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Post by matisse on Apr 25, 2019 9:51:20 GMT -5
You can't have a program like that go to air without some consequences. You can in the Unchanging Way of Truth. Here is a newspaper article from 23 years ago. Does this sound familiar? When a whole generation passes and there is no change, it is time for the "decent professing people" to realize that they are just fooling themselves. Your presence is merely providing cover and camoflage for the predators that the overseers are sheltering. If you left, law enforcement would find it much easier to identify the problems and deal with the corruption and evil.  Decent Friends who stay in the group are not helping |
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Post by snow on Apr 25, 2019 12:22:28 GMT -5
But is it really Allan Kitto's fault all by himself? I'm sure he was just upholding the mentality as he knew it, learned it. Is he really that different from all the other workers? I guess there needs to be a scapegoat, but I really don't think he's any more to blame for the way it was handled than the other workers. He did what he thought was expected of him and therein lies the deep problem. Look at how JF handled the CSA in his part of the States. Not much different. Until all the workers come on board, head workers are going to be just upholding what the rest of them want. Look what happened to that worker in New Zealand that talked about it from the pulpit. He is no longer a worker. So when workers do speak out against it, there is no assurance that they will be listened to or appreciated for trying to change things. yep. I actually agree that indeed those who do this extreme evil are a few bad apples, and definitely don't represent a culture of condoning CSA. That is always the case. The issue (that snow highlights) is that the good apples have been made to applesauce already, and those that haven't are hastily heaved from the barrel. I don't think they condone CSA, but they seem to ignore it so that they can protect the reputation of their church. That just gives them a worse reputation though. I wonder why they can't see that. Hopefully they will start to understand that soon. |
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Post by snow on Apr 25, 2019 12:27:16 GMT -5
You can't have a program like that go to air without some consequences. You can in the Unchanging Way of Truth. Here is a newspaper article from 23 years ago. Does this sound familiar? When a whole generation passes and there is no change, it is time for the "decent professing people" to realize that they are just fooling themselves. Your presence is merely providing cover and camoflage for the predators that the overseers are sheltering. If you left, law enforcement would find it much easier to identify the problems and deal with the corruption and evil. Decent Friends who stay in the group are not helping Actually, they might be the only ones that can change it. The workers are more likely to listen to those on the inside than 'bitter exes' or 'the world' that just persecutes because of who they are. I know some that stay in to try and make a change. They work hard at it too. So it's not as simple as all the decent ones leaving, unless you want the church to disappear completely. I wouldn't want to see that, at least not as long as there are other churches still around. They do offer a different way of worshiping that appeals and works for some. |
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Post by snow on Apr 25, 2019 12:29:16 GMT -5
But is it really Allan Kitto's fault all by himself? I'm sure he was just upholding the mentality as he knew it, learned it. Is he really that different from all the other workers? I guess there needs to be a scapegoat, but I really don't think he's any more to blame for the way it was handled than the other workers. He did what he thought was expected of him and therein lies the deep problem. Look at how JF handled the CSA in his part of the States. Not much different. Until all the workers come on board, head workers are going to be just upholding what the rest of them want. Look what happened to that worker in New Zealand that talked about it from the pulpit. He is no longer a worker. So when workers do speak out against it, there is no assurance that they will be listened to or appreciated for trying to change things. I don’t see that the attitudes here in US have changed that much. Though the JP instance was not about CSA, but sexual behavior between workers; and JP was the one who is suffering the worst for reporting the carrying on. Who is JP? I was talking about how Jerome Frandle handled the csa in the states. |
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Post by mountain on Apr 25, 2019 15:21:41 GMT -5
Shunning the victims is still their way of handling it - anything to keep them quiet. When it's backs to the wall time, the Ministry will see itself as being the victim and act accordingly, irrespective of what comes to light. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 25, 2019 16:03:40 GMT -5
I don’t see that the attitudes here in US have changed that much. Though the JP instance was not about CSA, but sexual behavior between workers; and JP was the one who is suffering the worst for reporting the carrying on. Who is JP? I was talking about how Jerome Frandle handled the csa in the states. Sorry, I was referring to you mentioning the worker being ousted for speaking out against CSA. JP is the one in the Kansas issue that reported a peer brother and sister workers’ affair and was sent home for it. |
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Post by snow on Apr 26, 2019 12:23:12 GMT -5
Who is JP? I was talking about how Jerome Frandle handled the csa in the states. Sorry, I was referring to you mentioning the worker being ousted for speaking out against CSA. JP is the one in the Kansas issue that reported a peer brother and sister workers’ affair and was sent home for it. Oh I see, thanks STR |
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Post by withlove on Jun 16, 2019 19:22:25 GMT -5
Upholding what other people want is not an excuse, no matter where one fits in or outside of the power structure.
EVERYONE CAN BE A GRAHAM!
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Post by nathan on Jun 16, 2019 21:45:58 GMT -5
I wonder how they will respond? Will they excommunicate anyone who mentions watching the video? Allan Kitto is discussed at length for his handling of some cases. I watched it on YouTube. Sad, sad, sad. A few bad apples, as they say can spoil the whole lot. But I don't think that will happen. We have enough good and sincere workers who have been working for some time to correct this problem. Catholics still have not fixed their problem. I think they are trying though. We will get this corrected.
The overseers in USA encourage the workers and the friends report CSA to the authority ASAP or they can get in trouble with the laws. They remember and heard about Jerome F. and his co-worker almost go to prison for NOT reporting one of his workers on CSA a few years back.
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Post by magpie1 on Jun 17, 2019 0:41:36 GMT -5
Of course they are scared,to have their ungodly attitude towards the victims of their unatural celibates criminal CSA (Remember that in 1 Corinthians that only two were not Married?) So no Pastoral care www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT7rcvFmgFE .. a little on a complete mimistry=the Gifts Jesus gave the Church...Magpie |
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Post by magpie1 on Jun 17, 2019 0:46:37 GMT -5
Hi Snow,would you feel bitter and be an "EX",if you was also CSA molested by a 2x2 preachers,or a friend of or relative?? Or finding out they deny the Deity of the Holy Spirit,which leaves God out of everything they say and do. Remember the only "unforgivable sin" is just that
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Post by obieone on Jun 17, 2019 6:27:19 GMT -5
I don’t see or hear anything about the 60 minutes piece in the Southeastern US. Only read about it here. No one is talking about it or even knows about it here. Don’t think there will be much if any changes coming here.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 17, 2019 8:28:44 GMT -5
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jun 17, 2019 11:11:27 GMT -5
Hi Snow,would you feel bitter and be an "EX",if you was also CSA molested by a 2x2 preachers,or a friend of or relative?? Or finding out they deny the Deity of the Holy Spirit,which leaves God out of everything they say and do. Remember the only "unforgivable sin" is just that I’ve never heard any two by two deny the deity of the Holy Spirit! Fact is little is said about the Holy Spirit exceptcwhat ine reads in the NT. They deny the deity of Jesus Christ! |
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Post by nathan on Jun 17, 2019 12:28:40 GMT -5
Hi Snow,would you feel bitter and be an "EX",if you was also CSA molested by a 2x2 preachers,or a friend of or relative?? Or finding out they deny the Deity of the Holy Spirit,which leaves God out of everything they say and do. Remember the only "unforgivable sin" is just that I’ve never heard any two by two deny the deity of the Holy Spirit! Fact is little is said about the Holy Spirit exceptcwhat ine reads in the NT. They deny the deity of Jesus Christ! *** Most workers and friends believe Jesus is the Son of God= Deity. The 2x2s do NOT fully understand the Godhead or who they are. They believe and worship in Sunday morning gathering God the Father, Jesus the Son of God and the Holy Spirit. The 2x2s believe the word God refers ONLY to the Father and NOT the Son! Or the Holy Spirit What the 2x2s don't understand the word Elohim/God is plural= God the Father, Christ our Lord/God Savior, and Holy Spirit/God. Well, most of the early 2x2 workers believe in the Trinity, the Godhead= Father, Christ and Holy Spirit. The Deity of Christ/God. They worship the Godhead in the Sunday morning worship gathering around the world. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jun 17, 2019 12:50:54 GMT -5
I’ve never heard any two by two deny the deity of the Holy Spirit! Fact is little is said about the Holy Spirit exceptcwhat ine reads in the NT. They deny the deity of Jesus Christ! *** Most workers and friends believe Jesus is the Son of God= Deity. The 2x2s do NOT fully understand the Godhead or who they are. They believe and worship in Sunday morning gathering God the Father, Jesus the Son of God and the Holy Spirit. The 2x2s believe the word God refers ONLY to the Father and NOT the Son! Or the Holy Spirit What the 2x2s don't understand the word Elohim/God is plural= God the Father, Christ our Lord/God Savior, and Holy Spirit/God. Well, most of the early exe workers believe in the Trinity, the Godhead= Father, Christ and Holy Spirit. The Deity of Christ/God. They worship the Godhead in the Sunday morning worship gathering around the world. That’s a lot of the problem , is they don’t truly understand who Jesus is. Nor do they understand about the Holy Spirit. Their scriptural understanding is basic. That is for many, many of them. There are some who understand more but don’t seem to dare speak up about what they’re understanding. So everybody remains in the same “I’m glad for the workers.” It is very, very sad that their unders never gets beyond the milkdrop of th word. |
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Post by nathan on Jun 17, 2019 16:28:56 GMT -5
*** Most workers and friends believe Jesus is the Son of God= Deity. The 2x2s do NOT fully understand the Godhead or who they are. They believe and worship in Sunday morning gathering God the Father, Jesus the Son of God and the Holy Spirit. The 2x2s believe the word God refers ONLY to the Father and NOT the Son! Or the Holy Spirit What the 2x2s don't understand the word Elohim/God is plural= God the Father, Christ our Lord/God Savior, and Holy Spirit/God. Well, most of the early exe workers believe in the Trinity, the Godhead= Father, Christ and Holy Spirit. The Deity of Christ/God. They worship the Godhead in the Sunday morning worship gathering around the world. That’s a lot of the problem , is they don’t truly understand who Jesus is. Nor do they understand about the Holy Spirit. Their scriptural understanding is basic. That is for many, many of them. There are some who understand more but don’t seem to dare speak up about what they’re understanding. So everybody remains in the same “I’m glad for the workers.” It is very, very sad that their unders never gets beyond the milkdrop of th word. ** Yea, I KNOW... I wish there were/are workers like John Wegter among us who had good and a clear understanding of the Godhead, and Christ/Jesus the second Person/Deity of the Godhead, and the Holy Spirit who is also God/Godhead. I have preserved the study and sermon of John Wegter on the Godhead and Deity of Christ/Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I enjoy studying and reading his understanding on the Godhead and Christ is also God like into the Father. |
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Post by joanna on Jun 17, 2019 20:16:23 GMT -5
So tragic for that poor woman Rebecca Ginestar, who was the victim of CSA and then ignored by the 2x2 workers. She was trying to motivate them to prevent future victims and the combined stress would surely not have helped her health.
If only those who refused to heed her could be brought to justice along with the perpetrator.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 1:02:32 GMT -5
So tragic for that poor woman Rebecca Ginestar, who was the victim of CSA and then ignored by the 2x2 workers. She was trying to motivate them to prevent future victims and the combined stress would surely not have helped her health. If only those who refused to heed her could be brought to justice along with the perpetrator. If only. But we very righteously value mercy, as Christ was merciful, and not justice in our church. Sorry - did I say "in"? I meant "for". Mercy for our church. Let justice be done on the others! 'We are the faithful chosen few, let all the rest be damned. There's room enough in hell for you, we don't want heaven crammed!' -Hitch |
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Post by Lee on Jun 22, 2019 11:41:51 GMT -5
Well said.
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Post by snow on Jun 22, 2019 16:33:02 GMT -5
So tragic for that poor woman Rebecca Ginestar, who was the victim of CSA and then ignored by the 2x2 workers. She was trying to motivate them to prevent future victims and the combined stress would surely not have helped her health. If only those who refused to heed her could be brought to justice along with the perpetrator. If only. But we very righteously value mercy, as Christ was merciful, and not justice in our church. Sorry - did I say "in"? I meant "for". Mercy for our church. Let justice be done on the others! 'We are the faithful chosen few, let all the rest be damned. There's room enough in hell for you, we don't want heaven crammed!' -Hitch Hitch did have a way with words! |
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Post by joanna on Jun 22, 2019 18:45:17 GMT -5
@ipsedixit .
How was Christ merciful?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 21:08:59 GMT -5
@ipsedixit . How was Christ merciful? instead of punishing us as we deserve he extended mercy and sacrificed himself for our benefit.... |
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Post by mountain on Jun 23, 2019 3:53:07 GMT -5
For a correct understanding of the rarely used term 'Godhead' in the Bible, one should consult their concordance, which give the true meaning and alternative translations. It is mainly defined as 'God, Godly or Godliness.' Put these definitions into the passages instead of the misapplied 'Godhead' and it not only simplifies, but transforms our understanding of what the writer has meant.
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Post by fixit on Jun 23, 2019 4:28:46 GMT -5
For a correct understanding of the rarely used term 'Godhead' in the Bible, one should consult their concordance, which give the true meaning and alternative translations. It is mainly defined as 'God, Godly or Godliness.' Put these definitions into the passages instead of the misapplied 'Godhead' and it not only simplifies, but transforms our understanding of what the writer has meant. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. |
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Post by nathan on Jun 23, 2019 9:38:46 GMT -5
If only. But we very righteously value mercy, as Christ was merciful, and not justice in our church. Sorry - did I say "in"? I meant "for". Mercy for our church. Let justice be done on the others! 'We are the faithful chosen few, let all the rest be damned. There's room enough in hell for you, we don't want heaven crammed!' -Hitch Hitch did have a way with words!
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. |
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Post by snow on Jun 23, 2019 16:10:38 GMT -5
Hitch did have a way with words!
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Interesting, are you actually putting Hitch and Jesus on the same level of importance? I think Hitch was by far the more rational of the two. |
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Post by nathan on Jun 23, 2019 18:31:18 GMT -5
Here are Jesus own teachings in Matthew 7:13-23
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Interesting, are you actually putting Hitch and Jesus on the same level of importance? I think Hitch was by far the more rational of the two. |
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