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Post by sharingtheriches on May 6, 2019 13:07:42 GMT -5
God does answer prayers. But it may not always be in the way we wish. Most often he gives strength and grace to be able to get through a situation. Now some may want to say they did that all alone, but in reality didn’t. There is no evidence that the times I have gotten through a particular rough time in my life, that I didn't do it alone with the help of other humans. I didn't pray to a god for help and there is zero evidence that he helped me. I do have the strength to get through the hard times. I have done it many times. You can't say on the one hand that God doesn't interfere with CSA and on the other say that he does interfere when you pray to him? That's a contradiction. Why is it alright for God to give you what you want when you pray to him and yet he ignores (what I would think would be very heartfelt prayers) of those being abused? He helps someone avoid having their house ruined in a tornado, but he ignores a child pleading to be saved from a child abuser? Really? I don’t think he ignores them.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 6, 2019 13:17:44 GMT -5
God is a Spirit. Naturally, I wouldn’t expect him to function like a physical human. But he can put or stir up the right things in people’s hearts and minds to take care of things in such fashion as to making physical humans understand what’s lawful, righteous and loving. Spirit to spirit. Okay. So you don't think it's really him then when people thank God for answering their prayer that their house gets saved during a tornado? Then why do people pray for things like that and come on national TV thanking him for answering their prayers? I have no idea for why they come in national TV and say whatever they say. All good things come from God. He blesses everyone alike in natural blessings. Evil comes from Satan, he was a murderer from the very beginning. Those statements are in the Bible. When Satan was tossed out of heaven he was given power on the earth. As time goes by, he and his fallen angels wax stronger and stronger because he knows their time is growing shorter and shorter. He working double time to disparage God’s name upon the face of the earth. The last couple of pages of this thread show exactly that. The constant blaspheming God because he hasn’t stopped the abuse of children. I’m sure he’s noting everyone of the instances of abuse and there will be reprisals for everyone who has not done their part to keep evil wrapped in prisonous circumstances. The perps May suffer for their deeds in earth, but they know nothing yet about their paying for their evil deeds but they will. If you remember Satan told Jesus even he was given powers over the things in the world. But how did Jesus hold against those powers? He beat him at his own game. Scripture for scripture!
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Post by snow on May 6, 2019 13:20:23 GMT -5
I do not see the parallel between Jesus' resurrection and crucifixion and revoking misused powers? Where is the connection? It’s been said that salvation that was bought by Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrection cannot be denied to those who believe on Jesus Christ. For that would be God revoking his statement of planned salvation through the gift of his only begotten Son. So since God cannot lie, he would not revoke that power of salvation from a true believer. It could work the same way for the powers that are given to the apostles, it would be a negative act against the giver in such as to force him to be a liar. Or we used to say “Indian giver” which is not giving at all. It isn’t a gift if it is revoked, or taken back. Jesus apparently didn’t revoke Judas Iscariot’s powers he’d given him, though one could say that under the circumstances he sure had a right to. Jesus doesn’t give and then take the gift back. Okay, that explains the apostles 'gifts'. But Elijah was before the crucifixion and the resurrection. No promise had been made at that point.
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Post by snow on May 6, 2019 13:21:38 GMT -5
There is no evidence that the times I have gotten through a particular rough time in my life, that I didn't do it alone with the help of other humans. I didn't pray to a god for help and there is zero evidence that he helped me. I do have the strength to get through the hard times. I have done it many times. You can't say on the one hand that God doesn't interfere with CSA and on the other say that he does interfere when you pray to him? That's a contradiction. Why is it alright for God to give you what you want when you pray to him and yet he ignores (what I would think would be very heartfelt prayers) of those being abused? He helps someone avoid having their house ruined in a tornado, but he ignores a child pleading to be saved from a child abuser? Really? I don’t think he ignores them. Well he sure doesn't do anything to help them.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 6, 2019 13:23:04 GMT -5
It’s been said that salvation that was bought by Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrection cannot be denied to those who believe on Jesus Christ. For that would be God revoking his statement of planned salvation through the gift of his only begotten Son. So since God cannot lie, he would not revoke that power of salvation from a true believer. It could work the same way for the powers that are given to the apostles, it would be a negative act against the giver in such as to force him to be a liar. Or we used to say “Indian giver” which is not giving at all. It isn’t a gift if it is revoked, or taken back. Jesus apparently didn’t revoke Judas Iscariot’s powers he’d given him, though one could say that under the circumstances he sure had a right to. Jesus doesn’t give and then take the gift back. Okay, that explains the apostles 'gifts'. But Elijah was before the crucifixion and the resurrection. No promise had been made at that point. The promise of salvation had been made. Elijah was a chosen prophet. As was Elisha.
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Post by snow on May 6, 2019 13:24:14 GMT -5
Okay. So you don't think it's really him then when people thank God for answering their prayer that their house gets saved during a tornado? Then why do people pray for things like that and come on national TV thanking him for answering their prayers? I have no idea for why they come in national TV and say whatever they say. All good things come from God. He blesses everyone alike in natural blessings. Evil comes from Satan, he was a murderer from the very beginning. Those statements are in the Bible. When Satan was tossed out of heaven he was given power on the earth. As time goes by, he and his fallen angels wax stronger and stronger because he knows their time is growing shorter and shorter. He working double time to disparage God’s name upon the face of the earth. The last couple of pages of this thread show exactly that. The constant blaspheming God because he hasn’t stopped the abuse of children. I’m sure he’s noting everyone of the instances of abuse and there will be reprisals for everyone who has not done their part to keep evil wrapped in prisonous circumstances. The perps May suffer for their deeds in earth, but they know nothing yet about their paying for their evil deeds but they will. If you remember Satan told Jesus even he was given powers over the things in the world. But how did Jesus hold against those powers? He beat him at his own game. Scripture for scripture! Well I don't have the convenience of believing that Satan is the reason for all evil. In my world I have to be responsible for my bad behavior and ultimately also take credit for the things I do right. That's what I see everyone doing. Except that some people just blame Satan and credit God. For me neither exist. What I do I am responsible for.
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Post by Grant on May 6, 2019 15:14:50 GMT -5
I have no idea for why they come in national TV and say whatever they say. All good things come from God. He blesses everyone alike in natural blessings. Evil comes from Satan, he was a murderer from the very beginning. Those statements are in the Bible. When Satan was tossed out of heaven he was given power on the earth. As time goes by, he and his fallen angels wax stronger and stronger because he knows their time is growing shorter and shorter. He working double time to disparage God’s name upon the face of the earth. The last couple of pages of this thread show exactly that. The constant blaspheming God because he hasn’t stopped the abuse of children. I’m sure he’s noting everyone of the instances of abuse and there will be reprisals for everyone who has not done their part to keep evil wrapped in prisonous circumstances. The perps May suffer for their deeds in earth, but they know nothing yet about their paying for their evil deeds but they will. If you remember Satan told Jesus even he was given powers over the things in the world. But how did Jesus hold against those powers? He beat him at his own game. Scripture for scripture! Well I don't have the convenience of believing that Satan is the reason for all evil. In my world I have to be responsible for my bad behavior and ultimately also take credit for the things I do right. That's what I see everyone doing. Except that some people just blame Satan and credit God. For me neither exist. What I do I am responsible for. God says everyone is accountable and responsible for their actions so I dont know where you get the idea that Christians don't believe they're responsible for their actions.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 6, 2019 15:16:45 GMT -5
You would have fit right into the administration of the Magdalene laundries. The children housed there were being punished for the acts of their mothers. You think I’d punish children for their mothers’ wrongs? My point is, Would YOU intervene in such a case. If so, it would seem you're better than God. What you're proposing is either (1) exactly like that, or (2) that such treatment of children doesn't constitute punishment. Either way, the innocent children suffer.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 6, 2019 15:23:32 GMT -5
Well I don't have the convenience of believing that Satan is the reason for all evil. In my world I have to be responsible for my bad behavior and ultimately also take credit for the things I do right. That's what I see everyone doing. Except that some people just blame Satan and credit God. For me neither exist. What I do I am responsible for. God says everyone is accountable and responsible for their actions so I dont know where you get the idea that Christians don't believe they're responsible for their actions. Where did you get the notion that anyone suggested people aren't responsible for their actions? You're completely missing the point. We're trying to understand the lifetime of punishment for children without the intervention of God. It's akin to being delivered into slavery.
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Post by snow on May 6, 2019 15:34:13 GMT -5
Well I don't have the convenience of believing that Satan is the reason for all evil. In my world I have to be responsible for my bad behavior and ultimately also take credit for the things I do right. That's what I see everyone doing. Except that some people just blame Satan and credit God. For me neither exist. What I do I am responsible for. God says everyone is accountable and responsible for their actions so I dont know where you get the idea that Christians don't believe they're responsible for their actions. There definitely are some. I am glad you don't all believe that. But if you believe that you are responsible, why do you blame evil on Satan and credit good with God? Why don't you just acknowledge that wrong doing is not because of Satan, but because we are not perfect and make mistakes? Also, when something good happens to you, why does it have to be credited to God. Sometimes you are just plain lucky and the rest of the time it's because another human helped you. I don't hear people thanking the surgeon or the anesthesiologist for getting through the surgery, but you hear people thanking God for it all the time. This is part of what makes no sense to me. I'm glad you feel responsible for what you do. But there are definitely Christians out there that can be called 'Sunday Christians'. Do what you like all week and then go to church on Sunday, confess and get forgiven, then you live the rest of the week doing all the same stuff.
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Post by rational on May 6, 2019 17:55:35 GMT -5
Okay. So you don't think it's really him then when people thank God for answering their prayer that their house gets saved during a tornado? Then why do people pray for things like that and come on national TV thanking him for answering their prayers? I have no idea for why they come in national TV and say whatever they say. All good things come from God. He blesses everyone alike in natural blessings. Evil comes from Satan, he was a murderer from the very beginning. Those statements are in the Bible. Also in the bible is the promise that whatever was asked in Jesus' name would be granted. I think it is clear that this is not always the case. I am not certain anyone is blaspheming god. It is just a question that the atheists cannot answer and they ask theists about that situation. "How can god condone child abuse?"This is not an answer. This is a "Wait until your father gets home response" because the parents is powerless to control the child. They may face the legal system but not because of god. It is only in the last 50 years that humans have been taking actions to protect children. In the past 6000 years god has done nothing. The question isn't whether god has the power but why theists believe s/he does when there is no evidence.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 6, 2019 20:01:30 GMT -5
You think I’d punish children for their mothers’ wrongs? My point is, Would YOU intervene in such a case. If so, it would seem you're better than God. What you're proposing is either (1) exactly like that, or (2) that such treatment of children doesn't constitute punishment. Either way, the innocent children suffer. I have never proposed that whoever harms children shouldn’t face punishment. Fact is I said the present penalties by law aren’t stiff enough. It doesn’t deter anyone that is going to do such things to innocent children. Nor have I proposed to punish the children for their mothers’ evil deeds! Where you got that crappy idea is sure strange. Beside you’re using Rat’s post which doesn’t have anything to do with anything I’ve posted!
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 6, 2019 20:04:35 GMT -5
I have no idea for why they come in national TV and say whatever they say. All good things come from God. He blesses everyone alike in natural blessings. Evil comes from Satan, he was a murderer from the very beginning. Those statements are in the Bible. Also in the bible is the promise that whatever was asked in Jesus' name would be granted. I think it is clear that this is not always the case. I am not certain anyone is blaspheming god. It is just a question that the atheists cannot answer and they ask theists about that situation. "How can god condone child abuse?"This is not an answer. This is a "Wait until your father gets home response" because the parents is powerless to control the child. They may face the legal system but not because of god. It is only in the last 50 years that humans have been taking actions to protect children. In the past 6000 years god has done nothing. The question isn't whether god has the power but why theists believe s/he does when there is no evidence. No you can’t find the evidence now. But after this old earth and heaven have passed away, I’d like to hear you rethink the issue after the fiery pit reveals the “wailing and gnashing of teeth “! BTW, God did give the first “laws” guiding trespassers punishments for their evil deeds. All other laws throughout the ages show a remarkable kinship to them. You can’t say God hasn’t done anything!
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Post by BobWilliston on May 6, 2019 21:36:03 GMT -5
My point is, Would YOU intervene in such a case. If so, it would seem you're better than God. What you're proposing is either (1) exactly like that, or (2) that such treatment of children doesn't constitute punishment. Either way, the innocent children suffer. I have never proposed that whoever harms children shouldn’t face punishment. Fact is I said the present penalties by law aren’t stiff enough. It doesn’t deter anyone that is going to do such things to innocent children. Nor have I proposed to punish the children for their mothers’ evil deeds! Where you got that crappy idea is sure strange. Beside you’re using Rat’s post which doesn’t have anything to do with anything I’ve posted! Don't worry about it -- you obviously didn't get my crappy idea.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 6, 2019 21:37:22 GMT -5
Also in the bible is the promise that whatever was asked in Jesus' name would be granted. I think it is clear that this is not always the case. I am not certain anyone is blaspheming god. It is just a question that the atheists cannot answer and they ask theists about that situation. "How can god condone child abuse?"This is not an answer. This is a "Wait until your father gets home response" because the parents is powerless to control the child. They may face the legal system but not because of god. It is only in the last 50 years that humans have been taking actions to protect children. In the past 6000 years god has done nothing. The question isn't whether god has the power but why theists believe s/he does when there is no evidence. No you can’t find the evidence now. But after this old earth and heaven have passed away, I’d like to hear you rethink the issue after the fiery pit reveals the “wailing and gnashing of teeth “! BTW, God did give the first “laws” guiding trespassers punishments for their evil deeds. All other laws throughout the ages show a remarkable kinship to them. You can’t say God hasn’t done anything! Are there any records of the first laws?
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 6, 2019 23:25:17 GMT -5
No you can’t find the evidence now. But after this old earth and heaven have passed away, I’d like to hear you rethink the issue after the fiery pit reveals the “wailing and gnashing of teeth “! BTW, God did give the first “laws” guiding trespassers punishments for their evil deeds. All other laws throughout the ages show a remarkable kinship to them. You can’t say God hasn’t done anything! Are there any records of the first laws? Ten commsndments
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Post by BobWilliston on May 7, 2019 0:13:37 GMT -5
Are there any records of the first laws? Ten commsndments You don't think there were laws before that?
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 7, 2019 10:08:10 GMT -5
You don't think there were laws before that? Different societies had their norms. The old saying when in another country behave like that country’s inhabitants. When in Rome... The international laws govern these days however it still is that each country/ society has its laws/norms for peaceful coexistence. Some more to the degree then some.
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Post by rational on May 7, 2019 10:34:55 GMT -5
No you can’t find the evidence now. But after this old earth and heaven have passed away, I’d like to hear you rethink the issue after the fiery pit reveals the “wailing and gnashing of teeth “! This will give little comfort to the children who are being abused even while you are reading this. And since atheists have been sentenced to the “wailing and gnashing of teeth “ what additional punishment will ne meted out to the child abusers? You mean like the laws concerning the sale of a daughter? Or the killing of disobedient children? Or the commandments regarding the treatment of menstruating children? The "eye for an eye" idea? What laws and their punishment recorded as being from god are still in effect?
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 7, 2019 11:30:22 GMT -5
No you can’t find the evidence now. But after this old earth and heaven have passed away, I’d like to hear you rethink the issue after the fiery pit reveals the “wailing and gnashing of teeth “! This will give little comfort to the children who are being abused even while you are reading this. And since atheists have been sentenced to the “wailing and gnashing of teeth “ what additional punishment will ne meted out to the child abusers? You mean like the laws concerning the sale of a daughter? Or the killing of disobedient children? Or the commandments regarding the treatment of menstruating children? The "eye for an eye" idea? What laws and their punishment recorded as being from god are still in effect? Jesus said that anyone that would offend any of these little ones, that it would be better that a milestone be fastened around his neck and tossed into the sea. Sounds pretty ominous to me
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Post by rational on May 7, 2019 12:34:33 GMT -5
This will give little comfort to the children who are being abused even while you are reading this. And since atheists have been sentenced to the “wailing and gnashing of teeth “ what additional punishment will ne meted out to the child abusers? You mean like the laws concerning the sale of a daughter? Or the killing of disobedient children? Or the commandments regarding the treatment of menstruating children? The "eye for an eye" idea? What laws and their punishment recorded as being from god are still in effect? Jesus said that anyone that would offend any of these little ones, that it would be better that a milestone be fastened around his neck and tossed into the sea. Sounds pretty ominous to me But it is well known that the "little ones" were not children at all but the people who had begun to follow Jesus. But on the other hand drowning or existing while wailing and gnashing teeth - drowning sounds like the easy out...
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Post by snow on May 7, 2019 12:52:17 GMT -5
Are there any records of the first laws? Ten commsndments I've always thought the ten commandments would have been a good place for God to command that no one own another person.
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Post by rational on May 7, 2019 15:15:02 GMT -5
I've always thought the ten commandments would have been a good place for God to command that no one own another person. I am glad the ten commandments were not all made into laws.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 7, 2019 15:15:49 GMT -5
You don't think there were laws before that? Different societies had their norms. The old saying when in another country behave like that country’s inhabitants. When in Rome... The international laws govern these days however it still is that each country/ society has its laws/norms for peaceful coexistence. Some more to the degree then some. Clever non-answer.
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Post by snow on May 7, 2019 15:38:38 GMT -5
I've always thought the ten commandments would have been a good place for God to command that no one own another person. I am glad the ten commandments were not all made into laws. Me too.
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Post by snow on May 7, 2019 15:40:18 GMT -5
Different societies had their norms. The old saying when in another country behave like that country’s inhabitants. When in Rome... The international laws govern these days however it still is that each country/ society has its laws/norms for peaceful coexistence. Some more to the degree then some. Clever non-answer. When people justify what god allowed in the OT, say it was the 'times', I have to ask. When has it ever been moral to own another person or stone your child for not obeying etc.
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Post by rational on May 7, 2019 17:08:12 GMT -5
Are there any records of the first laws? Ten commsndments Code of Hammurabi or perhaps the Code of Ur-Nammu. Or the basic laws which were in place in Egypt between 6,000 - 5,000 BCE. God only copied from the best!
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 17:29:58 GMT -5
You don't think there were laws before that? well there are the supposed noahide laws...
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