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Post by CherieKropp on Apr 1, 2019 14:53:42 GMT -5
www.newsletter.co.uk/lifestyle/nostalgia/dedicated-followers-of-fiery-evangelist-renowned-for-favouring-modest-living-1-8846219See photos in link above. Text copied below. Source: Newsletter.co.uk Posted March 13, 2019
Heading: Dedicated followers of fiery evangelist renowned for favouring modest living
Crocknacrieve House photographed in 2004 The background to a collection of old group-photographs from 1913, shown here a month ago, has been revealed over the past week thanks to some helpful News Letter readers. The photos were of immaculately period-dressed men and women and also of cooks and kitchen staff in aprons, taken outside a house called Crocknacrieve, though only the door of the ivy-clad house was visible behind the various groupings of people. Photograph c 1957 of Edward Cooney With information supplied by Henry Robinson, chairman of the Ballinamallard Historical Society, we now know that Ballinamallard was the centre of a worldwide religious movement known as The Cooneyites in the early 20th century. The movement had originated in Scotland but it was Fermanagh man Edward Cooney who became the leading light and thus his adherents were known as Cooneyites, though they didn’t like the terminology. Around a thousand people flocked each summer to their month-long convention at Crocknacrieve, the Cooneyites’ main venue in Ireland, and Mr Robinson today shares a photo of the house taken in 2004. The first convention was held there in 1907 and, as numbers grew, marquees were erected in the grounds, with overflow accommodation at nearby Mullaghmeen. Photo of Women's fashion at Crocknacrieve “From 1913 several smaller conventions replaced the single large convention,” Mr Robinson explained, “and they ceased at Crocknacrieve in 1921.” A note from Joan Carson began: “I found your article about the Dippers/Cooneyites very interesting.” Mr Robinson explained last week that the movement’s adherents were also known as ‘Go Preachers’ and it seems that they were sometimes called Dippers because baptism was an important part of their faith. An article in the local Impartial Reporter newspaper in July 1913 recounted “The Pilgrims immerse their converts, and a pond is used for this purpose at Crocknacrieve. The ceremony is an interesting one. The immersion is performed by one or more members of the fellowship. The convert is caught by the arms and lowered backwards beneath the water for a few seconds. The clothes worn are changed immediately afterwards in a tent provided for the purpose, and so, as a rule, no chill follows.” Photo: Dedicated followers of Edward Cooney at Crocknacrieve Joan Carson’s letter continued “they still had a strong gathering at Drumgay (on the edge of Enniskillen) when we lived there in the 1960s. The farm buildings were cleaned out, scrubbed and whitewashed. They cleared out the haysheds and the delegates slept on straw mattresses. Before dawn we would be wakened up with the sound of tramping feet as crowds walked the road before breakfast”. Joan referred to quite a large number of local families and individuals who belonged to the organisation, including a Miss Fanny Seaman, with an address on a lakeside road called The Brook, in Enniskillen. “Miss Seaman lived in Number 2 The Brook, next door to my mother. She ran a little dress shop in her front room for the lady members of the Cooneyites. Long Gore-ray (pleated, classically-tailored) and tweed skirts, heavy stockings, long cashmere cardigans and jumpers and also long-sleeved blouses - all extremely expensive. Money didn’t seem to matter to her clients.” Joan explained that the organisation “didn’t believe in educating girls much after 15 years old. A girl in my class at school left after Junior Certificate. I saw her a couple of years later with a young toddler and she was expecting another child. She’d been married to an elderly farmer from over the border. I can remember old Edward Cooney with a great big long beard preaching in the centre of Enniskillen”. Roamer wondered if Joan stopped to listen “I was too scared!” she retorted, a memory supported by an article in the News Letter in February 1971, marking the 10th anniversary of the death of Edward Cooney. “During his lifetime both he and his followers were jeered in many Ulster towns. Meeting halls were denied them and the sect was denounced from many pulpits. Much of the opprobrium was drawn by the utterances of Cooney himself. “He was not a man to mince his words and his attacks on established religion were vehement. On occasions he preached at people leaving church, pouring scorn on their clergy and their rituals. “Naturally, many were angered when tongue-lashed by a wild-looking man with a long, shaggy beard and they reacted violently. On several occasions Cooney was ‘run out of town’ by angry mobs. ‘Cooneyite’ was almost a term of abuse in many parts of Ulster, but today the word is more likely to raise an indulgent smile than a frown.” The 1971 article also outlined some of their beliefs, observances and “very strict standards of behaviour”. Members believed that “the purity of Christ’s teachings has been lost by the churches, that worship has become too formalised through ritual and that the basic simplicity of Christianity should be restored. They meet in small groups in the homes of members, favour modest living and black clothes”. Edward Cooney was 34 years of age when he decided he should live like Christ. He turned his back on the comforts of a prosperous home and took to the roads. For the remainder of his long life – he died at 93 – he travelled on foot and by bicycle all over Ireland, preaching. He refused gifts of money but accepted food and lodging where it was offered. He took literally Christ’s instructions to the rich young man…give your possessions to the poor.
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Post by snow on Apr 2, 2019 9:47:44 GMT -5
Wow, Edward Cooney certainly took his 'mission' seriously. You sure don't see any of his ex colleagues refusing to take money. If the workers actually just took food and lodging and didn't take money, they might be more credible when they say say they live like Jesus and the apostles.
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Post by nathan on Jun 30, 2019 21:34:21 GMT -5
Wow, Edward Cooney certainly took his 'mission' seriously. You sure don't see any of his ex colleagues refusing to take money. If the workers actually just took food and lodging and didn't take money, they might be more credible when they say they live like Jesus and the apostles. What? Jesus had Judas hold the money bag for the group. We read in the gospel of John 4 Jesus stayed and talked to the Samaritan woman at the well, and the disciples went into towns to buy food for him, so they had money.
We read in Acts the believers sold their properties and laid the money at the apostles feet. Paul must have gotten money from somewhere for him and his co-workers traveled far and wide with their 3 gospel missions in Acts. They didn't walk on the water or swim from coast to coast to get around.
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Post by snow on Jun 30, 2019 21:45:18 GMT -5
Wow, Edward Cooney certainly took his 'mission' seriously. You sure don't see any of his ex colleagues refusing to take money. If the workers actually just took food and lodging and didn't take money, they might be more credible when they say they live like Jesus and the apostles. What? Jesus had Judas hold the money bag for the group. We read in the gospel of John 4 Jesus stayed and talked to the Samaritan woman at the well, and the disciples went into towns to buy food for him, so they had money.
We read in Acts the believers sold their properties and laid the money at the apostles feet. Paul must have gotten money from somewhere for him and his co-workers traveled far and wide with their 3 gospel missions in Acts. They didn't walk on the water or swim from coast to coast to get around.Paul worked. So did some of the apostles. They didn't preach all the time. They did stay in people's homes when traveling, but they didn't just stay in one place and live in people's homes. They had their own homes and some even had a wife and family.
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Post by nathan on Jun 30, 2019 21:52:47 GMT -5
What? Jesus had Judas hold the money bag for the group. We read in the gospel of John 4 Jesus stayed and talked to the Samaritan woman at the well, and the disciples went into towns to buy food for him, so they had money.
We read in Acts the believers sold their properties and laid the money at the apostles feet. Paul must have gotten money from somewhere for him and his co-workers traveled far and wide with their 3 gospel missions in Acts. They didn't walk on the water or swim from coast to coast to get around. Paul worked. So did some of the apostles. They didn't preach all the time. They did stay in people's homes when traveling, but they didn't just stay in one place and live in people's homes. They had their own homes and some even had a wife and family. Paul and his co-workers worked with their hands because the believers at Corinth called them false apostles, no food, no homes to stay! They had to work as tent makers with their hands to survive. Did Jesus, the 12 apostles work at any job, during their time with him as the preacher? Which job did Jesus have or the 12 apostles had? what were they.
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Post by snow on Jun 30, 2019 22:03:24 GMT -5
Paul worked. So did some of the apostles. They didn't preach all the time. They did stay in people's homes when traveling, but they didn't just stay in one place and live in people's homes. They had their own homes and some even had a wife and family. Paul and his co-workers worked with their hands because the believers at Corinth called them false apostles, no food, no homes to stay! They had to work as tent makers with their hands to survive. Did Jesus, the 12 apostles work at any job, during their time with him as the preacher? Which job did Jesus have or the 12 apostles had? what were they.
One was a doctor, one was a tax collector and some were fishermen. When they weren't traveling and preaching I'm sure they worked in their former trades. How else would Peter, for example, have supported his wife and family? The workers could do that too. If Paul was able to preach and work out of necessity, is there some reason why the workers can't work and preach too. Maybe they wouldn't be so inclined to micro manage all of the friends lives if they actually had a life too.
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Post by nathan on Jun 30, 2019 23:19:43 GMT -5
Paul and his co-workers worked with their hands because the believers at Corinth called them false apostles, no food, no homes to stay! They had to work as tent makers with their hands to survive. Did Jesus, the 12 apostles work at any job, during their time with him as the preacher? Which job did Jesus have or the 12 apostles had? what were they. 1) One was a doctor, one was a tax collector and some were fishermen. When they weren't traveling and preaching I'm sure they worked in their former trades. How else would Peter, for example, have supported his wife and family? ~~ Do you read the name of Peter's wife in the gospels? or did he have any children? preaching is their full time job. That was why Jesus left his occupation and went forth preaching full time as Preacher of the gospel.
2) The workers could do that too. If Paul was able to preach and work out of necessity, is there some reason why the workers can't work and preach too. Maybe they wouldn't be so inclined to micro manage all of the friends lives if they actually had a life too. Paul wrote they who preach the gospel MUST live by the gospel! Preaching the gospel to ALL nations is their full time job for God feeding the lambs and sheep in the house hold of God.
Paul wrote in I Cor. 9:-14 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 30, 2019 23:24:51 GMT -5
1) One was a doctor, one was a tax collector and some were fishermen. When they weren't traveling and preaching I'm sure they worked in their former trades. How else would Peter, for example, have supported his wife and family? ~~ Do you read the name of Peter's wife in the gospels? or did he have any children? preaching is their full time job. That was why Jesus left his occupation and went forth preaching full time as Preacher of the gospel.
2) The workers could do that too. If Paul was able to preach and work out of necessity, is there some reason why the workers can't work and preach too. Maybe they wouldn't be so inclined to micro manage all of the friends lives if they actually had a life too. Paul wrote they who preach the gospel MUST live by the gospel! Preaching the gospel to ALL nations is their full time job for God feeding the lambs and sheep in the house hold of God.
Paul wrote in I Cor. 9:-14 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.I heard a whole sermon about Peter's wife at convention in Elizabeth a few years ago. But since the worker didn't know her name, maybe she was lying about it after all.
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Post by nathan on Jun 30, 2019 23:33:34 GMT -5
I heard a whole sermon about Peter's wife at convention in Elizabeth a few years ago. But since the worker didn't know her name, maybe she was lying about it after all. The healing of the mother of Peter's wife is one of the miracles of Jesus in the Gospels, reported in Matthew 8:14–15, Mark 1:29–31, and Luke 4:38–41. There is no mention of Peter's wife or her name in the gospels.
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Post by snow on Jul 1, 2019 14:49:14 GMT -5
I heard a whole sermon about Peter's wife at convention in Elizabeth a few years ago. But since the worker didn't know her name, maybe she was lying about it after all. The healing of the mother of Peter's wife is one of the miracles of Jesus in the Gospels, reported in Matthew 8:14–15, Mark 1:29–31, and Luke 4:38–41. There is no mention of Peter's wife or her name in the gospels.Well if Peter's wife's mother was healed by Jesus, then Peter's wife was mentioned. The names of women in the Bible are usually left out. But Peter's wife was definitely spoken of so why would you say she wasn't mentioned when she obviously was? No where in the bible does it say that spreading the gospel was a full time job. Paul obviously worked AND spread the gospel so there is zero reason why the others didn't also. For what the workers do these days, there is no reason why they couldn't at least have part time work to keep them busy. Visiting the friends doesn't need to be a full time job. They would probably have a better lifestyle and less burn out if they did have work separate from 'the work'.
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Post by nathan on Jul 1, 2019 15:24:48 GMT -5
The healing of the mother of Peter's wife is one of the miracles of Jesus in the Gospels, reported in Matthew 8:14–15, Mark 1:29–31, and Luke 4:38–41. There is no mention of Peter's wife or her name in the gospels. Well if Peter's wife's mother was healed by Jesus, then Peter's wife was mentioned. The names of women in the Bible are usually left out. But Peter's wife was definitely spoken of so why would you say she wasn't mentioned when she obviously was? No where in the bible does it say that spreading the gospel was a full time job. Paul obviously worked AND spread the gospel so there is zero reason why the others didn't also. For what the workers do these days, there is no reason why they couldn't at least have part time work to keep them busy. Visiting the friends doesn't need to be a full time job. They would probably have a better lifestyle and less burn out if they did have work separate from 'the work'. ** well, we must agree to disagree on this one.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 1, 2019 18:32:44 GMT -5
I heard a whole sermon about Peter's wife at convention in Elizabeth a few years ago. But since the worker didn't know her name, maybe she was lying about it after all. The healing of the mother of Peter's wife is one of the miracles of Jesus in the Gospels, reported in Matthew 8:14–15, Mark 1:29–31, and Luke 4:38–41. There is no mention of Peter's wife or her name in the gospels.Do you suppose Peter divorced her before he went preaching?
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Post by nathan on Jul 1, 2019 20:01:33 GMT -5
The healing of the mother of Peter's wife is one of the miracles of Jesus in the Gospels, reported in Matthew 8:14–15, Mark 1:29–31, and Luke 4:38–41. There is no mention of Peter's wife or her name in the gospels. Do you suppose Peter divorced her before he went preaching? ** I believed she might have died before Jesus called him as an apostle.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 1, 2019 20:04:58 GMT -5
Do you suppose Peter divorced her before he went preaching? ** I believed she might have died before Jesus called him as an apostle. Maybe he had a second wife. Who would know?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2019 20:13:57 GMT -5
Do you suppose Peter divorced her before he went preaching? ** I believed she might have died before Jesus called him as an apostle. i am inclined to believe she had already died before he was an apostle too....but there is a rumor started by clement of alexandria that she died with him(peter)when he was crucified and that as she went to her death he called out words of encouragement to her....
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Post by nathan on Jul 1, 2019 20:17:17 GMT -5
** I believed she might have died before Jesus called him as an apostle. i am inclined to believe she had already died before he was an apostle too....but there is a rumor started by clement of alexandria that she died with him(peter)when he was crucified and that as she went to her death he called out words of encouragement to her.... I read that too, Wally... and I Cor. 9:5 Paul wrote " Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas/Peter?" So, Peter could have been remarried after Jesus resurrected or in the book of Acts of the apostles.
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Post by snow on Jul 2, 2019 18:37:24 GMT -5
i am inclined to believe she had already died before he was an apostle too....but there is a rumor started by clement of alexandria that she died with him(peter)when he was crucified and that as she went to her death he called out words of encouragement to her.... I read that too, Wally... and I Cor. 9:5 Paul wrote " Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas/Peter?" So, Peter could have been remarried after Jesus resurrected or in the book of Acts of the apostles.Or he was married to the same woman all the time and it didn't matter.
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Post by nathan on Jul 3, 2019 0:27:53 GMT -5
I read that too, Wally... and I Cor. 9:5 Paul wrote " Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas/Peter?" So, Peter could have been remarried after Jesus resurrected or in the book of Acts of the apostles. Or he was married to the same woman all the time and it didn't matter. Well, there was no mention of her or her name in the gospels, and in the book of Acts that she accompanied him in any of his journey or missions.
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Post by snow on Jul 3, 2019 14:59:29 GMT -5
Or he was married to the same woman all the time and it didn't matter. Well, there was no mention of her or her name in the gospels, and in the book of Acts that she accompanied him in any of his journey or missions.Not many women's names are mentioned in the bible. Especially if they played a non-essential part. But it clearly states that he was married or he wouldn't have a mother in law. She wouldn't likely go with him when he went out preaching. She likely stayed home and cared for their family. You are the first to claim that the bible isn't complete. Why would you not allow that Peter was married and likely had children like the Hebrew law stated you should if you were a man.
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Post by nathan on Jul 3, 2019 20:13:52 GMT -5
Well, there was no mention of her or her name in the gospels, and in the book of Acts that she accompanied him in any of his journey or missions. Not many women's names are mentioned in the bible. Especially if they played a non-essential part. But it clearly states that he was married or he wouldn't have a mother in law. She wouldn't likely go with him when he went out preaching. She likely stayed home and cared for their family. You are the first to claim that the bible isn't complete. Why would you not allow that Peter was married and likely had children like the Hebrew law stated you should if you were a man. You need to read Romans 16 There are a long list of many women names mentioned there by Paul. Like I said Peter was MARRIED and his wife could have died when Jesus called him because we read about his mother in law.
Apostles/Workers life is VERY complicated, they travel on the road constantly, no homes of their own that they can go to every night, eat whatever foods given them to eat, no-privacy! whatsoever... Go! wherever they were sent, and with whomever at any given time. So, having wife and children would be very impractical! It can be done but it put a lot of stress on the wife and children moving all the time, changing schools, making new friends every 3 yrs. It can put a lot of stress on the friends in the field also, to have the children running around, yelling and screaming!
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Post by snow on Jul 4, 2019 9:34:43 GMT -5
Not many women's names are mentioned in the bible. Especially if they played a non-essential part. But it clearly states that he was married or he wouldn't have a mother in law. She wouldn't likely go with him when he went out preaching. She likely stayed home and cared for their family. You are the first to claim that the bible isn't complete. Why would you not allow that Peter was married and likely had children like the Hebrew law stated you should if you were a man. You need to read Romans 16 There are a long list of many women names mentioned there by Paul. Like I said Peter was MARRIED and his wife could have died when Jesus called him because we read about his mother in law.
Apostles/Workers life is VERY complicated, they travel on the road constantly, no homes of their own that they can go to every night, eat whatever foods given them to eat, no-privacy! whatsoever... Go! wherever they were sent, and with whomever at any given time. So, having wife and children would be very impractical! It can be done but it put a lot of stress on the wife and children moving all the time, changing schools, making new friends every 3 yrs. It can put a lot of stress on the friends in the field also, to have the children running around, yelling and screaming!
You just can't assume she died when Jesus sent Peter out Nathan. I agree, the way it's set up now it would be impractical for workers to have families, but there is no reason why they can't be married, travel as a worker pair and just not have kids. But I think the point you are missing, that I'm trying to make, is that Jesus didn't say they couldn't be married with children and still preach or even have a job when not preaching.
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2019 15:05:52 GMT -5
You need to read Romans 16 There are a long list of many women names mentioned there by Paul. Like I said Peter was MARRIED and his wife could have died when Jesus called him because we read about his mother in law.
Apostles/Workers life is VERY complicated, they travel on the road constantly, no homes of their own that they can go to every night, eat whatever foods given them to eat, no-privacy! whatsoever... Go! wherever they were sent, and with whomever at any given time. So, having wife and children would be very impractical! It can be done but it put a lot of stress on the wife and children moving all the time, changing schools, making new friends every 3 yrs. It can put a lot of stress on the friends in the field also, to have the children running around, yelling and screaming!
You just can't assume she died when Jesus sent Peter out Nathan. I agree, the way it's set up now it would be impractical for workers to have families, but there is no reason why they can't be married, travel as a worker pair and just not have kids. But I think the point you are missing, that I'm trying to make, is that Jesus didn't say they couldn't be married with children and still preach or even have a job when not preaching. *** With the shortage of workers today, the overseers might allow married workers without children to start in the work again... I am for it 110%.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 17:06:00 GMT -5
I don’t think the world needs more workers. It would appear, they are only preaching to their flock. If you walked along the workers lines when standing for a photo and asked each one how instrumental they were in getting anyone profess that year.....I invisage the graph would read 1, 0, 3, 1, 0 , 1, 1, 0, 3.IMO These souls could be won into your fellowship by yourselves. Yes I know about “ how shall they hear .....” written for a religious culture hundreds of years ago but actually there’s some on here who claim every professing person is a worker or words to that effect. Mat_9:37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few; Mat 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.
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Post by Dennis J on Jul 4, 2019 21:39:58 GMT -5
I don’t think the world needs more workers. It would appear, they are only preaching to their flock. If you walked along the workers lines when standing for a photo and asked each one how instrumental they were in getting anyone profess that year.....I invisage the graph would read 1, 0, 3, 1, 0 , 1, 1, 0, 3.IMO These souls could be won into your fellowship by yourselves. Yes I know about “ how shall they hear .....” written for a religious culture hundreds of years ago but actually there’s some on here who claim every professing person is a worker or words to that effect. Mat_9:37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few; Mat 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest. Being one also indoctrinated to believe minister and worker to be synonymous, None were more adamant about it than myself. However, my Lord and God has revealed to me that is simply untrue unless one adheres only to the 2&2 preacher mindset. There is another possible way of looking at it. The OT alter of sacrifice was never to be approached by steps, or degrees. Have you never wondered why, nor what that might be symbolic of with regard to the kingdom of God found in The Son of God bringing that Kingdom within believers?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 4, 2019 21:45:10 GMT -5
You just can't assume she died when Jesus sent Peter out Nathan. I agree, the way it's set up now it would be impractical for workers to have families, but there is no reason why they can't be married, travel as a worker pair and just not have kids. But I think the point you are missing, that I'm trying to make, is that Jesus didn't say they couldn't be married with children and still preach or even have a job when not preaching. *** With the shortage of workers today, the overseers might allow married workers without children to start in the work again... I am for it 110%. You could try it now.
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Post by nathan on Jul 5, 2019 0:43:06 GMT -5
*** With the shortage of workers today, the overseers might allow married workers without children to start in the work again... I am for it 110%. You could try it now. No, Thanks... I like my freedom and privacy! I enjoy my place, where I am at. I can reach 100s of people a week and many through the Internet, they KNOW and trust me when I share the gospel of Jesus with them.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 5, 2019 1:40:54 GMT -5
No, Thanks... I like my freedom and privacy! I enjoy my place, where I am at. I can reach 100s of people a week and many through the Internet, they KNOW and trust me when I share the gospel of Jesus with them. I don't think they'd take you back anyway.
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Post by nathan on Jul 5, 2019 1:46:20 GMT -5
No, Thanks... I like my freedom and privacy! I enjoy my place, where I am at. I can reach 100s of people a week and many through the Internet, they KNOW and trust me when I share the gospel of Jesus with them. I don't think they'd take you back anyway. I don't want to go back either, life in a fish bow, too much stress for me. I like my privacy. Like I said I enjoy what I am doing NOW!
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