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Post by mountain on Jun 17, 2022 17:44:58 GMT -5
Here's how the prophet Isaiah put it in chapter 53.
Isaiah 53
King James Version
53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
It's pretty clear. Jesus was God's offering for our sins. It pleased God to bruise him, he hath put him to grief, making his soul an offering for sin.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 19, 2024 1:52:01 GMT -5
Nice, good scriptures and truthful post! Mountain. šIt was the Will and plan of God and Christ for Jesus to suffer or die the Second Death/Seperation from Godās presence for our sins on Calvary so, us believers will NOT be separated from God the Father because of our own sins.
Jesus took our place/ Tasted the Second Death! āMy God, my God why, has thou forsaken me? Jesus paid the Ultimate ransom price on Calvaryās for ALL of the sins we have committed in this life.
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Post by mountain on Sept 19, 2024 3:24:29 GMT -5
Nice, good scriptures and truthful post! Mountain. šIt was the Will and plan of God and Christ for Jesus to suffer or die the Second Death/Seperation from Godās presence for our sins on Calvary so, us believers will NOT be separated from God the Father because of our own sins. Jesus took our place/ Tasted the Second Death! āMy God, my God why, has thou forsaken me? Jesus paid the Ultimate ransom price on Calvaryās for ALL of the sins we have committed in this life. That's only Part 1 of the deal Nathan. We must follow Jesus in the way, truth and life in order to come to the Father who is fully God Almighty. This is Part 2, which makes Part 1 effective. John 3 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son (Part 1), that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (Part 2). God planned for the sacrifice of his only begotten human being son to deal with our sins, IF, we believe in Jesus. Belief means to follow Jesus in the way, truth and life that leads to God who is the Father. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 19, 2024 3:56:16 GMT -5
Nice, good scriptures and truthful post! Mountain. šIt was the Will and plan of God and Christ for Jesus to suffer or die the Second Death/Seperation from Godās presence for our sins on Calvary so, us believers will NOT be separated from God the Father because of our own sins. Jesus took our place/ Tasted the Second Death! āMy God, my God why, has thou forsaken me? Jesus paid the Ultimate ransom price on Calvaryās for ALL of the sins we have committed in this life. That's only Part 1 of the deal Nathan. We must follow Jesus in the way, truth and life in order to come to the Father who is fully God Almighty. This is Part 2, which makes Part 1 effective. John 3 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son (Part 1), that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (Part 2). God planned for the sacrifice of his only begotten human being son to deal with our sins, IF, we believe in Jesus. Belief means to follow Jesus in the way, truth and life that leads to God who is the Father. Yep, I agreeā¦ that is what I am trying to doā¦ to follow Jesus Christ New Testament teachings the whole package! Not partial teachings of Jesus. |
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Post by mountain on Sept 19, 2024 14:22:46 GMT -5
That's only Part 1 of the deal Nathan. We must follow Jesus in the way, truth and life in order to come to the Father who is fully God Almighty. This is Part 2, which makes Part 1 effective. John 3 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son (Part 1), that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (Part 2). God planned for the sacrifice of his only begotten human being son to deal with our sins, IF, we believe in Jesus. Belief means to follow Jesus in the way, truth and life that leads to God who is the Father. Yep, I agreeā¦ that is what I am trying to doā¦ to follow Jesus Christ New Testament teachings the whole package! Not partial teachings of Jesus. What about 'add ons,' ie that which scripture clearly does not state? |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 19, 2024 14:49:26 GMT -5
Yep, I agreeā¦ that is what I am trying to doā¦ to follow Jesus Christ New Testament teachings the whole package! Not partial teachings of Jesus. What about 'add ons,' ie that which scripture clearly does not state? Put your thinking cap on! You were a 2x2 for a long time and you believed the āadd oneā for MANY years. Then you changed your belief and became anti-2x2 believer, anti-Jesus Christ New Testament 2x2 Itinerant ministry and the worship Trinity/Triune God worship in the homes of believers for Christās Passover/Emblems. |
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Post by mountain on Sept 19, 2024 15:49:29 GMT -5
What about 'add ons,' ie that which scripture clearly does not state? Put your thinking cap on! You were a 2x2 for a long time and you believed the āadd oneā for MANY years. Then you changed your belief and became anti-2x2 believer, anti-Jesus Christ New Testament 2x2 Itinerant ministry and the worship Trinity/Triune God worship in the homes of believers for Christās Passover/Emblems. The add ons that I had in mind are things like: Jesus is God Jesus is part of a triune God Jesus is God the Son These are strong enough delusions to distract the unwary from believing that Jesus is the only begotten human being 'son of God' in whom the scripture clearly state we are to believe in. Give the 2x2s credit on this one. They have that right. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 19, 2024 16:20:29 GMT -5
Put your thinking cap on! You were a 2x2 for a long time and you believed the āadd oneā for MANY years. Then you changed your belief and became anti-2x2 believer, anti-Jesus Christ New Testament 2x2 Itinerant ministry and the worship Trinity/Triune God worship in the homes of believers for Christās Passover/Emblems. The add ons that I had in mind are things like: Jesus is God Jesus is part of a triune God Jesus is God the Son These are strong enough delusions to distract the unwary from believing that Jesus is the only begotten human being 'son of God' in whom the scripture clearly state we are to believe in. Give the 2x2s credit on this one. They have that right. If the current 2x2s are right, then you believe the early days 2x2 workers and the friends were ALL wrong from 1898-1960s false believers/Christians for believing and taught the Trinity/Jesus is God the Christ NOT God the Father? False teachings began to teach among the 2x2s, the Trinity is RCC heresy/devilās doctrine so, donāt accept or believe it. The friends believe in the words of the overseers, the senior workers and the younger workers without checking out these false teachings out for themselves, they pass on to the friends for 75 years= They became and known as Anti-Trinity believers in the world of Christianity denominations. Did you KNOW when you were a 2x2 you worship the TrinityTriune Godhead every Sunday morning! and partake the emblems you didnāt even know or understand it. MANY workers and the friends donāt know they are worshipping the Godhead/Trinity= God the Father, Christ the Lord God and Savior, and the Holy Spirit God every Sunday morning worship meetings and they donāt even KNOW or understand that either. The Trinity Godhead that was the early days workers who set up the Sunday morning worship for the workers and the friends to come together to worship God the Father, Christ our Savior and the Holy Spirit! The current 2x2s donāt believe in the Trinity but they worship them on every Sunday morning around the world! Talking about confusion. Most of the 2x2s donāt believe in the Trinity and Jesus is NOT God, then they must eradicate/do away with the Sunday morning worship with the emblems because that is contradiction of the New Testament of Jesus foundation for the Church and ministry. |
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Post by mountain on Sept 24, 2024 12:25:22 GMT -5
The add ons that I had in mind are things like: Jesus is God Jesus is part of a triune God Jesus is God the Son These are strong enough delusions to distract the unwary from believing that Jesus is the only begotten human being 'son of God' in whom the scripture clearly state we are to believe in. Give the 2x2s credit on this one. They have that right. If the current 2x2s are right, then you believe the early days 2x2 workers and the friends were ALL wrong from 1898-1960s false believers/Christians for believing and taught the Trinity/Jesus is God the Christ NOT God the Father? False teachings began to teach among the 2x2s, the Trinity is RCC heresy/devilās doctrine so, donāt accept or believe it. The friends believe in the words of the overseers, the senior workers and the younger workers without checking out these false teachings out for themselves, they pass on to the friends for 75 years= They became and known as Anti-Trinity believers in the world of Christianity denominations. Did you KNOW when you were a 2x2 you worship the TrinityTriune Godhead every Sunday morning! and partake the emblems you didnāt even know or understand it. MANY workers and the friends donāt know they are worshipping the Godhead/Trinity= God the Father, Christ the Lord God and Savior, and the Holy Spirit God every Sunday morning worship meetings and they donāt even KNOW or understand that either. The Trinity Godhead that was the early days workers who set up the Sunday morning worship for the workers and the friends to come together to worship God the Father, Christ our Savior and the Holy Spirit! The current 2x2s donāt believe in the Trinity but they worship them on every Sunday morning around the world! Talking about confusion. Most of the 2x2s donāt believe in the Trinity and Jesus is NOT God, then they must eradicate/do away with the Sunday morning worship with the emblems because that is contradiction of the New Testament of Jesus foundation for the Church and ministry. Sorry Nathan....I think I got to the end of the 2nd paragraph and then gave up. It is clear you have taken a leaf out of my book and are trying to wind me up with nonsense. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 24, 2024 12:57:30 GMT -5
If the current 2x2s are right, then you believe the early days 2x2 workers and the friends were ALL wrong from 1898-1960s false believers/Christians for believing and taught the Trinity/Jesus is God the Christ NOT God the Father? False teachings began to teach among the 2x2s, the Trinity is RCC heresy/devilās doctrine so, donāt accept or believe it. The friends believe in the words of the overseers, the senior workers and the younger workers without checking out these false teachings out for themselves, they pass on to the friends for 75 years= They became and known as Anti-Trinity believers in the world of Christianity denominations. Did you KNOW when you were a 2x2 you worship the TrinityTriune Godhead every Sunday morning! and partake the emblems you didnāt even know or understand it. MANY workers and the friends donāt know they are worshipping the Godhead/Trinity= God the Father, Christ the Lord God and Savior, and the Holy Spirit God every Sunday morning worship meetings and they donāt even KNOW or understand that either. The Trinity Godhead that was the early days workers who set up the Sunday morning worship for the workers and the friends to come together to worship God the Father, Christ our Savior and the Holy Spirit! The current 2x2s donāt believe in the Trinity but they worship them on every Sunday morning around the world! Talking about confusion. Most of the 2x2s donāt believe in the Trinity and Jesus is NOT God, then they must eradicate/do away with the Sunday morning worship with the emblems because that is contradiction of the New Testament of Jesus foundation for the Church and ministry. Sorry Nathan....I think I got to the end of the 2nd paragraph and then gave up. It is clear you have taken a leaf out of my book and are trying to wind me up with nonsense. You, fixit, and many 2x2s have been taught incorrectly or half truth on the Godhead/ Jesus is NOT God and have become anti-Trinity by the workers false teachings for 70 years and donāt KNOW it. There are More workers and the friends like Reborn from Alaska speaking out in public on believing Jesus is part of the Godhead/Triune God or the Trinity these days. Their eyes are opened because they have prayed and asking God and Christ to reveal the Truth on the Godhead to them and they did reveal who they are to them. This anti-Trinity doctrine and Jesus is NOT God like unto the Father or NOT part of the Godhead can be fixed through prayers and meditation like SharonW. has told us about her experienced on TMB a few years back on TMB. SharonW shared her testimony revelation on Jesus is God; part of the Godhead/Triune God was truly astounding and amazing to read. Dan on here left the 2x2 fellowship because the workers rejected Jesus is NOT part of the Godhead but they worship Him on the level as God the Father and Holy Spirit on every Sunday morning around the world. Dan has an amazing understanding of the Godhead and Jesus is God/Divine and itās alright to worship Christ/God Jesus on the same level as the Godhead= Father, Christ and Holy Spirit. |
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Post by mountain on Sept 25, 2024 17:51:08 GMT -5
Sorry Nathan....I think I got to the end of the 2nd paragraph and then gave up. It is clear you have taken a leaf out of my book and are trying to wind me up with nonsense. You, fixit, and many 2x2s have been taught incorrectly or half truth on the Godhead/ Jesus is NOT God and have become anti-Trinity by the workers false teachings for 70 years and donāt KNOW it. There are More workers and the friends like Reborn from Alaska speaking out in public on believing Jesus is part of the Godhead/Triune God or the Trinity these days. Their eyes are opened because they have prayed and asking God and Christ to reveal the Truth on the Godhead to them and they did reveal who they are to them. This anti-Trinity doctrine and Jesus is NOT God like unto the Father or NOT part of the Godhead can be fixed through prayers and meditation like SharonW. has told us about her experienced on TMB a few years back on TMB. SharonW shared her testimony revelation on Jesus is God; part of the Godhead/Triune God was truly astounding and amazing to read. Dan on here left the 2x2 fellowship because the workers rejected Jesus is NOT part of the Godhead but they worship Him on the level as God the Father and Holy Spirit on every Sunday morning around the world. Dan has an amazing understanding of the Godhead and Jesus is God/Divine and itās alright to worship Christ/God Jesus on the same level as the Godhead= Father, Christ and Holy Spirit. Nathan, The Trinity is a FALSE God concocted by Man under the guidance of the arch father of lies, satan himself. It is one of many deceptions to cause people to see another god rather than see the one true God and his only begotten human being son Jesus, an understanding of which is directly linked to eternal life itself. The whole thing is simple, but our human minds are easily led away from the simplicity of Christ by our wayward human nature which is so drawn into imagination, rather than the simplicity of revelation. From the beginning of the Bible until the end, God is the Father and the Father is God. Any time Jesus referred to the Father he was referring to God and vice versa. The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. Jesus clearly tells us the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (or God). He also tells us that the Word of God is the Father's word (aka God's word). Jesus is only the Word of God through messengership. He is the human being son of God raised up by God to show us the way, truth and life which leads to the Father/God. Jesus was and still is fully man (fully man) who is sitting at the right hand of his God and your God, his Father and your Father, in his glorified human body, fulfilling the will of his God and Father. It is a human being Jesus who will return to Earth, though in his glorified body, the same body which all true believers will inherit. |
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Post by tulip2 on Sept 25, 2024 19:48:33 GMT -5
From the beginning of the Bible until the end, God is the Father and the Father is God. Any time Jesus referred to the Father he was referring to God and vice versa. The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. Jesus clearly tells us the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (or God). He also tells us that the Word of God is the Father's word (aka God's word). Jesus is only the Word of God through messengership. He is the human being son of God raised up by God to show us the way, truth and life which leads to the Father/God. Jesus was and still is fully man (fully man) who is sitting at the right hand of his God and your God, his Father and your Father, in his glorified human body, fulfilling the will of his God and Father. It is a human being Jesus who will return to Earth, though in his glorified body, the same body which all true believers will inherit. Some concerns, mountain (Robert?, from UK I think I read somewhere). You wrote "He is the human being son of God raised up by God to show us the way, truth and life which leads to the Father/God." In the biblical (holy) scriptures, Jesus IS the way to our Father/God. Doctrine of the 2x2 group (probably evolved over the years - my guess would be largely the result of some early powerful and strong but doctrinally unsound overseers in the US) is that Jesus came to "show us the way to heaven", meaning by implication the pattern for us to strive to emulate. I know some 2x2s consider that on "judgement day", if we've "done our best" (i.e. followed worker's guidelines, rules, instructions) then God will reward that by "topping up" where our efforts fall short of Jesus' example, and we'll (hopefully!) get a pass into heaven. Jesus himself told us that "I AM the way". Huge implications in that, from OT scripture. His death on the cross carries all the meaning and power that Paul wrote in 2Corinthians 5 "We implore you on Christās behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." Second, you wrote "Jesus was and still is fully man (fully man) who is sitting at the right hand of his God and your God, his Father and your Father, in his glorified human body". Yes, there is now (since the ascension, 40 days after the crucifixion) a man in heaven (proof text 1Timothy 2:5, for example). But before this, there was Jesus (divine Son of God) who came from heaven to be the Saviour, the sin offering that Paul wrote about so clearly (as in 2Corinthians 5, for example). We find too that this divine Jesus was present at creation, and throughout the OT. Scripture is clear on Jesus, fully divine and fully man. There's little or no point in arguing this with all the beliefs and theories of man (and women  ). I simply say, would I trust any man, even the heretical created "perfect man" of heresies like Arianism) for my salvation? No, my faith is in the risen Saviour, divine Son of God who came from heaven the spotless lamb of God, and has returned to heaven as the "first fruits" of the resurrection, the first perfect (fully righteous) man(/woman) in heaven! Him I can believe. Praise Him!! |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 25, 2024 21:02:28 GMT -5
From the beginning of the Bible until the end, God is the Father and the Father is God. Any time Jesus referred to the Father he was referring to God and vice versa. The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. Jesus clearly tells us the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (or God). He also tells us that the Word of God is the Father's word (aka God's word). Jesus is only the Word of God through messengership. He is the human being son of God raised up by God to show us the way, truth and life which leads to the Father/God. Jesus was and still is fully man (fully man) who is sitting at the right hand of his God and your God, his Father and your Father, in his glorified human body, fulfilling the will of his God and Father. It is a human being Jesus who will return to Earth, though in his glorified body, the same body which all true believers will inherit. Some concerns, mountain (Robert?, from UK I think I read somewhere). You wrote "He is the human being son of God raised up by God to show us the way, truth and life which leads to the Father/God." In the biblical (holy) scriptures, Jesus IS the way to our Father/God. Doctrine of the 2x2 group (probably evolved over the years - my guess would be largely the result of some early powerful and strong but doctrinally unsound overseers in the US) is that Jesus came to "show us the way to heaven", meaning by implication the pattern for us to strive to emulate. I know some 2x2s consider that on "judgement day", if we've "done our best" (i.e. followed worker's guidelines, rules, instructions) then God will reward that by "topping up" where our efforts fall short of Jesus' example, and we'll (hopefully!) get a pass into heaven. Jesus himself told us that "I AM the way". Huge implications in that, from OT scripture. His death on the cross carries all the meaning and power that Paul wrote in 2Corinthians 5 "We implore you on Christās behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." Second, you wrote "Jesus was and still is fully man (fully man) who is sitting at the right hand of his God and your God, his Father and your Father, in his glorified human body". Yes, there is now (since the ascension, 40 days after the crucifixion) a man in heaven (proof text 1Timothy 2:5, for example). But before this, there was Jesus (divine Son of God) who came from heaven to be the Saviour, the sin offering that Paul wrote about so clearly (as in 2Corinthians 5, for example). We find too that this divine Jesus was present at creation, and throughout the OT. Scripture is clear on Jesus, fully divine and fully man. There's little or no point in arguing this with all the beliefs and theories of man (and women ). I simply say, would I trust any man, even the heretical created "perfect man" of heresies like Arianism) for my salvation? No, my faith is in the risen Saviour, divine Son of God who came from heaven the spotless lamb of God, and has returned to heaven as the "first fruits" of the resurrection, the first perfect (fully righteous) man(/woman) in heaven! Him I can believe. Praise Him!! And you think that's not the pagan-catholic invention??? |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 25, 2024 22:03:55 GMT -5
Some concerns, mountain (Robert?, from UK I think I read somewhere). You wrote "He is the human being son of God raised up by God to show us the way, truth and life which leads to the Father/God." In the biblical (holy) scriptures, Jesus IS the way to our Father/God. Doctrine of the 2x2 group (probably evolved over the years - my guess would be largely the result of some early powerful and strong but doctrinally unsound overseers in the US) is that Jesus came to "show us the way to heaven", meaning by implication the pattern for us to strive to emulate. I know some 2x2s consider that on "judgement day", if we've "done our best" (i.e. followed worker's guidelines, rules, instructions) then God will reward that by "topping up" where our efforts fall short of Jesus' example, and we'll (hopefully!) get a pass into heaven. Jesus himself told us that "I AM the way". Huge implications in that, from OT scripture. His death on the cross carries all the meaning and power that Paul wrote in 2Corinthians 5 "We implore you on Christās behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." Second, you wrote "Jesus was and still is fully man (fully man) who is sitting at the right hand of his God and your God, his Father and your Father, in his glorified human body". Yes, there is now (since the ascension, 40 days after the crucifixion) a man in heaven (proof text 1Timothy 2:5, for example). But before this, there was Jesus (divine Son of God) who came from heaven to be the Saviour, the sin offering that Paul wrote about so clearly (as in 2Corinthians 5, for example). We find too that this divine Jesus was present at creation, and throughout the OT. Scripture is clear on Jesus, fully divine and fully man. There's little or no point in arguing this with all the beliefs and theories of man (and women ). I simply say, would I trust any man, even the heretical created "perfect man" of heresies like Arianism) for my salvation? No, my faith is in the risen Saviour, divine Son of God who came from heaven the spotless lamb of God, and has returned to heaven as the "first fruits" of the resurrection, the first perfect (fully righteous) man(/woman) in heaven! Him I can believe. Praise Him!! And you think that's not the pagan-catholic invention??? The Trinity is NOT the RCC invention doctrine, they just coined the word āTRINITYā in the 2nd century to describe the Godhead= God the Father, Christ Jesus our Lord God Savior and the Holy Spirit. That is why the word āTrinityā NOT in the Bible, it was coined around 2nd century of the disciples of the 1st century apostles. The concept of the Godhead/Trinity is found in Genesis chapters1-2 to the book of revelation. I John 5:7-8 For there are THREE that bear record in heaven God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit. Jesus explained the 3 beings in ONE Godhead in heaven and each of their functions to the 12 apostles in John chapters 14-17. The pagans got the idea of 3 supreme beings from the Godhead, the Trinity is Eternal, they existed long before there were any pagans religions come into existence. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 25, 2024 22:46:07 GMT -5
And you think that's not the pagan-catholic invention??? The Trinity is NOT the RCC invention doctrine, they just coined the word āTRINITYā in the 2nd century to describe the Godhead= God the Father, Christ Jesus our Lord God Savior and the Holy Spirit. That is why the word āTrinityā NOT in the Bible, it was coined around 2nd century of the disciples of the 1st century apostles. The concept of the Godhead/Trinity is found in Genesis chapters1-2 to the book of revelation. I John 5:7-8 For there are THREE that bear record in heaven God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit. Jesus explained the 3 beings in ONE Godhead in heaven and each of their functions to the 12 apostles in John chapters 14-17. The pagans got the idea of 3 supreme beings from the Godhead, the Trinity is Eternal, they existed long before there were any pagans religions come into existence. Don't bother, Nathan. That wasn't for you. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 25, 2024 23:04:20 GMT -5
The Trinity is NOT the RCC invention doctrine, they just coined the word āTRINITYā in the 2nd century to describe the Godhead= God the Father, Christ Jesus our Lord God Savior and the Holy Spirit. That is why the word āTrinityā NOT in the Bible, it was coined around 2nd century of the disciples of the 1st century apostles. The concept of the Godhead/Trinity is found in Genesis chapters1-2 to the book of revelation. I John 5:7-8 For there are THREE that bear record in heaven God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit. Jesus explained the 3 beings in ONE Godhead in heaven and each of their functions to the 12 apostles in John chapters 14-17. The pagans got the idea of 3 supreme beings from the Godhead, the Trinity is Eternal, they existed long before there were any pagans religions come into existence. Don't bother, Nathan. That wasn't for you. Just try to be helpful. š |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 26, 2024 1:08:23 GMT -5
Don't bother, Nathan. That wasn't for you. Just try to be helpful. š You already shared your opinion previously. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 26, 2024 1:10:30 GMT -5
Just try to be helpful. š You already shared your opinion previously. It worth to repeat it again in a different angle, for new readers. This is subject is endless, it gets better and better as we discuss it. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 26, 2024 1:12:16 GMT -5
You already shared your opinion previously. It worth to repeat it again, for new readers. I forgot. We had 20 new readers in the last 10 minutes. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 26, 2024 1:16:47 GMT -5
It worth to repeat it again, for new readers. I forgot. We had 20 new readers in the last 10 minutes. No, there are more than that in the last 24 hrs and the count is 1184 unregistered guests, and registered members is 21ā¦ TMB is very famous and well known for over 20 years by workers, friends, exes and people who want information, news on different topics are posted on here. That is one of the reasons I am hanging around and post on here. Good place to share information, teachings that people donāt hear in the gospel meetings, Sunday morning worship meetings, Wed Night Bible studies, special meetings, or at conventions.š The TMB is way ahead of its time! We discuss all kinds of topics, questions and so on, that the workers donāt like for you to ask them or they KNOW the answers to. š |
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Post by mountain on Sept 26, 2024 8:51:14 GMT -5
From the beginning of the Bible until the end, God is the Father and the Father is God. Any time Jesus referred to the Father he was referring to God and vice versa. The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. Jesus clearly tells us the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (or God). He also tells us that the Word of God is the Father's word (aka God's word). Jesus is only the Word of God through messengership. He is the human being son of God raised up by God to show us the way, truth and life which leads to the Father/God. Jesus was and still is fully man (fully man) who is sitting at the right hand of his God and your God, his Father and your Father, in his glorified human body, fulfilling the will of his God and Father. It is a human being Jesus who will return to Earth, though in his glorified body, the same body which all true believers will inherit. Some concerns, mountain (Robert?, from UK I think I read somewhere). You wrote "He is the human being son of God raised up by God to show us the way, truth and life which leads to the Father/God." In the biblical (holy) scriptures, Jesus IS the way to our Father/God. Doctrine of the 2x2 group (probably evolved over the years - my guess would be largely the result of some early powerful and strong but doctrinally unsound overseers in the US) is that Jesus came to "show us the way to heaven", meaning by implication the pattern for us to strive to emulate. I know some 2x2s consider that on "judgement day", if we've "done our best" (i.e. followed worker's guidelines, rules, instructions) then God will reward that by "topping up" where our efforts fall short of Jesus' example, and we'll (hopefully!) get a pass into heaven. Jesus himself told us that "I AM the way". Huge implications in that, from OT scripture. His death on the cross carries all the meaning and power that Paul wrote in 2Corinthians 5 "We implore you on Christās behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." Let's put 2x2ism to one side, but with the caveat it isn't 100% bad or wrong. It does have some things right. Jesus did indeed tell us 'I am the Way, etc.' What does that mean? He added 'no man comes to the Father but through me!' Jesus invited his disciples and others to 'Follow me!' What does that mean exactly? Look no further than the disciples. It meant they followed him in his way, his truth and his life....even to the death, in order to come to the Father. We are to die daily to our own will in order to let Christ control us. I could go on endlessly picking verses from scripture which supports this line of thinking. Our lives are no longer our own. They have been bought with a huge price to absolve our sins, without which we could never be acceptable to the Father. That is Jesus's bit. Our bit is to follow in his footsteps in the same way as the original Christians did. One big mistake modern Christians make is in thinking that Jesus did everything for us to enable us to get eternal life. Wrong. Jesus did everything he could for us in order that we can have eternal life. We still have a part to play. That is in believing in Jesus the Son of God. Believing is much more than a mere acknowledgement, but is actively following in the footsteps of Jesus, just as the early Christians did. We are reconciled to God 1) by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, 2) activating our chance of salvation by following the way, truth and life of Christ in our lives.
Tough to take isn't it?
Second, you wrote "Jesus was and still is fully man (fully man) who is sitting at the right hand of his God and your God, his Father and your Father, in his glorified human body". Yes, there is now (since the ascension, 40 days after the crucifixion) a man in heaven (proof text 1Timothy 2:5, for example). But before this, there was Jesus (divine Son of God) who came from heaven to be the Saviour, the sin offering that Paul wrote about so clearly (as in 2Corinthians 5, for example). We find too that this divine Jesus was present at creation, and throughout the OT. Scripture is clear on Jesus, fully divine and fully man. There's little or no point in arguing this with all the beliefs and theories of man (and women ). I simply say, would I trust any man, even the heretical created "perfect man" of heresies like Arianism) for my salvation? No, my faith is in the risen Saviour, divine Son of God who came from heaven the spotless lamb of God, and has returned to heaven as the "first fruits" of the resurrection, the first perfect (fully righteous) man(/woman) in heaven! Him I can believe. Praise Him!! Jesus did NOT exist before his conception and birth. However, from the beginning he existed very much in the mind and plan of God from before Creation. It was through the mind and plan of God for the future Jesus that he created the World and the Universe. It was by his plan for Jesus.
I am assuming we are using the Holy Bible, the words of God and Jesus. in forming our beliefs. You are throwing the word 'divine' about like confetti. In a couple of short paragraphs you have used the word 'divine' on four occasions, each trying to reinforce your message, yet the term is used only three times in the entirety of the Bible and on no occasion to describe God, Jesus or any other being. God is an Holy God, not a divine one within the general understanding. God wants to draw close to us by us becoming holy as he is holy. The term divine originates from pagan, false gods. It has no place with the God of Heaven. It is a term meaning to seek out. That is why Peter (twice user of the term) asks us to partake (seek out) the divine (hidden) nature of God. This infers that ALL true followers of Christ are themselves 'divine' if they partake of God's Holy nature through his Holy Spirit. Please do your homework of the term divine. God describes himself regularly as being Holy, as does Jesus (who asks us to be Holy as God is Holy). In no place does God describe himself as being divine. Neither does he describe his son as being divine. God never mentions the term, nor does Jesus. In fact divination and its derivatives are more often proscribed in the Bible for their association with unfamiliar spirits, etc. The term is more associated with the occult that with God, but from your words it seems there is no difference between the two.
Stick with scripture (KJV if possible) and with the words of God, Jesus and their true followers. Use the tern 'divine' with the same regularity AND CONTEXT that you find in the Bible. Replace it with the correct term 'Holy' and you will do well. You will get back on the scriptural path. The term 'divine' is something that comes from another source and is designed to throw you off the path of true righteousness.
Finally, No my name is not Robert. However you have got the first two letters correct. Before you abandon the use of the term 'divine,' perhaps you could divine (seek out) the remaining letters?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 26, 2024 18:09:18 GMT -5
I forgot. We had 20 new readers in the last 10 minutes. No, there are more than that in the last 24 hrs and the count is 1184 unregistered guests, and registered members is 21ā¦ TMB is very famous and well known for over 20 years by workers, friends, exes and people who want information, news on different topics are posted on here. That is one of the reasons I am hanging around and post on here. Good place to share information, teachings that people donāt hear in the gospel meetings, Sunday morning worship meetings, Wed Night Bible studies, special meetings, or at conventions.šThe TMB is way ahead of its time! We discuss all kinds of topics, questions and so on, that the workers donāt like for you to ask them or they KNOW the answers to. š We know. It's all about YOU -- trying to make yourself a new profit for the 2x2's who won't listen to you. You commandeer this board to preach your foolishness because you have nowhere else to get the attention you're looking for. |
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Post by Annan on Sept 27, 2024 7:01:19 GMT -5
No, there are more than that in the last 24 hrs and the count is 1184 unregistered guests, and registered members is 21ā¦ TMB is very famous and well known for over 20 years by workers, friends, exes and people who want information, news on different topics are posted on here. That is one of the reasons I am hanging around and post on here. Good place to share information, teachings that people donāt hear in the gospel meetings, Sunday morning worship meetings, Wed Night Bible studies, special meetings, or at conventions.šThe TMB is way ahead of its time! We discuss all kinds of topics, questions and so on, that the workers donāt like for you to ask them or they KNOW the answers to. š We know. It's all about YOU -- trying to make yourself a new profit for the 2x2's who won't listen to you. You commandeer this board to preach your foolishness because you have nowhere else to get the attention you're looking for. Please let me add this: PLEASE TAKE PITY ON NATIE. His belief is all he has. Without it, he feels like a failure. In his culture, image is everything. Being a gas sniffer is a lowly status and brings him shame. His lies are out of desperation to make something of himself. Can't argue with an invisible being he claims has chosen him above all others. Take pity on him, please. His delusions are heartbreaking. |
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Post by tulip2 on Sept 27, 2024 7:22:31 GMT -5
Let's put 2x2ism to one side, but with the caveat it isn't 100% bad or wrong. It does have some things right. Jesus did indeed tell us 'I am the Way, etc.' What does that mean? He added 'no man comes to the Father but through me!' Jesus invited his disciples and others to 'Follow me!' What does that mean exactly? Look no further than the disciples. It meant they followed him in his way, his truth and his life....even to the death, in order to come to the Father. We are to die daily to our own will in order to let Christ control us. I could go on endlessly picking verses from scripture which supports this line of thinking. Our lives are no longer our own. They have been bought with a huge price to absolve our sins, without which we could never be acceptable to the Father. That is Jesus's bit. Our bit is to follow in his footsteps in the same way as the original Christians did. One big mistake modern Christians make is in thinking that Jesus did everything for us to enable us to get eternal life. Wrong. Jesus did everything he could for us in order that we can have eternal life. We still have a part to play. That is in believing in Jesus the Son of God. Believing is much more than a mere acknowledgement, but is actively following in the footsteps of Jesus, just as the early Christians did. We are reconciled to God 1) by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, 2) activating our chance of salvation by following the way, truth and life of Christ in our lives.
Tough to take isn't it? An impressive response mountain. Youāve got it all figured out, which must be intellectually very satisfying and give you great peace of mind. Here are a few questions and responses. Q. With such an assertive line of reasoning, are you able to maintain an open mind in case, just on the off chance, something you have concluded does not quite align with Godās truth/wisdom in the bible? The reason I ask this, and itās nothing personal because I donāt know you at all, is that over long years we have observed a serious flaw in human (used to include manās, womanās and everything elseās) reasoning/logic based on a confidence in our intellectual abilities to decide on some belief as incontrovertibly true ā according to us. But a belief not aligned with Godās truth, which human pride holds us to. Atheism is one example. Nathanās beliefs on hollow Venus are another. If only he had an open mind for the relevant correction of this strange but undoubtedly deeply held conviction he has. Alas! Q. How are you going with following in Christās footsteps? From knowing something of human nature I would expect when you first had that epiphany of the need to follow Jesus, you started a long way from where you should have been. Undoubtedly much closer know, so my question really is, how close is close enough and what if, at that last dying moment you have not quite got the footsteps lined up? Iām not being a smart-alec here, itās just in my walk with God Iāve never believed as you do in this regard, and thatās the genuine query I would not be comfortable with feeling I knew the answer to (in short, I would have no confidence in my reasoning of what was the pass standard, and where I would stand before my God if I was to come short even by one skerrick from His standard of righteousness). Q. Last one on this topic, which really boils down to salvation by grace, or salvation by our works or merit or effort (following Jesusā example). Do you accept as divinely inspired (divinely = godly) the epistles of Paul, where he espouses the gospel of salvation by grace through faith not of works lest any should boast? Or do you discount Paulās teaching in comparison with the red-letter words of Jesus? Agree with you that 2x2ism isn't 100% bad or wrong. Itās led me to Christ, and I trust you and many others. And it allows for a wide spectrum of beliefs and understandings; in short, itās a ābroad churchā in this regard . And thatās good in my book, as it allows growth (with that open mindedness to God through being open to teaching and correction by the Holy Spirit). I know Iām in no way a finished product, so much to go (in effect, an unlimited amount when you consider the creation and universe we live in). Also agree āWe are to die daily to our own will in order to let Christ control us.ā That for me is āour bitā. āTough to take isn't it?ā ā no, I donāt agree except at times when taking my own prideful, selfish and self-centred way rises up. But love for God and humility in knowing He is on the throne and not any one of us kind-of makes the dying to self and allowing God to control the greater joy and blessing. So sincerely, no not tough in the way I think you are suggesting. Jesus did NOT exist before his conception and birth. However, from the beginning he existed very much in the mind and plan of God from before Creation. It was through the mind and plan of God for the future Jesus that he created the World and the Universe. It was by his plan for Jesus.
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Stick with scripture (KJV if possible) and with the words of God, Jesus and their true followers. Use the term 'divine' with the same regularity AND CONTEXT that you find in the Bible. Replace it with the correct term 'Holy' and you will do well. You will get back on the scriptural path. The term 'divine' is something that comes from another source and is designed to throw you off the path of true righteousness. As I said before, there's little or no point in arguing this with all the beliefs and theories of man (āmanās wisdom leads into a mazeā). Weāll agree to disagree, I simply cannot accept from all of the inspired holy scripture (Godās written truth and wisdom to us in language we can understand) that Jesus didnāt actually exist until he was born a man into this world. As Nathan says, the thread of who Jesus is is clear in whole of scripture, as revealed through the Holy Spirit to us. He existed as real, not simply a figment in Godās mind. Yes, the āHoly Bibleā as you put it, and why stop with the KJV translation? The original Hebrew and Greek are freely available so translational issues shouldnāt prevent finding the godly meaning intended by God for us. You donāt like ādivineā. Well Jesus told us āGod is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truthā (ESV). I used divine because I assumed you would gag over āJesus is Godā. I donāt personally like that description either as for me in my relationship, God is God the Father (my Father). Iāll simply clarify if itās necessary, that God (Father) and Jesus (from my understanding of all biblical scripture) are both fully spirit (as Jesus told us of his father God). Now of course, Jesus is both spirit and man (my understanding). Or another way, God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit comprise the Godhead. Or Jesus is both deity and man, again my understanding. One last personal aspect, I am very comfortable accepting all that the deity/spiritual/divine Jesus tells me about my salvation based on his having existed (lived) with God the Father in heaven before he came to earth as a man. Way more confident in the words of this Jesus, than words of any man, even a 100% perfect but mere man. Jesus told us a lot from his past experiences in heaven with his father God. And Jesus said in John 16:12 āI have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.ā Some of those āmany thingsā are what the Holy Spirit through the agency of Paul has told us in holy scripture about the power and righteousness in the gospel message. Finally, No my name is not Robert. However you have got the first two letters correct. Before you abandon the use of the term 'divine,' perhaps you could divine (seek out) the remaining letters? So Ro***, one last Question: were you ever a worker (and if not, why not)? You donāt need to respond to that, itās just that you sounded very much like one! Best regards to you, we seem a long way apart (certainly geographically) but if both in Christ then not so very apart spiritually. |
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Post by mountain on Sept 27, 2024 15:56:44 GMT -5
Let's put 2x2ism to one side, but with the caveat it isn't 100% bad or wrong. It does have some things right. Jesus did indeed tell us 'I am the Way, etc.' What does that mean? He added 'no man comes to the Father but through me!' Jesus invited his disciples and others to 'Follow me!' What does that mean exactly? Look no further than the disciples. It meant they followed him in his way, his truth and his life....even to the death, in order to come to the Father. We are to die daily to our own will in order to let Christ control us. I could go on endlessly picking verses from scripture which supports this line of thinking. Our lives are no longer our own. They have been bought with a huge price to absolve our sins, without which we could never be acceptable to the Father. That is Jesus's bit. Our bit is to follow in his footsteps in the same way as the original Christians did. One big mistake modern Christians make is in thinking that Jesus did everything for us to enable us to get eternal life. Wrong. Jesus did everything he could for us in order that we can have eternal life. We still have a part to play. That is in believing in Jesus the Son of God. Believing is much more than a mere acknowledgement, but is actively following in the footsteps of Jesus, just as the early Christians did. We are reconciled to God 1) by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, 2) activating our chance of salvation by following the way, truth and life of Christ in our lives.
Tough to take isn't it? An impressive response mountain. Youāve got it all figured out, which must be intellectually very satisfying and give you great peace of mind. Here are a few questions and responses. Q. With such an assertive line of reasoning, are you able to maintain an open mind in case, just on the off chance, something you have concluded does not quite align with Godās truth/wisdom in the bible? The reason I ask this, and itās nothing personal because I donāt know you at all, is that over long years we have observed a serious flaw in human (used to include manās, womanās and everything elseās) reasoning/logic based on a confidence in our intellectual abilities to decide on some belief as incontrovertibly true ā according to us. But a belief not aligned with Godās truth, which human pride holds us to. Atheism is one example. Nathanās beliefs on hollow Venus are another. If only he had an open mind for the relevant correction of this strange but undoubtedly deeply held conviction he has. Alas! It's due to having an open mind that I am where I am at. Many years of prayer, experience, examination and relying on being led by the Holy Spirit rather than man. Please point out ONE thing that I have written over my last couple of posts, that you think is wrong and let us explore it with honesty, truth, sincerity and with an open mind. A great attempt to deflect my beliefs without singling out a single statement which you believe to be wrong and why! You appear to be dismissing my position through ignorance rather than knowledge.Q. How are you going with following in Christās footsteps? From knowing something of human nature I would expect when you first had that epiphany of the need to follow Jesus, you started a long way from where you should have been. Undoubtedly much closer know, so my question really is, how close is close enough and what if, at that last dying moment you have not quite got the footsteps lined up? Iām not being a smart-alec here, itās just in my walk with God Iāve never believed as you do in this regard, and thatās the genuine query I would not be comfortable with feeling I knew the answer to (in short, I would have no confidence in my reasoning of what was the pass standard, and where I would stand before my God if I was to come short even by one skerrick from His standard of righteousness). I appear to have my beliefs lined up with Peter the Apostle.
1 Peter 2:21, āFor to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.ā
We are asked to follow in the footsteps of Christ. That does not mean we will not stumble along the way. However, we pick ourselves up and keep going. God has made a twofold plan for our walk with Jesus. He allowed his only begotten human being son to become the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. However, this is only effective for those who choose to believe in the Son of God, by following him as he requested in the way, truth and life which leads to the Father and eternal life. As we stumble along the way (sins) the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness and presents us perfect before God. It's very simple. The blood of Jesus wipes away our sins as we genuinely strive to follow in his footsteps. Q. Last one on this topic, which really boils down to salvation by grace, or salvation by our works or merit or effort (following Jesusā example). Do you accept as divinely inspired (divinely = godly) the epistles of Paul, where he espouses the gospel of salvation by grace through faith not of works lest any should boast? Or do you discount Paulās teaching in comparison with the red-letter words of Jesus? You would have been better to start this last question by stating what Grace means in your opinion? Having studied the concept at length in the past, my understanding is that GRACE is all that God (freely) gives us to help us do his will, or the works that he has called us to do, has planned for us, as we follow in the footsteps of Jesus. We cannot please God by our own human works, but by works of obedience to his will (word). Do you not agree that Jesus and the early Apostles, etc, lived out this understanding in their lives? Paul adequately addresses both forms of Works, sadly missed by most of the reformed catholics in this day and age (Protestants) and misunderstood by traditional Catholicism.
Agree with you that 2x2ism isn't 100% bad or wrong. Itās led me to Christ, and I trust you and many others. And it allows for a wide spectrum of beliefs and understandings; in short, itās a ābroad churchā in this regard . And thatās good in my book, as it allows growth (with that open mindedness to God through being open to teaching and correction by the Holy Spirit). I know Iām in no way a finished product, so much to go (in effect, an unlimited amount when you consider the creation and universe we live in). I agree with you. There is so much to learn, the fullness of it is unachievable in this life. However, the further I progress the more that I see God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confuse the wise and the simplicity of the things of Christ to stop his followers from being lead astray by enticing doctrine of devils, but many let their own imagination or that of others to control their thinking and direction.
Also agree āWe are to die daily to our own will in order to let Christ control us.ā That for me is āour bitā. āTough to take isn't it?ā ā no, I donāt agree except at times when taking my own prideful, selfish and self-centred way rises up. But love for God and humility in knowing He is on the throne and not any one of us kind-of makes the dying to self and allowing God to control the greater joy and blessing. So sincerely, no not tough in the way I think you are suggesting. If you are opining that my comments are prideful, selfish and self centred, then you are right that you don't know me.
Jesus did NOT exist before his conception and birth. However, from the beginning he existed very much in the mind and plan of God from before Creation. It was through the mind and plan of God for the future Jesus that he created the World and the Universe. It was by his plan for Jesus.
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Stick with scripture (KJV if possible) and with the words of God, Jesus and their true followers. Use the term 'divine' with the same regularity AND CONTEXT that you find in the Bible. Replace it with the correct term 'Holy' and you will do well. You will get back on the scriptural path. The term 'divine' is something that comes from another source and is designed to throw you off the path of true righteousness. As I said before, there's little or no point in arguing this with all the beliefs and theories of man (āmanās wisdom leads into a mazeā). Weāll agree to disagree, I simply cannot accept from all of the inspired holy scripture (Godās written truth and wisdom to us in language we can understand) that Jesus didnāt actually exist until he was born a man into this world. As Nathan says, the thread of who Jesus is is clear in whole of scripture, as revealed through the Holy Spirit to us. He existed as real, not simply a figment in Godās mind.Would you care to select one example of why you believe the way you do and subject it to honest, sincere, truthful and open minded scrutiny? One good tool that I use is 'simplicity,' often that which a child can understand.
Yes, the āHoly Bibleā as you put it, and why stop with the KJV translation? The original Hebrew and Greek are freely available so translational issues shouldnāt prevent finding the godly meaning intended by God for us. A very good point, but please do not omit the importance of the Holy Spirit to guide us.
You donāt like ādivineā. Well Jesus told us āGod is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truthā (ESV). I used divine because I assumed you would gag over āJesus is Godā. I donāt personally like that description either as for me in my relationship, God is God the Father (my Father). Iāll simply clarify if itās necessary, that God (Father) and Jesus (from my understanding of all biblical scripture) are both fully spirit (as Jesus told us of his father God). Now of course, Jesus is both spirit and man (my understanding). Or another way, God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit comprise the Godhead. Or Jesus is both deity and man, again my understanding. God is Spirit, an Holy Spirit. Godhead is best interpreted as Godly or Godliness. Show me one verse that shows Jesus to actually be God or part of a trinitarian God. Furthermore show me a single verse that shows Jesus to be the eternal Word of God itself, rather than God's latter days messenger. God is Spirit. He is the Almighty God. From the beginning of the Bible to the end, God is the Father and vice versa. In every reference made by Jesus to one of the other, the Father is God. Jesus also points out several times that he is NOT the actual word of God, but God's messenger. All that he spoke came from God who is the Father. Jesus also tells us the the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. This is all very simple stuff that a child can understand.
Jesus now that he has ascended to Heaven and received his inheritance of all power in Heaven and Earth (acting on behalf of his Heavenly Father (your Father and God and mine) reigns over the universe. As part of his inheritance he has received control of the Holy Spirit which he sends to his followers. This is why he is referred to as a life giving spirit. He is a human being with a glorified body, full of God's Spirit.
One last personal aspect, I am very comfortable accepting all that the deity/spiritual/divine Jesus tells me about my salvation based on his having existed (lived) with God the Father in heaven before he came to earth as a man. Way more confident in the words of this Jesus, than words of any man, even a 100% perfect but mere man. Jesus told us a lot from his past experiences in heaven with his father God. And Jesus said in John 16:12 āI have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.ā Some of those āmany thingsā are what the Holy Spirit through the agency of Paul has told us in holy scripture about the power and righteousness in the gospel message. Jesus wasn't the first perfect man on this Earth. In fact he was the third. Adam and Eve were created perfect in the sight of God. It is unknown how long they remained perfect before they fell away through disobedience. Some suggest anything up to c.100 years, as Seth was born when Adam was 130 years of age. Cain and Abel were born before Seth and were adults before Seth was born. Jesus was the second Adam. Therefore it is possible that God can create or raise up a perfect man, which he did with Jesus. The difference between Adam and Eve and Jesus is that the first two fell away from God through disobedience (sin), but Jesus remained obedient to the very end and was welcomed into his Father's bosom.
I'm sure you will appreciate that the human being Jesus did not exist in Heaven before his conception and birth? So what came down from Heaven?
Scripture is clear that Jesus emptied himself of his human will to serve his heavenly Father. He battled every day to maintain this position. This allowed God to pour into him his Spirit without measure, in order that he could become the express image of God. Think of this as a glass of water being emptied out (Jesus human will) to be replaced with wine (the Holy Spirit). In this scenario, God is expressing himself through the human Jesus. This is why Thomas could see both his God (the Father) and his Lord (Jesus) ultimately before him.
It was the Holy Spirit which descended from Heaven which shone through and guided Jesus in this life. The Word is ALWAYS God the Father's word and the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. It's these three that are one, just like Tulip's being, his word and his spirit/actions. We were created in the image of God.
Finally, No my name is not Robert. However you have got the first two letters correct. Before you abandon the use of the term 'divine,' perhaps you could divine (seek out) the remaining letters? So Ro***, one last Question: were you ever a worker (and if not, why not)? You donāt need to respond to that, itās just that you sounded very much like one! Best regards to you, we seem a long way apart (certainly geographically) but if both in Christ then not so very apart spiritually. You can try RO* or RO****, but not RO***. No I was never a worker. I would appreciate it if you did not link me with the 2x2 sect, other than as a previous member. My up to date beliefs are down to my own efforts in agency with the Holy Spirit. It allows me to speak simply and boldly, not with pride, self centredness, etc.
Anyway it is good to communicate about these various issues with others. I return your kind wishes which are much appreciated.
R**/R****
PS You can call me Ro if you want? |
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 28, 2024 13:22:37 GMT -5
No, there are more than that in the last 24 hrs and the count is 1184 unregistered guests, and registered members is 21ā¦ TMB is very famous and well known for over 20 years by workers, friends, exes and people who want information, news on different topics are posted on here. That is one of the reasons I am hanging around and post on here. Good place to share information, teachings that people donāt hear in the gospel meetings, Sunday morning worship meetings, Wed Night Bible studies, special meetings, or at conventions.šThe TMB is way ahead of its time! We discuss all kinds of topics, questions and so on, that the workers donāt like for you to ask them or they KNOW the answers to. š We know. It's all about YOU -- trying to make yourself a new profit for the 2x2's who won't listen to you. You commandeer this board to preach your foolishness because you have nowhere else to get the attention you're looking for. They are for the last 20 years slowly, it takes awhile to uproot false ideas, false or half truth 2x2 history, false teachings such as the Trinity is the RCC and devilish pagan belief, covered up CSA and sweeping under the carpet for years! The TMB is NOT my only place to spread/share the gospel message of Jesus, I do at work with my second family/customers, and the people I meet every days. That is Jesus GREAT Commission to the apostles and true believers sharing, teaching Jesus doctrines to the world. Matthew 28:16-20. You did that for over 50 years as a 2x2 believer but now you change your tune and became an atheist! That is so sad.š±š¤ Itās NOT about me, but Jesus the Christ/Anointed Messiah Savior of mankind, I want to promote and give glory to God the Father, Christ our Savior and The Holy Spirit our Teacher, Guide and Protector on earth now. |
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 28, 2024 17:02:34 GMT -5
It seems to me the Anti-Trinity 2x2s and ex-2x2 only see and understand Jesus the perfect man begotten by God became the Son of God! 2000 years ago.
The Anti-Trinity or Jesus is NOT canāt see or understand Prior to Jesus incarnation he was the Christ God Yahweh, the I AM that I AM in the Old Testament guide and protect the children in those days, months and thousands of years, exists Eternally with God the Father and the Holy Spirit in heaven = The Godhead.
Matthew 1:23 Jesus/Yashua name interprets God is with us.
Christ/Jesus is part of the Godhead Read Matthew 28:16-20 Jesus said teach and baptized in the Name of the Father, in the name of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Jesus put his name and the Holy Spirit in the same level as God the Father because He and Holy Spirit are also or part of the Godhead.
I John 5:7-8 For there are 3 that bear records in heaven, God the Father, Christ the Word, and the Holy Spirit= The Godhead. Rev. 19 it said Jesus is the Word Godā¦ the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God, who made flesh to live and die for our sins. John 1:1-14.
Yes, Jesus is the Son of God but donāt stop there! Jesus is the Son of man and the Son of God; Jesus is BOTH God and Man in ONE Body/Person of Jesus.
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Post by Annan on Sept 28, 2024 18:21:34 GMT -5
It seems to me the Anti-Trinity 2x2s and ex-2x2 only see and understand Jesus the perfect man begotten by God became the Son of God! 2000 years ago. The Anti-Trinity or Jesus is NOT canāt see or understand Prior to Jesus incarnation he was the Christ God Yahweh, the I AM that I AM in the Old Testament guide and protect the children in those days, months and thousands of years, exists Eternally with God the Father and the Holy Spirit in heaven = The Godhead. Matthew 1:23 Jesus/Yashua name interprets God is with us. Christ/Jesus is part of the Godhead Read Matthew 28:16-20 Jesus said teach and baptized in the Name of the Father, in the name of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Jesus put his name and the Holy Spirit in the same level as God the Father because He and Holy Spirit are also or part of the Godhead. I John 5:7-8 For there are 3 that bear records in heaven, God the Father, Christ the Word, and the Holy Spirit= The Godhead. Rev. 19 it said Jesus is the Word Godā¦ the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God, who made flesh to live and die for our sins. John 1:1-14. Yes, Jesus is the Son of God but donāt stop there! Jesus is the Son of man and the Son of God; Jesus is BOTH God and Man in ONE Body/Person of Jesus. No. That is not what the cult teaches. |
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). I simply say, would I trust any man, even the heretical created "perfect man" of heresies like Arianism) for my salvation? No, my faith is in the risen Saviour, divine Son of God who came from heaven the spotless lamb of God, and has returned to heaven as the "first fruits" of the resurrection, the first perfect (fully righteous) man(/woman) in heaven! Him I can believe. Praise Him!!
