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Post by Dennis J on Nov 10, 2018 16:17:17 GMT -5
If if you haven’t yet to begin seeing through windows darkly, you would not understand. One’s vision can become clouded and grey. Ugh!
Perhaps like myself, being up in years she finds it easier to use large and emboldened typeface.
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Post by speak on Nov 10, 2018 16:44:34 GMT -5
If if you haven’t yet to begin seeing through windows darkly, you would not understand. One’s vision can become clouded and grey. Ugh!
Perhaps like myself, being up in years she finds it easier to use large and emboldened typeface. Oh I see all right and understand alright the anger shows all.
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Post by speak on Nov 10, 2018 16:51:06 GMT -5
well we did have one instance of a fire that devastated one of the friends and it was recommended to donate to a charitable fund setup by a local bank to help them rebuild... But that wasn't a public charity -- it was only intended for the benefit of professing people. So you would say then that we don't have needy in the fellowship? Charity the voluntary giving of help, typically in the form of money, to those in need. "the care of the poor must not be left to private charity" synonyms: financial assistance, aid, welfare, relief, financial relief. I do not see charity as being exclusive of who receives it but inclusive to all who need regardless of race or creed. Would you look to your own first ie: family?
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Post by Dennis J on Nov 10, 2018 16:55:58 GMT -5
Due to MY advancing age, when composing the above I simply forgot the term used to describe the condition. “Eye Floaters.”
For some of us, they severely worsen as we approach our eighties. Little to nothing can be done at the present for them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 17:19:26 GMT -5
well we did have one instance of a fire that devastated one of the friends and it was recommended to donate to a charitable fund setup by a local bank to help them rebuild... But that wasn't a public charity -- it was only intended for the benefit of professing people. ummm more than professing people donated to it to my understanding...
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 10, 2018 18:43:47 GMT -5
As the two by twos are pretty close in it, they are able to do things together without much Todo that would alert those whom likely shouldn't it couldn't be involved. An example, when I lived in Kansas, seems we had funeral after funeral. There would be workers and friends who came long miles for the funeral. In order to get these distance folks back on the road toward home it was always an effort brought about that would feed them while allowing some quick visiting for the bereaved and those visitors esp the workers. Often I was organist, but still we had a small group who had gotten a meal planned and set to start eating even before they got back from cenetery. Usually it was my sis, Frances Allen and myself. Sometimes friends from Topeka helped. But anytime anyone needed a quick dinner fixed, the call came and it was a joint effort and done. There was no need calling everyone in the roster, just those who were known could get it done quickly. Other deeds of need were handled quit the same. No big deal to call a large batch of people, but one here and there and anyone able to be in the mix, got notified in all good time. Yes, STR, but I don't think that is what we are talking about.
That seems to be a part of a 2x2 kind of funeral "ritual?" and no doubt other churches as well.Some of these funerals were nit for professing folks. True, might have some connection to the professing. However, I'm talking about this being statewide, sometimes edging into Nev. And Missouri, and Colorado. Why we were involved was due to our accessibility of major highway running N-S and just hop and skip from major highways east to west.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 10, 2018 18:56:45 GMT -5
But that wasn't a public charity -- it was only intended for the benefit of professing people. So you would say then that we don't have needy in the fellowship? Charity the voluntary giving of help, typically in the form of money, to those in need. The matter wasn't about needy in the fellowship. It was about giving to charities that distribute as the charity decides. So, NO. I would NEVER say help was not given to the needy in the fellowship. I have personally contributed to needy friends through unsigned sealed envelopes through meeting elders to the needy friends -- an approach the workers approved of where I was living.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 10, 2018 19:01:36 GMT -5
But that wasn't a public charity -- it was only intended for the benefit of professing people. ummm more than professing people donated to it to my understanding... True. But it was an account established by the friends exclusively for the benefit of the friends. That's not really the same as donating to a public charity.
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Post by rational on Nov 10, 2018 19:48:52 GMT -5
Wally,you seem a bit Trumpy heartless??? HOW did Joseph and Mary get into Egypt to save their child??? Entitlement or rejection on the border??From Israel to Egypt would be days and days in horrific weather heat and chilled nights???What would God have you do even in your own limited way,if you are old,it is real Charity when it hurts a bit??? Magpie. back then there wasn't the border control that most nations have today, thats how they got in. Or perhaps they never went and someone made it up to fulfill a "prophecy".
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Post by rational on Nov 10, 2018 20:20:51 GMT -5
Who walks 2000 km just to rape someone or rob someone? ask those german women who have been raped by muslim men since they have arrived...get real.... Did the men you mention walk 2200km? Again, I would question your source. From Germany: Is there truth to refugee sex offense reports?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 10, 2018 20:26:46 GMT -5
back then there wasn't the border control that most nations have today, thats how they got in. Or perhaps they never went and someone made it up to fulfill a "prophecy". In fact, one of the gospels declares that they went instead to Galilee.
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Post by Lee on Nov 10, 2018 20:57:07 GMT -5
well we did have one instance of a fire that devastated one of the friends and it was recommended to donate to a charitable fund setup by a local bank to help them rebuild... But that wasn't a public charity -- it was only intended for the benefit of professing people. My parents call the friends their spiritual family and the rest of the world their natural family. They're convinced there are natural good works that are of separate and lesser value than spiritual good works, works that are exclusively thought to be realized in the 2x2, pursuant to the workers approbation. I understand that many people had superficial concepts of goodness, and good works. But I think the distinction they impose is conventional to a point of being artificial. I understand how we might want to be saved, the world be damned. Does it accord with the long suffering Christ assigned us to?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 11, 2018 0:32:09 GMT -5
But that wasn't a public charity -- it was only intended for the benefit of professing people. My parents call the friends their spiritual family and the rest of the world their natural family. They're convinced there are natural good works that are of separate and lesser value than spiritual good works, works that are exclusively thought to be realized in the 2x2, pursuant to the workers approbation. I understand that many people had superficial concepts of goodness, and good works. But I think the distinction they impose is conventional to a point of being artificial. I understand how we might want to be saved, the world be damned. Does it accord with the long suffering Christ assigned us to? Christ assigned long suffering to us? Or do you mean longsuffering?
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Post by Lee on Nov 11, 2018 1:03:32 GMT -5
What does it mean to be long suffering? A doormat? Unassertive? Dumb?
Or does it mean to act contrary to the general direction and design or perhaps your own druthers respecting the world we live in, upon a hope for a better reality, which reality may transcend all knowable means by which a definite migration to said better reality might be attained?
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 11, 2018 4:36:27 GMT -5
But that wasn't a public charity -- it was only intended for the benefit of professing people. My parents call the friends their spiritual family and the rest of the world their natural family. They're convinced there are natural good works that are of separate and lesser value than spiritual good works, works that are exclusively thought to be realized in the 2x2, pursuant to the workers approbation. I understand that many people had superficial concepts of goodness, and good works. But I think the distinction they impose is conventional to a point of being artificial. I understand how we might want to be saved, the world be damned. Does it accord with the long suffering Christ assigned us to? NO, it does not. At least not according to the Jesus in the bible in which you believe.
What about the "good Samaritan?"
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 11, 2018 4:59:27 GMT -5
Lee, I think that you seem to forget that as atheist it isn't just the bible and it's gods that I find unbelievable and it's ideas abhorrent at times, but any of the numerous religious books and their gods/godesses are not believable either. Mythical literature can be interesting reading but not so for believing.
No, -the bible is NOT "better than no witness at all to the truth!" Why does the fact that the Jews exist to this day have anything to do with TRUTH?
Certainly just because Jesus & Christians "arrived" is no indication of any TRUTH! There are three fundamental unctions that determine a nation's or people's prosperity which the Judeo-Christian heritage roughly supplies. A respect for law, and a presumption or a mechanism (democracy) to ensure that laws are habilitative. A proportionate response to violations of the law, for no law perfectly addresses the material-spiritual needs of the complex entity of the human being. While present in the Judeo tradition, Grace is more popularly associated with Christianity. A national, ethnic, or cultural sense of identity, to hang or to flesh out a people upon its foundational ideas. Indeed, the world today is seeing a crisis between national and global identity. If Globalism will be honest and not elitist it will reckon with all of the challenges of redeeming primitivism. I don't how to make sense of it all, in the context of the filthy rich bastards as related on this thread. (are they running us to profit off us, including our pathetic attempts at sound religion)? Lee, -not even ONE of your three claims are the reason for modern day prosperity . They certainly not due to Judeo-Christian heritage as you claim. . Our modern day prosperity is far more due to the Age of Enlightenment instead of any Judeo-Christian heritage. The Age of Enlightenment or the Age of Reason was an intellectual and philosophical movement that dominated the world of ideas in Europe during the 18th century, the "Century of Philosophy".
The Enlightenment included a range of ideas centered on reason as the primary source of authority and legitimacy and came to advance ideals like liberty, progress, tolerance, fraternity, constitutional government and separation of church and state.
In France, the central doctrines of the Enlightenment philosophers were individual liberty and religious tolerance, in opposition to an absolute monarchy and the fixed dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. from wiki
The Enlightenment was marked by an emphasis on the scientific method and reductionism, along with increased questioning of religious orthodoxy—an attitude captured by the phrase Sapere aude, "Dare to know".
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 11, 2018 5:17:53 GMT -5
BULL sh-,
WALLY, -HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU KNOW OF A COLLECTIVE EFFORT BY PEOPLE PROFESSING TO GET FUNDS TOGETHER FOR A CHARITY ? tut tut angry much. Why is it that you think you are so correct every time? Why is it that you feel that you have to shout so much about what others believe/know? is it because you consider your knowledge the only true knowledge? After trying to tell someone the same thing multiple times and they keep repeating their same old post, -it does tend to ruffle one's feathers.
I am 86 with long years of knowledge of what we in my day called *THE TRUTH.* The same that today you call something different after finally finding out that it did not go all the way back to the first disciples. (which BTW, I knew even as a child)
So go ahead and "tut tut" all you like if it helps make you feel superior.
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Post by snow on Nov 11, 2018 13:26:20 GMT -5
The bible is dialectic fiction. You atheists can find fault with it because that's what you do. It was better than no witness at all to the truth. Snap...that's right, the Jews exist to this day. Snap... Christians arrived on the scene right about the time what was his name... Jesus? Jesus appeared? Creation story..fiction Flood story fiction Jonah and the whale story fiction Resurrection story fiction. Revelation story... fiction on steroids Revelation story... fiction on Hallucinogenic drugs. Try reading the Book of Enoch. It's not even understandable but it is quite the story of someone's 'trip'
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Post by nathan on Nov 11, 2018 15:53:31 GMT -5
Creation story..fiction Flood story fiction Jonah and the whale story fiction Resurrection story fiction. Revelation story... fiction on steroids Revelation story... fiction on Hallucinogenic drugs. Try reading the Book of Enoch. It's not even understandable but it is quite the story of someone's 'trip' Well, when Jesus returns as KING of kings and LORD of lords then ALL humans that ever LIVED, will KNOW Creation story, the World Wide Noah flood, Jonah and the whale, the Resurrection and Revelation stories are NOT fiction! LORD God Jesus Comes! John saw the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ and wrote in Revelation Rev. 1:7-8 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen. “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Paul wrote in Philip 2:5-11 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Rev. 20:4-6 4 Then I/John saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
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Post by speak on Nov 11, 2018 20:50:01 GMT -5
tut tut angry much. Why is it that you think you are so correct every time? Why is it that you feel that you have to shout so much about what others believe/know? is it because you consider your knowledge the only true knowledge? After trying to tell someone the same thing multiple times and they keep repeating their same old post, -it does tend to ruffle one's feathers.
I am 86 with long years of knowledge of what we in my day called *THE TRUTH.* The same that today you call something different after finally finding out that it did not go all the way back to the first disciples. (which BTW, I knew even as a child)
So go ahead and "tut tut" all you like if it helps make you feel superior. I see wisdom hasn't smiled on you yet.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 11, 2018 21:17:06 GMT -5
After trying to tell someone the same thing multiple times and they keep repeating their same old post, -it does tend to ruffle one's feathers.
I am 86 with long years of knowledge of what we in my day called *THE TRUTH.* The same that today you call something different after finally finding out that it did not go all the way back to the first disciples. (which BTW, I knew even as a child)
So go ahead and "tut tut" all you like if it helps make you feel superior. I see wisdom hasn't smiled on you yet. I see it's already laughing on you.
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Post by Lee on Nov 11, 2018 22:16:23 GMT -5
Creation story..fiction Flood story fiction Jonah and the whale story fiction Resurrection story fiction. Revelation story... fiction on steroids Revelation story... fiction on Hallucinogenic drugs. Try reading the Book of Enoch. It's not even understandable but it is quite the story of someone's 'trip' Author Lee Harmon, ex truther, tmb member, jewist enthusiast, agnostic ... Made sense of it. He's published in book form.
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Post by Lee on Nov 11, 2018 22:31:47 GMT -5
My parents call the friends their spiritual family and the rest of the world their natural family. They're convinced there are natural good works that are of separate and lesser value than spiritual good works, works that are exclusively thought to be realized in the 2x2, pursuant to the workers approbation. I understand that many people had superficial concepts of goodness, and good works. But I think the distinction they impose is conventional to a point of being artificial. I understand how we might want to be saved, the world be damned. Does it accord with the long suffering Christ assigned us to? NO, it does not. At least not according to the Jesus in the bible in which you believe.
What about the "good Samaritan?"
So Jesus was addressing the self righteous. "For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers." The self righteous come in two models. One, those who dont give a damn about others and are profanely vane in their self centric ideas about their goodness or their salvation. Type two, they don't give a damn about others but they have enough of a conscience that they don't want to be identified as those who don't give a damn about others. So they assign other people to do tasks they're unwilling to do and rather apart from a comprehensive inquiry and study of whether said tasks will eradicate evil. The important thing to the type two self righteous perosn is to vicariously live by an image of a works-perfect individual while demonizing anyone who falls short or dares to challenge their imagined perfect behavior model.
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Post by Lee on Nov 11, 2018 22:46:11 GMT -5
There are three fundamental unctions that determine a nation's or people's prosperity which the Judeo-Christian heritage roughly supplies. A respect for law, and a presumption or a mechanism (democracy) to ensure that laws are habilitative. A proportionate response to violations of the law, for no law perfectly addresses the material-spiritual needs of the complex entity of the human being. While present in the Judeo tradition, Grace is more popularly associated with Christianity. A national, ethnic, or cultural sense of identity, to hang or to flesh out a people upon its foundational ideas. Indeed, the world today is seeing a crisis between national and global identity. If Globalism will be honest and not elitist it will reckon with all of the challenges of redeeming primitivism. I don't how to make sense of it all, in the context of the filthy rich bastards as related on this thread. (are they running us to profit off us, including our pathetic attempts at sound religion)? Lee, -not even ONE of your three claims are the reason for modern day prosperity . They certainly not due to Judeo-Christian heritage as you claim. . Our modern day prosperity is far more due to the Age of Enlightenment instead of any Judeo-Christian heritage. The Age of Enlightenment or the Age of Reason was an intellectual and philosophical movement that dominated the world of ideas in Europe during the 18th century, the "Century of Philosophy".
The Enlightenment included a range of ideas centered on reason as the primary source of authority and legitimacy and came to advance ideals like liberty, progress, tolerance, fraternity, constitutional government and separation of church and state.
In France, the central doctrines of the Enlightenment philosophers were individual liberty and religious tolerance, in opposition to an absolute monarchy and the fixed dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. from wiki
The Enlightenment was marked by an emphasis on the scientific method and reductionism, along with increased questioning of religious orthodoxy—an attitude captured by the phrase Sapere aude, "Dare to know"." Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal." ~ Albert Einstein Whereas the quote above could easily be dismissed as the 'progress-denying' sentiment of a disgruntled anti-GMO activist, the fact is that it came from a scientist representing the very epitome of Western rationality and accomplishment. Perhaps Einstein was reflecting on the inevitable existential consequences of the so-called "technological imperative"--whatever can be done, will be done. Fundamentally amoral and irrational economic and political forces drive technology's feverish pace, infusing a certain arbitrary cruelty and disequilibrium into everything it touches.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 12, 2018 0:17:18 GMT -5
Lee, -not even ONE of your three claims are the reason for modern day prosperity . They certainly not due to Judeo-Christian heritage as you claim. . Our modern day prosperity is far more due to the Age of Enlightenment instead of any Judeo-Christian heritage. The Age of Enlightenment or the Age of Reason was an intellectual and philosophical movement that dominated the world of ideas in Europe during the 18th century, the "Century of Philosophy".
The Enlightenment included a range of ideas centered on reason as the primary source of authority and legitimacy and came to advance ideals like liberty, progress, tolerance, fraternity, constitutional government and separation of church and state.
In France, the central doctrines of the Enlightenment philosophers were individual liberty and religious tolerance, in opposition to an absolute monarchy and the fixed dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. from wiki
The Enlightenment was marked by an emphasis on the scientific method and reductionism, along with increased questioning of religious orthodoxy—an attitude captured by the phrase Sapere aude, "Dare to know". " Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal." ~ Albert Einstein Whereas the quote above could easily be dismissed as the 'progress-denying' sentiment of a disgruntled anti-GMO activist, the fact is that it came from a scientist representing the very epitome of Western rationality and accomplishment. Perhaps Einstein was reflecting on the inevitable existential consequences of the so-called "technological imperative"--whatever can be done, will be done. Fundamentally amoral and irrational economic and political forces drive technology's feverish pace, infusing a certain arbitrary cruelty and disequilibrium into everything it touches. Lee, are you by any chance the same bloke that wrote Revelations?
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Post by speak on Nov 12, 2018 0:36:15 GMT -5
I see wisdom hasn't smiled on you yet. I see it's already laughing on you. Yours maybe
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 12, 2018 2:54:49 GMT -5
After trying to tell someone the same thing multiple times and they keep repeating their same old post, -it does tend to ruffle one's feathers.
I am 86 with long years of knowledge of what we in my day called *THE TRUTH.* The same that today you call something different after finally finding out that it did not go all the way back to the first disciples. (which BTW, I knew even as a child)
So go ahead and "tut tut" all you like if it helps make you feel superior. I see wisdom hasn't smiled on you yet. Speak,
I am wondering just what you think "wisdom " has anything to do with the subject we are discussing? We were discussing the subject of a "communal effort by the fellowship to help others in need."
What I said was that all the time that I was in the fellowship as well as growing up in it, -40 some years, (an now + another 40 years having family still in what we called the *TRUTH,*) -I never heard of any communal effort by the fellowship to help others in need.
Please tell me what that has anything to do with your comment that: "I (you) see wisdom hasn't smiled on you (me) yet?"
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 12, 2018 3:31:11 GMT -5
Lee, -not even ONE of your three claims are the reason for modern day prosperity . They certainly not due to Judeo-Christian heritage as you claim. . Our modern day prosperity is far more due to the Age of Enlightenment instead of any Judeo-Christian heritage. The Age of Enlightenment or the Age of Reason was an intellectual and philosophical movement that dominated the world of ideas in Europe during the 18th century, the "Century of Philosophy".
The Enlightenment included a range of ideas centered on reason as the primary source of authority and legitimacy and came to advance ideals like liberty, progress, tolerance, fraternity, constitutional government and separation of church and state.
In France, the central doctrines of the Enlightenment philosophers were individual liberty and religious tolerance, in opposition to an absolute monarchy and the fixed dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. from wiki The Enlightenment was marked by an emphasis on the scientific method and reductionism, along with increased questioning of religious orthodoxy—an attitude captured by the phrase Sapere aude, "Dare to know". " Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal." ~ Albert Einstein Whereas the quote above could easily be dismissed as the 'progress-denying' sentiment of a disgruntled anti-GMO activist, the fact is that it came from a scientist representing the very epitome of Western rationality and accomplishment. Perhaps Einstein was reflecting on the inevitable existential consequences of the so-called " technological imperative"--whatever can be done, will be done. Fundamentally amoral and irrational economic and political forces drive technology's feverish pace, infusing a certain arbitrary cruelty and disequilibrium into everything it touches. Lee, surely you do not honestly think just because Albert Einstein made that statement that he would have wanted to go back from these days of the scientific method of determining reality and return to any Judeo-Christian way?
You are right in that the world is seeing a crisis between national and global identity.
But we damn well need to wake up and realize that trying to retreat to our warm little cave of of tribalism is NOT an option anymore!
We are far too intermingled in too many ways, -by economics, -by trade, -by communication; -to ever again think that we are all so different from one another that we can go it alone.
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