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Post by nathan on Jan 12, 2020 0:14:07 GMT -5
Anman, YOU have NO POWER over me! Don't even TRY it. I tell you something... The house we lived in for 20 yrs was FILLED with demonic and ghost beings, they tortured my wife but they NEVER touch me once! So, I will say this your SPELL will NOT work on me because I have a MUCH higher power living in me, than the little magic that you have.
Be very careful, with the dark/black magic power you play with, they will come back and bite you in the A** Don't PLAY with fire! you will get burned badly. You don't KNOW what you get yourself into, it's NOT fun and game as teenagers and people think. They/Satan own your soul forever, unless you ask Christ/God to deliver from the DARKNESS of HELL. ONLY Christ can help you. I was there so, I KNOW these things first hand experience.
My mother used to conjer the dead to speak to her... Yes, I know about Black magic. I was possessed by demonic beings before I met the workers. After I professed God fills me His Holy Spirit those demonic spirits LEFT me ASAP, the workers didn't know these things had happened to me because I never told them.
Nathan, -if you had so much power against these "demons," -why would you allow them to "torture your wife?" With all that power you were suppose to have against them, why couldn't you protect her?
She didn't tell me at first because she thought I didn't believe her.... I tried to help her by telling her to cast them out in Jesus name and she tried it and it worked. They don't bother her as much anymore. They used to manifest themselves in ghostly spirit and they came in her room and walked through walls. They sit next to her, but I NEVER saw even one of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 0:14:31 GMT -5
haha... She got the magic spells on people, you and I don't. Don't tempt me. you need a time out...
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Post by Dan on Jan 12, 2020 0:21:51 GMT -5
It sounds more like you just stopped believing?
People fall away for a plethora of reasons; Doubts, a lack of answers or answers they don't like, belief switching to science instead of God, unanswered prayers, a desire for proof of God, or the adversaries favorite weapon 'confusion', which he's been using ever since Eve.
No one starts out automatically believing. It starts with hope, which emanates from a desire to find a meaning to life. Hope = Belief = Faith, in that order. Hope is the inspiration, belief is the decision, and faith is the conviction. This assigns a purpose to life and gives people a reason to live. jmo
NO! We didn't just decide to "stop" believing! In fact, -at least for me and I'm sure others as well, -it was a very painful process.
Just think about it for a moment; -at least for we who had been "professing" in the *THRUTH* as we called it. It wasn't like some of the other churches.
Our WHOLE lives circled around what we believed. Where we could GO or not go. (not go to any events considered "worldly") What we could have in our homes and NOT have. (no radios, not even a 'player piano' -it was too much like a phonograph) What we COULD wear and not wear. (please, I don't even want to go there. everyone knows that!)
Now, I am only showing all of that to show just how saturated with our belief that our whole lives were compared to the lives of 'outsiders'. So when I left I just felt in a sort of painful limbo for a long while and thought THAT same painful limbo would be what the rest of my life would consist of.
It was not a pleasant picture of the future, -no matter what you might like to believe was the reason for my leaving.
I will not go into all the 'plethora of reasons' that you would like to believe as the reason that I left. I have heard them all before.
I do want comment on this statement. You say "No one starts out automatically believing." That isn't true-at least for hose who were born & raised in a Christian culture. Any Christian church. Believing was just an automatic response to their upbringing.
As for having "a purpose to life and gives people a reason to live," -I personally can attest to the fact that one does NOT need a supernatural being called god or whatever one wants to call it, -in order to give one a reason to live.
My comments were just general reasons that might cause a one time believer to have a change of heart, none of those reasons were specific to you. You seem to have been more disgruntled with the Truth (2x2), which would fall into the category of not agreeing with answers or their prescribed Way? Bottom line is that you stopped believing everything, so it wasn't just the church, it was the bible and Christianity altogether. Belief was an individual choice for me (nothing automatic), but you obviously feel you were indoctrinated and had no choice? I get that.. And my comment about people hoping to find a purpose and meaning to life was in reference to things beyond the here & now. I understand that most people can find a reason to live, but that's temporary, there's no hope beyond the grave.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 12, 2020 1:00:20 GMT -5
STR, -so have you said of yourself that you've "been terribly offended not once but three times while being a 2x2." But I don't see Snow analyzing why you do believe in a god.
She was still a child, besides being a very Sensitive person. I was a bit older when I became offended the first time and truthfully I didn’t profess much interest in the Bible nor God, it could have gone either direction. I did go to the Methodist church with my husband and fil even played the organ/piano for them but never got involved in my heart nor mind.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 12, 2020 1:27:10 GMT -5
NO! We didn't just decide to "stop" believing! In fact, -at least for me and I'm sure others as well, -it was a very painful process.
Just think about it for a moment; -at least for we who had been "professing" in the *THRUTH* as we called it. It wasn't like some of the other churches.
Our WHOLE lives circled around what we believed. Where we could GO or not go. (not go to any events considered "worldly") What we could have in our homes and NOT have. (no radios, not even a 'player piano' -it was too much like a phonograph) What we COULD wear and not wear. (please, I don't even want to go there. everyone knows that!)
Now, I am only showing all of that to show just how saturated with our belief that our whole lives were compared to the lives of 'outsiders'. So when I left I just felt in a sort of painful limbo for a long while and thought THAT same painful limbo would be what the rest of my life would consist of.
It was not a pleasant picture of the future, -no matter what you might like to believe was the reason for my leaving.
I will not go into all the 'plethora of reasons' that you would like to believe as the reason that I left. I have heard them all before.
I do want comment on this statement. You say "No one starts out automatically believing." That isn't true-at least for hose who were born & raised in a Christian culture. Any Christian church. Believing was just an automatic response to their upbringing.
As for having "a purpose to life and gives people a reason to live," -I personally can attest to the fact that one does NOT need a supernatural being called god or whatever one wants to call it, -in order to give one a reason to live.
My comments were just general reasons that might cause a one time believer to have a change of heart, none of those reasons were specific to you. You seem to have been more disgruntled with the Truth (2x2), which would fall into the category of not agreeing with answers or their prescribed Way? Bottom line is that you stopped believing everything, so it wasn't just the church, it was the bible and Christianity altogether. Belief was an individual choice for me (nothing automatic), but you obviously feel you were indoctrinated and had no choice? I get that..
And my comment about people hoping to find a purpose and meaning to life was in reference to things beyond the here & now. I understand that most people can find a reason to live, but that's temporary, there's no hope beyond the grave.
Dan, I realize your remarks were made in general, but you did say, "It sounds more like you just stopped believing?" I felt that needed answering. Not sure what you mean by "disgruntled." I certainly did have an experience where I begin to see just how that whole structure of the *TRUTH" was construct by a power system of control from the top down with no recourse to anyone else for help.
Yes, I did eventually stop believing not only the *TRUTH,* -but the bible and Christianity altogether, BUT not before I did a lot researching other Christian churches, -delving into the research of the origin of the bible & history behind Christianity itself as well as non-Christian religions.
That may sound rather easy and happened rather fast but it was a long journey before I reached where I am now. None of it was done on the spur of the moment just because I was "disgruntled."
You say that for you it was "individual choice for me (nothing automatic)"--does that mean you were not born & raised in the *TRUTH" as I was? I believed, as I think all young people who "make their choice" -also do believe that it is an individual choice when they decide. I certainly knew that I did.
Now I realized it was because I was indoctrinated in that particular belief. Had my parents been Lutherans, I no doubt would have been confirmed within that religion.
As to a purpose in life, -one of the things I begin to understand about the reasons people believe in Christianity is that desire for a "hope beyond the grave."
When I was pondering that as a reason to believe, it just seemed a rather shallow selfish reason based personal desires.
I decided that wasn't for me. Surely, I could be a decent person without that.
So I am where I am now.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 12, 2020 2:00:40 GMT -5
STR, -so have you said of yourself that you've "been terribly offended not once but three times while being a 2x2." But I don't see Snow analyzing why you do believe in a god.
She was still a child, besides being a very Sensitive person. I was a bit older when I became offended the first time and truthfully I didn’t profess much interest in the Bible nor God, it could have gone either direction. I did go to the Methodist church with my husband and fil even played the organ/piano for them but never got involved in my heart nor mind. Snow left when she was twelve I think. And you term that a child. Your god got Mary pregnant at about the same age.
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Post by Annan on Jan 12, 2020 7:13:11 GMT -5
YOU have NO POWER over me! Don't even TRY it. You are wasting your time and energy. I tell you something... The house we lived in for 20 yrs was FILLED with demons and ghost beings, they appeared and tortured my wife but they NEVER touch me once! So, I will say this your SPELLS will NOT work on me, it might backfire on you, because I have a MUCH higher power living in me, than the little magic that you have.
Be very careful, with the dark/black magic power you play with, they will come back and bite you in the A** Don't PLAY with fire! you will get burned badly. You don't KNOW what you get yourself into, it's NOT fun and game as teenagers and people think. The fallen angels/Satan/demons own your soul forever, unless you ask Christ/God to deliver from the DARKNESS of HELL. ONLY Christ can help you. I was there so, I KNOW these things first hand experience.
My mother used to summon the dead spirits to speak to her and tell her about her future plans... Yes, I know about Black magic. I was possessed by demonic beings before I met the workers. After I professed God fills me His Holy Spirit those demonic spirits LEFT me ASAP, the workers didn't know these things had happened to me because I never told them.
Wow! You make some strong assumptions about me, Nathan. I am not vengeful. I take my spellwork VERY seriously. I am a healer. If I were to sink to the level of blasting every Tom, Dick, and Nathan that pisses me off, I'd lose my healing abilities. One rule of thumb for witches says you get back what you put out three times over. I interpret that to mean that my intent affects me mind, body, and soul. I put myself in jeopardy for no one, not even you. Yeah. I blow my stack now and then, but it never involves spellwork. What I said was a joke.
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 12, 2020 9:31:01 GMT -5
YOU have NO POWER over me! Don't even TRY it. You are wasting your time and energy. I tell you something... The house we lived in for 20 yrs was FILLED with demons and ghost beings, they appeared and tortured my wife but they NEVER touch me once! So, I will say this your SPELLS will NOT work on me, it might backfire on you, because I have a MUCH higher power living in me, than the little magic that you have.
Be very careful, with the dark/black magic power you play with, they will come back and bite you in the A** Don't PLAY with fire! you will get burned badly. You don't KNOW what you get yourself into, it's NOT fun and game as teenagers and people think. The fallen angels/Satan/demons own your soul forever, unless you ask Christ/God to deliver from the DARKNESS of HELL. ONLY Christ can help you. I was there so, I KNOW these things first hand experience.
My mother used to summon the dead spirits to speak to her and tell her about her future plans... Yes, I know about Black magic. I was possessed by demonic beings before I met the workers. After I professed God fills me His Holy Spirit those demonic spirits LEFT me ASAP, the workers didn't know these things had happened to me because I never told them.
Wow! You make some strong assumptions about me, Nathan. I am not vengeful. I take my spellwork VERY seriously. I am a healer. If I were to sink to the level of blasting every Tom, Dick, and Nathan that pisses me off, I'd lose my healing abilities. One rule of thumb for witches says you get back what you put out three times over. I interpret that to mean that my intent affects me mind, body, and soul. I put myself in jeopardy for no one, not even you. Yeah. I blow my stack now and then, but it never involves spellwork. What I said was a joke. Is the “Rule of three “ an article of your faith , for you personally ? I understand it is not a universal tenet for witches. Alvin
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Post by Annan on Jan 12, 2020 9:57:01 GMT -5
Wow! You make some strong assumptions about me, Nathan. I am not vengeful. I take my spellwork VERY seriously. I am a healer. If I were to sink to the level of blasting every Tom, Dick, and Nathan that pisses me off, I'd lose my healing abilities. One rule of thumb for witches says you get back what you put out three times over. I interpret that to mean that my intent affects me mind, body, and soul. I put myself in jeopardy for no one, not even you. Yeah. I blow my stack now and then, but it never involves spellwork. What I said was a joke. Is the “Rule of three “ an article of your faith , for you personally ? I understand it is not a universal tenet for witches. Alvin Yes. For me personally. It's more of a Wiccan thing. I am not Wiccan. It makes no sense to me that we reap what we sow three times over. If that were the case, we'd all be in a world of hurt. Again, what we spend our time fantasizing about soon finds an outlet in our actions. Not always a good thing! We attract what we put out in that we attract what our mental musings stir. I practice what I call Reiki Magick, as it is my belief that there is no situation that can't be helped with a little healing. I do spin a binding spell once in a while. A binding spell is designed to wrap a wrong-doer up in their own wrongdoing. They find themselves victim of their own wrongdoing. For example... A friend of mine asked me for a spell to stop her neighbor from hurting his dog. She was afraid he would poison or harm her dogs if she reported him. After the spell, he found himself arrested for drugs and went to jail. His dog ended up at the local animal shelter and was adopted. Did it happen by chance? Who knows? Like my sister says, Trust the process. I only do binding spells when I feel nothing else will work. Some people can't be healed as healing is a choice. If someone were hurting your loved one, you would pull out all stops to put an end to it. Law enforcement doesn't always bring justice. I do, however, flow reiki to those investigating or looking to find a solution to the wrongdoing of others. Reiki first, then I take things into my own hands.
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 12, 2020 10:54:39 GMT -5
Thankyou
I didnt realize the risks of “backfiring” We were at Indian village other day , where I thot witch doctor was in control , but if he didn’t heal or solve a problem , he was at huge risk of retribution and for sure , historically . Of death Alvin
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 12, 2020 12:31:00 GMT -5
She was still a child, besides being a very Sensitive person. I was a bit older when I became offended the first time and truthfully I didn’t profess much interest in the Bible nor God, it could have gone either direction. I did go to the Methodist church with my husband and fil even played the organ/piano for them but never got involved in my heart nor mind. Snow left when she was twelve I think. And you term that a child. Your god got Mary pregnant at about the same age. Mary had to grow and learn as Jesus grew up. She kept things in her heart and pondered them. It wasn’t until Jesus was 30 years old that Mary let it be known she understood that Jesus had the powers of God and she released him from the bonds of family responsibilities at the wedding feast. Btw, one reason girls were betrothed at 12-14 y/o was to insure their virginity plus the fact people didn’t live as long and many mothers died young. Being too young was likely one reason.
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2020 12:35:58 GMT -5
Well the way I see it, if someone believes and has faith, attends church and tries to be a comfort and help others, and were baptized, I don't see how you can say they weren't born again. If what you say is true, not many people are saved. Being born again doesn’t mean going to church. Going to church is for fellowship with like believers. Being born again “IN THE SPIRIT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT” is receiving newness of spiritual life because before that we were spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. That’s why I’ve been of the opinion that you, Snow, at 12 years of age could not have been totally held responsible for choosing to quit believing. I believe the factors that injured your tender psyche is what was the impetus that pushed you away before you could come to know God for yourself. It interrupted the process of human belief growing into faith given by God. I think in actuality there are variations to why the different atheists on TMB are atheists. I don’t think it’s entirely the same process or experiences. I agree we all likely had unique experience that led to us being atheists, but I also think that anyone that was a believer to the extent many here were, the process would have been traumatic and not a choice. As DMG said earlier, being part of the group called the Truth, you were saturated in the group in more ways than at a regular church. You were raised to believe that your group was the only one that was right and if you left you were going to hell. The friends were your life because it was frowned on to be too close to anyone from the 'world'. So not only did they lose their belief in a god, they also lost the group they had been completely submerged in. I can't imagine how hard that was for those who had professed for over 40 years. So I think it was very hard for most Christians that were devout to all of a sudden realize they no longer believed. I know the pastors that we mentor have a very hard time. Part of it is the loss of a life they knew and the other part is guilt that they 'conned' so many people. They see it that way and feel really bad about their role in it. So, it's not easy and it takes time to heal so when people say it's a choice because we didn't want to obey anymore, they are so off base that it's not even worth contemplating imo
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 12, 2020 12:37:46 GMT -5
YOU have NO POWER over me! Don't even TRY it. You are wasting your time and energy. I tell you something... The house we lived in for 20 yrs was FILLED with demons and ghost beings, they appeared and tortured my wife but they NEVER touch me once! So, I will say this your SPELLS will NOT work on me, it might backfire on you, because I have a MUCH higher power living in me, than the little magic that you have.
Be very careful, with the dark/black magic power you play with, they will come back and bite you in the A** Don't PLAY with fire! you will get burned badly. You don't KNOW what you get yourself into, it's NOT fun and game as teenagers and people think. The fallen angels/Satan/demons own your soul forever, unless you ask Christ/God to deliver from the DARKNESS of HELL. ONLY Christ can help you. I was there so, I KNOW these things first hand experience.
My mother used to summon the dead spirits to speak to her and tell her about her future plans... Yes, I know about Black magic. I was possessed by demonic beings before I met the workers. After I professed God fills me His Holy Spirit those demonic spirits LEFT me ASAP, the workers didn't know these things had happened to me because I never told them.
Wow! You make some strong assumptions about me, Nathan. I am not vengeful. I take my spellwork VERY seriously. I am a healer. If I were to sink to the level of blasting every Tom, Dick, and Nathan that pisses me off, I'd lose my healing abilities. One rule of thumb for witches says you get back what you put out three times over. I interpret that to mean that my intent affects me mind, body, and soul. I put myself in jeopardy for no one, not even you. Yeah. I blow my stack now and then, but it never involves spellwork. What I said was a joke. So the movie idea of that when a witch gets mad that whatever she thinks or says becomes true isn’t really so?
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2020 12:39:14 GMT -5
But you do. You worship the Christian God just like STR. sometimes i wonder about that.... From my viewpoint, it seems as though everyone has their own version of what God is and their own interpretation. The Christian God is many things to many people it seems.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 12, 2020 12:45:19 GMT -5
Being born again doesn’t mean going to church. Going to church is for fellowship with like believers. Being born again “IN THE SPIRIT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT” is receiving newness of spiritual life because before that we were spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. That’s why I’ve been of the opinion that you, Snow, at 12 years of age could not have been totally held responsible for choosing to quit believing. I believe the factors that injured your tender psyche is what was the impetus that pushed you away before you could come to know God for yourself. It interrupted the process of human belief growing into faith given by God. I think in actuality there are variations to why the different atheists on TMB are atheists. I don’t think it’s entirely the same process or experiences. I agree we all likely had unique experience that led to us being atheists, but I also think that anyone that was a believer to the extent many here were, the process would have been traumatic and not a choice. As DMG said earlier, being part of the group called the Truth, you were saturated in the group in more ways than at a regular church. You were raised to believe that your group was the only one that was right and if you left you were going to hell. The friends were your life because it was frowned on to be too close to anyone from the 'world'. So not only did they lose their belief in a god, they also lost the group they had been completely submerged in. I can't imagine how hard that was for those who had professed for over 40 years. So I think it was very hard for most Christians that were devout to all of a sudden realize they no longer believed. I know the pastors that we mentor have a very hard time. Part of it is the loss of a life they knew and the other part is guilt that they 'conned' so many people. They see it that way and feel really bad about their role in it. So, it's not easy and it takes time to heal so when people say it's a choice because we didn't want to obey anymore, they are so off base that it's not even worth contemplating imo I feel you are probably right. Sometimes choices seem to be made for us, and not only in religious way either. The painful exit of leaving the 2x2s is felt by any who have spent anytime within the group. I think even the teenagers who exit after starting university studies even feel some pain. One can’t participate in what had been no-no’s without pausing for a second to realize that it was just a legalistic hang up of the 2x2s. Maybe in some ways becoming an atheists is more insular in that the 2x2s one has known or been akin to aren’t as judgmental about because they think, “Well at least they haven’t taken up with a false religion. And they’ll be back to the 2x2s.” But the 2x2s are quick to judge the exiting ones who have gone to other churches as damned to hell.
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2020 12:45:44 GMT -5
Being born again doesn’t mean going to church. Going to church is for fellowship with like believers. Being born again “IN THE SPIRIT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT” is receiving newness of spiritual life because before that we were spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. That’s why I’ve been of the opinion that you, Snow, at 12 years of age could not have been totally held responsible for choosing to quit believing. I believe the factors that injured your tender psyche is what was the impetus that pushed you away before you could come to know God for yourself. It interrupted the process of human belief growing into faith given by God. I think in actuality there are variations to why the different atheists on TMB are atheists. I don’t think it’s entirely the same process or experiences. STR, Please don't use such a condescending patronizing attitude toward Snow like that!
I envy snow, -in that she showed so much knowledge at the age of 12 & the grit to do something about it that I didn't have until my own middle life. It's okay dmg thank you. Just to be clear I still believed in that God and the Truth, I just couldn't worship a God that did what he did in the OT. I tried and I asked the workers why but they just got mad at me for questioning. So my decision was a really hard one because I truly believed I would go to hell for not worshiping God. It was only as I got older that I realized there was no God and therefore no hell and all was well. But I was still pretty convinced at age 12 that I was going to hell. I still believed in other words, I just couldn't worship that god. I was so horrified by what I had read in the OT. I often wonder whether I'd still be a Christian if I hadn't wanted to be a worker and decided I'd better read all the bible so I would have a good grasp of it when I did become a worker. It was the first time I started to read the bible from the beginning. Of course I had to get through the OT and that didn't go well!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 12, 2020 12:48:26 GMT -5
sometimes i wonder about that.... From my viewpoint, it seems as though everyone has their own version of what God is and their own interpretation. The Christian God is many things to many people it seems. I can see what you mean. Truthfully, it’s just been later years that I’ve become aware that if I’m going to believe the God in the Bible is the true God, then I need to get acquainted with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I’ve really enjoyed listening to the Jews who’ve become Messianic Jews. And for the most part they’ve used the OT to get there.
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Post by Dan on Jan 12, 2020 12:50:11 GMT -5
My comments were just general reasons that might cause a one time believer to have a change of heart, none of those reasons were specific to you. You seem to have been more disgruntled with the Truth (2x2), which would fall into the category of not agreeing with answers or their prescribed Way? Bottom line is that you stopped believing everything, so it wasn't just the church, it was the bible and Christianity altogether. Belief was an individual choice for me (nothing automatic), but you obviously feel you were indoctrinated and had no choice? I get that..
And my comment about people hoping to find a purpose and meaning to life was in reference to things beyond the here & now. I understand that most people can find a reason to live, but that's temporary, there's no hope beyond the grave.
Dan, I realize your remarks were made in general, but you did say, "It sounds more like you just stopped believing?" I felt that needed answering. Not sure what you mean by "disgruntled." I certainly did have an experience where I begin to see just how that whole structure of the *TRUTH" was construct by a power system of control from the top down with no recourse to anyone else for help.
Yes, I did eventually stop believing not only the *TRUTH,* -but the bible and Christianity altogether, BUT not before I did a lot researching other Christian churches, -delving into the research of the origin of the bible & history behind Christianity itself as well as non-Christian religions.
That may sound rather easy and happened rather fast but it was a long journey before I reached where I am now. None of it was done on the spur of the moment just because I was "disgruntled."
You say that for you it was "individual choice for me (nothing automatic)"--does that mean you were not born & raised in the *TRUTH" as I was? I believed, as I think all young people who "make their choice" -also do believe that it is an individual choice when they decide. I certainly knew that I did.
Now I realized it was because I was indoctrinated in that particular belief. Had my parents been Lutherans, I no doubt would have been confirmed within that religion.
As to a purpose in life, -one of the things I begin to understand about the reasons people believe in Christianity is that desire for a "hope beyond the grave."
When I was pondering that as a reason to believe, it just seemed a rather shallow selfish reason based personal desires.
I decided that wasn't for me. Surely, I could be a decent person without that.
So I am where I am now.
That's cool, we aren't much different, I also did a great deal of biblical research, but reached a completely different conclusion than you did, so I remain a professing Christian fundamentalist. I left the Truth for varied reasons, but essentially thought that they were too strict & focused on a lot of superficial things like dress codes, while not emphasizing more important things. Jesus said, "My yoke is easy", but they seemed to have made it much more difficult than it ought to be.
I'd be a Christian even without the promise of everlasting life, so its not selfish desire that motivates me. I agree that you can be a decent person without any religious influence, but I follow the example and teachings of Jesus because he epitomizes everything that's decent, and then some.
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2020 12:52:01 GMT -5
Question?
I don't think so.
Here is what you said:
"I’ve been of the opinion that you, Snow, at 12 years of age could not have been totally held responsible for choosing to quit believing.
I believe the factors that injured your tender psyche is what was the impetus that pushed you away before you could come to know God for yourself.
It interrupted the process of human belief growing into faith given by God." She is the one who said how it hurt to read about the wrath of God. She is the one who said she was 12 years old. There is only common horse sense reasoning that her sensitive psyche was injured before she was old enough to learn the rationale behind the times God vented his wrath. He was fully justified. She did make a choice to quit believing and according to her that was one of the reasons and another one was she felt hurt when her professing family condemned non-professing family. That was ALL HER OWN WORDS. There’s nothing patronizing nor condescending about it. I fully can understand how she came to not believing. No STR, I didn't quit believing at 12. I fully believed that I was going to hell for making the choice of not worshiping a God that would do that. The unbelief came as I grew older and I had studied many different religions. You aren't wrong about me making a choice, but you are wrong about me making a choice not to believe. I totally believed the Truth was the only way to heaven and worshiping that God was the only way. My choice made me so scared at the time, but it had to be done. I was a 12 year old and not fully matured in critical thinking so I never took the leap into unbelief until I was older.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 12, 2020 13:05:10 GMT -5
She is the one who said how it hurt to read about the wrath of God. She is the one who said she was 12 years old. There is only common horse sense reasoning that her sensitive psyche was injured before she was old enough to learn the rationale behind the times God vented his wrath. He was fully justified. She did make a choice to quit believing and according to her that was one of the reasons and another one was she felt hurt when her professing family condemned non-professing family. That was ALL HER OWN WORDS. There’s nothing patronizing nor condescending about it. I fully can understand how she came to not believing. No STR, I didn't quit believing at 12. I fully believed that I was going to hell for making the choice of not worshiping a God that would do that. The unbelief came as I grew older and I had studied many different religions. You aren't wrong about me making a choice, but you are wrong about me making a choice not to believe. I totally believed the Truth was the only way to heaven and worshiping that God was the only way. My choice made me so scared at the time, but it had to be done. I was a 12 year old and not fully matured in critical thinking so I never took the leap into unbelief until I was older. I’m sorry I misunderstood you to say you quit professing at 12 y/o. Edit: I see that the “only true way” declaration of the 2x2s plus their legalistic man’s commandments did a lot of spiritual damage to many people. There are other churches built in legalistic man’s commandments also, but not all Christian churches are so legalistic.
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2020 13:07:07 GMT -5
I agree we all likely had unique experience that led to us being atheists, but I also think that anyone that was a believer to the extent many here were, the process would have been traumatic and not a choice. As DMG said earlier, being part of the group called the Truth, you were saturated in the group in more ways than at a regular church. You were raised to believe that your group was the only one that was right and if you left you were going to hell. The friends were your life because it was frowned on to be too close to anyone from the 'world'. So not only did they lose their belief in a god, they also lost the group they had been completely submerged in. I can't imagine how hard that was for those who had professed for over 40 years. So I think it was very hard for most Christians that were devout to all of a sudden realize they no longer believed. I know the pastors that we mentor have a very hard time. Part of it is the loss of a life they knew and the other part is guilt that they 'conned' so many people. They see it that way and feel really bad about their role in it. So, it's not easy and it takes time to heal so when people say it's a choice because we didn't want to obey anymore, they are so off base that it's not even worth contemplating imo I feel you are probably right. Sometimes choices seem to be made for us, and not only in religious way either. The painful exit of leaving the 2x2s is felt by any who have spent anytime within the group. I think even the teenagers who exit after starting university studies even feel some pain. One can’t participate in what had been no-no’s without pausing for a second to realize that it was just a legalistic hang up of the 2x2s. Maybe in some ways becoming an atheists is more insular in that the 2x2s one has known or been akin to aren’t as judgmental about because they think, “Well at least they haven’t taken up with a false religion. And they’ll be back to the 2x2s.” But the 2x2s are quick to judge the exiting ones who have gone to other churches as damned to hell. You could be right. Going to another church seems to be even worse a sin than being an atheist for some. It's like you have betrayed the workers and friends and it's totally personal from their pov. Being an atheist is likely just viewed as a lack of brains lol. You can't judge stupid fools cause you can't fix stupid.... Many here quote the verses about us being fools.
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2020 13:13:22 GMT -5
Dan, I realize your remarks were made in general, but you did say, "It sounds more like you just stopped believing?" I felt that needed answering. Not sure what you mean by "disgruntled." I certainly did have an experience where I begin to see just how that whole structure of the *TRUTH" was construct by a power system of control from the top down with no recourse to anyone else for help.
Yes, I did eventually stop believing not only the *TRUTH,* -but the bible and Christianity altogether, BUT not before I did a lot researching other Christian churches, -delving into the research of the origin of the bible & history behind Christianity itself as well as non-Christian religions.
That may sound rather easy and happened rather fast but it was a long journey before I reached where I am now. None of it was done on the spur of the moment just because I was "disgruntled."
You say that for you it was "individual choice for me (nothing automatic)"--does that mean you were not born & raised in the *TRUTH" as I was? I believed, as I think all young people who "make their choice" -also do believe that it is an individual choice when they decide. I certainly knew that I did.
Now I realized it was because I was indoctrinated in that particular belief. Had my parents been Lutherans, I no doubt would have been confirmed within that religion.
As to a purpose in life, -one of the things I begin to understand about the reasons people believe in Christianity is that desire for a "hope beyond the grave."
When I was pondering that as a reason to believe, it just seemed a rather shallow selfish reason based personal desires.
I decided that wasn't for me. Surely, I could be a decent person without that.
So I am where I am now.
That's cool, we aren't much different, I also did a great deal of biblical research, but reached a completely different conclusion that you did, so I remain a professing Christian fundamentalist. I left the Truth for varied reasons, but essentially thought that they were too strict & focused on a lot of superficial things like dress codes, while not emphasizing more important things. Jesus said, "My yoke is easy", but they seemed to have made it much more difficult than it ought to be.
I'd be a Christian even without the promise of everlasting life, so its not selfish desire that motivates me. I agree that you can be a decent person without any religious influence, but I follow the example and teachings of Jesus because he epitomizes everything that's decent, and then some.
I think it's interesting you think Jesus is the example to follow when pretty much everything he said was said earlier by The Buddha. When I was exploring religions I really liked Buddhism's beliefs because they were about love and a good example to follow in life. But I never became one as I realized that they were just good ways to be in life and not required to get to heaven as I didn't believe there was an afterlife by that time. I remember thinking that reincarnation made more sense if the reason why we are here is to 'get it right' vs Christianity where someone has to shed blood to save you and give you one kick at the can to get it right. But none of it makes sense to me anymore so I live life to make it as good as I can for others and myself right now.
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2020 13:15:52 GMT -5
No STR, I didn't quit believing at 12. I fully believed that I was going to hell for making the choice of not worshiping a God that would do that. The unbelief came as I grew older and I had studied many different religions. You aren't wrong about me making a choice, but you are wrong about me making a choice not to believe. I totally believed the Truth was the only way to heaven and worshiping that God was the only way. My choice made me so scared at the time, but it had to be done. I was a 12 year old and not fully matured in critical thinking so I never took the leap into unbelief until I was older. I’m sorry I misunderstood you to say you quit professing at 12 y/o. Edit: I see that the “only true way” declaration of the 2x2s plus their legalistic man’s commandments did a lot of spiritual damage to many people. There are other churches built in legalistic man’s commandments also, but not all Christian churches are so legalistic. Yes you're right. I did quit professing which was traumatic in itself. My father was the Sunday morning elder and the first Sunday when I didn't take part was horrible. He waited what seemed a very long time for me to get up and give my testimony. When I didn't he finally gave his but it was one of the hardest things I have ever done. I was quite shy and everyone was looking at me and waiting and my dad was not tolerant of what he considered disobedience. I knew I was in trouble.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 12, 2020 13:46:16 GMT -5
I’m sorry I misunderstood you to say you quit professing at 12 y/o. Edit: I see that the “only true way” declaration of the 2x2s plus their legalistic man’s commandments did a lot of spiritual damage to many people. There are other churches built in legalistic man’s commandments also, but not all Christian churches are so legalistic. Yes you're right. I did quit professing which was traumatic in itself. My father was the Sunday morning elder and the first Sunday when I didn't take part was horrible. He waited what seemed a very long time for me to get up and give my testimony. When I didn't he finally gave his but it was one of the hardest things I have ever done. I was quite shy and everyone was looking at me and waiting and my dad was not tolerant of what he considered disobedience. I knew I was in trouble. It seems to me this horrible you'll do what I say is one of the very thing that’s broken a lot of tender spirits. I want to rail against the 2x2s for this injuring of people. It would have been nice if he could have just gave a little nod of his head to you to say, “ok.” And proceeded with his part. Then afterwards taken a calm private approach to see where you were coming from. Instead of meting out that “trouble” you’d come to expect. I’m sorry that you and anyone else suffered such legalism.
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Post by Annan on Jan 12, 2020 14:04:26 GMT -5
So the movie idea of that when a witch gets mad that whatever she thinks or says becomes true isn’t really so? If she "puts it out there", what she thinks or says has a good chance of coming true. Putting it out there simply means that she concentrates and directs her thoughts and desires (energy) which manifest her desire. Her passion fuels her words. We create our own reality, so to speak. I did a spell against someone out of vengeance over something they did to my daughter. It took me a week to undo the spell. Caused the person a lot of problems. I wasn't sorry I did the spell. I just didn't want the repercussions back on me. I still won't frequent their establishment. When my hubby divorced his first wife, she was very vengeful. She came after me every which way she could. I hated her with a passion. One day realized that she was a burning ember in my gut destroying everything and everyone in my life. Even my family avoided me during those years. I was bitter. One day I woke up and realized I wanted and needed to be happy. I needed to repair my marriage and my family. Not all of us wake up, unfortunately. And that also applies to those who are not witches. I look at it this way, some believe their god takes their requests/prayers. Witches manifest for themselves.
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2020 14:12:22 GMT -5
Yes you're right. I did quit professing which was traumatic in itself. My father was the Sunday morning elder and the first Sunday when I didn't take part was horrible. He waited what seemed a very long time for me to get up and give my testimony. When I didn't he finally gave his but it was one of the hardest things I have ever done. I was quite shy and everyone was looking at me and waiting and my dad was not tolerant of what he considered disobedience. I knew I was in trouble. It seems to me this horrible you'll do what I say is one of the very thing that’s broken a lot of tender spirits. I want to rail against the 2x2s for this injuring of people. It would have been nice if he could have just gave a little nod of his head to you to say, “ok.” And proceeded with his part. Then afterwards taken a calm private approach to see where you were coming from. Instead of meting out that “trouble” you’d come to expect. I’m sorry that you and anyone else suffered such legalism. At the time I didn't know anything different. I always thought it was me and that I deserved it. I asked too many questions, I didn't understand well enough etc. I never questioned why the friends didn't want their kids around me when I quit professing. I felt like it was only what I deserved. Later looking back of course I realize it probably wasn't as much about me as them and their fears.
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2020 14:15:21 GMT -5
So the movie idea of that when a witch gets mad that whatever she thinks or says becomes true isn’t really so? If she "puts it out there", what she thinks or says has a good chance of coming true. Putting it out there simply means that she concentrates and directs her thoughts and desires (energy) which manifest her desire. Her passion fuels her words. We create our own reality, so to speak. I did a spell against someone out of vengeance over something they did to my daughter. It took me a week to undo the spell. Caused the person a lot of problems. I wasn't sorry I did the spell. I just didn't want the repercussions back on me. I still won't frequent their establishment. When my hubby divorced his first wife, she was very vengeful. She came after me every which way she could. I hated her with a passion. One day realized that she was a burning ember in my gut destroying everything and everyone in my life. Even my family avoided me during those years. I was bitter. One day I woke up and realized I wanted and needed to be happy. I needed to repair my marriage and my family. Not all of us wake up, unfortunately. And that also applies to those who are not witches. I look at it this way, some believe their god takes their requests/prayers. Witches manifest for themselves. Sounds like I was lucky with my ex's new wife then! We are still good friends and I share my grandchildren with their step grandmother. My ex is gone now so it's just us ex wives left.
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Post by nathan on Jan 12, 2020 19:33:08 GMT -5
YOU have NO POWER over me! Don't even TRY it. You are wasting your time and energy. I tell you something... The house we lived in for 20 yrs was FILLED with demons and ghost beings, they appeared and tortured my wife but they NEVER touch me once! So, I will say this your SPELLS will NOT work on me, it might backfire on you, because I have a MUCH higher power living in me, than the little magic that you have.
Be very careful, with the dark/black magic power you play with, they will come back and bite you in the A** Don't PLAY with fire! you will get burned badly. You don't KNOW what you get yourself into, it's NOT fun and game as teenagers and people think. The fallen angels/Satan/demons own your soul forever, unless you ask Christ/God to deliver from the DARKNESS of HELL. ONLY Christ can help you. I was there so, I KNOW these things first hand experience.
My mother used to summon the dead spirits to speak to her and tell her about her future plans... Yes, I know about Black magic. I was possessed by demonic beings before I met the workers. After I professed God fills me His Holy Spirit those demonic spirits LEFT me ASAP, the workers didn't know these things had happened to me because I never told them.
Wow! You make some strong assumptions about me, Nathan. I am not vengeful. I take my spellwork VERY seriously. I am a healer. If I were to sink to the level of blasting every Tom, Dick, and Nathan that pisses me off, I'd lose my healing abilities. One rule of thumb for witches says you get back what you put out three times over. I interpret that to mean that my intent affects me mind, body, and soul. I put myself in jeopardy for no one, not even you. Yeah. I blow my stack now and then, but it never involves spellwork. What I said was a joke. I didn't look like a joke to me when you wrote it. It was short and no funny face behind it. I am very happy to hear that you are a healer and NOT to use your little power of spells to harm people. There are BAD witches out there! they use there given power to harm people.
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