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Post by Get off of TMB on Mar 22, 2020 7:40:32 GMT -5
If the workers haven't "consecrated" the home, you are not supposed to partake of the emblems. Where do they get that idea from? What scripture? Jesus has promised to meet with 2 or 3 who meet in his name. People in the bible had fellowship in various places...deserts, markets, synagogues, by the seaside, etc.. However, some workers are OK with people meeting together to worship as long as the emblems aren't in a home that hasn't been approved of by a worker.
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Post by chuck on Mar 22, 2020 10:31:10 GMT -5
If the workers haven't "consecrated" the home, you are not supposed to partake of the emblems. Where do they get that idea from? What scripture? Jesus has promised to meet with 2 or 3 who meet in his name. People in the bible had fellowship in various places...deserts, markets, synagogues, by the seaside, etc.. However, some workers are OK with people meeting together to worship as long as the emblems aren't in a home that hasn't been approved of by a worker. Power!. Which ironically is "worldly", one of the most favorite things rattled off continuously with pure ignorance.
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Post by nathan on Mar 22, 2020 10:51:13 GMT -5
If the workers haven't "consecrated" the home, you are not supposed to partake of the emblems. Where do they get that idea from? What scripture? Jesus has promised to meet with 2 or 3 who meet in his name. People in the bible had fellowship in various places...deserts, markets, synagogues, by the seaside, etc.. However, some workers are OK with people meeting together to worship as long as the emblems aren't in a home that hasn't been approved of by a worker. Read Acts 14:21-23 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.Here are some of the qualification for church elders/bishops and back up elders.
Paul wrote to Timothy: I Tim 3:1-16 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Paul wrote to Titus 5-9 For this cause left I thee/Titus in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Read III John 9-12 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God. Demetrius hath good report of all men, and of the truth itself: yea, and we also bear record; and ye know that our record is true.~~ Does this sound familiar in Alberta and Vietnam Excommunication. Both sides 2x2s ministry and exes were at faults. They fell into Satan's snares, traps.
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Post by iam on Mar 22, 2020 15:21:12 GMT -5
If the workers haven't "consecrated" the home, you are not supposed to partake of the emblems. Where do they get that idea from? What scripture? Jesus has promised to meet with 2 or 3 who meet in his name. People in the bible had fellowship in various places...deserts, markets, synagogues, by the seaside, etc.. However, some workers are OK with people meeting together to worship as long as the emblems aren't in a home that hasn't been approved of by a worker. Read Acts 14:21-23 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.Here are some of the qualification for church elders/bishops and back up elders.
Paul wrote to Timothy: I Tim 3:1-16 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Paul wrote to Titus 5-9 For this cause left I thee/Titus in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Read III John 9-12 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God. Demetrius hath good report of all men, and of the truth itself: yea, and we also bear record; and ye know that our record is true.~~ Does this sound familiar in Alberta and Vietnam Excommunication. Both sides 2x2s ministry and exes were at faults. They fell into Satan's snares, traps.
The husband of one wife. Back then that meant there was no one BEFORE. There was actually a time that that was clear. Sober? Like as in abstaining from alcohol? Because that's not all it means. And all the other qualifications... no one really qualifies anymore. Not given to filthy lucre...yeah right...but HONESTLY? Who is even honest enough to see themselves as having these problems? Lover of hospitality? Jesus teaches what hospitality should look like. So does Isaiah. I don't see that anymore. Temperate...who isn't striving to make/get as much of this life as we can with the abilities and time that we've got? No wonder there's such monumental spiritual sickness. Lots of talk. Not enough do. It cannot change if the change isn't supported at the top. Who wants change? (Everyone) Who wants TO change? (No one)
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Post by iam on Mar 22, 2020 15:41:36 GMT -5
A worker told a story once of one of the friends in Africa that couldn't get to meetings. So she always had meetings in her home alone with her children. With the emblems. No one told her she could or couldn't do that. She just did. They kept faithful. But not many would be that brave.
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Post by mountain on Mar 22, 2020 15:53:38 GMT -5
A worker told a story once of one of the friends in Africa that couldn't get to meetings. So she always had meetings in her home alone with her children. With the emblems. No one told her she could or couldn't do that. She just did. They kept faithful. But not many would be that brave. It looks like the purpose and place were being fulfilled.
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Post by nathan on Mar 22, 2020 16:03:23 GMT -5
Read Acts 14:21-23 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.Here are some of the qualification for church elders/bishops and back up elders.
Paul wrote to Timothy: I Tim 3:1-16 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Paul wrote to Titus 5-9 For this cause left I thee/Titus in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Read III John 9-12 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God. Demetrius hath good report of all men, and of the truth itself: yea, and we also bear record; and ye know that our record is true.~~ Does this sound familiar in Alberta and Vietnam Excommunication. Both sides 2x2s ministry and exes were at faults. They fell into Satan's snares, traps.
The husband of one wife. Back then that meant there was no one BEFORE. There was actually a time that that was clear. Yes, can't have multiples wives at once and be the church elder. We had church elders who had been married and divorce before they heard the gospel. However, they have only ONE current wife.
Sober? Like as in abstaining from alcohol? Because that's not all it means. NOT over access drinking of Alcohol or Drunker! drink in moderation like they do it in Europe.
And all the other qualifications... no one really qualifies anymore. Not given to filthy lucre...yeah right...but Gambler... the Love of money is the root of all evil...
HONESTLY? Who is even honest enough to see themselves as having these problems? Lover of hospitality? Jesus teaches what hospitality should look like. So does Isaiah. I don't see that anymore. Temperate...who isn't striving to make/get as much of this life as we can with the abilities and time that we've got? No wonder there's such monumental spiritual sickness. Lots of talk. Not enough do. It cannot change if the change isn't supported at the top. Who wants change? (Everyone) Who wants TO change? (No one) Those are the qualification for 2x2 church elders and back up elders... Nobody is perfect... God knows and see their hearts and He will appoint them to be leaders of His churches throughout the world as Pastors for His lambs and sheep.
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Post by iam on Mar 22, 2020 16:04:38 GMT -5
A worker told a story once of one of the friends in Africa that couldn't get to meetings. So she always had meetings in her home alone with her children. With the emblems. No one told her she could or couldn't do that. She just did. They kept faithful. But not many would be that brave. It looks like the purpose and place were being fulfilled. Yes. There are some that can't get to meetings because of choices they made that made them a pariah of the church through constant gossip and no acts of kindness. Probably that would be a purpose and place. They aren't doing well but they're doing the best they can. They have been so neglected by the church that they don't let anyone get near them much anymore. Know of two families like that and I want to remember to reach out in some way again.
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Post by iam on Mar 22, 2020 16:08:53 GMT -5
The husband of one wife. Back then that meant there was no one BEFORE. There was actually a time that that was clear. Yes, can't have multiples wives and be the church elder.
Sober? Like as in abstaining from alcohol? Because that's not all it means. NOT over access drinking of Alcohol or Drunker! drink in moderation like they do it in Europe.
And all the other qualifications... no one really qualifies anymore. Not given to filthy lucre...yeah right...but Gambler... the Love of money is the root of all evil...
HONESTLY? Who is even honest enough to see themselves as having these problems? Lover of hospitality? Jesus teaches what hospitality should look like. So does Isaiah. I don't see that anymore. Temperate...who isn't striving to make/get as much of this life as we can with the abilities and time that we've got? No wonder there's such monumental spiritual sickness. Lots of talk. Not enough do. It cannot change if the change isn't supported at the top. Who wants change? (Everyone) Who wants TO change? (No one) Those are the qualification for 2x2 church elders and back up elders... Nobody is perfect... God knows and see their hearts.
You're right. No one is perfect and that is the perfect excuse for sin and iniquity. Hear it all the time. Gotta be right if everyone is saying it.
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Post by nathan on Mar 22, 2020 16:14:03 GMT -5
Those are the qualification for 2x2 church elders and back up elders... Nobody is perfect... God knows and see their hearts.
You're right. No one is perfect and that is the perfect excuse for sin and iniquity. Hear it all the time. Gotta be right if everyone is saying it. Like you wrote NOT many church elders can fulfill ALL of those qualifications nowadays! That is where God's forgiveness comes in, and let God decides who qualifies as His under-shepherds pastors of His people around the world.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Mar 22, 2020 16:18:07 GMT -5
I could see the friends letting the workers make the permanent changes. But if 2 couples are camping in the mountains and have meeting, they shouldn't believe that they can't partake of the emblems.
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Post by speak on Mar 22, 2020 16:39:25 GMT -5
I could see the friends letting the workers make the permanent changes. But if 2 couples are camping in the mountains and have meeting, they shouldn't believe that they can't partake of the emblems. Who's going to take the emblems into the mountains? Get real talk about straining at a gnat to prove a point.
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Post by iam on Mar 22, 2020 16:45:24 GMT -5
You're right. No one is perfect and that is the perfect excuse for sin and iniquity. Hear it all the time. Gotta be right if everyone is saying it. Like you wrote NOT many church elders can fulfill ALL of those qualifications nowadays! That is where God's forgiveness comes in, and let God decides who qualifies as His under-shepherds pastors of His people around the world.Yes Nathan and yet I would hesitate to accept that role if I couldn't fulfill the qualifications to the utmost. People's spiritual health depends on it. Been in some meetings where those conditions really are upheld the way Jesus intended them to and what a huge difference it made to the whole meeting.
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Post by nathan on Mar 22, 2020 17:32:23 GMT -5
Yes Nathan and yet I would hesitate to accept that role if I couldn't fulfill the qualifications to the utmost. People's spiritual health depends on it. Been in some meetings where those conditions really are upheld the way Jesus intended them to and what a huge difference it made to the whole meeting. To be chosen as church elders by God are a great responsibilities, NOT just to put up chairs in your living rooms. God has entrusted a few of God's lambs and sheep under the church elders cares to watch for their natural and spiritual well beings.
God's lambs and sheep look up to them and trust them when they need help... Make the lambs and sheep feel welcome and at ease when they need help, they know where they can go to get some comfort.
Therefore, God doesn't want drunkard, gambler, abusers of their families, and so on church elders... because it frighten the sheep and lambs of God to go them for natural and spiritual help.
Paul wrote in Acts 20:17; 28-32 17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.... Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers/church elders, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Mar 22, 2020 17:44:33 GMT -5
Just reading comments on facebook, I believe some enjoyed their meeting with family than they did with their regular Sunday morning meeting crowd.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2020 17:58:35 GMT -5
You can never understand why those early Workers decided to throw in a whole lot of extra rules as extras. As already mentioned it was only about power and control over people. They kept saying they were following Christ, but how wrong they were. Christ would have lived in tune with prevailing social conditions. Christ was not about how people lived their natural life, he wanted them to be more humanistic, what he had learnt from the Buddhists. We know he was not interested in there daily activities by these verses that the Workers seem to have conveniently taken no notice of. Matthew 6:25-34 New International Version (NIV) Do Not Worry 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life ?
28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
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Post by Annan on Mar 22, 2020 18:23:00 GMT -5
The shepherd protects the sheep from the wolf, but in the end, it's the shepherd that eats them.
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Post by slowtosee on Mar 22, 2020 20:07:34 GMT -5
The shepherd protects the sheep from the wolf, but in the end, it's the shepherd that eats them. .... and then the shepherd dies and then the sheep eat the grass feeding on the shepherd and then the cycle of life continues and then ......🤗
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Post by Get off of TMB on Mar 22, 2020 20:11:06 GMT -5
Weldon Burgess, deceased Michigan overseer, verbally chastised some young people having meeting on a vacation because they mentioned about taking the bread and wine. A poster here has mentioned this incident more than once.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 8:56:23 GMT -5
I could see the friends letting the workers make the permanent changes. But if 2 couples are camping in the mountains and have meeting, they shouldn't believe that they can't partake of the emblems. Who's going to take the emblems into the mountains? Get real talk about straining at a gnat to prove a point. It is "worker doctrine" that the emblems must be taken in a meeting sanctified home. We've been told that directly from a lead worker, who said it was "very serious". It's very seriously nonsense of course, but they need some way to control people and stay relevant, and controlling when and where the emblems are taken is just petty enough to suit that purpose. The friends in the midwest have been instructed to have their own meetings with their own families, but (in bold letters) do not partake of these emblems.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 8:57:51 GMT -5
The shepherd protects the sheep from the wolf, but in the end, it's the shepherd that eats them. .... and then the shepherd dies and then the sheep eat the grass feeding on the shepherd and then the cycle of life continues and then ......🤗 and then the sun explodes in a giant fireball and everyone fries! 🤗😄
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Post by Get off of TMB on Mar 24, 2020 11:59:18 GMT -5
Greg's letter to Michigan friends makes it clear that families can have their own fellowship time. However, they aren't to partake of the emblems. I guess he is following the "standards" set by our dear old brother Weldon.
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Post by xna on Mar 24, 2020 13:18:57 GMT -5
Greg's letter to Michigan friends makes it clear that families can have their own fellowship time. However, they aren't to partake of the emblems. I guess he is following the "standards" set by our dear old brother Weldon. Rules that cause no outsider harm are at their sole discretion. People can decide if they want to play by those rules, or not.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Mar 24, 2020 14:47:55 GMT -5
When a lost eternity is factored into the equation, it is different. Some parents have conditioned children to believe certain things and it is hard to go against it for some people. They wouldn't want to burn forever for not doing the right thing about the emblems.
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Post by xna on Mar 24, 2020 15:03:51 GMT -5
When a lost eternity is factored into the equation, it is different. Some parents have conditioned children to believe certain things and it is hard to go against it for some people. They wouldn't want to burn forever for not doing the right thing about the emblems. The RCC does much the same. It decides who gets communion and uses this for control. It only works in denominations that run on fear.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Mar 24, 2020 15:07:15 GMT -5
JWs and Mormons seem to operate that way. Get people to fear going against the leaders lest they suffer eternal consequences. The weak and vulberable members and especially prone to not question their leaders. When a group tries to reduce people's self worth (subtle or not) people lack the proper mechanisms in dealing with the group pressure.
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Post by xna on Mar 24, 2020 15:26:12 GMT -5
JWs and Mormons seem to operate that way. Get people to fear going against the leaders lest they suffer eternal consequences. The weak and vulberable members and especially prone to not question their leaders. When a group tries to reduce people's self worth (subtle or not) people lack the proper mechanisms in dealing with the group pressure. My sense is that it's not so much the workers that have the control but as the 2x2 "live apart from the world" their peers most all of their social support is inside the 2x2. Some times its multiple generational peer pressure. It's very hard to walk away from everyone in your life and start from scratch without emotional and often financial support. The herd keeps the sheep in line, as much as the Shepards.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Mar 24, 2020 15:44:49 GMT -5
The herd keeps the sheep in line, as much as the Shepards. *** Yes maybe more so. Especially when it is close family. And underage children or spouses who financially depend upon someone who is very important in the system.
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