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Post by benar on Mar 28, 2020 22:10:16 GMT -5
Nathan, how can we tell the difference between God helping you through the actions of your landlord and your landlord simply helping you through the good of his own heart? I can write a book about it, so I know when God is helping us or the landlord plays a small part of His plans. This is truly amazing! Like God is parting the Red Sea for us to walk through on dry ground. That is all I want to say for now, too many of you like to nit picking and rip things apart. So, no need for me to share many of these personal experiences.A whole book? It sounds like the method you use is complicated. Can you tell us briefly how you know God was helping you, rather than your landlord?
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Post by benar on Mar 28, 2020 22:24:08 GMT -5
I have heard how some here don't believe anymore because of how the bible conflicts with the laws of science, but that's why they are called miracles! Do you really think that an all-powerful God is bound by the laws of physics? "For with God nothing shall be impossible" (Luke 1:37). Logical Fallacy Alert: This is circular reasoning. I'm not sure if you once believed in Santa Claus, but millions of people certainly did once. Do you think the fact that they no longer believe in Santa Claus is because "they probably weren't totally convinced in the first place."? Logical Fallacy Alert: This is an equivocation fallacy. Faith (believeing something in the absence of evidence) is not comparible with confidence based on evidence, past results and rational thinking. Logical Fallacy Alert: If we are not privy to the "undetectable parallel spiritual dimension", then we have no way of deducing it exists. If you claim to know it does exist, you are claiming to detect the undetectable - a logical impossibility. Logical Fallacy Alert: (AGAIN) This is an equivocation fallacy. Faith (believing something in the absence of evidence) is not comparable with confidence based on evidence, past results and rational thinking. Besides, we do have observable evidence for the Big Bang and evolution. The fact that you do not believe so, does not negate the truth.
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Post by benar on Mar 28, 2020 22:36:34 GMT -5
That's interesting. It was the opposite for me. I was very surprised to see how many ex 2x2's just went to another Christian church. I expected them to become an atheist or a different religion at least when they left. Why stay a Christian? snow The reason many ex-2x2s remain Christians is because we were not unhappy with Christianity or God. We are/were totally OK with Christianity and wanted to continue to use the Bible as our standard and to follow the NT teachings. We felt the workers were not doing this in various areas. We were unhappy with various things: the Workers administration, unnecessary rules and government of the friends, deceit over the founder and beginnings, CSA, divorce and remarriage, etc. Unhappy and disappointed that in a church that claimed they were the church that most closely followed the NT teachings--yet in many areas, this was not true. We were seriously disappointed in the 2x2 leaders and their method they claimed was God's only right way. Maybe this will help you understand... I don't want to put words in snow mouth, but I think what she is referring to is this: At some point, ex 2x2s used certain tools to determine real truth. Using logic, reason and evidence, many deduced that what they were told regarding the beginnings of the movement was not true. These same tools also allowed people to see that the teachings did not closely follow the Bible in many areas. Cognitive dissonance reveals itself, however, when these same people do not use these very same tools to evaluate the entire Christian belief system. The claim of the 2x2 ministry existing since the first century is found unsupported due to the lack of evidence. In just the same way, a truly honest appraisal of the evidence for Jesus's existence finds there is none. (Reports of what early Christians believed in no way validates that belief as true any more than reports of children believing in Santa Claus validates the existence of Santa Claus). The same tools of truth can demonstrate that no Christians closely follow the teachings of Mark 16:18 (KJV) "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
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Post by nathan on Mar 28, 2020 22:45:43 GMT -5
I can write a book about it, so I know when God is helping us or the landlord plays a small part of His plans. This is truly amazing! Like God is parting the Red Sea for us to walk through on dry ground. That is all I want to say for now, too many of you like to nit picking and rip things apart. So, no need for me to share many of these personal experiences. A whole book? It sounds like the method you use is complicated. Can you tell us briefly how you know God was helping you, rather than your landlord? Yes, a book of my life how God has helped me the last 60 years. The property landlord is a Christian I wouldn't be surprised God is moving his heart to help us out during the Corona Virus crisis. There is God and He is REAL, benar.
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Post by benar on Mar 28, 2020 23:26:56 GMT -5
A whole book? It sounds like the method you use is complicated. Can you tell us briefly how you know God was helping you, rather than your landlord? Yes, a book of my life how God has helped me the last 60 years. The property landlord is a Christian I wouldn't be surprised God is moving his heart to help us out during the Corona Virus crisis. There is God and He is REAL, benar.As usual, you haven't answered the question. Please tell me what tells you that your landlord is being moved by God, rather than being a nice human being?
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Post by nathan on Mar 29, 2020 0:07:35 GMT -5
Yes, a book of my life how God has helped me the last 60 years. The property landlord is a Christian I wouldn't be surprised God is moving his heart to help us out during the Corona Virus crisis. There is God and He is REAL, benar. As usual, you haven't answered the question. Please tell me what tells you that your landlord is being moved by God, rather than being a nice human being? He is a Christian and God moves his heart to give us a break during the Corona Virus Crisis.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 0:10:47 GMT -5
Yes, a book of my life how God has helped me the last 60 years. The property landlord is a Christian I wouldn't be surprised God is moving his heart to help us out during the Corona Virus crisis. There is God and He is REAL, benar. As usual, you haven't answered the question. Please tell me what tells you that your landlord is being moved by God, rather than being a nice human being? it would be a case of the glass is half full, half empty...
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Post by nathan on Mar 29, 2020 0:15:56 GMT -5
As usual, you haven't answered the question. Please tell me what tells you that your landlord is being moved by God, rather than being a nice human being? it would be a case of the glass is half full, half empty... Amen, the unbelievers see there is no God; the believers see God is everywhere and in everything. Romans 8:27-28 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 29, 2020 0:16:27 GMT -5
Dan, -Perhaps you really do find it "hard to understand how" how some of us could go from the "Truth to atheism." Perhaps the reason you can't understand is that you haven't listened some of our stories.
I, for one, -did look at many different churches.
After investigating the various different tenets and seeing how their differed, to try to decide which one had any TRUTH within it became a dilemma.
However, -it wasn't just "some disagreements" among them. It eventually came down to whether I could retain a believe that there was suspension of the laws of physics in order to resurrect a dead body.
I am a nurse. I have witnessed more deaths than I can even number. I have seen what happens when life leaves a body.
It simply made no sense to think that the laws of physics would be suspended even just once in order to resurrect a dead body!
Then upon reading about previous non-biblical accounts of resurrections in other religions in the history of mankind, I not only begin to question the accuracy of the narrative in the bible, I also begin to understand the reasons people wanted to believe in such impossible ideas.
Now, -Dan, -you can call what I post "nit-picking" all you like but when you say about us that: "I can only presume that they never had much faith in the first place."
THAT is a long way from mere "nitpicking!" It is typical of the kind of remarks that were often laid on us when we left the 2x2's! I have heard how some here don't believe anymore because of how the bible conflicts with the laws of science, but that's why they are called miracles! Do you really think that an all-powerful God is bound by the laws of physics? "For with God nothing shall be impossible" (Luke 1:37). I understand how anyone can lose faith, its even a struggle for believers at times.
But when someone is easily persuaded that the bible is not true, its not a stretch to conclude that they probably weren't totally convinced in the first place.
I'm also aware that there is a difference in not having faith in any 'church' verses losing faith in God himself. My faith is in Christ, yours probably was too at one time, so it just seems illogical to thrown the baby out with the bath water simply because you became disgruntled with a group of people.
I also understand that many nonbelievers have replaced their once faith in God with faith in science (man). But for me, that's a dead end street and things like evolution require more faith to accept than Genesis 1.
That's obviously not the case for you though, and that's your choice. Its why we're all here, to demonstrate what 'truth' we trust.. God is spirit, He doesn't just function in the physical realm that we are restricted to exist in, there is a undetectable parallel spiritual dimension that we aren't privy to, and I'm convince that no spiritual being dies with their flesh, only the One who created it has the power & authority to destroy it.
Whether you trust evolution & the big bang or God/Christ & the bible, both require faith in the unobservable. The battle is physical vs spiritual, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12).
There's a real war going on, and I don't think its just with COVID-19.
Dan, -you make so many assumptions about why I no longer believe that the bible to be true, -that I hardly know where to begin!
I have underlined some of the assumptions in your post.
When you something like this:
"But when someone is easily persuaded that the bible is not true, its not a stretch to conclude that they probably weren't totally convinced in the first place," --then you are diminishing & demeaning my sincerity! Why do you assume that your sincerity is superior to mine?
When you assume that I was "easily persuaded that the bible is not true," -you have NO idea of the journey we take! You have NO idea of the depth of my belief or how hard the struggle was to leave!
When you talk about leaving because of becoming "disgruntled with a group of people," -again, you have no idea of all the reasons that people come to believe as they do!- You seem to think that we can't honestly & logically look at an idea & make a rational determination of the legitimacy of that idea!
Then you talk about it being a "my choice."
When a person studies the rationality of whether something could or could NOT happen, - there isn't any "choice" about it.
"Faith in science" has nothing to do with "faith" in "man" as you claim.
Science is knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method.
It has nothing to do with "faith"!
Now, I could make a lot of assumptions as to why you, Dan need to continue to believe in a idea that flouts all laws of the laws of physics , -but I am not going to do so.
But I would appreciate it if you would stop treating me as if you know why I have come to believe as I do.
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Post by benar on Mar 29, 2020 1:42:50 GMT -5
As usual, you haven't answered the question. Please tell me what tells you that your landlord is being moved by God, rather than being a nice human being? it would be a case of the glass is half full, half empty... Confirmation bias
Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or strengthens one's prior personal beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. - Wikipedia
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Post by benar on Mar 29, 2020 1:46:07 GMT -5
As usual, you haven't answered the question. Please tell me what tells you that your landlord is being moved by God, rather than being a nice human being? He is a Christian and God moves his heart to give us a break during the Corona Virus Crisis.This is an assertion, Nathan. You have not demonstrated how you know this assertion to be true. How do you know God moves his heart?If I was your landlord and I gave you free rent, how would you know whether it was me alone giving you a break, or it was God using me to give you a break?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 1:55:42 GMT -5
it would be a case of the glass is half full, half empty... Confirmation bias
Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or strengthens one's prior personal beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. - Wikipedia i doubt it...a believer is gonna see what they see and an unbeliever is gonna see or not see what they want...unless of course you think the unbeliever is doing the same as the believer for confirmation bias which then means were back to the glass is half full, half empty....
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Post by Dan on Mar 29, 2020 2:00:42 GMT -5
Logical Fallacy Alert: (AGAIN) This is an equivocation fallacy. Faith (believing something in the absence of evidence) is not comparable with confidence based on evidence, past results and rational thinking. Besides, we do have observable evidence for the Big Bang and evolution. The fact that you do not believe so, does not negate the truth.
What's logical to you is limited to things you can see, hear, and touch. I call it a monkey-see monkey-do perspective. Because something cannot be physically demonstrated, does not automatically equate to it being a fallacy. Hundreds of years ago, flying to the moon would have been deemed a logical fallacy because there was no evidence to suggest it could be true. But its not a fallacy now because you've seen it and the fairy tale has become a reality. Logically, man couldn't fly because men don't have wings and gravity would prevent it, just as Jesus couldn't walk on water because gravity would prevent it. So Christ is only a fallacy until you see him return, then all of what you refer to as circular reasoning will become straight forward facts.
Not all evidence is classified by scientific methodology, as I've pointed out before, prophetic evidence and eyewitness testimony are also forms of evidence. And to many people, its a type of evidence that is as valid as any scientific hypothesis or theory, so the comparison is equivocal. The inability of science to confirm anything of a spiritual nature is not affirmation that nothing spiritual exist, its just validation that science doesn't know because spiritual things cannot be physically observed and verified. However, we do have eyewitness testimony from those who did observe spiritual things, from angels to Christ's ascension into heaven. Its simply received by faith because we didn't see it ourselves.
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Post by nathan on Mar 29, 2020 2:31:30 GMT -5
He is a Christian and God moves his heart to give us a break during the Corona Virus Crisis. This is an assertion, Nathan. You have not demonstrated how you know this assertion to be true. How do you know God moves his heart?If I was your landlord and I gave you free rent, how would you know whether it was me alone giving you a break, or it was God using me to give you a break? I know our family will get 3,600 dollars the next 3 weeks from uncle Sam..... And tons of money from the gov't loans and grant for our business in the next 3 weeks also. Praise the LORD! We were dead on water before the Corona Virus Pandemic. Now, we just rest up so, when they ease up the locked down so, we can go back to work and watch our distances from the customers.
Romans 8:27-28 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
By the way, we get 3 months delay from our mortage loan, cars, and credit cards! Hey, LIFE is God when you put your Faith and Trust in God. This is how many life been for the last 40 yrs AFTER to commit my life to Christ. Help from ABOVE has always come at the right time.... And You/atheists TRY to convince me there is NO God and He isn't REAL, or it's just my own imagination and believing in a MYTH, there is no God in the sky! Believe in God before the Virus gets you then it will be, too late.
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Post by Dan on Mar 29, 2020 2:40:04 GMT -5
I have heard how some here don't believe anymore because of how the bible conflicts with the laws of science, but that's why they are called miracles! Do you really think that an all-powerful God is bound by the laws of physics? "For with God nothing shall be impossible" (Luke 1:37). I understand how anyone can lose faith, its even a struggle for believers at times.
But when someone is easily persuaded that the bible is not true, its not a stretch to conclude that they probably weren't totally convinced in the first place.
I'm also aware that there is a difference in not having faith in any 'church' verses losing faith in God himself. My faith is in Christ, yours probably was too at one time, so it just seems illogical to thrown the baby out with the bath water simply because you became disgruntled with a group of people.
I also understand that many nonbelievers have replaced their once faith in God with faith in science (man). But for me, that's a dead end street and things like evolution require more faith to accept than Genesis 1.
That's obviously not the case for you though, and that's your choice. Its why we're all here, to demonstrate what 'truth' we trust.. God is spirit, He doesn't just function in the physical realm that we are restricted to exist in, there is a undetectable parallel spiritual dimension that we aren't privy to, and I'm convince that no spiritual being dies with their flesh, only the One who created it has the power & authority to destroy it.
Whether you trust evolution & the big bang or God/Christ & the bible, both require faith in the unobservable. The battle is physical vs spiritual, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12).
There's a real war going on, and I don't think its just with COVID-19.
Dan, -you make so many assumptions about why I no longer believe that the bible to be true, -that I hardly know where to begin!
I have underlined some of the assumptions in your post.
When you something like this:
"But when someone is easily persuaded that the bible is not true, its not a stretch to conclude that they probably weren't totally convinced in the first place," --then you are diminishing & demeaning my sincerity! Why do you assume that your sincerity is superior to mine?
When you assume that I was "easily persuaded that the bible is not true," -you have NO idea of the journey we take! You have NO idea of the depth of my belief or how hard the struggle was to leave!
When you talk about leaving because of becoming "disgruntled with a group of people," -again, you have no idea of all the reasons that people come to believe as they do!- You seem to think that we can't honestly & logically look at an idea & make a rational determination of the legitimacy of that idea!
Then you talk about it being a "my choice."
When a person studies the rationality of whether something could or could NOT happen, - there isn't any "choice" about it.
"Faith in science" has nothing to do with "faith" in "man" as you claim.
Science is knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method.
It has nothing to do with "faith"!
Now, I could make a lot of assumptions as to why you, Dan need to continue to believe in a idea that flouts all laws of the laws of physics , -but I am not going to do so.
But I would appreciate it if you would stop treating me as if you know why I have come to believe as I do.
It wasn't my intent to make assumptions about anyone specific, it was just my generalization of why some grew to trust science over Christ.
When someone gets married, they are usually sincere about that conviction, but when they divorce, the sincerity of their previous "I DO" becomes questionable. My comment that a person who once committed to Christ, only to have a change of heart, seemed like a complete about-face. I admit that the reasons for that are various, but replacing God with science is one speculative cause that a few people haven articulated here.
If you once professed Christ, but now denounce him, then yes, its a logical presumption that your initial sincerely wasn't as deeply rooted as those who have kept the faith. That's not a criticism, just an obvious observation.
I too trust scientific facts, but that doesn't relinquish or contradict my trust in God. Science simply observes what is physically possible, but God being a spiritual Being is not bound by physical limitations. So I don't apply to God what science dictates, while you seem to think that an omnipotent Being is restrained by the laws of physics. Perhaps that's the choice we make?
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Post by Pragmatic on Mar 29, 2020 3:13:28 GMT -5
Nathan, you sound like Joel Osteen. Do you believe in the prosperity gospel?
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Post by Grant on Mar 29, 2020 3:44:13 GMT -5
This is an assertion, Nathan. You have not demonstrated how you know this assertion to be true. How do you know God moves his heart?If I was your landlord and I gave you free rent, how would you know whether it was me alone giving you a break, or it was God using me to give you a break? I know our family will get 3,600 dollars the next 3 weeks from uncle Sam..... And tons of money from the gov't loans and grant for our business in the next 3 weeks also. Praise the LORD! We were dead on water before the Corona Virus Pandemic. Now, we just rest up so, when they ease up the locked down so, we can go back to work and watch our distances from the customers.
Romans 8:27-28 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
By the way, we get 3 months delay from our mortage loan, cars, and credit cards! Hey, LIFE is God when you put your Faith and Trust in God. This is how many life been for the last 40 yrs AFTER to commit my life to Christ. Help from ABOVE has always come at the right time.... And You/atheists TRY to convince me there is NO God and He isn't REAL, or it's just my own imagination and believing in a MYTH, there is no God in the sky! Believe in God before the Virus gets you then it will be, too late.
Do you not believe that the rain falls on the just and unjust?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 3:47:13 GMT -5
He is a Christian and God moves his heart to give us a break during the Corona Virus Crisis. This is an assertion, Nathan. You have not demonstrated how you know this assertion to be true. How do you know God moves his heart?If I was your landlord and I gave you free rent, how would you know whether it was me alone giving you a break, or it was God using me to give you a break? This is known as ‘convenient attribution’ where the believer attributes to God things that happen as a result of human intervention, nature or chance for the purposes of portraying God in a positive light or providing evidence for his existence. This is a critical part of believing as without practicing the art of convenient attribution, the existence of a loving, caring God becomes questionable as there is zero credible evidence for his existence. Take for example the coronavirus situation. It is clear from the havoc, pain and suffering which it has created that (a) either there is no God or (b) God doesn’t give a hoot about our pain and suffering. That is the only logical conclusion one can come to. However this doesn’t fit with the beliefs of the believer so the believer has to create a narrative which explains the lack of intervention by their loving, caring God. Hence then, despite the pain and the suffering, and the deaths and the dying, and the struggling for breath with not enough ventilators to go round, the believer latches on desperately to some good or positive thing that has happened and attributes that to God. “Look look, God does exist after all .... I’m self isolating so I can’t leave the house and my neighbour has brought me a loaf of bread. That will have been God working in him. I knew God wouldn’t let me down.” The landlord claim is just another example of convenient attribution. Convenient attribution usually forms part of a dual approach by the believer where the believer backs two horses. For example if someone is very sick and gets better then the believer attributes that to the goodness of God. But if the person gets sick and dies then that is just part of God’s great plan and, as his ways are higher than our ways, we cannot possibly understand this plan (which is just as well as these plans never make any sense to a normal person). When it comes to belief and believers, God simply cannot lose. No matter what the outcome, God has to come out of it well. The believer will always excuse God’s lack of intervention to prevent horrors such as coronavirus, child abuse in the church and Auschwitz but then swiftly and conveniently attribute to God any good or positive thing that happens. He’s like a useless boss who is successful only because he claims credit for other people’s work. If only believers could make up their minds as to whether their God intervenes in the world or not. If only there was real and tangible evidence which supported the existence of a loving, caring God believers would not have to resort to such tactics. If only the Christian God would provide some sign that he isn’t dead then believers would be able to point to it rather than relying on the goodness of their landlords. Matt10
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Post by benar on Mar 29, 2020 3:47:48 GMT -5
This is an assertion, Nathan. You have not demonstrated how you know this assertion to be true. How do you know God moves his heart?If I was your landlord and I gave you free rent, how would you know whether it was me alone giving you a break, or it was God using me to give you a break? I know our family will get 3,600 dollars the next 3 weeks from uncle Sam..... And tons of money from the gov't loans and grant for our business in the next 3 weeks also. Praise the LORD! We were dead on water before the Corona Virus Pandemic. Now, we just rest up so, when they ease up the locked down so, we can go back to work and watch our distances from the customers.
Romans 8:27-28 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
By the way, we get 3 months delay from our mortage loan, cars, and credit cards! Hey, LIFE is God when you put your Faith and Trust in God. This is how many life been for the last 40 yrs AFTER to commit my life to Christ. Help from ABOVE has always come at the right time.... And You/atheists TRY to convince me there is NO God and He isn't REAL, or it's just my own imagination and believing in a MYTH, there is no God in the sky! Believe in God before the Virus gets you then it will be, too late.Nathan, would you like to admit publicly, that you are incapable of answering a direct question with a direct answer? How did you determine that one particular god was responsible for the government giving you $3,600? And while you're at it, if God is responsible for everything, isn't he responsible for the coronavirus?
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Post by benar on Mar 29, 2020 3:54:13 GMT -5
Dan, -you make so many assumptions about why I no longer believe that the bible to be true, -that I hardly know where to begin!
I have underlined some of the assumptions in your post.
When you something like this:
"But when someone is easily persuaded that the bible is not true, its not a stretch to conclude that they probably weren't totally convinced in the first place," --then you are diminishing & demeaning my sincerity! Why do you assume that your sincerity is superior to mine?
When you assume that I was "easily persuaded that the bible is not true," -you have NO idea of the journey we take! You have NO idea of the depth of my belief or how hard the struggle was to leave!
When you talk about leaving because of becoming "disgruntled with a group of people," -again, you have no idea of all the reasons that people come to believe as they do!- You seem to think that we can't honestly & logically look at an idea & make a rational determination of the legitimacy of that idea!
Then you talk about it being a "my choice."
When a person studies the rationality of whether something could or could NOT happen, - there isn't any "choice" about it.
"Faith in science" has nothing to do with "faith" in "man" as you claim.
Science is knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method.
It has nothing to do with "faith"!
Now, I could make a lot of assumptions as to why you, Dan need to continue to believe in a idea that flouts all laws of the laws of physics , -but I am not going to do so.
But I would appreciate it if you would stop treating me as if you know why I have come to believe as I do.
...If you once professed Christ, but now denounce him, then yes, its a logical presumption that your initial sincerely wasn't as deeply rooted as those who have kept the faith. That's not a criticism, just an obvious observation... That's not obvious at all, Dan. Have you ever changed your mind about anything? Suppose you decide it's going to rain today. Turns out, it didn't rain. Will you hold to your belief that it should have rained, lest you display your initial sincerity was lacking?
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Post by benar on Mar 29, 2020 3:58:32 GMT -5
Confirmation bias
Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or strengthens one's prior personal beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. - Wikipedia i doubt it...a believer is gonna see what they see and an unbeliever is gonna see or not see what they want...unless of course you think the unbeliever is doing the same as the believer for confirmation bias which then means were back to the glass is half full, half empty.... Oh, no, it sure is confirmation bias. Attributing an event to one particular entity over another (or a lack of entity) without critically examining the facts is displaying confirmation bias. We must start with the premise that we do not know what caused event X, and see where the evidence takes us. In this case, I am asking Nathan to identify what particular circumstance leads us to believe that a) a god was involved and b) which specific version of a particular god it was. Nathan is incapable of answering such simple questions.
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Post by benar on Mar 29, 2020 4:07:40 GMT -5
Logical Fallacy Alert: (AGAIN) This is an equivocation fallacy. Faith (believing something in the absence of evidence) is not comparable with confidence based on evidence, past results and rational thinking. Besides, we do have observable evidence for the Big Bang and evolution. The fact that you do not believe so, does not negate the truth. What's logical to you is limited to things you can see, hear, and touch. I call it a monkey-see monkey-do perspective. Because something cannot be physically demonstrated, does not automatically equate to it being a fallacy. Hundreds of years ago, flying to the moon would have been deemed a logical fallacy because there was no evidence to suggest it could be true. But its not a fallacy now because you've seen it and the fairy tale has become a reality. Logically, man couldn't fly because men don't have wings and gravity would prevent it, just as Jesus couldn't walk on water because gravity would prevent it. So Christ is only a fallacy until you see him return, then all of what you refer to as circular reasoning will become straight forward facts. I don't think you understand the meaning of logical fallacy. Just as you don't understand the meaning of the word faith. The inability of science to confirm anything of spiritual nature (despite countless efforts to do so) leaves us with the only logical conclusion at present - that there is not sufficient grounds to believe there is anything spiritual. Your logic is akin to "Just because science has not shown fairies exist, doesn't mean everything does not go according to the will of fairies". I don't know how many times I have to repeat this: If one cannot physically observe and verify anything spiritual, then you, who asserts the spiritual, are claiming to detect the undetectable - a logical impossibility!
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Post by nathan on Mar 29, 2020 7:07:21 GMT -5
I know our family will get 3,600 dollars the next 3 weeks from uncle Sam..... And tons of money from the gov't loans and grant for our business in the next 3 weeks also. Praise the LORD! We were dead on water before the Corona Virus Pandemic. Now, we just rest up so, when they ease up the locked down so, we can go back to work and watch our distances from the customers.
Romans 8:27-28 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
By the way, we get 3 months delay from our mortage loan, cars, and credit cards! Hey, LIFE is God when you put your Faith and Trust in God. This is how many life been for the last 40 yrs AFTER to commit my life to Christ. Help from ABOVE has always come at the right time.... And You/atheists TRY to convince me there is NO God and He isn't REAL, or it's just my own imagination and believing in a MYTH, there is no God in the sky! Believe in God before the Virus gets you then it will be, too late.
Do you not believe that the rain falls on the just and unjust? Yes, I do. I believe my tests and trials of Job's life the last 15 years are over. Thanks, God I thought it would NEVER end. I Like what Job said in Job 23:10 "But he knows the way that I take; when he has tested me, I will come forth as gold."
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Post by nathan on Mar 29, 2020 7:41:39 GMT -5
I know our family will get 3,600 dollars the next 3 weeks from uncle Sam..... And tons of money from the gov't loans and grant for our business in the next 3 weeks also. Praise the LORD! We were dead on water before the Corona Virus Pandemic. Now, we just rest up so, when they ease up the locked down so, we can go back to work and watch our distances from the customers.
Romans 8:27-28 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
By the way, we get 3 months delay from our mortage loan, cars, and credit cards! Hey, LIFE is God when you put your Faith and Trust in God. This is how many life been for the last 40 yrs AFTER to commit my life to Christ. Help from ABOVE has always come at the right time.... And You/atheists TRY to convince me there is NO God and He isn't REAL, or it's just my own imagination and believing in a MYTH, there is no God in the sky! Believe in God before the Virus gets you then it will be, too late. Nathan, would you like to admit publicly, that you are incapable of answering a direct question with a direct answer? How did you determine that one particular god was responsible for the government giving you $3,600? And while you're at it, if God is responsible for everything, isn't he responsible for the coronavirus? Without the gov't help grants and loan we are DONE! Dead ducks, DEAD meats. Satan caused Job all kinds of problems, created fire from heaven, might winds, and bandits to kill Job's 10 children and servants and animals. Then Satan sent boils from the top of Job's head to his toes then he said, "Even if God slays me will I trust Him." God did NOT send boils or kill his children or their servants and herds of animals but Satan who did it. People BLAMED it on God. However, at the end of Job's trial and test God blessed him and his wife with 10 children and made them the one of the riches people in the land.
Only in Eternity we will KNOW for sure was it Satan, or Satan's evil children men/Illuminati created these deadly Viruses in the military labs to depopulation, or God but I don't believe God did it.
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Post by nathan on Mar 29, 2020 7:47:13 GMT -5
i doubt it...a believer is gonna see what they see and an unbeliever is gonna see or not see what they want...unless of course you think the unbeliever is doing the same as the believer for confirmation bias which then means were back to the glass is half full, half empty.... Oh, no, it sure is confirmation bias. Attributing an event to one particular entity over another (or a lack of entity) without critically examining the facts is displaying confirmation bias. We must start with the premise that we do not know what caused event X, and see where the evidence takes us. In this case, I am asking Nathan to identify what particular circumstance leads us to believe that a) a god was involved and b) which specific version of a particular god it was. Nathan is incapable of answering such simple questions. You atheists hardly like ours/believers answers because your unbelief minds that you have, there is NO God so can't believe it. You believe what you can SEE with your eyes. Can you see the wind? NOPE, but they exist and they are there because we can see the result of the wind... Wind Turbo spinning.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 7:52:51 GMT -5
I don't know how many times I have to repeat this: If one cannot physically observe and verify anything spiritual, then you, who asserts the spiritual, are claiming to detect the undetectable - a logical impossibility! well you live in your limited material world and we'll live in both the material and spiritual world...your not shaking anyone's faith here....
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Post by Annan on Mar 29, 2020 9:22:43 GMT -5
...atan caused Job all kinds of problems, created fire from heaven, might winds, and bandits to kill Job's 10 children and servants and animals. ...at the end of Job's trial and test God blessed him and his wife with 10 children and made them the one of the riches people in the land. So more children and riches makes up for all the pain Job suffered? Did not Job and his wife mourn their ten dead children? What a terrible thing! More children doesn't make you forget the ones you lost. All the money in the world doesn't make up for that pain. This is one of the most disturbing stories in the bible.
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Post by slowtosee on Mar 29, 2020 10:28:13 GMT -5
I believe that the scientific world view can explain almost anything," he says. "But I just think there is another world view as well." You get a few scientists like Richard Dawkins and Peter Atkins [professor of chemistry at Oxford] who at least talk as though they cannot understand how a scientist could possibly be religious. But I would say that, generally speaking, throughout the scientific community there is considerable acceptance that, OK, although one might not be a religious person oneself, one's fellow scientist can be." Colin Humphreys Professor of materials science Cambridge u www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2003/sep/04/science.research
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