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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 28, 2018 22:53:05 GMT -5
One sister worker from Iowa did teach at a Chinese University, and also was a student there as well. I know a worker who went to university in Romania - became highly educated in the process. Did he take a major or just took courses that interested him?
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Post by nathan on Oct 28, 2018 23:50:57 GMT -5
I showed you the testimony of the friends and the workers who taught in the school in Vietnam in the past. Don't you remember? David G. was from San Francisco area when I first met him in 1980. I met two professing Americans at Boring conventions a few years back, when they went to Vietnam and taught in the school over there. So, how can you say they NEVER got to teach in the school?
I have seen David G. face book pictures of where many of his Vietnamese students had a going away party/retired back to the United States for him also. I believe the school is closed now... Once the country opened up.
I don't remember that at all. I posted David G. testimony on the thread workers and friends went to Vietnam as English teachers.. and David/professing friend from San Francisco, where he mentioned that he went to Vietnam to Teach English in one of the friends school there.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 29, 2018 0:24:55 GMT -5
I know a worker who went to university in Romania - became highly educated in the process. Interesting Did his higher education enhance his effectiveness in evangelizing in a noticeable way? Alvin It was a lady. I understand that she did indeed influence a number of people to profess, though I can't speculate on how many.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 29, 2018 0:26:35 GMT -5
I know a worker who went to university in Romania - became highly educated in the process. Did he take a major or just took courses that interested him? Yes, she took a major and I understand she got a degree. I don't know about a post graduate degree, but she was actually enrolled as a normal student.
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Post by magpie1 on Oct 29, 2018 0:34:05 GMT -5
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Post by Lee on Oct 29, 2018 4:35:35 GMT -5
This whole topic seems to me to be related to what we know or think we know. Here is one of the most penetrating truths I have ever read: "The world is more complex than we can imagine, and every new point of view we encounter can enrich our understanding even if we don’t embrace it entirely. But this comes with the risk of self-effacement and growing uncertainty. Imagine that you are standing in a small clearing in the middle of a vast forest, and that this forest represents your ignorance of the world. The clearing you stand in represents your knowledge. As one gains knowledge, the clearing expands and the forest of ignorance recedes. But as the clearing expands, so does its circumference and so the area of contact between knowledge and ignorance also grows, and our knowledge of the extent of our ignorance grows with it. So, paradoxically, the wiser we become, the less wise we feel. This is the wellspring of intellectual humility, the Socratic realization that the more you know, the more you realize you don’t know, and the more apparent it becomes that your own opinions are susceptible to fallibility." It came from this article, every word of which bears reading irrespective of your ideological orientation. If you think that there is nothing here to think about . . . think again. quillette.com/2018/03/10/psychology-progressive-hostility/?fbclid=IwAR3B2bsP0kf0rtl2K_3oLd5X49sg4J_kScVSZZ3ErcXRGTnu5GDOG5fNZYc Thanks for sharing that article. Very good . I’m naturally biased to consider my dad a wise man , but he said “ the older I get , the less I KNOW” (He is 93 now ). Alvin A good read indeed!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 29, 2018 9:53:34 GMT -5
Did he take a major or just took courses that interested him? Yes, she took a major and I understand she got a degree. I don't know about a post graduate degree, but she was actually enrolled as a normal student. That's good then. Who'd think people become workers to get a college degree. That's like a joining the military to get ones education!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 29, 2018 10:04:16 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing that article. Very good . I’m naturally biased to consider my dad a wise man , but he said “ the older I get , the less I KNOW” (He is 93 now ). Alvin A good read indeed! People who like to learn, can say they don't know anything by yet. But then they keep pursuing more and more information. Yet at the end if their active life they then say the more they learn the less they know. The article reminded me of an acquaintance, who couldn't talk without use swear words to punctuate her speech! One day she was complaining that she was so tired of having to listen to people that can't talk without swearing. I nearly swallowed my tongue in trying to keep my mouth shut and telling her "Now you know how we've all felt when talking to you ". But I managed to not say it and pray that she takes her own thoughts about swearing to her in talk.
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Post by snow on Oct 29, 2018 14:10:09 GMT -5
Anybody that figures they are very very smart and knowledgeable with all the answers , probably is not . Curiousity and gaining knowledge is good . Doubtful humanity as a whole knows 1 percent of what is to be known Alvin The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.- Einstein Human Brain Indexing Will Consume Several Billion Petabytes In a recent lecture at Harvard University neuroscientist Jeff Lichtman, who is attempting to map the human brain, has calculated that several billion petabytes of data storage would be needed to index the entire human brain. The Internet is currently estimated to be 5 million terabytes (TB) of which Google has indexed roughly 200 TB or just .004% of its total size. The numbers involved are astounding especially when considering the size of the human brain and the number of neurons in it. I agree. The more I read and research the more questions I have. There is so much to learn. I love learning but it sometimes distresses me that I will never have the answers to some things in my lifetime.
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Post by rational on Oct 29, 2018 14:14:19 GMT -5
Anybody that figures they are very very smart and knowledgeable with all the answers , probably is not . Curiousity and gaining knowledge is good . Doubtful humanity as a whole knows 1 percent of what is to be known ??? Alvin The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.- Einstein Human Brain Indexing Will Consume Several Billion Petabytes In a recent lecture at Harvard University neuroscientist Jeff Lichtman, who is attempting to map the human brain, has calculated that several billion petabytes of data storage would be needed to index the entire human brain. The Internet is currently estimated to be 5 million terabytes (TB) of which Google has indexed roughly 200 TB or just .004% of its total size. The numbers involved are astounding especially when considering the size of the human brain and the number of neurons in it. I agree. The more I read and research the more questions I have. There is so much to learn. I love learning but it sometimes distresses me that I will never have the answers to some things in my lifetime. I am saving 3.5 petabytes for new things.
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Post by snow on Oct 29, 2018 15:20:45 GMT -5
I agree. The more I read and research the more questions I have. There is so much to learn. I love learning but it sometimes distresses me that I will never have the answers to some things in my lifetime. I am saving 3.5 petabytes for new things. Ha! Maybe they can just freeze me and when they figure out how to bring us back and fix our diseases and the reasons for old age, I can be unfroze and I can continue learning....
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 29, 2018 15:32:27 GMT -5
Well, it seems evangelists are better funded and seem to hit the more elite areas. Whereas missionaries seem to work in poorer areas. Evangelists often are seminary educated whereas missionaries are more often from laity, but neither one are set in that. I have seen workers gospel door to door invitations, where the workers put their titles as Evangelists, apostles, ministers. Some put missionaries. I believed my companions put our titles were Ministers on our gospel invitations when we went from door to door. The workers are all of the above, some have more gifts in one area than the others, a few workers have most of these gifts.That may be why the outsiders don't come very often If the workers would use the word "missionaries", the outsiders would be more apt to come. It's the definition of the word they use, that in humans mind just react to. It's not very interesting to want to go to ministers having church related mtgs. Because ministers are the broad category of spiritual leaders. Evangelists are a little better because people that are evangelists are into evangelizing people into a spiritual church. But for some strange reason, missionaries are the easiest to spur interest into what a missionary is planning to do with his mission. People often equate missionary with exotic or very poor environment. And if it's in the US, people wonder if these missionaries are back home and have astounding stories to tell about the mission they just finished in some poor drought or starving country. So they'll go to see what it is all about. And get people there the first time and if it is their day of visitation, they'll keep coming.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 29, 2018 18:27:57 GMT -5
There are evangelicals amongst any group , including atheists . I have heard the question about Christians , “ are they evangelical Christians “ but I don’t recall being asked about an atheist whether they are evangelical or not , although not difficult to recognize . There are organizations ,(“churches”), devoted to evangelical atheism . Alvin An evangelical atheist is an atheist who is not content merely with his own lack of faith but is also obsessed with (i) censoring expressions of faith by others and (ii) attempting to sow disbelief in others around him. www.conservapedia.com/Evangelical_atheistI think there is a possibility that you are mixing atheists up with a far broader group. Atheists do not believe in god and there is no toaster or prize available, in this life or in an after life, for gaining 'converts'. It is not the theist's belief in a god that is the issue it is the continual attempt of theists trying to force their beliefs on others using public funds. When I was growing up there were 'blue laws' that prevented some stores from being open on Sunday. I could never see the point because no one was forced to patronize those stores on Sunday. It seemed that the law was selfish and gave credence to the quote from Mencken: Puritanism - The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy. Maybe most of our resident atheists on TMB aren't honestly trying to convert the theists on TMB. However there's been a couple who sure have given us theists the feeling that they are out to convert us to atheism.
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Post by rational on Oct 29, 2018 22:48:04 GMT -5
I think there is a possibility that you are mixing atheists up with a far broader group. Atheists do not believe in god and there is no toaster or prize available, in this life or in an after life, for gaining 'converts'. It is not the theist's belief in a god that is the issue it is the continual attempt of theists trying to force their beliefs on others using public funds. When I was growing up there were 'blue laws' that prevented some stores from being open on Sunday. I could never see the point because no one was forced to patronize those stores on Sunday. It seemed that the law was selfish and gave credence to the quote from Mencken: Puritanism - The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy. Maybe most of our resident atheists on TMB aren't honestly trying to convert the theists on TMB. However there's been a couple who sure have given us theists the feeling that they are out to convert us to atheism. How would that 'conversion' come into being? You either believe or you don't.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 22:51:20 GMT -5
Maybe most of our resident atheists on TMB aren't honestly trying to convert the theists on TMB. However there's been a couple who sure have given us theists the feeling that they are out to convert us to atheism. How would that 'conversion' come into being? You either believe or you don't. you can destroy someones belief in something or deconstruct it.....
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Post by rational on Oct 29, 2018 23:31:08 GMT -5
How would that 'conversion' come into being? You either believe or you don't. you can destroy someones belief in something or deconstruct it..... You can point out the lack of support for a belief but people believe or disbelieve on their own. If there is someone who thinks the earth is flat and they change their mind when presented with data that supports the round world theory you can hardly be considered to have converted them.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 30, 2018 0:21:25 GMT -5
Maybe most of our resident atheists on TMB aren't honestly trying to convert the theists on TMB. However there's been a couple who sure have given us theists the feeling that they are out to convert us to atheism. How would that 'conversion' come into being? You either believe or you don't. Well, with atheists pushing all the fairy tales being alike as well the Bible and all the inconsistencies etc, they get a theists to start doubting themselves and so it goes on and on, until the theist is an atheist.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 0:31:53 GMT -5
you can destroy someones belief in something or deconstruct it..... You can point out the lack of support for a belief but people believe or disbelieve on their own. If there is someone who thinks the earth is flat and they change their mind when presented with data that supports the round world theory you can hardly be considered to have converted them. so in your mind if there is data for something its not a conversion? thats not really what convert means....says nothing about data.... convert: to bring over from one belief, view, or party to another to bring about a religious conversion in
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Post by rational on Oct 30, 2018 0:41:04 GMT -5
How would that 'conversion' come into being? You either believe or you don't. Well, with atheists pushing all the fairy tales being alike as well the Bible and all the inconsistencies etc, they get a theists to start doubting themselves and so it goes on and on, until the theist is an atheist. That is not converting. It is presenting a different point of view with the facts supporting that view. Nothing has changed. It is like opening a window shade and suddenly being able to see what is actually in the room. Not a conversion as such but the presentation of reality. Then it is up to the person to decide what to believe. Unless the messenger is lying I fail to see the issue.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 30, 2018 1:32:51 GMT -5
People who like to learn, can say they don't know anything by yet. It's all relative to how much you really know. People who don't like to learn have n idea how much they DON'T know. Better said would be the more they learn the more they realize how much there is to learn that they'll never have time to learn. I think you'd have done her a lot more good by saying what you thought of saying.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 30, 2018 1:42:29 GMT -5
Well, with atheists pushing all the fairy tales being alike as well the Bible and all the inconsistencies etc, they get a theists to start doubting themselves and so it goes on and on, until the theist is an atheist. That is not converting. It is presenting a different point of view with the facts supporting that view. Nothing has changed. It is like opening a window shade and suddenly being able to see what is actually in the room. Not a conversion as such but the presentation of reality. Then it is up to the person to decide what to believe. Unless the messenger is lying I fail to see the issue. It's the weakness of human nature that doesn't like to be consistently made to look like an ignoramous or stupid. So often unconsciously that person's defenses will want to change that and will actually convert to another way of thinking out of self defense. Thus unconsciously they find themselves with the overenthusiastic person's words going around and around and end up thinking like that enthusiastic person does. Voila! You've converted a theist into an atheist. When the "faith" concepts are under attack, and as we all know there are no tangible facts for that faith, it's easy to riddle that faith by hitting it hard with tangible things that make faith look foolish. Thus is the background of the dangers if theists being sociable with atheists. All of us have our times when our faith is easily shaken. This is the reason for not socializing with people who have no faith and furthermore think it's a stupid way to live. The Bible is pretty distinct on what or who those of faith find themselves fellowshipping with. Fact is, there is no fellowship until the basic exchanges change due to one or the other having their thought processes altered. Then you take one of faith and for some stressful reason their faith is shaken. Then they allow themselves to be fellowshipping with one of nonfaith, they are susceptible to that exchange and often their faith is further challenged. This is where we of faith need to be working out our salvation with fear and trembling. And we can't do that under a barrage of nonfaith pressures.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 30, 2018 1:44:35 GMT -5
People who like to learn, can say they don't know anything by yet. It's all relative to how much you really know. People who don't like to learn have n idea how much they DON'T know. Better said would be the more they learn the more they realize how much there is to learn that they'll never have time to learn. I think you'd have done her a lot more good by saying what you thought of saying. I think you're right, but that was back when I was much younger and worried about hurting feelings.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 30, 2018 1:47:43 GMT -5
It's all relative to how much you really know. People who don't like to learn have n idea how much they DON'T know. Better said would be the more they learn the more they realize how much there is to learn that they'll never have time to learn. I think you'd have done her a lot more good by saying what you thought of saying. I think you're right, but that was back when I was much younger and worried about hurting feelings. True. And we undoubtedly have less tact at such things as we do when we're older.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 30, 2018 1:57:05 GMT -5
How would that 'conversion' come into being? You either believe or you don't. Well, with atheists pushing all the fairy tales being alike as well the Bible and all the inconsistencies etc, they get a theists to start doubting themselves and so it goes on and on, until the theist is an atheist. How is it about people "start doubting themselves?"
Isn't it rather about starting to to question what they believe, -not who they are?
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 30, 2018 2:12:42 GMT -5
That is not converting. It is presenting a different point of view with the facts supporting that view. Nothing has changed. It is like opening a window shade and suddenly being able to see what is actually in the room. Not a conversion as such but the presentation of reality. Then it is up to the person to decide what to believe. Unless the messenger is lying I fail to see the issue. It's the weakness of human nature that doesn't like to be consistently made to look like an ignoramous or stupid. So often unconsciously that person's defenses will want to change that and will actually convert to another way of thinking out of self defense. Thus unconsciously they find themselves with the overenthusiastic person's words going around and around and end up thinking like that enthusiastic person does. Voila! You've converted a theist into an atheist. When the "faith" concepts are under attack, and as we all know there are no tangible facts for that faith, it's easy to riddle thatfaith by hitting it hard with tangible things that make faith look foolish. Thus is the background of the dangers if theists being sociable with atheists.All of us have our times when our faith is easily shaken. This is the reason for not socializing with people who have no faith and furthermore think it's a stupid way to live. The Bible is pretty distinct on what or who those of faith find themselves fellowshipping with. Fact is, there is no fellowship until the basic exchanges change due to one or the other having their thought processes altered.Then you take one of faith and for some stressful reason their faith is shaken. Then they allow themselves to be fellowshipping with one of nonfaith, they are susceptible to that exchange and often their faith is further challenged. This is where we of faith need to be working out our salvation with fear and trembling. And we can't do that under a barrage of nonfaith pressures. STR, then perhaps you realize why some of us do not care much for socializing with people who do believe in something that we had believed just because we were born & raised in it?
But through thoughtful analysis we realize that there isn't anything to it after all?
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Post by magpie1 on Oct 30, 2018 2:32:51 GMT -5
I thought this board started re EVANGELICAL. Those who teach/preach the Evangel==Gospel,and those who follow that Evangel/Gospel teaching must be Evangelical....Lets start again. What a lot of twaddle stay with the original query,help the original poster,shouldn't we?? Magpie.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 30, 2018 2:43:51 GMT -5
I thought this board started re EVANGELICAL. Those who teach/preach the Evangel==Gospel,and those who follow that Evangel/Gospel teaching must be Evangelical.... Lets start again. What a lot of twaddle stay with the original query,help the original poster,shouldn't we?? Magpie. Well someone couldn't pass up a chance to call some atheists "evangelical atheists
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Post by slowtosee on Oct 30, 2018 8:24:32 GMT -5
I regret and apologize for bringing up the subject . Alvin
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