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Post by snow on Oct 20, 2018 13:31:28 GMT -5
Women were killed if they weren't virgins. Only one way to test that back then. Women were quite capable of hunting and gathering. The only thing they needed protection from was other men. They became property because men wanted to make sure the offspring was theirs. Women weren't allowed to have property of their own. If they were I'm quite confident they could have survived just fine without a man. I can't believe the archaic beliefs some men on here have about women. It wasn't the women that went around raping and pillaging or causing wars to be fought. In today's world the thing we still need the most protection from, if we need any at all, is from men themselves. read proverbs 31 about a virtuous woman and what she can do.... its nothing like you describe.... When god ordered the deaths of everyone but the virgins, there is only one way to test that. Rape them. I'm sure they weren't willing. Women were property and kept as long as they were beneficial to the man. Proverbs 31 talks about how she can care for her family and her husband and how to make him proud. Not a thing about her taking care of herself. It's all about what she has to give to the man.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2018 23:53:06 GMT -5
read proverbs 31 about a virtuous woman and what she can do.... its nothing like you describe.... When god ordered the deaths of everyone but the virgins, there is only one way to test that. Rape them. I'm sure they weren't willing. Women were property and kept as long as they were beneficial to the man. Proverbs 31 talks about how she can care for her family and her husband and how to make him proud. Not a thing about her taking care of herself. It's all about what she has to give to the man. ummm no....
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 21, 2018 0:27:44 GMT -5
When god ordered the deaths of everyone but the virgins, there is only one way to test that. Rape them. I'm sure they weren't willing. Women were property and kept as long as they were beneficial to the man. Proverbs 31 talks about how she can care for her family and her husband and how to make him proud. Not a thing about her taking care of herself. It's all about what she has to give to the man. ummm no.... Read it again, wally.
Tell me one place that it says that she does even one thing to "care for herself." Proverbs 31:10-31 Epilogue: The Wife of Noble Character 10 A wife of noble character who can find? She is worth far more than rubies. 11 Her husband has full confidence in her and lacks nothing of value. 12 She brings him good, not harm, all the days of her life. 13 She selects wool and flax and works with eager hands. 14 She is like the merchant ships, bringing her food from afar. 15 She gets up while it is still night; she provides food for her family and portions for her female servants. 16 She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard. 17 She sets about her work vigorously; her arms are strong for her tasks. 18 She sees that her trading is profitable, and her lamp does not go out at night. 19 In her hand she holds the distaff and grasps the spindle with her fingers. 20 She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy. 21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household; for all of them are clothed in scarlet. 22 She makes coverings for her bed; she is clothed in fine linen and purple. 23 Her husband is respected at the city gate, where he takes his seat among the elders of the land. 24 She makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies the merchants with sashes. 25 She is clothed with strength and dignity; she can laugh at the days to come. 26 She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue. 27 She watches over the affairs of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness. 28 Her children arise and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her: 29 “Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all.” 30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting; but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised. 31 Honor her for all that her hands have done, and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2018 3:39:22 GMT -5
Read it again, wally.
Tell me one place that it says that she does even one thing to "care for herself." Proverbs 31:10-31 Epilogue: The Wife of Noble Character 10 A wife of noble character who can find? She is worth far more than rubies. 11 Her husband has full confidence in her and lacks nothing of value. 12 She brings him good, not harm, all the days of her life. 13 She selects wool and flax and works with eager hands. 14 She is like the merchant ships, bringing her food from afar. 15 She gets up while it is still night; she provides food for her family and portions for her female servants. 16 She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard. 17 She sets about her work vigorously; her arms are strong for her tasks. 18 She sees that her trading is profitable, and her lamp does not go out at night. 19 In her hand she holds the distaff and grasps the spindle with her fingers. 20 She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy. 21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household; for all of them are clothed in scarlet. 22 She makes coverings for her bed; she is clothed in fine linen and purple. 23 Her husband is respected at the city gate, where he takes his seat among the elders of the land. 24 She makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies the merchants with sashes. 25 She is clothed with strength and dignity; she can laugh at the days to come. 26 She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue. 27 She watches over the affairs of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness. 28 Her children arise and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her: 29 “Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all.” 30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting; but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised. 31 Honor her for all that her hands have done, and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.
that isn't what i said no too...
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 21, 2018 4:11:19 GMT -5
Read it again, wally.
Tell me one place that it says that she does even one thing to "care for herself." Proverbs 31:10-31 Epilogue: The Wife of Noble Character 10 A wife of noble character who can find? She is worth far more than rubies. 11 Her husband has full confidence in her and lacks nothing of value. 12 She brings him good, not harm, all the days of her life. 13 She selects wool and flax and works with eager hands. 14 She is like the merchant ships, bringing her food from afar. 15 She gets up while it is still night; she provides food for her family and portions for her female servants. 16 She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard. 17 She sets about her work vigorously; her arms are strong for her tasks. 18 She sees that her trading is profitable, and her lamp does not go out at night. 19 In her hand she holds the distaff and grasps the spindle with her fingers. 20 She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy. 21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household; for all of them are clothed in scarlet. 22 She makes coverings for her bed; she is clothed in fine linen and purple. 23 Her husband is respected at the city gate, where he takes his seat among the elders of the land. 24 She makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies the merchants with sashes. 25 She is clothed with strength and dignity; she can laugh at the days to come. 26 She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue. 27 She watches over the affairs of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness. 28 Her children arise and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her: 29 “Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all.” 30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting; but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised. 31 Honor her for all that her hands have done, and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.
that isn't what i said no too... Read it again, wally.
Tell me one place that it says that she does even one thing to "care for herself." Proverbs 31:10-31 Epilogue: The Wife of Noble Character 10 A wife of noble character who can find? She is worth far more than rubies. 11 Her husband has full confidence in her and lacks nothing of value. 12 She brings him good, not harm, all the days of her life. 13 She selects wool and flax and works with eager hands. 14 She is like the merchant ships, bringing her food from afar. 15 She gets up while it is still night; she provides food for her family and portions for her female servants. 16 She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard. 17 She sets about her work vigorously; her arms are strong for her tasks. 18 She sees that her trading is profitable, and her lamp does not go out at night. 19 In her hand she holds the distaff and grasps the spindle with her fingers. 20 She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy. 21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household; for all of them are clothed in scarlet. 22 She makes coverings for her bed; she is clothed in fine linen and purple. 23 Her husband is respected at the city gate, where he takes his seat among the elders of the land. 24 She makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies the merchants with sashes. 25 She is clothed with strength and dignity; she can laugh at the days to come. 26 She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue. 27 She watches over the affairs of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness. 28 Her children arise and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her: 29 “Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all.” 30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting; but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised. 31 Honor her for all that her hands have done, and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.
that isn't what i said no too... Then just what WERE you saying "NO" to?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2018 6:37:40 GMT -5
that isn't what i said no too... that isn't what i said no too... Then just what WERE you saying "NO" to?
raping women to see if they were virgins....
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Post by snow on Oct 21, 2018 11:55:52 GMT -5
When god ordered the deaths of everyone but the virgins, there is only one way to test that. Rape them. I'm sure they weren't willing. Women were property and kept as long as they were beneficial to the man. Proverbs 31 talks about how she can care for her family and her husband and how to make him proud. Not a thing about her taking care of herself. It's all about what she has to give to the man. ummm no.... Show me where it talks about her. All it talks about is what she can do to help her family and make her husband respectful.
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Post by snow on Oct 21, 2018 11:58:00 GMT -5
Then just what WERE you saying "NO" to?
raping women to see if they were virgins.... Okay, tell me how they determined if a woman was a virgin and not to be killed? There is only one way to determine that. Not always a sure way, but back then it was the only way. They were allowed to keep the virgins alive. How do you think they determined which of the women were virgins and which were not?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2018 14:44:02 GMT -5
raping women to see if they were virgins.... Okay, tell me how they determined if a woman was a virgin and not to be killed? There is only one way to determine that. Not always a sure way, but back then it was the only way. They were allowed to keep the virgins alive. How do you think they determined which of the women were virgins and which were not? the jewish women could have examined them to determine if they were virgins or not, these were not modern women by any measure with sports and female products and methods making it harder to determine virginity...
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kavanaugh
Oct 21, 2018 22:57:20 GMT -5
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Post by Lee on Oct 21, 2018 22:57:20 GMT -5
Young girls would typically be virgins. Virgin just meant a young girl then. Women were identified in their culture from a mans sexual perspective.
That's neither bad nor good. It's good for the fact that, thank God, someone realizes were sexual. It was bad, in the sense that women had to define themselves by men.
Some women digged it then. Some dig it today. There will always be exceptions to such a rule because men, and women, are more than their sexual dimension.
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kavanaugh
Oct 21, 2018 23:03:01 GMT -5
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Post by Lee on Oct 21, 2018 23:03:01 GMT -5
Snow, for the record, it's rather weird on your part to suggest the ancients or anyone else, in order to establish whether a girl was virgin they had to rumpy pumpyed them first is frankly pornographic, and of no lasting literary value.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 21, 2018 23:58:38 GMT -5
Snow, for the record, it's rather weird on your part to suggest the ancients or anyone else, in order to establish whether a girl was virgin they had to rumpy pumpyed them first is frankly pornographic, and of no lasting literary value. "weird? "frankly pornographic," Lee?
How?
I thought Porno was sex by consenting people and done for enjoyment and erotic sexual titillation for others watching.
Would seeing little girls having their virginity checked be enjoyable and titillating for you, Lee?
(and what has "lasting literary value" have anything to do with the subject anyway?) newsafricanow.com/2018/10/21/un-who-want-to-end-virginity-test-globally/
UN, WHO Want to End Virginity Test Globally
Rabat – The UN agencies, UN Human Rights, UN Women along with the World Health Organization (WHO) have called for a ban on the virginity testing for women and girls worldwide.Virginity test still exists in Morocco. It is generally required of young girls and women about to marry. UN agencies and WHO said in a joint statement that the virginity examination has no scientific basis. “There is no examination that can prove a girl or woman has had sex-and the appearance of girl’s or woman’s hymen cannot prove whether they have had sexual intercourse, or are sexually active or not.”
The agencies and WHO also decided that the test is a violation to human rights as it might undermine women ’s physical, social and psychological well being. The joint statement argued that the test might be harmful and must never be carried out as it is unnecessary.
In February, the Moroccan Association of Sexology called on the Ministry of Health to exempt medical doctors from the delivery of virginity certificate. The association believes that the test violates both doctor’s oath of medical confidentiality and the right to privacy of women and girls. The association said in its appeal that the document is generally delivered to family members other than girls, a situation that violates patients” right to privacy and dignity. Moroccan civil law does not prescribe the infamous document as necessary for the validity of a marital union.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 22, 2018 1:56:42 GMT -5
Okay, tell me how they determined if a woman was a virgin and not to be killed? There is only one way to determine that. Not always a sure way, but back then it was the only way. They were allowed to keep the virgins alive. How do you think they determined which of the women were virgins and which were not? the jewish women could have examined them to determine if they were virgins or not, these were not modern women by any measure with sports and female products and methods making it harder to determine virginity... Wait! a minute, where did these Jewish women come from who could have examined them to determine if they were virgins or not.
Those women were DEAD already! Remember?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 2:02:41 GMT -5
the jewish women could have examined them to determine if they were virgins or not, these were not modern women by any measure with sports and female products and methods making it harder to determine virginity... Wait! a minute, where did these Jewish women come from who could have examined them to determine if they were virgins or not.
Those women were DEAD already! Remember?ummm what? the foreign women were killed not the jewish women in the hebrew camps all battles were conducted by the men not the women no jewish women died at all....
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Post by rational on Oct 22, 2018 9:28:25 GMT -5
Wait! a minute, where did these Jewish women come from who could have examined them to determine if they were virgins or not.
Those women were DEAD already! Remember? ummm what? the foreign women were killed not the jewish women in the hebrew camps all battles were conducted by the men not the women no jewish women died at all.... The question would be how did the men determine which of the captive women were to be killed because they were not virgins? There is currently no conclusive test to determine if a female has been sexually active. The certainly was not a test back then. The real concern is a paranormal being who would demand that a non-virgin be killed without providing a means of proof.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 12:37:26 GMT -5
ummm what? the foreign women were killed not the jewish women in the hebrew camps all battles were conducted by the men not the women no jewish women died at all.... The question would be how did the men determine which of the captive women were to be killed because they were not virgins? There is currently no conclusive test to determine if a female has been sexually active. The certainly was not a test back then. The real concern is a paranormal being who would demand that a non-virgin be killed without providing a means of proof. these were not modern women there are signs and you know what i am talking about....
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kavanaugh
Oct 22, 2018 14:49:43 GMT -5
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Post by Lee on Oct 22, 2018 14:49:43 GMT -5
Snow, for the record, it's rather weird on your part to suggest the ancients or anyone else, in order to establish whether a girl was virgin they had to rumpy pumpyed them first is frankly pornographic, and of no lasting literary value. "weird? "frankly pornographic," Lee?
How?
I thought Porno was sex by consenting people and done for enjoyment and erotic sexual titillation for others watching.
Would seeing little girls having their virginity checked be enjoyable and titillating for you, Lee?
(and what has "lasting literary value" have anything to do with the subject anyway?) newsafricanow.com/2018/10/21/un-who-want-to-end-virginity-test-globally/
UN, WHO Want to End Virginity Test Globally
Rabat – The UN agencies, UN Human Rights, UN Women along with the World Health Organization (WHO) have called for a ban on the virginity testing for women and girls worldwide.Virginity test still exists in Morocco. It is generally required of young girls and women about to marry. UN agencies and WHO said in a joint statement that the virginity examination has no scientific basis. “There is no examination that can prove a girl or woman has had sex-and the appearance of girl’s or woman’s hymen cannot prove whether they have had sexual intercourse, or are sexually active or not.”
The agencies and WHO also decided that the test is a violation to human rights as it might undermine women ’s physical, social and psychological well being. The joint statement argued that the test might be harmful and must never be carried out as it is unnecessary.
In February, the Moroccan Association of Sexology called on the Ministry of Health to exempt medical doctors from the delivery of virginity certificate. The association believes that the test violates both doctor’s oath of medical confidentiality and the right to privacy of women and girls. The association said in its appeal that the document is generally delivered to family members other than girls, a situation that violates patients” right to privacy and dignity. Moroccan civil law does not prescribe the infamous document as necessary for the validity of a marital union. Pornographic as in shocking, perverse, or obscene.
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kavanaugh
Oct 22, 2018 16:24:59 GMT -5
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Post by Lee on Oct 22, 2018 16:24:59 GMT -5
As far as regarding women as property goes, that still goes on today. Its just part of the courtship arrangement that a man sells himself to women. He does this by his charms, his background, his education, and his job. Many mothers participate in this process as well, grooming their sons, knowing their efforts will one day result in a daughter in law.
In your relationship with others, it's not bad to be valued or compared to property, necessarily. Business owners, own their employees, in a sense. All good people will own their responsibilities, in another sense. It's not a random coincidence that we speak of land as being real property. To be valued as a possession of someone or something, is the basis of all real relationship.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 22, 2018 19:54:36 GMT -5
As far as regarding women as property goes, that still goes on today. Its just part of the courtship arrangement that a man sells himself to women. He does this by his charms, his background, his education, and his job. Many mothers participate in this process as well, grooming their sons, knowing their efforts will one day result in a daughter in law. In your relationship with others, it's not bad to be valued or compared to property, necessarily. Business owners, own their employees, in a sense. All good people will own their responsibilities, in another sense. It's not a random coincidence that we speak of land as being real property. To be valued as a possession of someone or something, is the basis of all real relationship. Bull Sh*T, Lee. If you keep trying to make up such erroneous crap as that in an attempt to rationalize away an obvious truth it is apt to get your brain in such a a tangle that you are likely to strangle a blood vessel and have a stroke.
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Post by rational on Oct 22, 2018 20:29:59 GMT -5
The question would be how did the men determine which of the captive women were to be killed because they were not virgins? There is currently no conclusive test to determine if a female has been sexually active. The certainly was not a test back then. The real concern is a paranormal being who would demand that a non-virgin be killed without providing a means of proof. these were not modern women there are signs and you know what i am talking about.... It is difficult to guess what you are talking about but there is no way to determine if a woman has been sexually active. Can you explain what method you feel would provide proof one way or another?
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Post by rational on Oct 22, 2018 20:33:33 GMT -5
As far as regarding women as property goes, that still goes on today. Its just part of the courtship arrangement that a man sells himself to women. He does this by his charms, his background, his education, and his job. Many mothers participate in this process as well, grooming their sons, knowing their efforts will one day result in a daughter in law. In your relationship with others, it's not bad to be valued or compared to property, necessarily. Business owners, own their employees, in a sense. All good people will own their responsibilities, in another sense. It's not a random coincidence that we speak of land as being real property. To be valued as a possession of someone or something, is the basis of all real relationship.If I were to hazard a guess I would say you have been in some strange relationships. To be valued as a possession of someone or something, is the basis of slavery.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 22, 2018 21:22:11 GMT -5
As far as regarding women as property goes, that still goes on today. Its just part of the courtship arrangement that a man sells himself to women. He does this by his charms, his background, his education, and his job. Many mothers participate in this process as well, grooming their sons, knowing their efforts will one day result in a daughter in law. In your relationship with others, it's not bad to be valued or compared to property, necessarily. Business owners, own their employees, in a sense. All good people will own their responsibilities, in another sense. It's not a random coincidence that we speak of land as being real property. To be valued as a possession of someone or something, is the basis of all real relationship.If I were to hazard a guess I would say you have been in some strange relationships. To be valued as a possession of someone or something, is the basis of slavery. [/quoet] Yes, -Lee who was it that owned you as a slave? Or do you own another person?
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Post by ellie on Oct 23, 2018 4:36:58 GMT -5
The question would be how did the men determine which of the captive women were to be killed because they were not virgins? There is currently no conclusive test to determine if a female has been sexually active. The certainly was not a test back then. The real concern is a paranormal being who would demand that a non-virgin be killed without providing a means of proof. these were not modern women there are signs and you know what i am talking about.... Do tell, curious people want to know.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 23, 2018 5:06:08 GMT -5
these were not modern women there are signs and you know what i am talking about.... Do tell, curious people want to know. Yes, I am also curious.
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Post by matisse on Oct 23, 2018 5:43:27 GMT -5
The question would be how did the men determine which of the captive women were to be killed because they were not virgins? There is currently no conclusive test to determine if a female has been sexually active. The certainly was not a test back then. The real concern is a paranormal being who would demand that a non-virgin be killed without providing a means of proof. these were not modern women there are signs and you know what i am talking about.... I wonder if riding on the backs of horses and donkeys could have the same effect on the "virginity bits" of girls and women in Bible times as it can have in modern times.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 6:19:28 GMT -5
these were not modern women there are signs and you know what i am talking about.... I wonder if riding on the backs of horses and donkeys could have the same effect on the "virginity bits" of girls and women in Bible times as it can have in modern times. not if they rode sidesaddle....or in wagons and carts...
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Post by matisse on Oct 23, 2018 7:20:29 GMT -5
I wonder if riding on the backs of horses and donkeys could have the same effect on the "virginity bits" of girls and women in Bible times as it can have in modern times. not if they rode sidesaddle....or in wagons and carts... Mine was more of a rhetorical question. Of course there would have been ways back then for a girl's or woman's hymen to be torn or stretched without ever having sexual contact. Stop trying to mansplain it otherwise. Did you know that it is also possible, depending on the shape and elasticity of the hymen, for some girls/women to be sexually active and retain an intact hymen? The point is, sometimes the hymen is torn or stretched in a virgin, and sometimes the hymen remains intact despite a woman no longer being a virgin. The hymen is not a reliable indicator of virginity.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 7:22:28 GMT -5
not if they rode sidesaddle....or in wagons and carts... Mine was more of a rhetorical question. Of course there would have been ways back then for a girl's or woman's hymen to be torn or stretched without ever having sexual contact. Stop trying to mansplain it otherwise. Did you know that it is also possible, depending on the shape and elasticity of the hymen, for some girls/women to be sexually active and retain an intact hymen? The point is, sometimes the hymen is torn or stretched in a virgin, and sometimes the hymen remains intact despite a woman no longer being a virgin. The hymen is not a reliable indicator of virginity. your really trying to explain away something by modern terms again i repeat these were not modern women..nice try though...
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