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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 23:21:30 GMT -5
No one suggested you "believe in" what you read. What's wrong with knowing what other people know? I like to know truth so I go directly to the source. No sense in wasting my time! Bob- Regarding my faith, I strictly receive truth from God. That is exactly how I know that is is truth!
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 23:22:41 GMT -5
I like to know truth so I go directly to the source. No sense in wasting my time![/qu
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 23:24:35 GMT -5
I like to know truth so I go directly to the source. No sense in wasting my time! So how do you conclude that something is true or not before you even know what it is? Bob- you can know God if that is what you are asking. Regarding faith/ beliefs- I am exclusive on my source! Ensures truth!
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 5, 2019 23:26:12 GMT -5
So how do you conclude that something is true or not before you even know what it is? Bob- you can know God if that is what you are asking. Regarding faith/ beliefs- I am exclusive on my source! Ensures truth! Do you read anything other than the Bible?
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 23:33:45 GMT -5
Bob- you can know God if that is what you are asking. Regarding faith/ beliefs- I am exclusive on my source! Ensures truth! Do you read anything other than the Bible? Yes!
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 5, 2019 23:37:18 GMT -5
Do you read anything other than the Bible? Yes! Any fiction?
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 23:39:48 GMT -5
Ha! Yes! Not my favorite choice usually, however totally unavoidable in our world. I think we all are subject to fiction- just reading the news everyday!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 6, 2019 0:07:14 GMT -5
I don’t believe the HS impregnated Mary. God implanted a fetus into her womb(sexless procreation) and when the HS overshadowed Mary, he was moving God’s only begotten Son as an eternal spirit into that fetus(a body thou hast prepared me). I don’t believe the HS is into impregnating females but he does move/transport spirits. I.E. John was in the Spirit in Revelations and was taken in the spirit by the Spirit into heaven. Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. You’re right that’s what it says. But in Luke it’s says Jesus is the Son of the Highest. Hmmmm! 😉
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Post by maryhig on Dec 8, 2019 10:09:36 GMT -5
Then how can Jesus be God, if God the father created him? If God created Jesus, then God the father is also the God of Jesus Christ. God DID NOT CREATE HIS SON, the Bible is clear. The Bible says Jesus is his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Sorry for the caps, I’m not shouting but that’s the only way to show stress on the phrases of importance! Jesus is begotten; humans are created. I know you're not shouting What do you think of these? Corinthians 1 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel Peter 1-5 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead John 1-5 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not I don't see word begotten to mean the same as you do. We are also begotten of God, once we are born anew in Christ Jesus.
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Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 10:19:00 GMT -5
God DID NOT CREATE HIS SON, the Bible is clear. The Bible says Jesus is his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Sorry for the caps, I’m not shouting but that’s the only way to show stress on the phrases of importance! Jesus is begotten; humans are created. I know you're not shouting What do you think of these? Corinthians 1 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel Peter 1-5 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead John 1-5 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not I don't see word begotten to mean the same as you do. We are also begotten of God, once we are born anew in Christ Jesus. My understanding is Christ is God uncreated because He is ETERNAL just like God the Father, but God the Father and Holy Spirit created/begotten Jesus the son of man 2000 yrs ago to die/redeem for our sins and became our Savior. The Spirit in Jesus is the Christ/God he is UNCREATED, because He is ETERNAL.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 8, 2019 10:40:05 GMT -5
I know you're not shouting What do you think of these? Corinthians 1 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel Peter 1-5 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead John 1-5 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not I don't see word begotten to mean the same as you do. We are also begotten of God, once we are born anew in Christ Jesus. My understanding is Christ is God uncreated because He is ETERNAL just like God the Father, but God the Father and Holy Spirit created/begotten Jesus the son of man 2000 yrs ago to die/redeem for our sins and became our Savior. The Spirit in Jesus is the Christ/God he is UNCREATED, because He is ETERNAL.
Well Nathan, those verses I've quoted, show us that all those born of God are begotten of him. And we are begotten through Christ Jesus, Jesus came to bare witness to the truth, and those who believe on him, and have true faith are being saved by the power of the Spirit. God wants to see the life of his son in and through us. And when we see Christ in the life of those truly born of him, then we know they are a begotten child of God. This morning in our meeting, we had a man who has just started coming to the meeting turn up at the house that the meeting was being held in. He had gone to the wrong house at first and he was then directed to where the meeting was. When he arrived, he pointed to one of the women out of everyone and said to her, "was that your sister in the other house? You are the image of her" and I thought he recognised her out of everybody as the other womens sister because she was the image of her. Then I said in the meeting that that's what God wants to see in us, he wants to see the image of his son, and when others see us, they would see his image and life through us if we are truly following Jesus and baring witness to the truth. And as we die to self, and the life of Christ grows within our hearts, our old life in this world should be going, and we should be living to please God, obeying his word and living by his will, putting him first in our lives and loving others, and if Christ is in our hearts, we will be doing this. This is how we know those begotten of God. Christ will be living through them. As Paul said, not me, but Christ in me. Paul didn't live to please Paul, Paul lived up please God and Christ lived through him. Jesus Christ was the firstbegotten, but there are many begotten of God through him.
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Post by reborn on Dec 8, 2019 10:41:51 GMT -5
Jesus stated- I am the resurrection and the life.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 8, 2019 10:43:47 GMT -5
Jesus stated- I am the resurrection and the life. Yes he is, and his life should be in the hearts of those born anew, and they should have his life and love living through them.
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Post by Annan on Dec 8, 2019 10:46:00 GMT -5
My understanding is Christ is God uncreated because He is ETERNAL just like God the Father, but God the Father and Holy Spirit created/begotten Jesus the son of man 2000 yrs ago to die/redeem for our sins and became our Savior. The Spirit in Jesus is the Christ/God he is UNCREATED, because He is ETERNAL.
That's what I was taught growing up in the 2x2 way.
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Post by reborn on Dec 8, 2019 10:50:04 GMT -5
There is a old hymn that used to be in our hymn book- no longer is . Live out thy life within me, oh Jesus king of kings- be thou thyself the answer to all my questioning.s. You can find this hymn on YouTube now. It’s beautiful.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 10:57:51 GMT -5
God DID NOT CREATE HIS SON, the Bible is clear. The Bible says Jesus is his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Sorry for the caps, I’m not shouting but that’s the only way to show stress on the phrases of importance! Jesus is begotten; humans are created. I know you're not shouting What do you think of these? Corinthians 1 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel Peter 1-5 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead John 1-5 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not I don't see word begotten to mean the same as you do. We are also begotten of God, once we are born anew in Christ Jesus. I know little how to explain this to you. But the verses you quoted have nothing to do with the “creation” versus “begetting “ of the Son of God. Simply because God “begat” his Son entirely alone. There was no one else involved in his begetting. Thus his Son could have been only 100% God. God’s Son is an eternal Divine spirit just as his Father is an eternal Divine spirit. God’s Son existed before the world ever became. John 17:5. And now, O Father, glorify me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. When the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, he moved the already existent person of God the Son into the fetus in Mary’s womb. God’s Son had to move into the body God had prepared for him Hebrews 10:5, in order that he could die for the sins of the world. God cannot die, so he had to have an human body to accomplish that. He was given an unborn body in order that his physical sacrifice would be pure. Just as the Mosaic law said the lamb must be the firstborn and pure without blemish(no sins no mars). In essence God was crucified for our sins, but he could not die but his physical human body did. If you have trouble with that vision. God’s Word was crucified, but God’s Word cannot die but his human body did. Those verses you quoted are about our “begetting” pertains to being born again in the spirit by the Holy Spirit.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 8, 2019 11:05:50 GMT -5
I know you're not shouting What do you think of these? Corinthians 1 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel Peter 1-5 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead John 1-5 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not I don't see word begotten to mean the same as you do. We are also begotten of God, once we are born anew in Christ Jesus. I know little how to explain this to you. But the verses you quoted have nothing to do with the “creation” versus “begetting “ of the Son of God. Simply because God “begat” his Son entirely alone. There was no one else involved in his begetting. Thus his Son could have been only 100% God. God’s Son is an eternal Divine spirit just as his Father is an eternal Divine spirit. God’s Son existed before the world ever became. John 17:5. And now, O Father, glorify me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. When the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, he moved the already existent person of God the Son into the fetus in Mary’s womb. God’s Son had to move into the body God had prepared for him Hebrews 10:5, in order that he could die for the sins of the world. God cannot die, so he had to have an human body to accomplish that. He was given an unborn body in order that his physical sacrifice would be pure. Just as the Mosaic law said the lamb must be the firstborn and pure without blemish(no sins no mars). In essence God was crucified for our sins, but he could not die but his physical human body did. If you have trouble with that vision. God’s Word was crucified, but God’s Word cannot die but his human body did. Those verses you quoted are about our “begetting” pertains to being born again in the spirit by the Holy Spirit. As you know I see those things very different to you, they have a deeper spiritual meaning. But we have gone over that already. Jesus was the firstbegotten, meaning he was the first to be begotten of God, those born of God are begotten also. Jesus is not God, he is the son of God. We will have to disagree on this as we go over it again and again, you seen obsessed with the trinity. I don't agree with you regarding the trinity, and I certainly don't believe that we must believe that Jesus is God to be saved as you do. We are to believe that he is the son of God and I do. If you want to judge others on that so be it. But I will leave God to do the judging.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 11:07:17 GMT -5
Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. You’re right that’s what it says. But in Luke it’s says Jesus is the Son of the Highest. Hmmmm! 😉 Bob, I think in essence what I said is so. But of course it was a process which is beyond man’s comprehension. However, it seems to me that even a normal impregnated fetus cannot be considered living until that “spirit” from God is instilled into that fertilized egg. It says that God knows us even before we are formed, while we are in the secrets of the lowest parts of the earth. So that seems to me that there is a knowledge of God about our fertilized egg/sperm union where our spirits have been instilled. The difference in Jesus’ is that the spirit instilled in Mary’s womb was the spirit was of an already existing very functioning spirit of God’s eternal Son.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 11:17:42 GMT -5
I know little how to explain this to you. But the verses you quoted have nothing to do with the “creation” versus “begetting “ of the Son of God. Simply because God “begat” his Son entirely alone. There was no one else involved in his begetting. Thus his Son could have been only 100% God. God’s Son is an eternal Divine spirit just as his Father is an eternal Divine spirit. God’s Son existed before the world ever became. John 17:5. And now, O Father, glorify me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. When the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, he moved the already existent person of God the Son into the fetus in Mary’s womb. God’s Son had to move into the body God had prepared for him Hebrews 10:5, in order that he could die for the sins of the world. God cannot die, so he had to have an human body to accomplish that. He was given an unborn body in order that his physical sacrifice would be pure. Just as the Mosaic law said the lamb must be the firstborn and pure without blemish(no sins no mars). In essence God was crucified for our sins, but he could not die but his physical human body did. If you have trouble with that vision. God’s Word was crucified, but God’s Word cannot die but his human body did. Those verses you quoted are about our “begetting” pertains to being born again in the spirit by the Holy Spirit. As you know I see those things very different to you, they have a deeper spiritual meaning. But we have gone over that already. Jesus was the firstbegotten, meaning he was the first to be begotten of God, those born of God are begotten also. Jesus is not God, he is the son of God. We will have to disagree on this as we go over it again and again, you seen obsessed with the trinity. I don't agree with you regarding the trinity, and I certainly don't believe that we must believe that Jesus is God to be saved as you do. We are to believe that he is the son of God and I do. If you want to judge others on that so be it. But I will leave God to do the judging. No! Jesus as the human bodied Son of God who died, is the “FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD”! Resurrected unto life eternal, his body had been transfigured on the mount before his crucifixion , he could have gone to heaven right then and had an eternal body. Revelations 1:5. And from Jesus Christ , who is the faithful witness, AND THE FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD, and the prince of the kings of the earth,. Unto him that LOVED US AND washed us from our sins in his own blood, Verse 6: And hath made us kings and priests unto GOD AND HIS FATHER... How do you explain being made a priest and king UNTO GOD AND HIS FATHER? Deeper spiritual meaning, Mary? That’s where you’re very wrong. You have no idea of the price at which our redeemer came until you realize that it was God the Son who was crucified for our sins. That in essence it was God who was crucified for our sins, but God cannot die so a human body was prepared for him. How you think a mere man’s blood could cleanse you when it plainly states in Psalms that a man cannot redeem his brother, nor can a man offer God a ransom for him. It doesn’t work that way, Mary. Your believe Jesus was just a man doesn’t change who was crucified at all except for what it does in your mind and heart. Think of it like this if you can. The creator came down and sacrificed himself for his creatures. However it comes about to you; you have to come to realize the cost at which he came in order to really “have a deeper spiritual” meaning. So please, quit thinking your inability to see the everlasting Son of God in Jesus is far superior to those who feel and know the sorrow of what their sins caused the Son of God in his love for the world to come from heaven’s home to give his every drop of blood in order mankind can be in eternity with him.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 8, 2019 11:29:58 GMT -5
As you know I see those things very different to you, they have a deeper spiritual meaning. But we have gone over that already. Jesus was the firstbegotten, meaning he was the first to be begotten of God, those born of God are begotten also. Jesus is not God, he is the son of God. We will have to disagree on this as we go over it again and again, you seen obsessed with the trinity. I don't agree with you regarding the trinity, and I certainly don't believe that we must believe that Jesus is God to be saved as you do. We are to believe that he is the son of God and I do. If you want to judge others on that so be it. But I will leave God to do the judging. No! Jesus as the human bodied Son of God who died, is the “FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD”! Resurrected unto life eternal, his body had been transfigured on the mount before his crucifixion , he could have gone to heaven right then and had an eternal body. Revelations 1:5. And from Jesus Christ , who is the faithful witness, AND THE FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD, and the prince of the kings of the earth,. Unto him that LOVED US AND washed us from our sins in his own blood, Verse 6: And hath made us kings and priests unto GOD AND HIS FATHER... How do you explain being made a priest and king UNTO GOD AND HIS FATHER? You've just answered that yourself! Being MADE a priest unto GOD his father. He was made a priest by God, because God the father is his God. And I don't see those verses in revelation as you do, you see it as literally dying, I see it as being dead to the world. I'll leave it there, as we don't agree on this, and I'm not going to argue with you regarding Jesus being God.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 11:33:35 GMT -5
No! Jesus as the human bodied Son of God who died, is the “FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD”! Resurrected unto life eternal, his body had been transfigured on the mount before his crucifixion , he could have gone to heaven right then and had an eternal body. Revelations 1:5. And from Jesus Christ , who is the faithful witness, AND THE FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD, and the prince of the kings of the earth,. Unto him that LOVED US AND washed us from our sins in his own blood, Verse 6: And hath made us kings and priests unto GOD AND HIS FATHER... How do you explain being made a priest and king UNTO GOD AND HIS FATHER? You've just answered that yourself! Being MADE a priest unto GOD his father. He was made a priest by God, because God the father is his God. And I don't see those verses in revelation as you do, you see it as literally dying, I see it as being dead to the world. I'll leave it there, as we don't agree on this, and I'm not going to argue with you regarding Jesus being God. You didn’t read it right! It says: “...UNTO GOD AND HIS FATHER...”
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Post by maryhig on Dec 8, 2019 11:43:45 GMT -5
You've just answered that yourself! Being MADE a priest unto GOD his father. He was made a priest by God, because God the father is his God. And I don't see those verses in revelation as you do, you see it as literally dying, I see it as being dead to the world. I'll leave it there, as we don't agree on this, and I'm not going to argue with you regarding Jesus being God. You didn’t read it right! It says: “...UNTO GOD AND HIS FATHER...” It still means he was MADE a priest and he was made Lord over us, he was also exalted, anointed, set at the right hand of God, by his God. Acts 2 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, THAT GOD HATH MADE the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both LORD AND CHRIST.
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Post by rational on Dec 8, 2019 11:56:58 GMT -5
I like to know truth so I go directly to the source. No sense in wasting my time! Bob- Regarding my faith, I strictly receive truth from God. That is exactly how I know that is is truth! Oddly enough, that is exactly what Esteban Santiago claimed after killing five people and wounding eight. He heard voices in his head directing him. How do your voices differ? Suppose god spoke to you and said to honor him you needed to prove the strength of christian faith by sacrificing a muslim? Or, as in the case of Abraham, sacrificing your son/daughter? The belief that one’s mind is being controlled by some outside force is not all that uncommon. Why is yours special?
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Post by rational on Dec 8, 2019 11:58:24 GMT -5
Hey Mary - you are a brave woman!
Good to see you (too lazy to PM!).
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Post by reborn on Dec 8, 2019 12:04:22 GMT -5
I love the verse in Timothy 3:16- “ Great is the MYSTERY of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles,believed on in the world, received up into Glory.” If we have a MYSTERY- let us go unto the one who is the author and finisher of our faith to get our own revelation. Worked for me!
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Post by rational on Dec 8, 2019 12:11:12 GMT -5
I love the verse in Timothy 3:16- “ Great is the MYSTERY of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles,believed on in the world, received up into Glory.” If we have a MYSTERY- let us go unto the one who is the author and finisher of our faith to get our own revelation. Worked for me! No comment on the revelation of Esteban Santiago? I worked at a psychiatric institute for a number of years and have listened to scores of young adults suffering from schizophrenia who were just as sure of their revelation as you seem to be. From what you have posted you could well be suffering some form of schizophrenia. How would you know?
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Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 12:14:51 GMT -5
My understanding is Christ is God uncreated because He is ETERNAL just like God the Father, but God the Father and Holy Spirit created/begotten Jesus the son of man 2000 yrs ago to die/redeem for our sins and became our Savior. The Spirit in Jesus is the Christ/God he is UNCREATED, because He is ETERNAL.
That's what I was taught growing up in the 2x2 way. Thanks, that is how I understand it too, and MANY of the early days workers and friends believe the same way. There are so much confusion and many different interpretation on the Trinity/Godhead and Jesus is Not God out there and the lack understanding on the topic with MANY people. It has caused a lot of confusion among the workers in 1950s among the workers and friends so they became anti- Trinity and Jesus is NOT God; the Trinity is the RCC heresy teaching and pagans belief, the friends believe these workers teachings as the gospel TRUTH without question. NOW, we have a BIG MESS on our hands and it will take yrs to UNDO these anti-Trinity; Jesus is NOT God teachings among us.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 13:10:36 GMT -5
You didn’t read it right! It says: “...UNTO GOD AND HIS FATHER...” It still means he was MADE a priest and he was made Lord over us, he was also exalted, anointed, set at the right hand of God, by his God. Acts 2 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, THAT GOD HATH MADE the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both LORD AND CHRIST. You’re not paying heed to the what those two verses are saying. It says : “...Unto HIM that LOVED and WASHED us from our sins in HIS OWN blood. AND hath MADE US kings and priests unto GOD AND HIS FATHER;” Not one word about him being made priest or king; but US being made priests and kings UNTO GOD AND HIS FATHER.
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