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Post by rational on May 7, 2019 17:43:20 GMT -5
You don't think there were laws before that? well there are the supposed noahide laws... Were they not replaced by the naugahyde laws?
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 8, 2019 12:17:09 GMT -5
Jesus said that anyone that would offend any of these little ones, that it would be better that a milestone be fastened around his neck and tossed into the sea. Sounds pretty ominous to me But it is well known that the "little ones" were not children at all but the people who had begun to follow Jesus. But on the other hand drowning or existing while wailing and gnashing teeth - drowning sounds like the easy out... Jesus called a little child unto him and set him in the midst of them. He said, “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones, “IT WERE BETTER FOR HIM that a millstone were hanged about his neck , and he were drowned in the deepest sea.” A child was who Jesus was talking about, physically AND spiritually. He was saying that an offender of ANY little one would be getting by a lot easier IF a millstone was hung about his neck, etc. I don’t think I’d like to have to carry that millstone down to the sea esp about my neck. You ever try to pick one up? And if one is claustrophobic, drowning would be hell, at least for awhile. Jesus was saying that punishment would be too light for little ones offenders. He’s saying, they’re going to suffer a great deal. The well known isn’t very understanding of Jesus’ double edged sword in that lesson!
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 8, 2019 12:18:31 GMT -5
I have no idea for why they come in national TV and say whatever they say. All good things come from God. He blesses everyone alike in natural blessings. Evil comes from Satan, he was a murderer from the very beginning. Those statements are in the Bible. When Satan was tossed out of heaven he was given power on the earth. As time goes by, he and his fallen angels wax stronger and stronger because he knows their time is growing shorter and shorter. He working double time to disparage God’s name upon the face of the earth. The last couple of pages of this thread show exactly that. The constant blaspheming God because he hasn’t stopped the abuse of children. I’m sure he’s noting everyone of the instances of abuse and there will be reprisals for everyone who has not done their part to keep evil wrapped in prisonous circumstances. The perps May suffer for their deeds in earth, but they know nothing yet about their paying for their evil deeds but they will. If you remember Satan told Jesus even he was given powers over the things in the world. But how did Jesus hold against those powers? He beat him at his own game. Scripture for scripture! Well I don't have the convenience of believing that Satan is the reason for all evil. In my world I have to be responsible for my bad behavior and ultimately also take credit for the things I do right. That's what I see everyone doing. Except that some people just blame Satan and credit God. For me neither exist. What I do I am responsible for. Awwwww, it’s a natural blessing!
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 8, 2019 12:23:02 GMT -5
God says everyone is accountable and responsible for their actions so I dont know where you get the idea that Christians don't believe they're responsible for their actions. There definitely are some. I am glad you don't all believe that. But if you believe that you are responsible, why do you blame evil on Satan and credit good with God? Why don't you just acknowledge that wrong doing is not because of Satan, but because we are not perfect and make mistakes? Also, when something good happens to you, why does it have to be credited to God. Sometimes you are just plain lucky and the rest of the time it's because another human helped you. I don't hear people thanking the surgeon or the anesthesiologist for getting through the surgery, but you hear people thanking God for it all the time. This is part of what makes no sense to me. I'm glad you feel responsible for what you do. But there are definitely Christians out there that can be called 'Sunday Christians'. Do what you like all week and then go to church on Sunday, confess and get forgiven, then you live the rest of the week doing all the same stuff. When things are out of people’s control as in anesthesia and surgery, a person’s faith is what enables them to let go of that control. And it depends on who or what their faith is basically in that brings them to thank or discuss thankfulness their submission of their control went okay!
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 8, 2019 12:25:17 GMT -5
I have no idea for why they come in national TV and say whatever they say. All good things come from God. He blesses everyone alike in natural blessings. Evil comes from Satan, he was a murderer from the very beginning. Those statements are in the Bible. Also in the bible is the promise that whatever was asked in Jesus' name would be granted. I think it is clear that this is not always the case. I am not certain anyone is blaspheming god. It is just a question that the atheists cannot answer and they ask theists about that situation. "How can god condone child abuse?"This is not an answer. This is a "Wait until your father gets home response" because the parents is powerless to control the child. They may face the legal system but not because of god. It is only in the last 50 years that humans have been taking actions to protect children. In the past 6000 years god has done nothing. The question isn't whether god has the power but why theists believe s/he does when there is no evidence. Blasphemy: The act of offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 8, 2019 12:27:45 GMT -5
I've always thought the ten commandments would have been a good place for God to command that no one own another person. Love thy neighbor as thyself.
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Post by snow on May 8, 2019 13:09:10 GMT -5
There definitely are some. I am glad you don't all believe that. But if you believe that you are responsible, why do you blame evil on Satan and credit good with God? Why don't you just acknowledge that wrong doing is not because of Satan, but because we are not perfect and make mistakes? Also, when something good happens to you, why does it have to be credited to God. Sometimes you are just plain lucky and the rest of the time it's because another human helped you. I don't hear people thanking the surgeon or the anesthesiologist for getting through the surgery, but you hear people thanking God for it all the time. This is part of what makes no sense to me. I'm glad you feel responsible for what you do. But there are definitely Christians out there that can be called 'Sunday Christians'. Do what you like all week and then go to church on Sunday, confess and get forgiven, then you live the rest of the week doing all the same stuff. When things are out of people’s control as in anesthesia and surgery, a person’s faith is what enables them to let go of that control. And it depends on who or what their faith is basically in that brings them to thank or discuss thankfulness their submission of their control went okay! NO. It's not faith. It's reading about what takes place, and seeing that more people do survive surgery than die of it. When you go into surgery you are never sure you will wake up again. But the stats are pretty good on it. It's not faith at all. It's evidence.
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Post by snow on May 8, 2019 13:10:32 GMT -5
I've always thought the ten commandments would have been a good place for God to command that no one own another person. Love thy neighbor as thyself. That is not the same at all. And in the Hebrew world, your neighbor was another Hebrew. If you were bought by a Hebrew and not a Hebrew you never got released. Also if you were a Hebrew woman that was sold into slavery by her father.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 8, 2019 13:15:19 GMT -5
When things are out of people’s control as in anesthesia and surgery, a person’s faith is what enables them to let go of that control. And it depends on who or what their faith is basically in that brings them to thank or discuss thankfulness their submission of their control went okay! NO. It's not faith. It's reading about what takes place, and seeing that more people do survive surgery than die of it. When you go into surgery you are never sure you will wake up again. But the stats are pretty good on it. It's not faith at all. It's evidence. Come on, Snow! It takes having the strength of faith for someone to submit to losing control over their own body or circumstances. As I said, it depends on what their faith is in as to what they’ll say after all is said and done.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 8, 2019 13:18:13 GMT -5
Love thy neighbor as thyself. That is not the same at all. And in the Hebrew world, your neighbor was another Hebrew. If you were bought by a Hebrew and not a Hebrew you never got released. Also if you were a Hebrew woman that was sold into slavery by her father. The OT gave rules for their slaves/servants. After so many years as indentured servants/slaves they were given the choice of freedom. However if they chose to stay with the one who’d kept them those years they had an awl put in their ear. Which classified them as lifelong servants to that person. But it was their choice!
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Post by snow on May 8, 2019 13:22:17 GMT -5
NO. It's not faith. It's reading about what takes place, and seeing that more people do survive surgery than die of it. When you go into surgery you are never sure you will wake up again. But the stats are pretty good on it. It's not faith at all. It's evidence. Come on, Snow! It takes having the strength of faith for someone to submit to losing control over their own body or circumstances. As I said, it depends on what their faith is in as to what they’ll say after all is said and done. That's not faith. That's making decisions based on the best evidence. I do not have faith, I have good evidence that I have a highly probable chance of surviving. That's based on science, statistics etc. Sure I hope that I won't be the other statistic, because I do know that people die. But faith is not what I have. Remember, faith is belief without evidence. There is evidence that people survive surgeries. It's not just faith.
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Post by snow on May 8, 2019 13:24:50 GMT -5
That is not the same at all. And in the Hebrew world, your neighbor was another Hebrew. If you were bought by a Hebrew and not a Hebrew you never got released. Also if you were a Hebrew woman that was sold into slavery by her father. The OT gave rules for their slaves/servants. After so many years as indentured servants/slaves they were given the choice of freedom. However if they chose to stay with the one who’d kept them those years they had an awl put in their ear. Which classified them as lifelong servants to that person. But it was their choice! Only if you were a Hebrew. You got released but if the master gave you a wife and she had children you had to leave them behind. Or stay if you didn't want to leave them. If you stayed you there for life. If you were a non-jew you never got released. You were a slave for life. And the master could beat a slave and if they didn't lived for two days and didn't die immediately that was alright.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 8, 2019 14:43:44 GMT -5
Come on, Snow! It takes having the strength of faith for someone to submit to losing control over their own body or circumstances. As I said, it depends on what their faith is in as to what they’ll say after all is said and done. That's not faith. That's making decisions based on the best evidence. I do not have faith, I have good evidence that I have a highly probable chance of surviving. That's based on science, statistics etc. Sure I hope that I won't be the other statistic, because I do know that people die. But faith is not what I have. Remember, faith is belief without evidence. There is evidence that people survive surgeries. It's not just faith. Faith in the surgeon's ability to bring one back is first.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 8, 2019 18:54:11 GMT -5
Come on, Snow! It takes having the strength of faith for someone to submit to losing control over their own body or circumstances. As I said, it depends on what their faith is in as to what they’ll say after all is said and done. That's not faith. That's making decisions based on the best evidence. I do not have faith, I have good evidence that I have a highly probable chance of surviving. That's based on science, statistics etc. Sure I hope that I won't be the other statistic, because I do know that people die. But faith is not what I have. Remember, faith is belief without evidence. There is evidence that people survive surgeries. It's not just faith. You have faith that the evidence you know of is correct, right? It’s hope that tends to the unknown, unseen.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 8, 2019 19:05:35 GMT -5
That's not faith. That's making decisions based on the best evidence. I do not have faith, I have good evidence that I have a highly probable chance of surviving. That's based on science, statistics etc. Sure I hope that I won't be the other statistic, because I do know that people die. But faith is not what I have. Remember, faith is belief without evidence. There is evidence that people survive surgeries. It's not just faith. You have faith that the evidence you know of is correct, right? It’s hope that tends to the unknown, unseen. But the faith in the doctor comes from seeing his results. I haven't spoken yet to someone who has passed into a "saved" eternity, or an unsaved one either for that matter. There's a difference.
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Post by snow on May 8, 2019 19:44:28 GMT -5
That's not faith. That's making decisions based on the best evidence. I do not have faith, I have good evidence that I have a highly probable chance of surviving. That's based on science, statistics etc. Sure I hope that I won't be the other statistic, because I do know that people die. But faith is not what I have. Remember, faith is belief without evidence. There is evidence that people survive surgeries. It's not just faith. You have faith that the evidence you know of is correct, right? It’s hope that tends to the unknown, unseen. I don't need faith STR. I have worked in hospitals and I have personally seen people go into surgery and come out alive. I have personal evidence that people survive surgery most of the time. I don't need to go in to surgery based on faith. I have evidence it works most of the time. Maybe the problem here is we have a different definition of faith. My definition is what I've stated many times here. Faith is used when there is no evidence. I have had 10 surgeries so far in my life. I worked in a hospital. I never once went into surgery having faith. I don't know why you would say that. Unless you have a different definition of faith than what I stated many times.
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Post by rational on May 8, 2019 19:56:01 GMT -5
But it is well known that the "little ones" were not children at all but the people who had begun to follow Jesus. But on the other hand drowning or existing while wailing and gnashing teeth - drowning sounds like the easy out... Jesus called a little child unto him and set him in the midst of them. He said, “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones, “IT WERE BETTER FOR HIM that a millstone were hanged about his neck , and he were drowned in the deepest sea.” A child was who Jesus was talking about, physically AND spiritually. He was saying that an offender of ANY little one would be getting by a lot easier IF a millstone was hung about his neck, etc. I don’t think I’d like to have to carry that millstone down to the sea esp about my neck. You ever try to pick one up? And if one is claustrophobic, drowning would be hell, at least for awhile. Jesus was saying that punishment would be too light for little ones offenders. He’s saying, they’re going to suffer a great deal. The well known isn’t very understanding of Jesus’ double edged sword in that lesson! In the 2nd,3rd,4th,and 5th verse when Jesus was referring to children he used the word child. Little child or little children. Following the transition after the word 'but' the entities are referred to as 'little ones'. Do you think Jesus was concerned that someone would trip a child and make them stumble? And condemn them to death for tripping them? Mark makes it clearer: Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. Jesus was talking about those who had just begun to follow him.
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Post by xna on May 8, 2019 20:22:44 GMT -5
My first thought on looking at the title thread was: Crimes of Omission - Failure to Act. Where is god doing during all this CSA? The good book bible instructs even worse than CSA for children in the OT. What the Bible says about Children
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 8, 2019 20:23:43 GMT -5
Jesus called a little child unto him and set him in the midst of them. He said, “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones, “IT WERE BETTER FOR HIM that a millstone were hanged about his neck , and he were drowned in the deepest sea.” A child was who Jesus was talking about, physically AND spiritually. He was saying that an offender of ANY little one would be getting by a lot easier IF a millstone was hung about his neck, etc. I don’t think I’d like to have to carry that millstone down to the sea esp about my neck. You ever try to pick one up? And if one is claustrophobic, drowning would be hell, at least for awhile. Jesus was saying that punishment would be too light for little ones offenders. He’s saying, they’re going to suffer a great deal. The well known isn’t very understanding of Jesus’ double edged sword in that lesson! In the 2nd,3rd,4th,and 5th verse when Jesus was referring to children he used the word child. Little child or little children. Following the transition after the word 'but' the entities are referred to as 'little ones'. Do you think Jesus was concerned that someone would trip a child and make them stumble? And condemn them to death for tripping them? Mark makes it clearer: Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. Jesus was talking about those who had just begun to follow him. Yes he was but he also was talking about offending actual children for he had one in their midst. That child would not have understood Jesus was speaking spiritually. That child in their midst that Jesus was speaking about hurting children just like himself. People have put the spiritual there, but Jesus was also talking about the physical. The physical serves the spiritual.
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Post by snow on May 8, 2019 20:42:50 GMT -5
In the 2nd,3rd,4th,and 5th verse when Jesus was referring to children he used the word child. Little child or little children. Following the transition after the word 'but' the entities are referred to as 'little ones'. Do you think Jesus was concerned that someone would trip a child and make them stumble? And condemn them to death for tripping them? Mark makes it clearer: Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. Jesus was talking about those who had just begun to follow him. Yes he was but he also was talking about offending actual children for he had one in their midst. That child would not have understood Jesus was speaking spiritually. That child in their midst that Jesus was speaking about hurting children just like himself. People have put the spiritual there, but Jesus was also talking about the physical. The physical serves the spiritual. Are you sure it was a 'little child' or an adult that had just converted?
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2019 20:44:26 GMT -5
In the 2nd,3rd,4th,and 5th verse when Jesus was referring to children he used the word child. Little child or little children. Following the transition after the word 'but' the entities are referred to as 'little ones'. Do you think Jesus was concerned that someone would trip a child and make them stumble? And condemn them to death for tripping them? Mark makes it clearer: Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. Jesus was talking about those who had just begun to follow him. Yes he was but he also was talking about offending actual children for he had one in their midst. That child would not have understood Jesus was speaking spiritually. That child in their midst that Jesus was speaking about hurting children just like himself. People have put the spiritual there, but Jesus was also talking about the physical. The physical serves the spiritual. rational doesn't understand that verses can be literal, metaphorical or both...
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Post by snow on May 8, 2019 21:05:14 GMT -5
My first thought on looking at the title thread was: Crimes of Omission - Failure to Act. Where is god doing during all this CSA? The good book bible instructs even worse than CSA for children in the OT. What the Bible says about Children
How interesting. I have been talking about something similar to this on another thread. I believe the name of it is What friends say when asked about their faith.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2019 23:17:13 GMT -5
My first thought on looking at the title thread was: Crimes of Omission - Failure to Act. Where is god doing during all this CSA? The good book bible instructs even worse than CSA for children in the OT. What the Bible says about Children
the eruthypho(sp?) dilema is hilarious the answer is right in front of you but you can't see it....Gods very essence IS right everything that comes from him IS right...there is no other arbitrator of right than him...
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Post by rational on May 9, 2019 8:07:35 GMT -5
My first thought on looking at the title thread was: Crimes of Omission - Failure to Act. Where is god doing during all this CSA? The good book bible instructs even worse than CSA for children in the OT. What the Bible says about Children
the eruthypho(sp?) dilema is hilarious the answer is right in front of you but you can't see it....Gods very essence IS right everything that comes from him IS right...there is no other arbitrator of right than him... When faced with a dilemma both choices are right there in front of you. I see two bad choices and you see only one correct choice. Do you really believe that the commands found in the bible are to be followed without question? After all, god is, you believe, the only arbitrator if right and wrong.
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Post by rational on May 9, 2019 8:52:19 GMT -5
Yes he was but he also was talking about offending actual children for he had one in their midst. That child would not have understood Jesus was speaking spiritually. That child in their midst that Jesus was speaking about hurting children just like himself. People have put the spiritual there, but Jesus was also talking about the physical. The physical serves the spiritual. rational doesn't understand that verses can be literal, metaphorical or both... We have seen that theists do, selecting the form of the text based on which will support their current argument/claim. But people experienced in these things seem to agree that the little ones are not the children that would make your claim that god cares about and protects children. Gill's ExpositionAnd whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me,.... Whosoever shall do the, least injury to the meanest person that believes in Christ, who are mean both in their own eyes, and the eyes of others; for Christ is not speaking of little children in age, who are neither capable of believing in Christ, nor are they ready to take offence; but of such as belong to him; his disciples and followers, of whom he is speaking in the preceding verse: it is better for him that a mill stone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea; and drowned there: the allusion is to the drowning of malefactors, by tying a stone, or any heavy thing about their necks, and casting them into the sea. And then there is Zechariah 13:7 There the “little ones” refers to God’s people.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 9, 2019 13:17:29 GMT -5
Yes he was but he also was talking about offending actual children for he had one in their midst. That child would not have understood Jesus was speaking spiritually. That child in their midst that Jesus was speaking about hurting children just like himself. People have put the spiritual there, but Jesus was also talking about the physical. The physical serves the spiritual. Are you sure it was a 'little child' or an adult that had just converted? It says “little child”
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 9, 2019 13:19:23 GMT -5
rational doesn't understand that verses can be literal, metaphorical or both... We have seen that theists do, selecting the form of the text based on which will support their current argument/claim. But people experienced in these things seem to agree that the little ones are not the children that would make your claim that god cares about and protects children. Gill's ExpositionAnd whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me,.... Whosoever shall do the, least injury to the meanest person that believes in Christ, who are mean both in their own eyes, and the eyes of others; for Christ is not speaking of little children in age, who are neither capable of believing in Christ, nor are they ready to take offence; but of such as belong to him; his disciples and followers, of whom he is speaking in the preceding verse: it is better for him that a mill stone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea; and drowned there: the allusion is to the drowning of malefactors, by tying a stone, or any heavy thing about their necks, and casting them into the sea. And then there is Zechariah 13:7 There the “little ones” refers to God’s people. Wally, might as well give up. It’s going no where. Rat can’t help himself but he fails to have the Holy Spirit’s guidance!
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 9, 2019 13:22:22 GMT -5
rational doesn't understand that verses can be literal, metaphorical or both... We have seen that theists do, selecting the form of the text based on which will support their current argument/claim. But people experienced in these things seem to agree that the little ones are not the children that would make your claim that god cares about and protects children. Gill's ExpositionAnd whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me,.... Whosoever shall do the, least injury to the meanest person that believes in Christ, who are mean both in their own eyes, and the eyes of others; for Christ is not speaking of little children in age, who are neither capable of believing in Christ, nor are they ready to take offence; but of such as belong to him; his disciples and followers, of whom he is speaking in the preceding verse: it is better for him that a mill stone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea; and drowned there: the allusion is to the drowning of malefactors, by tying a stone, or any heavy thing about their necks, and casting them into the sea. And then there is Zechariah 13:7 There the “little ones” refers to God’s people. They are supposed to be LIKE little children. That said, don’t little children object sometimes in fighting when someone disparages their parent? Don’t they stand back and stick out their tongues and say, “Nanananana, my daddy can whip your daddy.”? Etc.
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