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Post by Grant on Mar 22, 2019 2:56:01 GMT -5
Thanks curly.
I'm also thinking that the people who were killed left their countries for a better safer life but instead they faced the very thing they hoped they had left behind. Feel for the Syrians who fled for safety but found none. As if the kids hadn't been through enough. Brings tears to ones eyes.
The gun man was anti immigrants and refugees. Immigrants from other faiths are just as at risk by white supremists but it appears they have been forgotten in this.
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Post by Lee on Mar 22, 2019 9:13:22 GMT -5
I would consider it an affront to my culture, my imploding christian-american culture, if Muslim songs were being aired in the wake of anything.
I don't like the Muslim religion. The religion isn't based on a transcendent figure, Christ. This means the religion must realize all aspects of salvation politically to make good on it's claims. It complements the atheistic movement.
I'm all for improving the human being. But I keep my eye on transcendence, a post death resurrection, or life, reality, and authority. I don't put all of my eggs in one basket.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Mar 22, 2019 13:08:00 GMT -5
I see little difference in between christianity and Islam or any other religion for that matter. They are all based on the imaginations of humans and invariably offer a false hope at the same time as claiming to be truth.
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Post by Lee on Mar 22, 2019 15:50:28 GMT -5
That means you have to pick politically from what's available to you.
By Christ, or by an evolutionary scenario, one has more options.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Mar 22, 2019 16:08:14 GMT -5
That means you have to pick politically from what's available to you. By Christ, or by an evolutionary scenario, one has more options. I have made a secular choice and if you read up on NZ you will find it is a secular country. That makes for much less impact from the witch doctors practicing their hocus pocus on the country.
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Post by Lee on Mar 22, 2019 16:18:25 GMT -5
And truncates their perspective, history, and horizons.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Mar 22, 2019 16:28:30 GMT -5
And truncates their perspective, history, and horizons. Lee, are you copying and pasting from somewhere without thinking about what you post? It appears that way to me. If something is false then it maybe convenient to know its history if only to not repeat it. Other than that, why would you want to know or study the perspective of a religion or study the horizons of it? It is much better to dwell in the here and now and make the most of our lives.
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Post by snow on Mar 22, 2019 16:29:24 GMT -5
United we stand, divided we fall. We have a world full of weapons that can kill us 100X over. Yet we cling to our old prejudices, old beliefs, old gods.
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Post by Lee on Mar 22, 2019 16:55:05 GMT -5
And truncates their perspective, history, and horizons. Lee, are you copying and pasting from somewhere without thinking about what you post? It appears that way to me. If something is false then it maybe convenient to know its history if only to not repeat it. Other than that, why would you want to know or study the perspective of a religion or study the horizons of it? It is much better to dwell in the here and now and make the most of our lives. I'm not certain a secular perspective or imperative is adequate to protect me from a Muslim theocracy.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 22, 2019 20:29:04 GMT -5
Lee, are you copying and pasting from somewhere without thinking about what you post? It appears that way to me. If something is false then it maybe convenient to know its history if only to not repeat it. Other than that, why would you want to know or study the perspective of a religion or study the horizons of it? It is much better to dwell in the here and now and make the most of our lives. I'm not certain a secular perspective or imperative is adequate to protect me from a Muslim theocracy. People should be more worried about a Christian Theocracy and White Identity groups and the knowledge that they are often in bed together.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 22, 2019 22:21:43 GMT -5
2 minutes silence was great but having the Islamic prayer broadcast on TV and all media outlets, to many including my self is divisive. Do the Muslims in NZ complain when Christians pray publicly. What would be divisive would be a Christian prayer in celebration of a Muslim tragedy. Does she refuse Christian prayer because she's agnostic? In Muslim democracies one can indeed expect such a thing. In dictatorships whatever the dictator wants is broadcast. Anyway -- it was an event in honor of massacred Muslims -- how polite would a Christian prayer sound. Sheesh - let them have the day. Calling a football team "Crusaders" is not like using the word "Islamic". Calling Muslim football players "crusaders" is indeed discordant, if not hostile on a couple of levels. Ironically, Muslims don't call themselves Islamic -- it's a word used to describe "things" related to Islam. That's not Muslim prayer. It's the call to prayer, like the whistle in a company time. No. Islamic prayer is not a whole lot different from a Caholic mass, except that Islamic prayer is mostly silent. Just some thoughts.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 22, 2019 22:28:37 GMT -5
I would consider it an affront to my culture, my imploding christian-american culture, if Muslim songs were being aired in the wake of anything. I don't like the Muslim religion. The religion isn't based on a transcendent figure, Christ. This means the religion must realize all aspects of salvation politically to make good on it's claims. It complements the atheistic movement. I'm all for improving the human being. But I keep my eye on transcendence, a post death resurrection, or life, reality, and authority. I don't put all of my eggs in one basket. Maybe some Muslim should pray at your funeral!
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 22, 2019 22:29:18 GMT -5
I'm not certain a secular perspective or imperative is adequate to protect me from a Muslim theocracy. People should be more worried about a Christian Theocracy and White Identity groups and the knowledge that they are often in bed together.
Absolutely right.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 22, 2019 22:51:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 23:09:08 GMT -5
sounds more like backdoor prepping for conversion to me in the case of headscarves....
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 22, 2019 23:50:01 GMT -5
sounds more like backdoor prepping for conversion to me in the case of headscarves.... It would give you a lot more targets to shoot at.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 23, 2019 0:45:20 GMT -5
I would consider it an affront to my culture, my imploding christian-american culture, if Muslim songs were being aired in the wake of anything. I don't like the Muslim religion. The religion isn't based on a transcendent figure, Christ. This means the religion must realize all aspects of salvation politically to make good on it's claims. It complements the atheistic movement. I'm all for improving the human being. But I keep my eye on transcendence, a post death resurrection, or life, reality, and authority. I don't put all of my eggs in one basket. Lee, maybe putting all of your "eggs in one basket" is nit the best idea. It is like wearing a monocle and looking at everything with just one eye.
You say that you don't like the Muslim religion. But just because I do not like all of the tenets of Christian religion, doesn't mean that I don't like Christians. It doesn't even mean I can't understand why many people are Christians. I do understand because of my own personal past experience.
But we need to take a larger view of all of humankind. Now more than ever because there are too many of us on in small space.
Otherwise this infighting among races & religions could bring about the very "apocalypse" -the end of the world & collapse of civilization that so many fear!
The tragedy is that the cause won't be due to an imaginary "angry GOD" -but because of our BELIEF in such a GOD!
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 23, 2019 2:08:19 GMT -5
2 minutes silence was great but having the Islamic prayer broadcast on TV and all media outlets, to many including my self is divisive. Doesn't make sense when the PM herself is agnostic. I doubt if Muslims play the Lord's prayer over loud speakers when a church gets bombed on a Muslim country. Do they even say the Lords prayer in parliament as the NZ govt did the Islamic prayer earlier this week. The prime minister has already had death threats likely from a white supremist. They want the name crusaders removed from the football team. If they start that then where will it end? Are they going to remove the word Islamic from being spoken given that Islamic state use the word Islamic. In Muslim countries the call to prayer starts out loud over loud speakers over the whole town at 5am and 5 times each day. Is there much difference between the sound of the Islamic prayer and the Catholic church mass? Just some thoughts. Others are welcome to agree or disagree or add their thoughts. About "Muslim countries the call to prayer starts out loud over loud speakers over the whole town." Many cities & towns do the same in the US.
In our small town of only 2,236 population, the Methodist church rings the bells at 6:00 A.M., noon, and 6:00 P.M. Their church is in a new building and the bells are more melodic than previous ones.
In fact when I am in the garden in the summer I know when the 6 pm bells ring that it is time for me to quit & get in the house to pray, (-ha, ha, gotcha) Actually I know that is time go into the house & watch the news!
The original purpose of ringing church bells meant the time to gather for a church service. Actually they also served the purpose of telling the time for many people at a time when people did not have clocks & watches we do today.
There is one downtown in Peoria IL where I jump every time it starts. It is an older Catholic church right in the middle of town and the bells are so loud they could raise the dead!
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Post by Grant on Mar 23, 2019 3:26:12 GMT -5
Madaba in Jordan is known as the only place in the Middle East where both the church bells ring and Muslim call of prayer goes out, that's if i remember correctly.
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Post by Lee on Mar 23, 2019 7:44:25 GMT -5
I would consider it an affront to my culture, my imploding christian-american culture, if Muslim songs were being aired in the wake of anything. I don't like the Muslim religion. The religion isn't based on a transcendent figure, Christ. This means the religion must realize all aspects of salvation politically to make good on it's claims. It complements the atheistic movement. I'm all for improving the human being. But I keep my eye on transcendence, a post death resurrection, or life, reality, and authority. I don't put all of my eggs in one basket. Lee, maybe putting all of your "eggs in one basket" is nit the best idea. It is like wearing a monocle and looking at everything with just one eye.
You say that you don't like the Muslim religion. But just because I do not like all of the tenets of Christian religion, doesn't mean that I don't like Christians. It doesn't even mean I can't understand why many people are Christians. I do understand because of my own personal past experience.
But we need to take a larger view of all of humankind. Now more than ever because there are too many of us on in small space.
Otherwise this infighting among races & religions could bring about the very "apocalypse" -the end of the world & collapse of civilization that so many fear!
The tragedy is that the cause won't be due to an imaginary "angry GOD" -but because of our BELIEF in such a GOD!Personally, I'm not surrendering what I believe to be the superior ideological construction of christianity, compared to alternative views of God and eschatology. There is misinformation in christianity, but there's gold also, if you're willing to dig. Our ideas determine our behavior, ultimately. Religions should be expressed more in terms of their ideas, so we can compare them better. Most people operate on an emotional, instinctive level, and relate to religion that way. It can't really be helped, thats what people do. But the ideas do manifest themselves. The principled and yet moderating effect of the savior-mediator-concept of christianity ushered our civilization forward beyond it's peers.
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Post by Lee on Mar 23, 2019 7:51:47 GMT -5
People should be more worried about a Christian Theocracy and White Identity groups and the knowledge that they are often in bed together.
Absolutely right. Lets get some terms straight. A christian theocracy, if it were actually christian, would be heaven, wouldn't it? I guessing groups like 'the family' are more about money control, big money, not christianity. ~~~ If gays can be likened to a canary of a mine, would they fare better in a muslim theocracy, than america at it's "whitest"? The whole idea america is natively racist is a canard of american haters. And I know there are, have been racists here. But it's never been unanimous. From what nation did the gettysburg address hail from?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 15:50:43 GMT -5
Little Alin has undergone 8 operations as she battles for her life in Starship hospital, New Zealand.
She was shot 3 times in the Christchurc terror attack by the gunman using a semi-automatic gun and has not woken 9 days later.
The gunman pointed the gun to little Atlins face at the doorway, the father reached to pull her away when she was shot in the back.
She is to undergo more surgery. Due to start school next month.
[ photo on front page of our paper)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 16:52:09 GMT -5
So sad Olea, it makes you feel sick. Why do people ever want to own guns. They are a curse, the sooner they get melted down the better.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 17:03:15 GMT -5
So sad Olea, it makes you feel sick. Why do people ever want to own guns. They are a curse, the sooner they get melted down the better. your getting irrational and hysterical, firearms in the hands of gov'ts have killed more people than civilians ever have and yet you trust the police and the military to have them. go fig'r
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Post by matisse on Mar 23, 2019 18:50:57 GMT -5
So sad Olea, it makes you feel sick. Why do people ever want to own guns. They are a curse, the sooner they get melted down the better. your getting irrational and hysterical, firearms in the hands of gov'ts have killed more people than civilians ever have and yet you trust the police and the military to have them. go fig'r NRA Apologetics.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Mar 23, 2019 18:51:34 GMT -5
So sad Olea, it makes you feel sick. Why do people ever want to own guns. They are a curse, the sooner they get melted down the better. I would have to hunt with a boomerang if that happened.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 23, 2019 19:09:35 GMT -5
So sad Olea, it makes you feel sick. Why do people ever want to own guns. They are a curse, the sooner they get melted down the better. your getting irrational and hysterical, firearms in the hands of gov'ts have killed more people than civilians ever have and yet you trust the police and the military to have them. go fig'r YEH! You two! Olea & Redback!
Why are you getting so "irrational and hysterical" over just one little girl who has undergone 8 operations because she was shot 3 times by a gunman using a semi-automatic gun who pointed the gun right in her face?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 19:44:09 GMT -5
Thanks Dmg, I just cannot understand the attitude of some people. 2x2's were never like that 50 years ago, if that has changed I'm glad I am no longer there. Mind you I think a few of the 2x2's we have on TMB are not the pick of the crop. All the good ones I used to know have taken off, which is a great pity. They are probably so embarrassed by what they read posted by their more radical members.
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