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Post by Charles Storck on Jun 11, 2007 23:22:15 GMT -5
From Nathan:
I see another discussion is taking place where people are slinging mud at anonymous posters as being something less than honorable. I do not like my name being used in connection with these statements from one who knows very well that he is guilty of these very issues. So then since I cannot change one using my name, then I feel it is only fair to tell the another side of this story again.
The rest of the story:
About 5 Years ago I noted Nathans website link on one of the 2x2 websites. I knew Nathan in his last year of the work when I was on contract in OR. I being B&R re-professed in a union meeting while in OR. I made a profession when I was about 15 years old but it really meant nothing to me. The Holy Spirit moved on me when I was outside of the fellowship. My profession was without testing but was of the Holy Spirit. I could not contain the Joy I have.
I wrote Nathan and renewed a friendship. It soon became strained in that some which I knew back in OR told me Nathan was no longer going to meetings. I also was told of conflict Nathan had which led to Nathans leaving the Work. I questioned Nathan about those issues and Nathan did not want to talk about them and became very annoyed at my asking. He has that right. As a result Nathan stopped writing and talking to me after that.
When I first re-connected with Nathan we shared many agreements as to many on this TMB. I posted my Testimony on His site with Email and received many a hate mail. More importantly was the Emails I received from friends asking me about why I put it on Nathans web site. I also had many of those who left start writing me about there experiences.
During the time Nathan and I were connected on this TMB we talked on the phone and via Emails. Nathan told me directly to use anonymous handles and multiple handles. He told me directly that in this manner we would be able to keep the exes off guard and in the cross fire. At that time I agreed to all of that
I took on Cherie and got copies of many of the documents she had from listed sources. I even sent some of the FBI documents about the F&W's obtained in FOIA to Nathan. The end result of my research verified The TTT documents in the affirmative.
How time and learning changes things. In my zealousness to prosecute those evil exes on this TMB who do not have the spirit of God; (as Nathan said to me on more then one occasion), I found too many truthful accounts of nasty things perpetrated by the F&W against fellow saints which drove them out of meetings. Most of these issues dealt with the lack of response toward doctrine and honest questions. I found so many who were just shunned and pushed out. One ask me, Have you ever asked question like these on the forum. Well no I did not.------But, then I did and was also treated like a leper.
In the course of all this I was forced to stand for what God has laid on my heart or capitulate to the many wrong doctrines of the F&W.
Recap--During those early posting times both I, Nathan and a few others attacked any exes with anonymous posts, multiple handles and nasty posts. We used multiple handles to keep them guessing. On some occasions Nathan and I talked on the phone and laughed about it. Nathan has been dishonest with himself and others.
I am and will be forever sorry for this pain I have caused some in this regard.
I choose God.
So then there it is in a nutshell.
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Post by Charles Storck on Jun 11, 2007 23:52:53 GMT -5
From Nathan: I see another discussion is taking place where people are slinging mud at anonymous posters as being something less than honorable. I do not like my name being used in connection with these statements from one who knows very well that he is guilty of these very issues. So then since I cannot change one using my name, then I feel it is only fair to tell the another side of this story again. The rest of the story: About 5 Years ago I noted Nathans website link on one of the 2x2 websites. I knew Nathan in his last year of the work when I was on contract in OR. I being B&R re-professed in a union meeting while in OR. I made a profession when I was about 15 years old but it really meant nothing to me. The Holy Spirit moved on me when I was outside of the fellowship. My profession was without testing but was of the Holy Spirit. I could not contain the Joy I have. I wrote Nathan and renewed a friendship. It soon became strained in that some which I knew back in OR told me Nathan was no longer going to meetings. I also was told of conflict Nathan had which led to Nathans leaving the Work. I questioned Nathan about those issues and Nathan did not want to talk about them and became very annoyed at my asking. He has that right. As a result Nathan stopped writing and talking to me after that. When I first re-connected with Nathan we shared many agreements as to many on this TMB. I posted my Testimony on His site with Email and received many a hate mail. More importantly was the Emails I received from friends asking me about why I put it on Nathans web site. I also had many of those who left start writing me about there experiences. During the time Nathan and I were connected on this TMB we talked on the phone and via Emails. Nathan told me directly to use anonymous handles and multiple handles. He told me directly that in this manner we would be able to keep the exes off guard and in the cross fire. At that time I agreed to all of thatI took on Cherie and got copies of many of the documents she had from listed sources. I even sent some of the FBI documents about the F&W's obtained in FOIA to Nathan. The end result of my research verified The TTT documents in the affirmative. How time and learning changes things. In my zealousness to prosecute those evil exes on this TMB who do not have the spirit of God; (as Nathan said to me on more then one occasion), I found too many truthful accounts of nasty things perpetrated by the F&W against fellow saints which drove them out of meetings. Most of these issues dealt with the lack of response toward doctrine and honest questions. I found so many who were just shunned and pushed out. One ask me, Have you ever asked question like these on the forum. Well no I did not.------But, then I did and was also treated like a leper. In the course of all this I was forced to stand for what God has laid on my heart or capitulate to the many wrong doctrines of the F&W. Recap--During those early posting times both I, Nathan and a few others attacked any exes with anonymous posts, multiple handles and nasty posts. We used multiple handles to keep them guessing. On some occasions Nathan and I talked on the phone and laughed about it. Nathan has been dishonest with himself and others. I am and will be forever sorry for this pain I have caused some in this regard. I choose God.So then there it is in a nutshell. One of the reasons I stopped writing to you and keep in touch with you because of your self-righteous attitude! You kept on harping me about going to the meetings! when I told you know I had to work on Sundays and week days meetings. You were keeping on wanting to know too much information of my own personal life. My red light came on! and I dropped you like a hot potato 4 yrs ago.
Now, you don't even attend the 2x2s meetings anymore.
I didn't agree with your attacks on John's professor in Oregon. You kept on posting his pictures and where he taught. To discourage you from doing these things I told you I am not sure it was him but you kept on posting his picture on the TMB.
You asked me some of these exes backgrounds and I told you who they are. I told you if you let them know who you are because they will cause you much headaches because you were a 2x2. Many exes tried to destroy your computer hardrives because of your testimony on my website when you posted your email on there. I told you be very careful....
Then you asked me to take your testimony off my website because you had received too many hate e-mails from the exes and they send virus to destroy your computers. I told you NOT to post your e-mail address with your testimony but didn't listen.
I registered now.... so I encourage you to do the same. Try not to go back to your old ways. I hope you were not one of those snipes-gutter poster, Charles Storck. I know you have been posting under different alias the last 4 yrs on the TMB.
That's is my side of the story.Nathan You are a LIAR. Let the readers decide.
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Post by Charles Storck on Jun 12, 2007 0:11:53 GMT -5
Yes, Charles Storck... let the readers decide who is a liar. Both of us have shared our sides of the story. Please, try to write your own name when you post. I knew you took snipes at me under different alias the last 4 yrs. so Don't post under different alias again, please. YOU ARE WRONG and Paranoid
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awaywiththefalseprophets
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Post by awaywiththefalseprophets on Jun 12, 2007 0:12:40 GMT -5
Yes, Charles Storck... let the readers decide who is a liar. Both of us have shared our sides of the story. Please, try to write your own name when you post. I knew you took snipes at me under different alias the last 4 yrs. so Don't post under different alias again, please. I vote that Nathan is the liar. From past experiences I am sure my vote is the right one. Nathan is following a false God and Charles is following the true God.
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Post by decidingreader on Jun 12, 2007 0:14:29 GMT -5
Nathan is the liar.
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ann
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Jesus did NOT say follow people .. He said follow ME!
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Post by ann on Jun 12, 2007 0:18:22 GMT -5
without a doubt Charles is telling the truth
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Post by Charles Storck on Jun 12, 2007 0:18:54 GMT -5
YOU ARE WRONG and Paranoid Let me ask you this Charles.... How many names and handles, alias have you used the last 4 yrs on the TMB? I know you hardly use your real name before. Be honest now.You can ask all you want but it is now none of your business. My RED flags are going up because you are dishonest. You already said you know so why ask?
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Post by SSS on Jun 12, 2007 0:21:20 GMT -5
Telling the Truth is the only honest one among the two - Charles.
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Post by fred on Jun 12, 2007 7:25:57 GMT -5
I say nathan is the liar. And paranoid...read that comment about exes trying to destroy computer hard drives. nathan has totally lost his grasp on reality.
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Post by fred on Jun 12, 2007 7:27:24 GMT -5
Many exes tried to destroy your computer hardrives because of your testimony on my website when you posted your email on there. Paranoia at work.
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Post by Charles Storck on Jun 12, 2007 8:16:42 GMT -5
I say nathan is the liar. And paranoid...read that comment about exes trying to destroy computer hard drives. nathan has totally lost his grasp on reality. In Nathans defense. In all fairness, while I was a foot stomping apologetics like Nathan and Bert, I did receive an email from a Brother (at that time called and ex) which did contain a Virus. It did crash my computer. At that time I believed it to be deliberate. I no longer believe that. I feel it was without the senders knowledge. This is what happens when we fail to see that departing 2x2ism is not departing from God. So as far as this point Nathan is correct in his statement. However Nathan during those times claims that one of the exes crashed his website. Nathan fed my fire. Don't know about that. It is my opinion that Nathan keeps dissing those that do not register because he is not sure if it is someone that really knows him. He is paranoid. As to Nathans actions on the TMB. You can still see bits of the same between Nathans and Bert's posts. They posture with such contempt and condescension to wards others. They have made subtle jokes of other posters. The trend of Nate continues as it did when I was posting as a zealot against any and all who spoke against the fellowship. Let the Reader Decide
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Post by bias everywhere on Jun 12, 2007 8:24:26 GMT -5
I think those who already dislike Nathan will jump on Charles' side. Feelings always seem to trump logic on the TMB.
Based on the fact that Charles is already backtracking on his original post..... well.......
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Post by Charles Storck on Jun 12, 2007 8:39:15 GMT -5
I think those who already dislike Nathan will jump on Charles' side. Feelings always seem to trump logic on the TMB. Based on the fact that Charles is already backtracking on his original post..... well....... No back track just facts. You have yours and I have mine which by the way is first person accounts. I have mentioned the same on this TMB three times already in past posts. Search and you will find ;D There are no contradictions in my posts
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Post by fred on Jun 12, 2007 8:44:04 GMT -5
I think those who already dislike Nathan will jump on Charles' side. Feelings always seem to trump logic on the TMB. Based on the fact that Charles is already backtracking on his original post..... well....... It is a stretch of the imagination on your part to lump logic and nathan together.
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Post by ronhall on Jun 12, 2007 9:20:16 GMT -5
Who cares.
Go to your rooms and sit in a chair facing the corner until you can act civil.
At the present you are acting like animals and animals don't get to go to ______________ .
Go it?
Ron
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3
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Post by 3 on Jun 12, 2007 9:38:12 GMT -5
I think you both need to do some good 'ol soul searching.
Nathan - because you rarely answer a question head on, rather try sneaking out the side door to avoid discussing pertinent issues, I treat ALL your posts like I treat Brad's. I simple don't read them.
I venture to guess the majority of lurkers/posters on this board do the same.
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Charles Storck aka SL
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Post by Charles Storck aka SL on Jun 12, 2007 9:51:01 GMT -5
Seems some like to make big issues of leaving meetings as if one is walking away from God. On the Contrary-most walk closer to God
Posted by studylearning on Jul 2, 2006, 1:35am Well now I want to make this as short as possible. After returning to my home State I found myself living with my elderly mom who professed for over 70 years.
I want to stress this issue. My mom professed for over 70 years. I B&R went on my life's walk about. I and my mom had many discussions and sharing of God in-spite of the fact I was not going to meetings. I did returned to meetings later and was professing for some time. I am not in the dark on this fellowship being 57 years of age
To continue: Our old neighbor hood was tuff now. Some really gang banger types. Even some killings a few houses away.
Well anyway after only being there for a few months, one morning after a snow fall, this large black fellow was out shoveling the walk. I was thinking to myself, Oh boy moms getting hustled by this guy. This guy did not know I was living there now and there really was not much snow.
So I inquired of this fellows intentions. He said to me--"Oh no no Mom needs help and I help when I can." I went out and helped him finish the job and we did another old couple also.
Well that set me out to know a little more about this very tuff gang guy who would turn aside to help my mom and others. He was reformed. He was broken in heart from all he had been through. He was trying to build a new life and left that gang crowd.
Over the years we got to know each other very well. He called me pops because I was there for him when his own father was not.
I used to sit on his porch late in the night talking about many things including Gods Grace through Jesus. Addition-We also went a few times over to visit a lad who was no longer professing from and elders family. The other 2x2's shunned him. My friend knew him from his work before he got sick
Many others (some very tuff gang types and other friends from the block) would come and we would have very good discussions. I became the block home boy "pops" to many. Well my friend was very keen on the spiritual things but still not letting go. He started to get very sick. Genetic heart failure. He lost His mom and then his younger sister at a young age of 35. After that he was totally chastened and brought down to humbleness.
He would call me when he was down and I would visit sometime as late as 2AM. We started to read his bible together as I was trying to give him hope to do all that was possible for his health.
I can say at that time in his life he was in fact one of those who Jesus taught in the Blessing on the Mount. His health rapidly went down hill. He left about Christmas time to visit one of his other sisters down south. He called after he came home and told me his Liver was failing. I never had a chance to see my friend again. No one knew how to get in touch with me.
When I found out about his death it was almost two months late. I called his place and stopped by but never an answer. I checked with the hospitals but no, he was not there. I finally collected myself and checked with one of the gang guys and found out my friend passed on. I found out his fathers address from this guy. I stopped by to pay my respects.
His father told me he was glad that I came. He mentioned that his son spoke kindly of me. He mentioned that I helped him to gain some faith and hope which led to a reconcile between them.
He told me that his son was reading the bible much, going to Church with a very new heart and Spirit. I was happy that this very young friend of mine found peace. I feel that yes He was with Holy Spirit when he passed on.
Do you understand what I am saying here. I give witness that God in his love touched a young man whose life was coming to an end after many sins. The Holy Spirit had his hand when he crossed over.
I shared this in a shorter version in our Union Meeting and to state that I was happy He found salvation before he passed.
The workers visited me in short time. The rebuke was clear.
My Testimony was not Edifying. "Surely I can't believe that one could have salvation in another Church."
I spoke on these issue before and others had complained. Probably true. I have said in testimony that we (The F&W) have no claim on the Gifts of God. I have also shared with others who ask of me what I thought about the exclusiveness of the F&W. I told them the same as I tell others. It is the Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost who sets our song. Nothing else can destroy that if one is regenerated. We must not put ourselves in higher esteem than others for it is all according to Gods will.
Well my rebuke included
I was unwilling because I did not see it their way. I was not in the right spirit because I did not agree with them to be silent on these matters To speak these things is not edifying. Well you know They said, "It is there responsibility to keep things right for their Church." Well that last is very true.
Addition--I was asked what the Church is. I told them and in doing so mentioned Jesus God incarnate and they said they do not teach that. I asked Who is Emmanuel? There was no answer. So let me clarify why I stopped going to meetings.
1. To commit blasphemy is: (As taken out of my Cambridge KJV Bible)
Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost' is a sin for which there is not forgiveness. The context shows that this sin consists in willfully regarding as evil and the work of the devil something which is plainly good and the work of the Spirit of God. A person who does this is in a state of will(.AI rebellion against the Divine Spirit, the only Power capable of reforming and sanctifying them. That person's forgiveness is therefore a moral impossibility.
I could not willfully deny that which I have seen. To do that could be my eternal death. It is better to error on the side of acceptance rather than to error in rejection thereby damning yourself
2. Incarnation is also found in my KJV bible Dictionary. It is found in the section under "GOD". It says:
The fuller knowledge of God which has come to us through the Incarnation and the gift of the Spirit has enabled the Christian Church to see that there is within the Godhead a distinction of "Person". The paragraphs after that speak and explain the Trinity
What does Matthew teach:
So then if they (The workers) do not teach the Incarnation, What do they teach? They would not answer this question.
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Matthew 1 23: Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
I believe these verses are very telling. Johns Gospel also speaks of this:
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The fact is that God came for us in the flesh. There would be no such thing as INCARNATION if this were not true. Why do not the worker teach this?
Lets add some more; Isaiah 45
21: Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22: Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23: I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Very compelling if you study a little deeper.
The fellowship is their teaching want people to deny the HOLY SPIRIT and the Fullness of who Jesus is. The WI issue is nothing compared to these issues. Some say it is not that way in their area. Well until there is consensus across the board in the fellowship then there will be division. It must be clear as to the beliefs in these two areas. Either you believe them or the Gods word according to the Bible.
I stand for God and my Lord Jesus.
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Post by Mary Parry on Jun 12, 2007 10:15:23 GMT -5
This is my real name, so don't say I am anonymous. I will register another time. Right now this is my first time posting. I have read these boards for years. As a computer expert, I must answer this post.
No. 1 - NO one can wipe out your hard drive. NO ONE. A virus can damage your computer, but it can be fixed. WIPING out your hard drive is not repairable. A virus will not wipe it out.
No. 2 - No one can send you porn, except the site it comes from. Period.
No. 3 - No one can crash a website, or a chatroom. Only if the password is given to them.
Any more questions?
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Post by truth is on Jun 12, 2007 10:28:02 GMT -5
nathan is a liar through and through. He whines and complains about how he gets treated here....heck, if he were an honest man than this conversation wouldn't be taking place, NOW WOULD IT?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2007 10:34:33 GMT -5
nathan is a liar through and through. He whines and complains about how he gets treated here....heck, if he were an honest man than this conversation wouldn't be taking place, NOW WOULD IT? Let's face it. Nathan gets plenty of personal attacks here. He has every right and reason to complain. From what I see, his number of complaints don't even come close to the number of personal attacks he receives. Some exes complain that professing people don't participate in these forums and then when they do, they get dumped on with personal attacks. I'm surprised that nathan and bert put up with some of the stuff they get.
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Post by Charles Storck on Jun 12, 2007 10:43:18 GMT -5
This is my real name, so don't say I am anonymous. I will register another time. Right now this is my first time posting. I have read these boards for years. As a computer expert, I must answer this post. No. 1 - NO one can wipe out your hard drive. NO ONE. A virus can damage your computer, but it can be fixed. WIPING out your hard drive is not repairable. A virus will not wipe it out. No. 2 - No one can send you porn, except the site it comes from. Period. No. 3 - No one can crash a website, or a chatroom. Only if the password is given to them. Any more questions? Wrong. I received Emails which had hidden links to Pron sites as a result of my posting my Testimony on Nathans site. I had a Top Secrete Security Clearance at the time. I had this particular email traced. I found out who it was and had them notified that if it continued they would be prosecuted. I know who it was. They never emailed me since they received notice. Beyond the emails of disruption as a result of my Testimony on Nate's site, there were those of eye opening issues. In past posts I stated that before my Testimony was put on Nathans site, Nathan wanted me to put a statement in it that had to do with discrediting the VOT. I added it but was not comfortable with this. Nathans agenda was not as I perceived. I agreed to this addition because I was also a zealot. As stated in past posts I had to remove the Testimony from Nate's site as a result of all the issues noted.
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Post by From What I see on Jun 12, 2007 10:53:03 GMT -5
I think you both need to do some good 'ol soul searching. Nathan - because you rarely answer a question head on, rather try sneaking out the side door to avoid discussing pertinent issues, I treat ALL your posts like I treat Brad's. I simple don't read them. I venture to guess the majority of lurkers/posters on this board do the same. From what I am reading here I think Charles is doing just that. Good 'ol soul Searching. That is why I believe he is telling all and bearing his Soul to us. Based on what I am reading I find it to be very acceptable and probably the truth. I especially liked his description of why he left meetings. Thanks charles
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Post by smilingex on Jun 12, 2007 11:02:56 GMT -5
By the way Nathan, the exes are the good people. They would never hurt you or anyone else. It is the bitter 2x2s that are so nasty. Stop blaming the exes. They are the ones closeth to God and willing to lead you and others there, also.
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Post by Oh Yea on Jun 12, 2007 11:05:34 GMT -5
This is my real name, so don't say I am anonymous. I will register another time. Right now this is my first time posting. I have read these boards for years. As a computer expert, I must answer this post. No. 1 - NO one can wipe out your hard drive. NO ONE. A virus can damage your computer, but it can be fixed. WIPING out your hard drive is not repairable. A virus will not wipe it out. No. 2 - No one can send you porn, except the site it comes from. Period. No. 3 - No one can crash a website, or a chatroom. Only if the password is given to them. Any more questions? There are some Viruses which rewrite the low level boot sector so that your computer reboots over and over again. It also causes a read write to one or more sections of the hard drive. This may damage the hard drive. These are very hard viruses to get rid of. You need a low level format program to do it. These viruses are rare now because of the newer technologies and firewalls but they do exist.
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Post by Pokie on Jun 12, 2007 11:08:48 GMT -5
By the way Nathan, the exes are the good people. They would never hurt you or anyone else. It is the bitter 2x2s that are so nasty. Stop blaming the exes. They are the ones closeth to God and willing to lead you and others there, also. There you have it. The subtle method of Jab at the exes. Must be a good loving 2x2.
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Post by to nates defender on Jun 12, 2007 11:17:47 GMT -5
nathan is a liar through and through. He whines and complains about how he gets treated here....heck, if he were an honest man than this conversation wouldn't be taking place, NOW WOULD IT? Let's face it. Nathan gets plenty of personal attacks here. He has every right and reason to complain. From what I see, his number of complaints don't even come close to the number of personal attacks he receives. Some exes complain that professing people don't participate in these forums and then when they do, they get dumped on with personal attacks. I'm surprised that nathan and bert put up with some of the stuff they get. don't know how long you've been around here, but some of us old timers have been here long enough to see the lies, twists, falsehoods, and deceptions that nathan has been caught with. Stick around, you'll see it too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2007 12:21:19 GMT -5
Let's face it. Nathan gets plenty of personal attacks here. He has every right and reason to complain. From what I see, his number of complaints don't even come close to the number of personal attacks he receives. Some exes complain that professing people don't participate in these forums and then when they do, they get dumped on with personal attacks. I'm surprised that nathan and bert put up with some of the stuff they get. don't know how long you've been around here, but some of us old timers have been here long enough to see the lies, twists, falsehoods, and deceptions that nathan has been caught with. Stick around, you'll see it too. Read my post again. I'm not defending nathan or anyone else. I'm pointing out the frequent personal attacks on this board and that nathan receives more than anyone else. There is no excuse for personal attacks amongst mature adults, even on these anonymous boards. Attack the ideas and present something better and leave it there, that's what grownups are supposed to do.
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Post by IRONMAN on Jun 12, 2007 13:15:54 GMT -5
You are all paranoid.
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