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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2020 13:55:51 GMT -5
You know how predictable they are. Everything that man does gets responded to as 'God is great'! My relatives do it all the time. I wish for once they would give credit to where it belongs. With people that are exhausted trying to find a vaccine that will save millions. Agree and can relate with the frustration. , when hearing that phrase at the most inappropriate situations , and contexts , but realize oftentimes it’s just said as empty words or appearance of “godliness “ or whatever . If you drill down , even a little , most anybody really doesn’t have THE “perfect” answer , so we just “ say” stuff . Crazy , but everybody seems to do it to some degree ? News anchor , last night after announcing horrible story “ we are with you “ etc. No , you’re not , you just said that . You can’t and won’t be . I guarantee you I do it , and likely don’t recognize it . Virtue signalling is somehow in our human physche? Of course , there are ALSO many scientists and health care people working on this disease , that are also believers . I know some that would talk like that , but are , at the same time , ToTALLY committed and doing all they can with the strength and talents they have to help . Criticism of them , with their particular beliefs or unbeliefs , would probably come from sources who don’t know them personally and are prejudiced towards a certain “group “ that they happen to be a part of . So it is . Alvin Do you really believe that when a Christian says Thank God when it was clearly another human that accomplished it or helped them that they are 'just saying it' and not really believing it? From what Nathan has just posted and Wally too, they do believe that all things good should be credited to God. When Nathan's landlord very nicely let them not pay rent he thanked God for making the landlord do the right thing. It's that kind of stuff that I find so frustrating and sad even. We negate the good that others do when we insist it's god that did it. It's baffling to me that my relatives are saying that God is great and sovereign and he has the world in his hands for this pandemic and not even considering that if God is so great and actually cared wouldn't he have not allowed it to happen in the first place. But then we are told that it wasn't God that started the pandemic it is Satan's world and he is to blame and we are too because we are all sinners and ..... The justifications for how great this God is just go on and on and so does the negating of all the good that humans do for each other. Our front line hospital staff are working endless hours, putting themselves on the line to save as many as they can and are also contracting the virus and dying because of wanting to be a help to others. But still I'm hearing about how great God is for saving those who recover. It very depressing and frustrating to see how people give no credit to those who are helping and in turn giving it all to God.
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Post by nathan on Apr 1, 2020 14:07:17 GMT -5
Agree and can relate with the frustration. , when hearing that phrase at the most inappropriate situations , and contexts , but realize oftentimes it’s just said as empty words or appearance of “godliness “ or whatever . If you drill down , even a little , most anybody really doesn’t have THE “perfect” answer , so we just “ say” stuff . Crazy , but everybody seems to do it to some degree ? News anchor , last night after announcing horrible story “ we are with you “ etc. No , you’re not , you just said that . You can’t and won’t be . I guarantee you I do it , and likely don’t recognize it . Virtue signalling is somehow in our human physche? Of course , there are ALSO many scientists and health care people working on this disease , that are also believers . I know some that would talk like that , but are , at the same time , ToTALLY committed and doing all they can with the strength and talents they have to help . Criticism of them , with their particular beliefs or unbeliefs , would probably come from sources who don’t know them personally and are prejudiced towards a certain “group “ that they happen to be a part of . So it is . Alvin Do you really believe that when a Christian says Thank God when it was clearly another human that accomplished it or helped them that they are 'just saying it' and not really believing it? From what Nathan has just posted and Wally too, they do believe that all things good should be credited to God. When Nathan's landlord very nicely let them not pay rent he thanked God for making the landlord do the right thing. It's that kind of stuff that I find so frustrating and sad even. We negate the good that others do when we insist it's god that did it. It's baffling to me that my relatives are saying that God is great and sovereign and he has the world in his hands for this pandemic and not even considering that if God is so great and actually cared wouldn't he have not allowed it to happen in the first place. But then we are told that it wasn't God that started the pandemic it is Satan's world and he is to blame and we are too because we are all sinners and ..... The justifications for how great this God is just go on and on and so does the negating of all the good that humans do for each other. Our front line hospital staff are working endless hours, putting themselves on the line to save as many as they can and are also contracting the virus and dying because of wanting to be a help to others. But still I'm hearing about how great God is for saving those who recover. It very depressing and frustrating to see how people give no credit to those who are helping and in turn giving it all to God. READ Job 42:12-17 So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she donkeys. He had also seven sons and three daughters. And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch. And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren. After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations. So Job died, being old and full of days. James 1:17 : "Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow."
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Post by nathan on Apr 1, 2020 14:08:01 GMT -5
Nathan must have been nurtured and blessed like I was as we came into this world. As we became aware of death and then of death dealing behavior that seemed sort of normal we began to feel like fish out of water. We want to go HOME! Amen, bro. I was born as a premature baby, and almost died if it wasn't for my great grandmother who took me under her loving care, I would NOT have made it without her love and compassionate. I was born in a war torn country Vietnam, heard and saw death before my eyes so, death made a GREAT impact my growing up years. I began to wonder What is the purpose of life, why am I here on this earth, Where my soul goes after I died, Is there heaven and where it is and How do I get there?
Both of us are diabetics, We can go HOME! at any time, my friend. It's good to time to go HOME! This earth is a hell hole, now. This is Satan's kingdom and let him have his glory for short time when Jesus Returns as King of kings, to set up His eternal kingdom he will make a BETTER place.
Jesus said John 14:1-4 14 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know."
Jesus Christ gave us a glimpse of our New earth and heaven home 2000 yrs ago, in Rev. 21:1-7; and chapter 22.
And I/John saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I/Christ will be his God, and he shall be my son.
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2020 14:08:37 GMT -5
Do you really believe that when a Christian says Thank God when it was clearly another human that accomplished it or helped them that they are 'just saying it' and not really believing it? From what Nathan has just posted and Wally too, they do believe that all things good should be credited to God. When Nathan's landlord very nicely let them not pay rent he thanked God for making the landlord do the right thing. It's that kind of stuff that I find so frustrating and sad even. We negate the good that others do when we insist it's god that did it. It's baffling to me that my relatives are saying that God is great and sovereign and he has the world in his hands for this pandemic and not even considering that if God is so great and actually cared wouldn't he have not allowed it to happen in the first place. But then we are told that it wasn't God that started the pandemic it is Satan's world and he is to blame and we are too because we are all sinners and ..... The justifications for how great this God is just go on and on and so does the negating of all the good that humans do for each other. Our front line hospital staff are working endless hours, putting themselves on the line to save as many as they can and are also contracting the virus and dying because of wanting to be a help to others. But still I'm hearing about how great God is for saving those who recover. It very depressing and frustrating to see how people give no credit to those who are helping and in turn giving it all to God. READ Job 42:12-17 So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she donkeys. He had also seven sons and three daughters. And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch. And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren. After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations. So Job died, being old and full of days. James 1:17 : "Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow."
Yup, keep on negating the good humans do for each other. I would expect nothing else.
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Post by nathan on Apr 1, 2020 14:17:51 GMT -5
READ Job 42:12-17 So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she donkeys. He had also seven sons and three daughters. And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch. And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren. After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations. So Job died, being old and full of days. James 1:17 : "Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow."
Yup, keep on negating the good humans do for each other. I would expect nothing else. I can write a book my 60 years life of the goodness I have received from non-believers and believers alike. Yes, there are MANY non-believers goodness, cares for their fellow human beings out there. We just heard on the news there are 4 restaurants come together to feed the ER staff of doctors and nurses in Portland area and others restaurants have done the same now.
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2020 14:28:44 GMT -5
Yup, keep on negating the good humans do for each other. I would expect nothing else. I can write a book my 60 years life of the goodness I have received from non-believers and believers alike. Yes, there are MANY non-believers goodness, cares for their fellow human beings out there. We just heard on the news there are 4 restaurants come together to feed the ER staff of doctors and nurses in Portland area and others restaurants have done the same now.
Good, they are doing a great service. But do you give them the credit for being good, responsible people or are you saying that god told them to do this and it's ultimately god that is great not them? I ask because it was you that negated the good deed your landlord did for you by not asking for rent and giving the credit to god by saying God moved his heart to not make you pay rent?
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Post by slowtosee on Apr 1, 2020 14:42:15 GMT -5
Agree and can relate with the frustration. , when hearing that phrase at the most inappropriate situations , and contexts , but realize oftentimes it’s just said as empty words or appearance of “godliness “ or whatever . If you drill down , even a little , most anybody really doesn’t have THE “perfect” answer , so we just “ say” stuff . Crazy , but everybody seems to do it to some degree ? News anchor , last night after announcing horrible story “ we are with you “ etc. No , you’re not , you just said that . You can’t and won’t be . I guarantee you I do it , and likely don’t recognize it . Virtue signalling is somehow in our human physche? Of course , there are ALSO many scientists and health care people working on this disease , that are also believers . I know some that would talk like that , but are , at the same time , ToTALLY committed and doing all they can with the strength and talents they have to help . Criticism of them , with their particular beliefs or unbeliefs , would probably come from sources who don’t know them personally and are prejudiced towards a certain “group “ that they happen to be a part of . So it is . Alvin Do you really believe that when a Christian says Thank God when it was clearly another human that accomplished it or helped them that they are 'just saying it' and not really believing it? From what Nathan has just posted and Wally too, they do believe that all things good should be credited to God. When Nathan's landlord very nicely let them not pay rent he thanked God for making the landlord do the right thing. It's that kind of stuff that I find so frustrating and sad even. We negate the good that others do when we insist it's god that did it. It's baffling to me that my relatives are saying that God is great and sovereign and he has the world in his hands for this pandemic and not even considering that if God is so great and actually cared wouldn't he have not allowed it to happen in the first place. But then we are told that it wasn't God that started the pandemic it is Satan's world and he is to blame and we are too because we are all sinners and ..... The justifications for how great this God is just go on and on and so does the negating of all the good that humans do for each other. Our front line hospital staff are working endless hours, putting themselves on the line to save as many as they can and are also contracting the virus and dying because of wanting to be a help to others. But still I'm hearing about how great God is for saving those who recover. It very depressing and frustrating to see how people give no credit to those who are helping and in turn giving it all to God. I get that . It is frustrating . It is true . I also don’t understand many of the nice “Sunday school” answers for hard questions , so often just stand “speechless “ . Know a doctor , that saved many lives , having to endure many times remarks like that , gave god the credit , when he had skillfully and with genius , done his job . —-not all his crass remarks were understood or appreciated lol In spite of , or maybe even Because of , all the “ unanswerable “ questions and “ wrong” answers , we have as humans , it points me , personally, to a “higher power “ (now , that’s another “stupid “ answer) Absolutely , thankful for scientists and health care people of All beliefs and unbeliefs - God or no God . Alvin On a lighter note - true story though - Old school doc in our town had a pregnant patient who INSISTED she had not been , and never was , “with a man “. After Doc Boone delivered the baby , the nurses noticed him deliberately staring out the window . Of course , they asked him what on earth he was doing . “Well” , he said , “ the last time this happened , there was a star in the east “
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Post by nathan on Apr 1, 2020 15:06:50 GMT -5
I can write a book my 60 years life of the goodness I have received from non-believers and believers alike. Yes, there are MANY non-believers goodness, cares for their fellow human beings out there. We just heard on the news there are 4 restaurants come together to feed the ER staff of doctors and nurses in Portland area and others restaurants have done the same now.
Good, they are doing a great service. But do you give them the credit for being good, responsible people or are you saying that god told them to do this and it's ultimately god that is great not them? I ask because it was you that negated the good deed your landlord did for you by not asking for rent and giving the credit to god by saying God moved his heart to not make you pay rent? Yep, I do and often tell them how much I appreciate for their kindness. I give the credit to God first, then tell them I appreciate and thankful for their good deeds to me and others. I have given back the good deeds to help others for 30 years, helping others in anyway I can.
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Post by snow on Apr 2, 2020 12:42:29 GMT -5
Do you really believe that when a Christian says Thank God when it was clearly another human that accomplished it or helped them that they are 'just saying it' and not really believing it? From what Nathan has just posted and Wally too, they do believe that all things good should be credited to God. When Nathan's landlord very nicely let them not pay rent he thanked God for making the landlord do the right thing. It's that kind of stuff that I find so frustrating and sad even. We negate the good that others do when we insist it's god that did it. It's baffling to me that my relatives are saying that God is great and sovereign and he has the world in his hands for this pandemic and not even considering that if God is so great and actually cared wouldn't he have not allowed it to happen in the first place. But then we are told that it wasn't God that started the pandemic it is Satan's world and he is to blame and we are too because we are all sinners and ..... The justifications for how great this God is just go on and on and so does the negating of all the good that humans do for each other. Our front line hospital staff are working endless hours, putting themselves on the line to save as many as they can and are also contracting the virus and dying because of wanting to be a help to others. But still I'm hearing about how great God is for saving those who recover. It very depressing and frustrating to see how people give no credit to those who are helping and in turn giving it all to God. I get that . It is frustrating . It is true . I also don’t understand many of the nice “Sunday school” answers for hard questions , so often just stand “speechless “ . Know a doctor , that saved many lives , having to endure many times remarks like that , gave god the credit , when he had skillfully and with genius , done his job . —-not all his crass remarks were understood or appreciated lol In spite of , or maybe even Because of , all the “ unanswerable “ questions and “ wrong” answers , we have as humans , it points me , personally, to a “higher power “ (now , that’s another “stupid “ answer) Absolutely , thankful for scientists and health care people of All beliefs and unbeliefs - God or no God . Alvin On a lighter note - true story though - Old school doc in our town had a pregnant patient who INSISTED she had not been , and never was , “with a man “. After Doc Boone delivered the baby , the nurses noticed him deliberately staring out the window . Of course , they asked him what on earth he was doing . “Well” , he said , “ the last time this happened , there was a star in the east “ Thank you for your answer. I do understand the wishing for a higher power, someone that knows everything, that can protect, teach and someone to look up to. I do not think there is such a thing of course. But I do understand why it is something many people try and sometimes succeed in believing in. My biggest wonder is why people choose Gods like the Christian God for instance who is petty, commits atrocities, sends those who can't believe in him to hell to be tortured for eternity etc. Why do people seem attracted to these kinds of Gods. Muslims and Allah, Jews and Yahweh? Why not believe in a higher power that is all powerful, all knowing, all loving and all merciful, for real? When I was 12 years old I totally believed this God existed and I also totally believed he didn't deserve my worship. I absolutely could not. As I grew older I searched for truth in other religions and at one point in New age thought. Some were definitely a kinder more loving entity than the Christian God but I still needed proof that such a being existed. I am now an atheist because that kind of proof was never forth coming for me. And, I will forever wish that people wouldn't think of themselves as 'filthy rags', 'sinners', 'worthless except by the grace of god' etc. It's such an unhealthy mindset for me. I just can't wrap my mind around it. And I will forever not understand not giving credit where it is due so I thank you for your acknowledgement that humans are worthy of credit. LOL yes look for the star!!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 2, 2020 12:50:50 GMT -5
I get that . It is frustrating . It is true . I also don’t understand many of the nice “Sunday school” answers for hard questions , so often just stand “speechless “ . Know a doctor , that saved many lives , having to endure many times remarks like that , gave god the credit , when he had skillfully and with genius , done his job . —-not all his crass remarks were understood or appreciated lol In spite of , or maybe even Because of , all the “ unanswerable “ questions and “ wrong” answers , we have as humans , it points me , personally, to a “higher power “ (now , that’s another “stupid “ answer) Absolutely , thankful for scientists and health care people of All beliefs and unbeliefs - God or no God . Alvin On a lighter note - true story though - Old school doc in our town had a pregnant patient who INSISTED she had not been , and never was , “with a man “. After Doc Boone delivered the baby , the nurses noticed him deliberately staring out the window . Of course , they asked him what on earth he was doing . “Well” , he said , “ the last time this happened , there was a star in the east “ Thank you for your answer. I do understand the wishing for a higher power, someone that knows everything, that can protect, teach and someone to look up to. I do not think there is such a thing of course. But I do understand why it is something many people try and sometimes succeed in believing in. My biggest wonder is why people choose Gods like the Christian God for instance who is petty, commits atrocities, sends those who can't believe in him to hell to be tortured for eternity etc. Why do people seem attracted to these kinds of Gods. Muslims and Allah, Jews and Yahweh? Why not believe in a higher power that is all powerful, all knowing, all loving and all merciful, for real? When I was 12 years old I totally believed this God existed and I also totally believed he didn't deserve my worship. I absolutely could not. As I grew older I searched for truth in other religions and at one point in New age thought. Some were definitely a kinder more loving entity than the Christian God but I still needed proof that such a being existed. I am now an atheist because that kind of proof was never forth coming for me. And, I will forever wish that people wouldn't think of themselves as 'filthy rags', 'sinners', 'worthless except by the grace of god' etc. It's such an unhealthy mindset for me. I just can't wrap my mind around it. And I will forever not understand not giving credit where it is due so I thank you for your acknowledgement that humans are worthy of credit. LOL yes look for the star!! Man made god in his image. That is why he is all of the above.
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janj
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Post by janj on Apr 5, 2020 14:38:24 GMT -5
That's interesting. It was the opposite for me. I was very surprised to see how many ex 2x2's just went to another Christian church. I expected them to become an atheist or a different religion at least when they left. Why stay a Christian? It is easy to blame nonbelievers, but always remember we were once believers. We understand you, maybe you don't understand us. 2x2ism does have an affect on people's minds.It tends to make them introverts, timid and have a lack of social skills. They are not up to the cut and thrust of daily life. And it is hard to get away from this, even after 50 years away from it, I try to avoid people. I let my Wife do the talking, her career in Nursing has helped her confidence. It is because of this lack of confidence that 2x2's have left this forum. Not many left now. It is not a takeover by nonbelievers, but rather the 2x2's do not want to engage in debate. After all it is the "Perfect Way", so they are not going to tolerate any criticism. But believe you me WI did get a few things wrong and those of us who understand this, will point it out. WI did say it was an experiment, so the more that contribute, the better the end result. We have to comply with social distancing now because of Covid-19. The social distancing we had imposed on us as 2x2's was ridiculous, compete separation, lock yourself in a bubble. Gratu has a problem with confidence, he deletes his posts. Not normal TMB behaviour. Strange but we can understand. I know this is an old post but I will defend when I think statements are made which are incorrect. One of the things which happened as we get older Redback is we tend to live very much in the past-see things through the eyes of our memory rather than the current state. I say this because in the last couple of years there have been quite a few occasions(mainly weddings)where I have spent time& with various groups of young 2x2s (20-30 yr olds). I was very impressed by them in general. Many were professional (lawyers, doctors accounts,trades people), they were beautifully and fashionably dressed, they were interesting, confident, articulate and made a huge effort to include and speak to those there that were not part of the church. At one wedding my sister (an unbeliever)also noticed and commented on the same thing. To say they are timid is just wrong. Maybe 60 years ago that was the case, but today I would say they can hold their place in life with any other group. The fact that people dont come on here - why would they?? They have way more interesting things to do. As I have said before - we certainly dont get a cross section of any group on this forum so it is dangerous to judge by what we read here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 15:22:17 GMT -5
It is easy to blame nonbelievers, but always remember we were once believers. We understand you, maybe you don't understand us. 2x2ism does have an affect on people's minds.It tends to make them introverts, timid and have a lack of social skills. They are not up to the cut and thrust of daily life. And it is hard to get away from this, even after 50 years away from it, I try to avoid people. I let my Wife do the talking, her career in Nursing has helped her confidence. It is because of this lack of confidence that 2x2's have left this forum. Not many left now. It is not a takeover by nonbelievers, but rather the 2x2's do not want to engage in debate. After all it is the "Perfect Way", so they are not going to tolerate any criticism. But believe you me WI did get a few things wrong and those of us who understand this, will point it out. WI did say it was an experiment, so the more that contribute, the better the end result. We have to comply with social distancing now because of Covid-19. The social distancing we had imposed on us as 2x2's was ridiculous, compete separation, lock yourself in a bubble. Gratu has a problem with confidence, he deletes his posts. Not normal TMB behaviour. Strange but we can understand. I know this is an old post but I will defend when I think statements are made which are incorrect. One of the things which happened as we get older Redback is we tend to live very much in the past-see things through the eyes of our memory rather than the current state. I say this because in the last couple of years there have been quite a few occasions(mainly weddings)where I have spent time& with various groups of young 2x2s (20-30 yr olds). I was very impressed by them in general. Many were professional (lawyers, doctors accounts,trades people), they were beautifully and fashionably dressed, they were interesting, confident, articulate and made a huge effort to include and speak to those there that were not part of the church. At one wedding my sister (an unbeliever)also noticed and commented on the same thing. To say they are timid is just wrong. Maybe 60 years ago that was the case, but today I would say they can hold their place in life with any other group. The fact that people dont come on here - why would they?? They have way more interesting things to do. As I have said before - we certainly dont get a cross section of any group on this forum so it is dangerous to judge by what we read here. Janj I am glad that 2x2's have more freedom now. and are not downtrodden as we were. I know that many now have been able to go to University and obtain a degree. That is the way it should be. We were not afforded that opportunity, higher education was frowned upon. We were encouraged to leave school after grade 8. Sport for us was not on the agenda, it was "Worldly." I know that things have changed during the 80 years of my life, and that is a good thing. I mentioned some time ago one of our Son's employs a number of 2x2's and they have become good friends with his Wife and himself. They came to a Birthday party recently, we enjoyed their company, they joined in the celebration. Smartly dressed, Women with makeup and jewellery. Why not, those restraints placed on us were so draconian, just unnecessary. Those early Workers were real tyrants, insisted that their rules be complied with. We were to keep up a "Wall of Separation" with the World. Just completely wrong thinking, and so good that commonsense has prevailed, and the wall has come down.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 5, 2020 15:51:23 GMT -5
I know this is an old post but I will defend when I think statements are made which are incorrect. One of the things which happened as we get older Redback is we tend to live very much in the past-see things through the eyes of our memory rather than the current state. I say this because in the last couple of years there have been quite a few occasions(mainly weddings)where I have spent time& with various groups of young 2x2s (20-30 yr olds). I was very impressed by them in general. Many were professional (lawyers, doctors accounts,trades people), they were beautifully and fashionably dressed, they were interesting, confident, articulate and made a huge effort to include and speak to those there that were not part of the church. At one wedding my sister (an unbeliever)also noticed and commented on the same thing. To say they are timid is just wrong. Maybe 60 years ago that was the case, but today I would say they can hold their place in life with any other group. The fact that people dont come on here - why would they?? They have way more interesting things to do. As I have said before - we certainly dont get a cross section of any group on this forum so it is dangerous to judge by what we read here. Gratu, I am glad that 2x2's have more freedom now. and are not downtrodden as we were. I know that many now have been able to go to University and obtain a degree. That is the way it should be. We were not afforded that opportunity, higher education was frowned upon. We were encouraged to leave school after grade 8. Sport for us was not on the agenda, it was "Worldly." I know that things have changed during the 80 years of my life, and that is a good thing. I mentioned some time ago one of our Son's employs a number of 2x2's and they have become good friends with his Wife and himself. They came to a Birthday party recently, we enjoyed their company, they joined in the celebration. Smartly dressed, Women with makeup and jewellery. Why not, those restraints placed on us were so draconian, just unnecessary. Those early Workers were real tyrants, insisted that their rules be complied with. We were to keep up a "Wall of Separation" with the World. Just completely wrong thinking, and so good that commonsense has prevailed, and the wall has come down. I would like to believe the wall came down because of enlightened by the workers in high places.
Call me a sour puss, -but I really think that those workers realize that they could no longer control people young or old after the cat was let out of the bag about then & where the TRUTH really stared.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 16:07:10 GMT -5
You are right DMG when that was revealed, it changed dramatically. Once the big porky came out they were smart enough to understand that people could use their own minds to find correct information. They could use the net, and no longer blindly believed what Workers told them.
We were kept ignorant, not encouraged to gain knowledge. That allowed the Workers to have control over our lives. I remember one Worker in particular who was a real old grump. He would look at the bookshelf and say" Too many books". According to him you should only read the Bible. That kept us ignorant.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 5, 2020 17:06:21 GMT -5
Gratu, I am glad that 2x2's have more freedom now. and are not downtrodden as we were. I know that many now have been able to go to University and obtain a degree. That is the way it should be. We were not afforded that opportunity, higher education was frowned upon. We were encouraged to leave school after grade 8. Sport for us was not on the agenda, it was "Worldly." I know that things have changed during the 80 years of my life, and that is a good thing. I mentioned some time ago one of our Son's employs a number of 2x2's and they have become good friends with his Wife and himself. They came to a Birthday party recently, we enjoyed their company, they joined in the celebration. Smartly dressed, Women with makeup and jewellery. Why not, those restraints placed on us were so draconian, just unnecessary. Those early Workers were real tyrants, insisted that their rules be complied with. We were to keep up a "Wall of Separation" with the World. Just completely wrong thinking, and so good that commonsense has prevailed, and the wall has come down. I would like to believe the wall came down because of enlightened by the workers in high places.
Call me a sour puss, -but I really think that those workers realize that they could no longer control people young or old after the cat was let out of the bag about then & where the TRUTH really stared. They had to change because their income depends on their being people in the church.
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