consuming an under-cooked bat” is also false and 30 seconds on google would have told you that had you been interested in evidence. Theories about the origin of the virus are not guesses at all but are a result of scientific study. You can read more about the possible origins of the virus here: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.htm. Making stuff up the very anthesis of evidence and is inevitably a sign of weakness in the argument. It is no surprise therefore that believers are reduced to making stuff up so frequently here. The bible itself is filled with made up stuff. I guess that when your God and your religion are both made up they need to be supported by other made up stuff in order to appear plausible. I recall that the 2x2 church made stuff up about originating on the shores of Galilee. Matt10
Oh my, my, my! It's amazing how the aural defficiency in some elderly patrons from the Emerald Isle led to this misunderstanding. What was originally preached was....'this goes all the way back to the shores of Galway!' Bad hearing mutated this statement into 'this goes all the way back to the shores of Galilee.' What a fuss that has caused ever since. Like a runaway train, no one knew how to stop it. As long as it had tracks ahead, it would just roll on. The west coast of Ireland is a long way, away from the Middle East, but despite this, the misunderstanding became accepted truth and has stood the test of time. Grats....are you listening? Oh, by the way....yes or no? I see you are still attempting to deflect responsibility from your countrymen for inventing 2x2ism by now trying to suggest it started in Galway. It won’t work. Every sensible person knows it was started by a Scotsman who got the idea from an unnamed sister in Switzerland who heard it from Princess Victoria who was German. Lockdown or no lockdown the facts don’t change. Ireland had virtually nothing to do with it other than providing a ripe crop of wiling recruits (and I have the evidence to support this) whose ancestry can be traced to your island rather than mine and who came over here without being invited. Matt10
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Post by mountain on Apr 1, 2020 10:15:42 GMT -5
Oh my, my, my! It's amazing how the aural defficiency in some elderly patrons from the Emerald Isle led to this misunderstanding. What was originally preached was....'this goes all the way back to the shores of Galway!' Bad hearing mutated this statement into 'this goes all the way back to the shores of Galilee.' What a fuss that has caused ever since. Like a runaway train, no one knew how to stop it. As long as it had tracks ahead, it would just roll on. The west coast of Ireland is a long way, away from the Middle East, but despite this, the misunderstanding became accepted truth and has stood the test of time. Grats....are you listening? Oh, by the way....yes or no? I see you are still attempting to deflect responsibility from your countrymen for inventing 2x2ism by now trying to suggest it started in Galway. It won’t work. Every sensible person knows it was started by a Scotsman who got the idea from an unnamed sister in Switzerland who heard it from Princess Victoria who was German. Lockdown or no lockdown the facts don’t change. Ireland had virtually nothing to do with it other than providing a ripe crop of wiling recruits (and I have the evidence to support this) whose ancestry can be traced to your island rather than mine and who came over here without being invited. Matt10 Matt10, as you know, the original Scots go all the way back to Ireland. A bit like Great Britain bundling off its convicts to the colonies a few centuries ago. Now I have heard your 'theory' about the true beginnings before....oft times I am afraid, but it is a poor attempt at supplanting the truth with falsehood. It matters not one whit that a Scotsman and an Irishman got together and put their idea into practice, because in this context responsibility is equally divided between the races. What does matter, is not 'who' but 'where.' It is the geography that counts, hence the Galilee claims. The battle rages. Embarrassed Irishmen say it began on the shores of Galloway (south-west Scotland), whilst every true enlightened Scot, either currently professing or formerly, knows that it began on the shores of Galway in West of Ireland. It seems the impasse led to the Galilee agreement?
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2020 11:18:00 GMT -5
The death rattle doesn't usually last for days in my experience. I imagine there are instances where it does but my experience has been within about 12 hours of actual death. This virus is fairly quick for some and others hang in there for quite awhile. John Prime who is on a ventilator at the moment is an example of someone that's been on for about 4 days. Maybe he will make it, who knows. A few times I have seen the death rattle last for days. It always astonished me when I would come back on shift and the person was still dying with that death rattle. It's not the norm, though. I also watched a lady dying from cancer in the hospital and wasn't given enough morphine for pain management. My fellow nurses were afraid if they gave her too much it would kill her. She suffered so much. I always gave whatever I could within the doctors order that kept her comfortable but that doesn't always happen. Less likely to die painfully in a hospice type setting. I don't understand that practice where they are afraid of making the patient comfortable while dying. I am glad you helped as much as you could.
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2020 11:29:02 GMT -5
So it says and makes good fiction. Well, I think a pandemic is an evil thing, and since we're all sinners, I put it in the nonfiction category. Flawless logic cannot be challenged, only denied.
Me thinks you Atheist are running out of talking points. Maybe you could pretend your Christians and allow me to challenge your mythological belief?
Speak for yourself. I am not a sinner. I am a human that at times makes a wrong choice, makes mistakes, and cares about it when I do. Only Christians can be sinners because only they believe in the Christian God, the Christian heaven, the Christian hell and the Christian dogma. The rest of us are just normal humans living life.
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Post by nathan on Apr 1, 2020 11:41:50 GMT -5
Well, I think a pandemic is an evil thing, and since we're all sinners, I put it in the nonfiction category. Flawless logic cannot be challenged, only denied.
Me thinks you Atheist are running out of talking points. Maybe you could pretend your Christians and allow me to challenge your mythological belief?
Speak for yourself. I am not a sinner. I am a human that at times makes a wrong choice, makes mistakes, and cares about it when I do. Only Christians can be sinners because only they believe in the Christian God, the Christian heaven, the Christian hell and the Christian dogma. The rest of us are just normal humans living life. Romans 3:23 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 3:20-25 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 4: 3-8 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as king David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
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Post by slowtosee on Apr 1, 2020 11:52:54 GMT -5
A few times I have seen the death rattle last for days. It always astonished me when I would come back on shift and the person was still dying with that death rattle. It's not the norm, though. I also watched a lady dying from cancer in the hospital and wasn't given enough morphine for pain management. My fellow nurses were afraid if they gave her too much it would kill her. She suffered so much. I always gave whatever I could within the doctors order that kept her comfortable but that doesn't always happen. Less likely to die painfully in a hospice type setting. I don't understand that practice where they are afraid of making the patient comfortable while dying. I am glad you helped as much as you could. Was glad to see johns wife , who also had the virus , tweet that he is probably gonna make it . Two bouts with cancer plus Covid -19 - enough suffering already . Appreciate him and his wisdom in song , etc. m.youtube.com/watch?v=2xhmPectY9Um.youtube.com/watch?v=W22vyBpnKiI “John Prine, the esteemed Americana singer-songwriter who has been hospitalized in critical condition since Thursday with COVID-19, is now stable, his wife said Monday on social media. “I have recovered from Covid-19,” Fiona Whelan Prine tweeted. “We are humbled by the outpouring of love for me and John and our precious family. He is stabile. Please continue to send your amazing Love and prayers. Sing his songs. Stay home and wash hands. John loves you. I love you.”
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2020 12:15:13 GMT -5
Speak for yourself. I am not a sinner. I am a human that at times makes a wrong choice, makes mistakes, and cares about it when I do. Only Christians can be sinners because only they believe in the Christian God, the Christian heaven, the Christian hell and the Christian dogma. The rest of us are just normal humans living life. Romans 3:23 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 3:20-25 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 4: 3-8 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as king David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
I don't care what the bible says. You are the sinner because you believe you are and your book says you are. I am not because I don't believe what you believe and I don't believe in your book. You have to be a believer in your particular God to be a sinner.
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Post by nathan on Apr 1, 2020 12:31:47 GMT -5
Romans 3:23 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 3:20-25 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 4: 3-8 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as king David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
I don't care what the bible says. You are the sinner because you believe you are and your book says you are. I am not because I don't believe what you believe and I don't believe in your book. You have to be a believer in your particular God to be a sinner. We know you atheists don't care or believe in these things but I want to encourage the believers on here to KEEP TRUE to their Faith and promises of God and Christ. These are TRUE SAYING of Jesus Christ our Lord God and Savior. We are going to much better home! and leaving his hell hole place we are living now... John 3:14-18 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up (On Calvary's TREE): That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2020 12:42:15 GMT -5
I don't care what the bible says. You are the sinner because you believe you are and your book says you are. I am not because I don't believe what you believe and I don't believe in your book. You have to be a believer in your particular God to be a sinner. We know you atheists don't care or believe in these things but I want to encourage the believers on here to KEEP TRUE to their Faith and promises of God and Christ. These are TRUE SAYING of Jesus Christ our Lord God and Savior. We are going to much better home! and leaving his hell hole place we are living now... John 3:14-18 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up (On Calvary's TREE): That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Then why are you responding to my post if you know I don't believe? Why aren't you making a new post to all the believers on here?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 1, 2020 12:46:53 GMT -5
I don't care what the bible says. You are the sinner because you believe you are and your book says you are. I am not because I don't believe what you believe and I don't believe in your book. You have to be a believer in your particular God to be a sinner. We know you atheists don't care or believe in these things but I want to encourage the believers on here to KEEP TRUE to their Faith and promises of God and Christ. These are TRUE SAYING of Jesus Christ our Lord God and Savior. We are going to much better home! and leaving his hell hole place we are living now... John 3:14-18 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up (On Calvary's TREE): That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." From Wiki.. .In the biblical Books of Kings (2 Kings 18:4; written c. 550 BCE), the Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחשתן Nəḥuštān [nə.ħuʃ.taːn]) is the derogatory name given to the bronze serpent on a pole first described in the Book of Numbers which God told Moses to erect so that the Israelites who saw it would be protected from dying from the bites of the "fiery serpents", which God had sent to punish them for speaking against him and Moses (Numbers 21:4–9). In Kings, King Hezekiah institutes an iconoclastic reform that requires the destruction of "the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan". The term means "a brazen thing, a mere piece of brass".[1] Now Nathan, can you tell me how a bronze snake on a pole can protect people from dying of snake bites? This is a perfect example of biblical mumbo jumbo.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 1, 2020 12:52:59 GMT -5
From Wiki.. Serpent image
In 1508 Michelangelo's image of the Israelites deliverance from the plague of serpents by the creation of the bronze serpent on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Snake cults had been well established in Canaan in the Bronze Age: archaeologists have uncovered serpent cult objects in Bronze Age strata at several pre-Israelite cities in Canaan: two at Megiddo,[4] one at Gezer,[5] one in the Kodesh Hakodashim (Holy of Holies) of the Area H temple at Hazor,[6] and two at Shechem.[7]
According to Lowell K. Handy, the Nehushtan may have been the symbol of a minor god of snakebite-cure within the Temple.[8]
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Post by nathan on Apr 1, 2020 13:03:37 GMT -5
We know you atheists don't care or believe in these things but I want to encourage the believers on here to KEEP TRUE to their Faith and promises of God and Christ. These are TRUE SAYING of Jesus Christ our Lord God and Savior. We are going to much better home! and leaving his hell hole place we are living now... John 3:14-18 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up (On Calvary's TREE): That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Then why are you responding to my post if you know I don't believe? Why aren't you making a new post to all the believers on here? My post is NOT only to you but to everyone... believers and unbelievers alike. This TMB board is for all.
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Post by nathan on Apr 1, 2020 13:09:52 GMT -5
We know you atheists don't care or believe in these things but I want to encourage the believers on here to KEEP TRUE to their Faith and promises of God and Christ. These are TRUE SAYING of Jesus Christ our Lord God and Savior. We are going to much better home! and leaving his hell hole place we are living now... John 3:14-18 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up (On Calvary's TREE): That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." From Wiki.. .In the biblical Books of Kings (2 Kings 18:4; written c. 550 BCE), the Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחשתן Nəḥuštān [nə.ħuʃ.taːn]) is the derogatory name given to the bronze serpent on a pole first described in the Book of Numbers which God told Moses to erect so that the Israelites who saw it would be protected from dying from the bites of the "fiery serpents", which God had sent to punish them for speaking against him and Moses (Numbers 21:4–9). In Kings, King Hezekiah institutes an iconoclastic reform that requires the destruction of "the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan". The term means "a brazen thing, a mere piece of brass".[1] Now Nathan, can you tell me how a bronze snake on a pole can protect people from dying of snake bites? This is a perfect example of biblical mumbo jumbo.
Why does a serpent represent what Jesus did on the cross?
This episode is related in the book of Numbers. The Israelites are traveling through the wilderness and they start complaining about the very manna that God has been providing miraculously to feed them in the desert. (They say, “We detest this miserable food!”) As a punishment for their ingratitude, God sends poisonous snakes among them and many of the Israelites start dying from snake bites. So they come to Moses and admit, “We sinned when we spoke against the Lord and against you.” They ask him to “pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us.” God forgives the people and tells Moses to make a bronze snake and put it up on a pole.” God promises, “Anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.”In other words, an admission of sin and a response of hopeful faith, looking to the means God provided for deliverance, was how the Israelites could be rescued from physical death in this instance. Jesus is telling Nicodemus that the same thing will be true, on a much grander scale in the spiritual realm, when he is “lifted up” onto the cross. Anyone who is sincerely sorry for the way they’ve disobeyed and offended God, and who looks in hopeful faith to Jesus’ death on the cross for their sake, will be rescued spiritually and given the chance to live anew. This is what it means to be “born again.”goodquestionblog.com/2014/01/27/why-does-a-serpent-represent-what-jesus-did-on-the-cross/
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2020 13:11:26 GMT -5
If you believe in the concept of sickness being the result of sin, then the opposite must also be true, and that you believe in the prosperity Gospel like Nathan does. (his Landlord rebated his rent, not because he had a mind of his own, or a nice nature, but because God told him to, because God was looking after his own). This is Joel Osteen stuff, just without the steroids! And how do you explain the deaths from the Ecuadorian convention ground? The common cold was once a killer, and it wiped many of our indigenous people in the 1800's. Who sinned? I believe that these were explanations provided in the absence of a scientific explanation. For example, Epilepsy was "demons", but now we know what causes it, and we can regulate it. Yay! Another voice of sanity!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2020 13:16:59 GMT -5
We know you atheists don't care or believe in these things but I want to encourage the believers on here to KEEP TRUE to their Faith and promises of God and Christ. These are TRUE SAYING of Jesus Christ our Lord God and Savior. We are going to much better home! and leaving his hell hole place we are living now... John 3:14-18 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up (On Calvary's TREE): That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." From Wiki.. .In the biblical Books of Kings (2 Kings 18:4; written c. 550 BCE), the Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחשתן Nəḥuštān [nə.ħuʃ.taːn]) is the derogatory name given to the bronze serpent on a pole first described in the Book of Numbers which God told Moses to erect so that the Israelites who saw it would be protected from dying from the bites of the "fiery serpents", which God had sent to punish them for speaking against him and Moses (Numbers 21:4–9). In Kings, King Hezekiah institutes an iconoclastic reform that requires the destruction of "the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan". The term means "a brazen thing, a mere piece of brass".[1] Now Nathan, can you tell me how a bronze snake on a pole can protect people from dying of snake bites? This is a perfect example of biblical mumbo jumbo.
The truth of the matter could readily be discovered. When bitten, ask the victim whether they'd like to stare at a bronze snake for a while (God's way) or whether they'd like the antivenom (man's way).
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 1, 2020 13:17:56 GMT -5
From Wiki.. .In the biblical Books of Kings (2 Kings 18:4; written c. 550 BCE), the Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחשתן Nəḥuštān [nə.ħuʃ.taːn]) is the derogatory name given to the bronze serpent on a pole first described in the Book of Numbers which God told Moses to erect so that the Israelites who saw it would be protected from dying from the bites of the "fiery serpents", which God had sent to punish them for speaking against him and Moses (Numbers 21:4–9). In Kings, King Hezekiah institutes an iconoclastic reform that requires the destruction of "the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan". The term means "a brazen thing, a mere piece of brass".[1] Now Nathan, can you tell me how a bronze snake on a pole can protect people from dying of snake bites? This is a perfect example of biblical mumbo jumbo.
Why does a serpent represent what Jesus did on the cross?
This episode is related in the book of Numbers. The Israelites are traveling through the wilderness and they start complaining about the very manna that God has been providing miraculously to feed them in the desert. (They say, “We detest this miserable food!”) As a punishment for their ingratitude, God sends poisonous snakes among them and many of the Israelites start dying from snake bites. So they come to Moses and admit, “We sinned when we spoke against the Lord and against you.” They ask him to “pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us.” God forgives the people and tells Moses to make a bronze snake and put it up on a pole.” God promises, “Anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.”In other words, an admission of sin and a response of hopeful faith, looking to the means God provided for deliverance, was how the Israelites could be rescued from physical death in this instance. Jesus is telling Nicodemus that the same thing will be true, on a much grander scale in the spiritual realm, when he is “lifted up” onto the cross. Anyone who is sincerely sorry for the way they’ve disobeyed and offended God, and who looks in hopeful faith to Jesus’ death on the cross for their sake, will be rescued spiritually and given the chance to live anew. This is what it means to be “born again.”goodquestionblog.com/2014/01/27/why-does-a-serpent-represent-what-jesus-did-on-the-cross/ When your jesus quoted Numbers and the myth of the brass or bronze snake on the pole he showed he was completely batty. Snakes on poles cannot save people from snake bite. Never have done and never will. The poor chap was obviously deluded. You do seem to follow a lot of deluded people. Why is that?
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