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Post by ForeverFree on Jul 30, 2020 3:59:15 GMT -5
Many of the old workers excel at spiritualization of ANYTHING. Reminds me of Gus Portokalos in My Big Fat Greek Wedding. "Give me a word, any word, and I show you that the root of that word is Greek". www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9whwwTK6I"There you go!"
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 4:34:12 GMT -5
Quoting scripture does not make you spiritual.
Being a spiritual person is synonymous with being a person whose highest priority is to be loving to yourself and others. A spiritual person cares about people, animals and the planet. A spiritual person knows that we are all One, and consciously attempts to honor this Oneness. A spiritual person is a kind person.
I find that Atheists tend to be more spiritual than a lot of so called religious people. Our Australian Aborigines are a very spiritual people, we destroyed that by trying to force them into religion. Attempts are being made so as we can learn more about their spiritualism, simple but beautiful.
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Post by chuck on Jul 30, 2020 4:41:56 GMT -5
I very much appreciated what our brother ipseedipstickn shared with us so helpfully , and want to be willing to be circumcised , like we heard this morning , in the coming days and do better , Sits down , Bahahahaha i was going alright until you said "sits down", I dont know why but I darn near laughed myself stupid with that remark!. Thanks!!! 😁
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Post by maryhig on Jul 30, 2020 9:15:55 GMT -5
The whole Bible has a deeper meaning, there is a natural and a spiritual meaning right through the old and new testaments.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 30, 2020 17:00:35 GMT -5
The whole Bible has a deeper meaning, there is a natural and a spiritual meaning right through the old and new testaments. You make it sound like the Bible was written by people all (1) of one mind and (2) all of the same religion.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 30, 2020 17:01:19 GMT -5
The whole Bible has a deeper meaning, there is a natural and a spiritual meaning right through the old and new testaments. No doubt it does.
So does the many other "sacred" books, -books that express awe and wonderment of the world and how one should act. I have a lovely little edition of Bhagavad~Gita which does the same.
I haven't investigated a lot of other sacred books but I would imagine they do much of the same since people themselves are much the same no matter what part of the world they first grew & developed a society.
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Post by chuck on Jul 30, 2020 23:12:17 GMT -5
The whole Bible has a deeper meaning, there is a natural and a spiritual meaning right through the old and new testaments. No doubt it does.
So does the many other "sacred" books, -books that express awe and wonderment of the world and how one should act. I have a lovely little edition of Bhagavad~Gita which does the same.
I haven't investigated a lot of other sacred books but I would imagine they do much of the same since people themselves are much the same no matter what part of the world they first grew & developed a society.
From the little I know of the Bhagavad-Gita, I don't see why God is any less present there than anywere else. It should come as no suprise that people could come to know God no matter the culture or time or text.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 31, 2020 4:41:57 GMT -5
The whole Bible has a deeper meaning, there is a natural and a spiritual meaning right through the old and new testaments. You make it sound like the Bible was written by people all (1) of one mind and (2) all of the same religion. There is no religion in God, this is true religion in God. James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 31, 2020 4:47:34 GMT -5
The whole Bible has a deeper meaning, there is a natural and a spiritual meaning right through the old and new testaments. No doubt it does.
So does the many other "sacred" books, -books that express awe and wonderment of the world and how one should act. I have a lovely little edition of Bhagavad~Gita which does the same.
I haven't investigated a lot of other sacred books but I would imagine they do much of the same since people themselves are much the same no matter what part of the world they first grew & developed a society.
I'm not talking about books, I'm talking about life. I have experienced God in my life and I know he's there. And with respect, you don't know what has happened in my life so you can't judge me regarding this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 14:06:58 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 31, 2020 16:53:19 GMT -5
You make it sound like the Bible was written by people all (1) of one mind and (2) all of the same religion. There is no religion in God, this is true religion in God. James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. So what you're saying, in fact, is that "pure religion" is not "religion". Do you realize what that reveals about a person? It means they can't speak dictionary English.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 31, 2020 16:58:11 GMT -5
Sam Harris, -One of my favorite people.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 19:45:33 GMT -5
Sam Harris, -One of my favorite people. I like him as well. I've got some subtle differences with him on a few issues, but have found him to be very logical and clear.
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Post by slowtosee on Jul 31, 2020 20:11:01 GMT -5
Interestingly ,Sam Harris , is quite “spiritual “, and has recently released a meditation app. “We need to live our lives with more than just understanding facts,” he says. “Not being wrong is not the ultimate state of being for people in this life.” Sam Harris “That we’re here and experiencing the world at each moment in the light of our consciousness is a deeply mysterious and profound fact, which, the more you pay attention to it, the more your experience begins to echo some of the claims of religious patriarchs a.......... One of his recent books on self-transcendence. “Waking Up: Searching for Spirituality Without Religion.” www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/16/sam-harris-interview-new-atheism-four-horsemen-faith-science-religion-rationalismAlvin
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 31, 2020 20:39:57 GMT -5
No doubt it does.
So does the many other "sacred" books, -books that express awe and wonderment of the world and how one should act. I have a lovely little edition of Bhagavad~Gita which does the same.
I haven't investigated a lot of other sacred books but I would imagine they do much of the same since people themselves are much the same no matter what part of the world they first grew & developed a society.
I'm not talking about books, I'm talking about life. I have experienced God in my life and I know he's there. And with respect, you don't know what has happened in my life so you can't judge me regarding this. Maryhig, -you say that are not "taking about books" -yet your just quoted from one. You talk of your life's "experiences," -but can't you acknowledge that I also have had life "experiences" as well?
Experiences that were based on the same book as the one you quoted? Do you believe own experience be more valid than mine or anyone else's for that matter?
And with all due respect, you don't know what has happened in my life either.
I can't and I don't "judge" you.
I am simply stating some of the explanations of how I surveyed MY own "life" experiences, -which were no doubt the same as many other people's and I began to understand why we think the way that we do.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 31, 2020 20:53:58 GMT -5
I was in awe of his book Letter to a Christian Nation.
I was visiting my daughter who had the book and I read it through in one night.
It is short book of course, but what a lot he was able to say in such a short book!
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 31, 2020 22:32:53 GMT -5
Interestingly ,Sam Harris , is quite “spiritual “, and has recently released a meditation app. “We need to live our lives with more than just understanding facts,” he says. “Not being wrong is not the ultimate state of being for people in this life.” Sam Harris “That we’re here and experiencing the world at each moment in the light of our consciousness is a deeply mysterious and profound fact, which, the more you pay attention to it, the more your experience begins to echo some of the claims of religious patriarchs a.......... One of his recent books on self-transcendence. “Waking Up: Searching for Spirituality Without Religion.” www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/16/sam-harris-interview-new-atheism-four-horsemen-faith-science-religion-rationalismAlvin For me, that's exactly what makes him an interesting writer for me. His "atheism" is explicitly not a rejection of what is moral and meaningful to one's life and values. Of course, that's the hardest thing for a lot of "people of faith" to appreciate.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jul 31, 2020 22:45:22 GMT -5
Believe me a higher power or God is watching over my beautiful daughter . We believe in the universe and we whisper in the wind 🌬 right now to save my child ! Spiritual health and healing is in all .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 23:41:29 GMT -5
I was in awe of his book Letter to a Christian Nation.
I was visiting my daughter who had the book and I read it through in one night.
It is short book of course, but what a lot he was able to say in such a short book! I've actually not read that one. His book Lying was for me one of the five most important books I've ever read. Completely changed how I dealt with reality and myself.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 23:44:37 GMT -5
Interestingly ,Sam Harris , is quite “spiritual “, and has recently released a meditation app. “We need to live our lives with more than just understanding facts,” he says. “Not being wrong is not the ultimate state of being for people in this life.” Sam Harris “That we’re here and experiencing the world at each moment in the light of our consciousness is a deeply mysterious and profound fact, which, the more you pay attention to it, the more your experience begins to echo some of the claims of religious patriarchs a.......... One of his recent books on self-transcendence. “Waking Up: Searching for Spirituality Without Religion.” www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/16/sam-harris-interview-new-atheism-four-horsemen-faith-science-religion-rationalismAlvin For me, that's exactly what makes him an interesting writer for me. His "atheism" is explicitly not a rejection of what is moral and meaningful to one's life and values. Of course, that's the hardest thing for a lot of "people of faith" to appreciate. People of faith prefer an obvious target. Richard Dawkins comes to mind. Sam is a challenge - nearly as gifted with words as Hitchens was, but with a scientific analytical delivery which still contains humor.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 1, 2020 1:16:34 GMT -5
I was in awe of his book Letter to a Christian Nation.
I was visiting my daughter who had the book and I read it through in one night.
It is short book of course, but what a lot he was able to say in such a short book! I've actually not read that one. His book Lying was for me one of the five most important books I've ever read. Completely changed how I dealt with reality and myself. You would certainly enjoy the Letter to a Christian Nation. It is superbly well organized and reasonable.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 2:06:56 GMT -5
No doubt it does.
So does the many other "sacred" books, -books that express awe and wonderment of the world and how one should act. I have a lovely little edition of Bhagavad~Gita which does the same.
I haven't investigated a lot of other sacred books but I would imagine they do much of the same since people themselves are much the same no matter what part of the world they first grew & developed a society.
[The whole Bible has a deeper meaning, there is a natural and a spiritual meaning right through the old and new testaments] I'm not talking about books, I'm talking about life. I have experienced God in my life and I know he's there. And with respect, you don't know what has happened in my life so you can't judge me regarding this. The bible has no intrinsic meaning. It only has whatever meaning you and others ascribe to it. In that respect it is no different to any other work of literature or work of art. Meaning is like value. It is subjective. An expensive piece of Italian furniture may be of great value to a collector of expensive Italian furniture but to a blind man, a Yanomami Indian or a dog it has no value whatsoever. To them an expensive Natuzzi sofa is just something to sit on. It has no value in itself. And so it is with the bible. For many people the bible is just a book and a book that is not worth reading. While for many others it has meaning. I do not know what deeper meaning, say, the book of Leviticus has for you but for me much of it is grossly offensive and has no meaning whatsoever. But that doesn’t mean it does not have some deeper ot spiritual meaning for you. And so it is with God. For one person God exists while for another he doesn’t. For one person God frowns upon women cutting their hair while for another he doesn’t. For one person God hates homosexuality while for another he supports same sex marriage. For one person Jesus is God while for another he is merely the son of God. God, like meaning and value, is subjective. While you may have experienced God in your life and believe that he is there, the God that you have experienced in your life and which you believe is there is a completely different God than, say, the God a Muslim or a Jew has experienced in their life and who they also believe is there. Which raises the question of whether all these different Gods are really there as their believers believe them to be ... or are they merely products of our own individual experience? When I was a 2x2 I too experienced God in my life and believed that this God was really there. And what a strange God he was too. He spent his entire time watching what people got up to in their bedrooms and frowning upon people having things in their home such as radios, televisions, video recorders, gramophone players, computers and CCTV. And He would only save your soul from an eternity in hell if you joined the 2x2s. While the existence of this God was very real to me it is perfectly obvious now that he did not exist in reality. Like DMG I don’t know anything about your life but what I do know is that there is no evidence to suggest that the God which you have experienced in your life and who you claim to know is there, is any more real than mine was. We all experience life internally and our experiences of life are all internal. And so it is with our experiences of God. When we hear God speaking it is never audibly just as when we see God it is never visually. Which is why we cannot capture God on camera. And it’s why when people converse with God through prayer you will only ever hear one of them talking. And why when people walk with God you will only ever see one person walking. God is experienced through our thoughts and feelings and through our personal interpretations of life’s events. Thoughts and feelings and personal interpretations that are always internal. Our entire engagement with God is internal because God himself is internal. Like the kingdom of heaven he is within you. He does not exist outside of you. He does not exist in reality. To experience God we must first believe in him. And when we quit believing he ceases to exist. Which is why the non believer cannot experience God nor see any evidence of him. Matt10
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 1, 2020 2:57:39 GMT -5
[The whole Bible has a deeper meaning, there is a natural and a spiritual meaning right through the old and new testaments] I'm not talking about books, I'm talking about life. I have experienced God in my life and I know he's there. And with respect, you don't know what has happened in my life so you can't judge me regarding this. The bible has no intrinsic meaning. It only has whatever meaning you and others ascribe to it. In that respect it is no different to any other work of literature or work of art. Meaning is like value. It is subjective. An expensive piece of Italian furniture may be of great value to a collector of expensive Italian furniture but to a blind man, a Yanomami Indian or a dog it has no value whatsoever. To them an expensive Natuzzi sofa is just something to sit on. It has no value in itself. And so it is with the bible. For many people the bible is just a book and a book that is not worth reading. While for many others it has meaning. I do not know what deeper meaning, say, the book of Leviticus has for you but for me much of it is grossly offensive and has no meaning whatsoever. But that doesn’t mean it does not have some deeper ot spiritual meaning for you. And so it is with God. For one person God exists while for another he doesn’t. For one person God frowns upon women cutting their hair while for another he doesn’t. For one person God hates homosexuality while for another he supports same sex marriage. For one person Jesus is God while for another he is merely the son of God. God, like meaning and value, is subjective. While you may have experienced God in your life and believe that he is there, the God that you have experienced in your life and which you believe is there is a completely different God than, say, the God a Muslim or a Jew has experienced in their life and who they also believe is there. Which raises the question of whether all these different Gods are really there as their believers believe them to be ... or are they merely products of our own individual experience? When I was a 2x2 I too experienced God in my life and believed that this God was really there. And what a strange God he was too. He spent his entire time watching what people got up to in their bedrooms and frowning upon people having things in their home such as radios, televisions, video recorders, gramophone players, computers and CCTV. And He would only save your soul from an eternity in hell if you joined the 2x2s. While the existence of this God was very real to me it is perfectly obvious now that he did not exist in reality. Like DMG I don’t know anything about your life but what I do know is that there is no evidence to suggest that the God which you have experienced in your life and who you claim to know is there, is any more real than mine was. We all experience life internally and our experiences of life are all internal. And so it is with our experiences of God. When we hear God speaking it is never audibly just as when we see God it is never visually. Which is why we cannot capture God on camera. And it’s why when people converse with God through prayer you will only ever hear one of them talking. And why when people walk with God you will only ever see one person walking. God is experienced through our thoughts and feelings and through our personal interpretations of life’s events. Thoughts and feelings and personal interpretations that are always internal. Our entire engagement with God is internal because God himself is internal. Like the kingdom of heaven he is within you. He does not exist outside of you. He does not exist in reality. To experience God we must first believe in him. And when we quit believing he ceases to exist. Which is why the non believer cannot experience God nor see any evidence of him. Matt10 Very insightfully explained -- something a "person of faith" cannot dispute, and not offensive to the honest person of faith. For those who want to dispute this, they will not accept it --- without turning on another light, and that takes a courage many don't have.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 3:03:39 GMT -5
I've actually not read that one. His book Lying was for me one of the five most important books I've ever read. Completely changed how I dealt with reality and myself. You would certainly enjoy the Letter to a Christian Nation. It is superbly well organized and reasonable. will order
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 8:05:30 GMT -5
The bible has no intrinsic meaning. It only has whatever meaning you and others ascribe to it. In that respect it is no different to any other work of literature or work of art. Meaning is like value. It is subjective. An expensive piece of Italian furniture may be of great value to a collector of expensive Italian furniture but to a blind man, a Yanomami Indian or a dog it has no value whatsoever. To them an expensive Natuzzi sofa is just something to sit on. It has no value in itself. And so it is with the bible. For many people the bible is just a book and a book that is not worth reading. While for many others it has meaning. I do not know what deeper meaning, say, the book of Leviticus has for you but for me much of it is grossly offensive and has no meaning whatsoever. But that doesn’t mean it does not have some deeper ot spiritual meaning for you. And so it is with God. For one person God exists while for another he doesn’t. For one person God frowns upon women cutting their hair while for another he doesn’t. For one person God hates homosexuality while for another he supports same sex marriage. For one person Jesus is God while for another he is merely the son of God. God, like meaning and value, is subjective. While you may have experienced God in your life and believe that he is there, the God that you have experienced in your life and which you believe is there is a completely different God than, say, the God a Muslim or a Jew has experienced in their life and who they also believe is there. Which raises the question of whether all these different Gods are really there as their believers believe them to be ... or are they merely products of our own individual experience? When I was a 2x2 I too experienced God in my life and believed that this God was really there. And what a strange God he was too. He spent his entire time watching what people got up to in their bedrooms and frowning upon people having things in their home such as radios, televisions, video recorders, gramophone players, computers and CCTV. And He would only save your soul from an eternity in hell if you joined the 2x2s. While the existence of this God was very real to me it is perfectly obvious now that he did not exist in reality. Like DMG I don’t know anything about your life but what I do know is that there is no evidence to suggest that the God which you have experienced in your life and who you claim to know is there, is any more real than mine was. We all experience life internally and our experiences of life are all internal. And so it is with our experiences of God. When we hear God speaking it is never audibly just as when we see God it is never visually. Which is why we cannot capture God on camera. And it’s why when people converse with God through prayer you will only ever hear one of them talking. And why when people walk with God you will only ever see one person walking. God is experienced through our thoughts and feelings and through our personal interpretations of life’s events. Thoughts and feelings and personal interpretations that are always internal. Our entire engagement with God is internal because God himself is internal. Like the kingdom of heaven he is within you. He does not exist outside of you. He does not exist in reality. To experience God we must first believe in him. And when we quit believing he ceases to exist. Which is why the non believer cannot experience God nor see any evidence of him. Matt10 Very insightfully explained -- something a "person of faith" cannot dispute, and not offensive to the honest person of faith. For those who want to dispute this, they will not accept it --- without turning on another light, and that takes a courage many don't have. why bother matt10 is determined to shake his fist at a God he doesn't even believe in...
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Post by maryhig on Aug 1, 2020 10:23:10 GMT -5
There is no religion in God, this is true religion in God. James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. So what you're saying, in fact, is that "pure religion" is not "religion". Do you realize what that reveals about a person? It means they can't speak dictionary English. No what I mean is, religion to God isn't what religion is to man. Religion to man is pomp and ceremony and building up their churches in many cases. God is not a religion in that regard, to draw close to God is a way, and the the way was lived out perfectly by Jesus, he is the way, he bore witness to the truth and his life of the life to follow, and those who truly follow him obey the word of God and live it out. The true church of God isn't the building or the churchy religious ways and ceremonies, it's the people and it's a way of life and those who walk in the spirit live it out and follow Jesus in word and deed.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 1, 2020 10:25:44 GMT -5
I'm not talking about books, I'm talking about life. I have experienced God in my life and I know he's there. And with respect, you don't know what has happened in my life so you can't judge me regarding this. Maryhig, -you say that are not "taking about books" -yet your just quoted from one. You talk of your life's "experiences," -but can't you acknowledge that I also have had life "experiences" as well?
Experiences that were based on the same book as the one you quoted? Do you believe own experience be more valid than mine or anyone else's for that matter?
And with all due respect, you don't know what has happened in my life either.
I can't and I don't "judge" you.
I am simply stating some of the explanations of how I surveyed MY own "life" experiences, -which were no doubt the same as many other people's and I began to understand why we think the way that we do.No I mean I didn't get to truly know God by just reading the Bible, I got to know God by experiencing him in my life. And the things that have happened to me have proved to me that God is there. I have no doubt whatsoever.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 1, 2020 10:30:18 GMT -5
[The whole Bible has a deeper meaning, there is a natural and a spiritual meaning right through the old and new testaments] I'm not talking about books, I'm talking about life. I have experienced God in my life and I know he's there. And with respect, you don't know what has happened in my life so you can't judge me regarding this. The bible has no intrinsic meaning. It only has whatever meaning you and others ascribe to it. In that respect it is no different to any other work of literature or work of art. Meaning is like value. It is subjective. An expensive piece of Italian furniture may be of great value to a collector of expensive Italian furniture but to a blind man, a Yanomami Indian or a dog it has no value whatsoever. To them an expensive Natuzzi sofa is just something to sit on. It has no value in itself. And so it is with the bible. For many people the bible is just a book and a book that is not worth reading. While for many others it has meaning. I do not know what deeper meaning, say, the book of Leviticus has for you but for me much of it is grossly offensive and has no meaning whatsoever. But that doesn’t mean it does not have some deeper ot spiritual meaning for you. And so it is with God. For one person God exists while for another he doesn’t. For one person God frowns upon women cutting their hair while for another he doesn’t. For one person God hates homosexuality while for another he supports same sex marriage. For one person Jesus is God while for another he is merely the son of God. God, like meaning and value, is subjective. While you may have experienced God in your life and believe that he is there, the God that you have experienced in your life and which you believe is there is a completely different God than, say, the God a Muslim or a Jew has experienced in their life and who they also believe is there. Which raises the question of whether all these different Gods are really there as their believers believe them to be ... or are they merely products of our own individual experience? When I was a 2x2 I too experienced God in my life and believed that this God was really there. And what a strange God he was too. He spent his entire time watching what people got up to in their bedrooms and frowning upon people having things in their home such as radios, televisions, video recorders, gramophone players, computers and CCTV. And He would only save your soul from an eternity in hell if you joined the 2x2s. While the existence of this God was very real to me it is perfectly obvious now that he did not exist in reality. Like DMG I don’t know anything about your life but what I do know is that there is no evidence to suggest that the God which you have experienced in your life and who you claim to know is there, is any more real than mine was. We all experience life internally and our experiences of life are all internal. And so it is with our experiences of God. When we hear God speaking it is never audibly just as when we see God it is never visually. Which is why we cannot capture God on camera. And it’s why when people converse with God through prayer you will only ever hear one of them talking. And why when people walk with God you will only ever see one person walking. God is experienced through our thoughts and feelings and through our personal interpretations of life’s events. Thoughts and feelings and personal interpretations that are always internal. Our entire engagement with God is internal because God himself is internal. Like the kingdom of heaven he is within you. He does not exist outside of you. He does not exist in reality. To experience God we must first believe in him. And when we quit believing he ceases to exist. Which is why the non believer cannot experience God nor see any evidence of him. Matt10 The evidence of God is all around us, creation and life itself shows us there has to be a greater mind behind it all. And God looks at the heart, only he knows the depths of a person's heart and only he can judge us.
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