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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 17:23:52 GMT -5
“If only you had not accused the worker of 'borrowing' the 'palm tree' sermon..” Oh, good this brings the thread back on topic – the Palm Tree sermon. I heard that sermon from several workers – apparently its almost word for word distribution reveals workers borrowing sermons from other workers, which practice is revealed in more cases than just the Palm Tree sermon. And after seeing numerous examples of similarly shared sermons, rather abruptly I became aware that workers have long distributed printed or hand written copies of choice sermons among them. And it is on written record that Jack Carroll instructed workers on what subject to preach first, second, third etc. I'm certain that I did not accuse or even suggest that Howard Mooney or any other worker was guilty of “plagiarism” - but I am not going waste my time to review my posts all over this board to prove it. And that is because workers always taught me that they preached as the 'spirit' (small case) led, not from prepared notes or sermons – i.e., the workers taught me hog wash AT BEST – obviously. In fact it is based on that false teaching on 'spirit led' ministry that many 2x2s read "script" in place of "scrip" in their Bibles. Gratu,
If you are seriously glad to get back to the topic of the thread – the Palm Tree sermon, -why did you post the long often inaccurate post about the travel of light?
Still not able to answer any of my posts?
Very simple - go review the thread yourself if you want to waste YOUR time. By the way, you grabbed copy before it was completed again - go read the rest if you are interested in its completion.
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Post by rational on Aug 8, 2019 17:25:44 GMT -5
Oh, good this brings the thread back on topic – the Palm Tree sermon. I heard that sermon from several workers – apparently its almost word for word distribution reveals workers borrowing sermons from other workers, which practice is revealed in more cases than just the Palm Tree sermon. And after seeing numerous examples of similarly shared sermons, rather abruptly I became aware that workers have long distributed printed or hand written copies of choice sermons among them. And it is on written record that Jack Carroll instructed workers on what subject to preach first, second, third etc. But the topic was a satirical In Memory of Duane Gish
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 17:28:38 GMT -5
"You did not have to use the exact word to imply the same meaning."
go stuff your thick one-track skull in a bucket of stuff - I already explained why mine has NOTHING to do with "plagiarism" just a couple of minutes ago.
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Post by rational on Aug 8, 2019 17:34:51 GMT -5
"You did not have to use the exact word to imply the same meaning." go stuff your thick one-track skull in a bucket of stuff - I already explained why mine has NOTHING to do with "plagiarism" just a couple of minutes ago. Your explanation fell flat. Synonyms for plagiarism falsification infringement piracy appropriation borrowing fraud stealing theft counterfeiting cribbing lifting literary theft
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 17:36:54 GMT -5
"Your explanation fell flat."
And YOU have a flat.
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Post by rational on Aug 8, 2019 17:39:12 GMT -5
"Your explanation fell flat." And YOU have a flat. How quickly you turn to personal attacks. The first sign that there is no data to support the claims. Did you not think 'borrow' was a synonyms of plagiarism?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 17:44:10 GMT -5
"Your explanation fell flat." And YOU have a flat. How quickly you turn to personal attacks. The first sign that there is no data to support the claims. Did you not think 'borrow' was a synonyms of plagiarism? I told you that I have NOTHING more to say to you any time soon, and you said that is "fine" and immediately start pounding my posts AGAIN with your same-old "plagiarism" crap. I don't know of anyone who would quietly put up with your one-track lack of RESPECT. But then I think that you WANT personal attack because you failed to get it previously, so your alias finally achieved it - now go complain to Admin even with this in hand.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 18:03:27 GMT -5
OOPS - I must be getting flustered - this thread's topic is Duane Gish, not the Palm Tree sermon So I correct myself. I'll see if I can find another online tribute to Duane Gish as 'self-punishment.' Sorry you'll need to wait longer for completion because at my present location the connection is slower and more glitch-prone than dial up. Not to fret on that too much though because I won't be here very long and will be back where internet connection is normal again - patience, please. Yup - here we go - hope it runs because it would not run for me here. Origin of the Universe, - Duane Gish www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPWI3Sx4IHI
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Post by snow on Aug 8, 2019 19:32:42 GMT -5
Are not nature worshipers not like the magicians of pharoah? Creationists present their theories. Nature worshipers challenge their theories with their own. --- How do you get a creation out of nothing? Isn't the foundation of atheists a case of insisting that alchemy be forever conflated with science? How do you get all the gods that have been created, out of nothing?
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Post by Lee on Aug 8, 2019 19:58:18 GMT -5
Ask a question based upon what you do believe and you will learn something new.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 20:34:21 GMT -5
Oh, good this brings the thread back on topic – the Palm Tree sermon. I heard that sermon from several workers – apparently its almost word for word distribution reveals workers borrowing sermons from other workers, which practice is revealed in more cases than just the Palm Tree sermon. And after seeing numerous examples of similarly shared sermons, rather abruptly I became aware that workers have long distributed printed or hand written copies of choice sermons among them. And it is on written record that Jack Carroll instructed workers on what subject to preach first, second, third etc. But the topic was a satirical In Memory of Duane GishWow - I think I should stick around here where the connection is slower than a snail - I didn't notice rational's immediate jump on my little goof - um say +10 points in popularity. So, you and another at least thought I missed the point of this thread - and you were correct but no wonder you still failed to reveal any point you had at all. It had already backfired on you by default - say -10 points in popularity - and I can hardly think of anything more satirical than your hated "creationists" linked to teach on your thread. Thanks again for introducing me to Duane Gish. I believe you just got zapped by a small bolt of lightening, so I could not be more pleased that I did not know your thread was intended satire against you emeny.
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Post by snow on Aug 8, 2019 20:57:35 GMT -5
Ask a question based upon what you do believe and you will learn something new. I make a point of learning something new every day. Right now I'm reading Guy P. Harrison's book At Least Know This: Essential Science to Enhance Your Life. I don't see religion as learning anything new. In fact, the whole point behind religions seem to be making sure nothing changes and we're stuck in the past.
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Post by rational on Aug 8, 2019 21:00:32 GMT -5
How quickly you turn to personal attacks. The first sign that there is no data to support the claims. Did you not think 'borrow' was a synonyms of plagiarism? I told you that I have NOTHING more to say to you any time soon, and you said that is "fine" and immediately start pounding my posts AGAIN with your same-old "plagiarism" crap. I don't know of anyone who would quietly put up with your one-track lack of RESPECT. But then I think that you WANT personal attack because you failed to get it previously, so your alias finally achieved it - now go complain to Admin even with this in hand. You are not required to say anything to me if that is your wish and desire. As you know respect is something that is earned. I tried to put the issue to rest but you seem reluctant. You complain about the plagiarism discussion yet will not state that all facts you presented as your own were indeed your own. What conclusion should be reached?
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 8, 2019 21:35:02 GMT -5
Gratu,
If you are seriously glad to get back to the topic of the thread – the Palm Tree sermon, -why did you post the long often inaccurate post about the travel of light?
Still not able to answer any of my posts?
Very simple - go review the thread yourself if you want to waste YOUR time. By the way, you grabbed copy before it was completed again - go read the rest if you are interested in its completion. Gratu, You have accused people that they "grabbed (your)copy before it was completed" several times now.
We can't even see your copy until you have POSTED it!
How you think that we can "grab" you post before you have sent it?
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Post by rational on Aug 8, 2019 21:42:37 GMT -5
But the topic was a satirical In Memory of Duane GishWow - I think I should stick around here where the connection is slower than a snail - I didn't notice rational's immediate jump on my little goof - um say +10 points in popularity. Probably because it is a one way transmission and you have the slow side. It is like explaining a joke - if the person doesn't get it, just move on. The perception of backfire might be the result of a missed point. Yeah, that's the ticket, the satire was against Gish.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 22:24:00 GMT -5
“The perception of backfire might be the result of a missed point. Yeah, that's the ticket, the satire was against Gish.“
Like I said, I'm most tickled that you let your 'joke' remain unexplained - had you not revealed your intention just a post or two ago, I would not have seen the platform for repayment that you provided yourself.
I would never have guessed because I had higher regard for rational than cheap 2x2 style ridicule of his emenies. And evidently the unplanned backfire of your ridicule will give Duane Gish a platform on your alias to teach from – I can hardly think of a more just repayment for your ridicule. I wish workers had pages on their platforms on which they ignorantly and arrogantly ridicule other people out of their own biases because I would help them to teach their whole congregation on THEIR platforms too.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 8, 2019 23:09:15 GMT -5
“The perception of backfire might be the result of a missed point. Yeah, that's the ticket, the satire was against Gish.“ Like I said, I'm most tickled that you let your 'joke' remain unexplained - had you not revealed your intention just a post or two ago, I would not have seen the platform for repayment that you provided yourself. I would never have guessed because I had higher regard for rational than cheap 2x2 style ridicule of his emenies. And evidently the unplanned backfire of your ridicule will give Duane Gish a platform on your alias to teach from – I can hardly think of a more just repayment for your ridicule. I wish workers had pages on their platforms on which they ignorantly and arrogantly ridicule other people out of their own biases because I would help them to teach their whole congregation on THEIR platforms too. “The perception of backfire might be the result of a missed point. Yeah, that's the ticket, the satire was against Gish.“ Like I said, I'm most tickled that you let your 'joke' remain unexplained - had you not revealed your intention just a post or two ago, I would not have seen the platform for repayment that you provided yourself. I would never have guessed because I had higher regard for rational than cheap 2x2 style ridicule of his emenies. And evidently the unplanned backfire of your ridicule will give Duane Gish a platform on your alias to teach from – I can hardly think of a more just repayment for your ridicule. I wish workers had pages on their platforms on which they ignorantly and arrogantly ridicule other people out of their own biases because I would help them to teach their whole congregation on THEIR platforms too. I would think that anyone who know what Gish was all about and read Rational's thread with would have realized that the name of the thread was a "satire."
Don't consider "satire" cheap'
It is often better able to get a thought across.
Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government, or society itself into improvement.[1] Although satire is usually meant to be humorous, its greater purpose is often constructive social criticism, using wit to draw attention to both particular and wider issues in society.
A feature of satire is strong irony or sarcasm—"in satire, irony is militant"[2][3]—but parody, burlesque, exaggeration,[4] juxtaposition, comparison, analogy, and double entendre are all frequently used in satirical speech and writing. This "militant" irony or sarcasm often professes to approve of (or at least accept as natural) the very things the satirist wishes to attack.
Satire is nowadays found in many artistic forms of expression, including internet memes, literature, plays, commentary, television shows, and media such as lyrics.*
foot note: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 0:09:47 GMT -5
"...in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule,..."
Looks like I did get the point after all, mom. But thanks for your parental guidance anyway. So rational considers himself capable of RIDICULING Dr, Gish huh - just maybe his is if he did so validly within a common perspective. But the perspectives of rational are so far removed from those of Gish that his RIDICULE is arrogant and ignorant, just like 2x2s practice on each other and everyone else on the planet that they simply don't like. So I don't think I needed your kind parental guidance very much.
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Post by rational on Aug 9, 2019 0:49:05 GMT -5
“The perception of backfire might be the result of a missed point. Yeah, that's the ticket, the satire was against Gish.“ Like I said, I'm most tickled that you let your 'joke' remain unexplained - had you not revealed your intention just a post or two ago, I would not have seen the platform for repayment that you provided yourself. You still don't. Oh, I don't think that is the reason. Unplanned? Backfire? Good to know. Looking at the original post - At what point did I ridicule Duane Gish?
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 9, 2019 0:50:11 GMT -5
"...in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule,..." Looks like I did get the point after all, mom. But thanks for your parental guidance anyway. So rational considers himself capable of RIDICULING Dr, Gish huh - just maybe his is if he did so validly within a common perspective. But the perspectives of rational are so far removed from those of Gish that his RIDICULE is arrogant and ignorant, just like 2x2s practice on each other and everyone else on the planet that they simply don't like. So I don't think I needed your kind parental guidance very much. Well, sonny boy, -maybe that is your problem.
Do you really think that "vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings" should be listened to, -acted upon and accepted, despite the harm they can do to so many people?
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Post by rational on Aug 9, 2019 1:09:24 GMT -5
"...in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule,..." Looks like I did get the point after all, mom. But thanks for your parental guidance anyway. So rational considers himself capable of RIDICULING Dr, Gish huh - just maybe his is if he did so validly within a common perspective. But the perspectives of rational are so far removed from those of Gish that his RIDICULE is arrogant and ignorant, just like 2x2s practice on each other and everyone else on the planet that they simply don't like. So I don't think I needed your kind parental guidance very much. Are you sure I ridiculed Gish? Do you think 'Mom' is proud of her boy?
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 9, 2019 1:57:41 GMT -5
Well, sonny boy, -maybe that is your problem.
Do you really think that "vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings" should be listened to, -acted upon and accepted, despite the harm they can do to so many people? Sure mummy - that's what is taught at school these days, like your view is valid for you etc. etc. etc. So by that school lesson, all prisoners should be set free and all prisons closed to taxpayers benefit - until the thief who was set free gets his view of the taxpayers pot full of of saved loot, viewng it as his own. But then I'm just a dumb kid ready to just soak in everything and anything under the sun, especially if the teacher possesses a doctorate in evolution science - that bible stuff - yuck right? However, I just quoted part of an apparent definition you gave for "satire", which pointed up the same word I used for the common practice of 2x2s and quite evidently still practiced by former 2x2s - without seeing your def before pointing that similarity up. I sincerely doubt that you know what is being taught in school these days, because none of what you said is true
I can't respond to this part of your post because none of what you said makes any sense.
"I just quoted part of an apparent definition you gave for "satire", which pointed up the same word I used for the common practice of 2x2s and quite evidently still practiced by former 2x2s -without seeing your def before pointing that similarity up.
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Post by Lee on Aug 9, 2019 8:11:02 GMT -5
Ask a question based upon what you do believe and you will learn something new. I make a point of learning something new every day. Right now I'm reading Guy P. Harrison's book At Least Know This: Essential Science to Enhance Your Life. I don't see religion as learning anything new. In fact, the whole point behind religions seem to be making sure nothing changes and we're stuck in the past. Seems to be? Ben Shapiro has a new book out about the religious roots of the enlightenment. Reason, he argues, grows and grew from metaphysical traditions and assumptions.
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Post by rational on Aug 9, 2019 8:52:33 GMT -5
It is not often that a member/head of a creationist www site makes such a mark. A PhD in biochemistry (Berkeley 1953) and had published 10+ peer reviewed well received academic papers. That all came to an end in the early 70s when he joined forces with the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) and became their scientific spokesperson. While he held no degrees or training in evolutionary biology he did not fear taking any side that supported the ICR. His debating style was dramatic and has been copied by many creationists and young earth believers. The style was so distinct that it was called the Gish gallop. The tactic is to present as many claims as possible without worrying if they are supported by fact or not, knowing that cleaning up the mess will take an unreasonable amount of time and effort and still probably not be able to clear up all of the skeptical claims. Throwing dung against the wall to see if it sticks is much easier than stopping to clean it up. In a timed debate, a quipped "light travels instantaneously from the stars to the earth", a quick remark unsupported by fact, but it cannot simply be countered by "No it doesn't" but time and reasoning must be employed to show it is incorrect. This brought to mind the latest Gish Galloper. Of course, it is an option to just ignore the incorrect posts and the video links presenting the same tired statements regarding the age of the universe/earth or the changing of the speed of light as the earth ages (well, at least until the speed of light could be accurately measured) without bothering to clean it up but as Carl Sagan noted, in the demon-haunted world science is a candle in the dark. The issue goes beyond theism and atheism to address supported and unsupported facts. “Looking at the original post - At what point did I ridicule Duane Gish? “ Maybe you'll tell us all one day once your 'joke' is stale – I could not see a thing that fit satire until you revealed it was intended as “satirical.” So here is the original post hoping you will point out what you held up to ridicule – I'm obviously just too dumb and/or gullible to figure out what is held up to ridicule without your help – now that I know it was intended to be satirical, so I would guess that it was something in the picture? From the question that you quoted ( Looking at the original post - At what point did I ridicule Duane Gish?) it looks like I was asking about your statement that I was ridiculing Gish and I was asking you to support your claim. I do not see where you answered the question. The use of the word 'joke' was, of course, an allegory. As soon as a joke needs to be explained it is stale so what is the point. You accused me of ridiculing Gish. I asked you where that happened. You then reply and ask me to answer the question I asked you. The ball is in your court. I guess I might have pointed out the hair but having little myself I didn't notice really notice it. It does look like it might be a hair piece. There is one source that states the photo is of " ...the taxidermied corpse of the late Duane Gish, as currently posed in the ICR lobby" (*). I could not, however, find a second source to support that claim.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 10:03:41 GMT -5
“Are you sure I ridiculed Gish? “
“You accused me of ridiculing Gish. I asked you where that happened. You then reply and ask me to answer the question I asked you.
The ball is in your court. “
Nope. That's what the def (not I) says “satire” does though. So I would say yours is not satire because I see nothing holding anything up to ridicule in yours. So you have failed to substantiate YOUR claim that it is “satirical.” THAT "ball" was in YOUR court, so I leave it in YOUR court right where it belongs.
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Post by matisse on Aug 9, 2019 10:08:56 GMT -5
I wonder (not really) who the "latest Gish Galloper" could be?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 10:20:51 GMT -5
I wonder (not really) who the "latest Gish Galloper" could be? Me too. It's probably another "allegory" representing all the stuff rational stuck to the wall never stopping to clean it up - maybe.
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Post by matisse on Aug 9, 2019 10:46:30 GMT -5
I wonder (not really) who the "latest Gish Galloper" could be? Me too. It's probably another "allegory" representing all the stuff rational stuck to the wall never stopping to clean it up - maybe. It is probably somebody who has posted enormous volumes of time-sucking junk (non)science "in support of" junk ideas. Classic "Gish Galloping" is effective when used in a time-limited live debate setting. In that case there is no way for the debate opponent to challenge all of the foolish falsehoods presented by the Gish-Galloper in the allotted time. Unfortunately for would-be Gish-Gallopers on TMB, there are no time limits (aside from TMB itself shuttering), and there are TMB members who have strong science backgrounds, who possess World-Class tenacity, and who have the time to expose the foolishness.
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