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Post by Dennis J on Nov 26, 2018 16:16:32 GMT -5
Have just completed reading Steve’s account. He is from the East and traveled west, I am from the west and traveled east.
Different names and places, same experiences.
Like Steve, the vision of grace was given to me. “Freely you have received, freely give.” What was it they received so freely if not “Grace?” Personally, the thought that He gave it freely is not in reference to money, but in the giving of grace without restraint, rather “freely.”
Mercy is easy to understand, “not getting what one deserves.”
Grace is a bit different, “getting what is not deserved.”
The reason it is not given by workers and those with eyes only for workers, to others freely by the cult of workers is quite simple: they have not received it though Yahu’shuah has and does give it so freely to everyone accepting it. Each person needs to accept that wonderful gift freely, in order to follow His command to extend it to others just as unreservedly.
Steve, if you should ever read here, I would love to have a brother like you “out there.”
Dennis Jacobsen (gamalgubbe@gmail.com)
BTW, for any wondering “gamalgubbe ” is a deliberate mis-spelling of Swedish “gammalgubbe” meaning “old duffer/guy.”
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Post by speak on Nov 26, 2018 22:24:13 GMT -5
Yes, I imagine that if speak runs a business he might look at what the "competitors" are doing....or maybe he doesn't because it would be "twaddle" to do so Did Jesus look at the competitors? Or maybe did He go to God? You're a strange one being a christian you advocate going to man but don't advocate going to God, funny way of following Christ.
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Post by speak on Nov 26, 2018 22:28:40 GMT -5
Just a further comment on changes occurring in Australia. I heard today that David Leitch (DL) is no longer the Head Worker in Victoria. The person who mentioned it to me didn't know whether he had "stood down" of his own volition or been "stood down" by someone else - possibly pressure from Graham Snow? ("Stood down" is an interesting 2x2 term in Australia - many professing folk over the years have been "stood down" by workers for various things - workers even though they might do significantly more serious things are rarely "stood down" by anyone). Anyway, for those who know him (I don't) Jim McLean has been appointed (not sure by whom) as DL's successor in Victoria. DL has been heavily criticised for a number of years based on his very poor handling of Child Sexual Abuse matters within the 2x2 fellowship in that state. Some will recall that Graham Thompson in his well known Auckland Special Meetings sermon a few years ago on Child Sexual Abuse referred to the poor handling of matters in Victoria. At the time, it resulted in Graham T being severely caned for commenting on another jurisdiction, but DL survived. When we go to special meetings or convention or even Gospel meetings we want to hear about Jesus, not about the sorry state some people get themselves in.
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Post by alistairhenderson on Nov 27, 2018 0:09:54 GMT -5
Intel just in on DL. It seems (have only heard this) that DL at the Australian April 2018 Overseers meeting may have put forward as a pastoral priority 'going a bit easier on divorced people'.
Caused a major explosion of purple faces and faeces apparently. :-)
Result - 'flickocracy' rule came into play.
Also, apparently when looking for a willing successor to DL they had to go 'all the way down the line' (from my old mate Steven Thorpe on down) until they reached Jim Mclean (last man standing).
Point being no one wanted the poisoned chalice - obviously there are big problems there.
Heard this from a currently professing relative in Victoria.
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 27, 2018 0:24:27 GMT -5
Stuff that movies are made out of . Facts often stranger than fiction . Sadly, crazy as it all is , including steve’s Accounts , bob willistons experience , Dennis , Alan etc etc etc Unless it has happened to you or you have witnessed it yourself , it is easy to Not believe it to be true , but , I believe it . Alvin
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2018 0:58:37 GMT -5
Poor old Victoria Alistair, it has gone to the dogs since you and I were there. You are fortunate that you get information from your relies, ours have all clammed up, never say anything. Never knew your mate Stephen, but had a lot to do with his Mother's family. They of course were very sincere people.
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Post by Pragmatic on Nov 27, 2018 3:03:10 GMT -5
Yes, I imagine that if speak runs a business he might look at what the "competitors" are doing....or maybe he doesn't because it would be "twaddle" to do so Did Jesus look at the competitors? Or maybe did He go to God? You're a strange one being a christian you advocate going to man but don't advocate going to God, funny way of following Christ. Probably wouldn’t call them competitors, but he learned from them, beginning from when he was in the 12th year. He wouldn’t have been able to know all about them by putting his head in the sand.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2018 4:14:22 GMT -5
Just a further comment on changes occurring in Australia. I heard today that David Leitch (DL) is no longer the Head Worker in Victoria. The person who mentioned it to me didn't know whether he had "stood down" of his own volition or been "stood down" by someone else - possibly pressure from Graham Snow? ("Stood down" is an interesting 2x2 term in Australia - many professing folk over the years have been "stood down" by workers for various things - workers even though they might do significantly more serious things are rarely "stood down" by anyone). Anyway, for those who know him (I don't) Jim McLean has been appointed (not sure by whom) as DL's successor in Victoria. DL has been heavily criticised for a number of years based on his very poor handling of Child Sexual Abuse matters within the 2x2 fellowship in that state. Some will recall that Graham Thompson in his well known Auckland Special Meetings sermon a few years ago on Child Sexual Abuse referred to the poor handling of matters in Victoria. At the time, it resulted in Graham T being severely caned for commenting on another jurisdiction, but DL survived. When we go to special meetings or convention or even Gospel meetings we want to hear about Jesus, not about the sorry state some people get themselves in. Can you explain what you mean by this comment speak ? Strange comment to make about something so serious as CSA I would think !
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2018 4:17:18 GMT -5
Yes, I imagine that if speak runs a business he might look at what the "competitors" are doing....or maybe he doesn't because it would be "twaddle" to do so Did Jesus look at the competitors? Or maybe did He go to God? You're a strange one being a christian you advocate going to man but don't advocate going to God, funny way of following Christ. mmmm well I suppose it could be said that if the workers were going to God there shouldn't be any CSA speak ! The 2x2 church is NOT above the law and could certainly learn from other churches in regard to how CSA is handled !
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Post by snow on Nov 27, 2018 15:01:01 GMT -5
Did Jesus look at the competitors? Or maybe did He go to God? You're a strange one being a christian you advocate going to man but don't advocate going to God, funny way of following Christ. Probably wouldn’t call them competitors, but he learned from them, beginning from when he was in the 12th year. He wouldn’t have been able to know all about them by putting his head in the sand. Exactly. You need to be informed even if you don't agree. Otherwise you have no idea what you're dealing with. Why do you think the one characteristic all theists value most in their God is the 'all knowing' characteristic. Knowledge about the other guy is smart and who knows you might even learn something beneficial for your own group. But you never do that by not paying attention to the 'other guys'.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2018 16:03:06 GMT -5
Agree with you there Snow, knowledge about others, stops discrimination. And discrimination is evil and should never be part of people's actions.
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Post by speak on Nov 27, 2018 23:20:16 GMT -5
When we go to special meetings or convention or even Gospel meetings we want to hear about Jesus, not about the sorry state some people get themselves in. Can you explain what you mean by this comment speak ? Strange comment to make about something so serious as CSA I would think ! You can't understand that?
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Post by speak on Nov 27, 2018 23:23:37 GMT -5
When we go to special meetings or convention or even Gospel meetings we want to hear about Jesus, not about the sorry state some people get themselves in. If you go to hear about Jesus and why He came to earth, then by necessity you must hear about sin and the sorry state some people get themselves into. The two are inextricably linked. I know you are not a fan of Graham T but at least he was honest enough to address complete dishonesty and criminal behaviour even if it meant he upset the hierarchy. Some people have guts to stand up for the oppressed and vulnerable.....just like Jesus did. Others are happy to sweep it all under the carpet. Actually you haven't a clue how I feel about Graham Man you love the dramatic.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 28, 2018 1:46:54 GMT -5
Can you explain what you mean by this comment speak ? Strange comment to make about something so serious as CSA I would think ! You can't understand that? I asked for clarification speak..... or do you want me to take it that you really don't care about CSA ?
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Post by speak on Nov 28, 2018 3:00:33 GMT -5
You can't understand that? I asked for clarification speak ..... or do you want me to take it that you really don't care about CSA ? I being a victim of such how could I not, but you don't have to be a dipstick about it.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 28, 2018 3:26:10 GMT -5
I asked for clarification speak ..... or do you want me to take it that you really don't care about CSA ? I being a victim of such how could I not, but you don't have to be a dipstick about it. Well I did ask you what you meant speak and you could have answered without being a "dipstick" !
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 29, 2018 12:42:44 GMT -5
I asked for clarification speak ..... or do you want me to take it that you really don't care about CSA ? I being a victim of such how could I not, but you don't have to be a dipstick about it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q5FdzHaOuE
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Post by speak on Nov 29, 2018 18:17:36 GMT -5
I thought you were older than that?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 19:50:57 GMT -5
I thought you were older than that? well we are talking about curly here...he age is his shoe size....
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 29, 2018 19:58:59 GMT -5
I thought you were older than that? well we are talking about curly here...he age is his shoe size.... Says Wally who believes in myths and legends and has conversations with imaginary things.
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Post by speak on Nov 30, 2018 0:01:00 GMT -5
well we are talking about curly here...he age is his shoe size.... Says Wally who believes in myths and legends and has conversations with imaginary things. Like the many millions of others. And you might be a legend in your own eyes.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 30, 2018 2:21:08 GMT -5
Says Wally who believes in myths and legends and has conversations with imaginary things. Like the many millions of others. And you might be a legend in your own eyes. religion, including christianity is a major cause of mental illness. Hearing voices!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2018 2:37:20 GMT -5
With you on that one Curly. My Daughter and Granddaughter are both into Health care, and that is what they have found.
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Post by Grant on Nov 30, 2018 3:30:10 GMT -5
With you on that one Curly. My Daughter and Granddaughter are both into Health care, and that is what they have found. With over 20 years in health care I have never heard this. I have met some who have schizophrenia think they are Jesus or Peter but then they use any famous person in their delusion. Your statement is not correct. People who hear voices do so whether they are religious or not. Religion is seen as a healing tool, a source of comfort for many. Encouraging people to connect with their spirituality is seen as a positive tool in reducing crime, abuse and so on. You must know that is encouraged in your Maori people Curly. I thought you attended a church sometimes Redback. Do you or your wife identify as Christian?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2018 3:51:24 GMT -5
Yes Enuf, we call ourselves Independent Christian. We don't support any one brand, they all believe in the same thing Christ. There is no need for different brands, all good if you like that sort of thing. It would be great if more people became independents, there is no need for divisions. After all they are all breakaways from the original Christian Church the Roman Catholics. All Christian Churches have their beginning at the same point in time. It was only because of competition for a congregation that they went in different directions, intervention by confused human minds. Differences were minor, the overall purpose was the same. For survival they will all come back together again. It is happening and that is encouraging.
My Daughter and Granddaughters findings are subjective, gained from dealing with patients.
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 30, 2018 9:30:24 GMT -5
Like the many millions of others. And you might be a legend in your own eyes. religion, including christianity is a major cause of mental illness. Hearing voices!!!!!!! Interedtingly , Science, believe it or not , doesn’t really support that statement ? Alvin The amassed research indicates that higher levels of religious belief and practice (known in social science as "religiosity") is associated with better mental health. In particular, the research suggests that higher levels of religiosity are associated with lower rates of depression, anxiety, substance use disorder, and suicidal behavior. Religiosity is also associated with better physical health and subjective well-being. www.google.ca/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/talking-about-men/201712/religion-and-mental-health-what-is-the-link%3famp
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 30, 2018 12:05:04 GMT -5
religion, including christianity is a major cause of mental illness. Hearing voices!!!!!!! Interedtingly , Science, believe it or not , doesn’t really support that statement ? Alvin The amassed research indicates that higher levels of religious belief and practice (known in social science as "religiosity") is associated with better mental health. In particular, the research suggests that higher levels of religiosity are associated with lower rates of depression, anxiety, substance use disorder, and suicidal behavior. Religiosity is also associated with better physical health and subjective well-being. www.google.ca/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/talking-about-men/201712/religion-and-mental-health-what-is-the-link%3fampAny adult believing in a mythical being and having conversations with it (prayer) is suffering from illusions which is a psychosis.
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Post by Grant on Nov 30, 2018 14:08:43 GMT -5
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