|
Post by rational on Jul 1, 2018 13:56:06 GMT -5
Then I suggest you never have an abortion. well, I rarely hear a person say they wished their parents had aborted them. Indeed, someone who does seriously voice this is viewed with concern. It fails the golden rule miserably. That being said, it's been around so long it's even forbidden in the Hippocratic Oath (original). So I'm under no delusion it won't continue. You would benefit from working with children/adolescents who were not wanted by their parents. Perhaps one reason why you do not hear people say they wish they had been aborted is because they never reach a developmental stage where they can think or express their wants and needs. A 30 year old individual whose IEP for the year is that the patient will demonstrate adequate tongue-jaw-lip movements during eating and will not aspirate 90% of the time is not likely to voice an opinion regarding the wishes. I have never met anyone who is pro-abortion.
|
|
|
Post by friend on Jul 1, 2018 14:49:26 GMT -5
well, I rarely hear a person say they wished their parents had aborted them. Indeed, someone who does seriously voice this is viewed with concern. It fails the golden rule miserably. That being said, it's been around so long it's even forbidden in the Hippocratic Oath (original). So I'm under no delusion it won't continue. You would benefit from working with children/adolescents who were not wanted by their parents. Perhaps one reason why you do not hear people say they wish they had been aborted is because they never reach a developmental stage where they can think or express their wants and needs. A 30 year old individual whose IEP for the year is that the patient will demonstrate adequate tongue-jaw-lip movements during eating and will not aspirate 90% of the time is not likely to voice an opinion regarding the wishes. I have never met anyone who is pro-abortion. Unloved is not unwanted (tax deduction possibility? ) not sure their is a ethical solution, except voluntary adoptioning ...of course social services could give some advice on that
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jul 1, 2018 15:02:18 GMT -5
Killing children and infants is inexcusable. No matter the changing times, this, if nothing else, should be true. And before you ask, I am very much against abortion as well. Then I suggest you never have an abortion. Right!
Thanks, rational!
The topic we are discussing is about living children of all ages, -not abortion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 18:28:09 GMT -5
well, I rarely hear a person say they wished their parents had aborted them. Indeed, someone who does seriously voice this is viewed with concern. It fails the golden rule miserably. That being said, it's been around so long it's even forbidden in the Hippocratic Oath (original). So I'm under no delusion it won't continue. You would benefit from working with children/adolescents who were not wanted by their parents. Perhaps one reason why you do not hear people say they wish they had been aborted is because they never reach a developmental stage where they can think or express their wants and needs. A 30 year old individual whose IEP for the year is that the patient will demonstrate adequate tongue-jaw-lip movements during eating and will not aspirate 90% of the time is not likely to voice an opinion regarding the wishes. I have never met anyone who is pro-abortion. I do appreciate that perspective (insomuch as I'm able), as well as the dilemma that a victim of rape and/or incest faces. I believe there are a subset of situations in which it ought to be an option. I'm one of those folks who thinks the government (taxpayer - me and us) needs to provide free contraception though, for which I can rarely find conservative support.
|
|
|
Post by friend on Jul 1, 2018 19:06:33 GMT -5
Then I suggest you never have an abortion. Right!
Thanks, rational!
The topic we are discussing is about living children of all ages, -not abortion.and the question is :, when does the “hoping for life” become a “right to live” ? when do I have the right to choose for others? 🤷♂️
|
|
|
Post by friend on Jul 1, 2018 19:09:08 GMT -5
to demand that we all agree with our opinion, is futile,
so does morality win, or lose? 🤷♂️
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jul 1, 2018 19:38:37 GMT -5
What a load of BS @wally ! Tell that to the children that have been sexually abused by so called preachers/pastors ! Or to the women who is abused by her husband ! And you have the hide to say we only have morals because of Christianity ! so your advice is to abandon rules and regulations (written moral code) because there are some hypocrites ? Sorry, It just won’t work 👎 Friend which "written moral code" are you referring to ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 20:01:47 GMT -5
As a side, I only mentioned it because that usually is the next lateral move in these sorts of conversations
|
|
|
Post by friend on Jul 1, 2018 20:22:08 GMT -5
so your advice is to abandon rules and regulations (written moral code) because there are some hypocrites ? Sorry, It just won’t work 👎 Friend which "written moral code" are you referring to ? do we have one that doesn’t need tweaking to make it more moral? Thanks
|
|
|
Post by friend on Jul 1, 2018 21:07:09 GMT -5
As a side, I only mentioned it because that usually is the next lateral move in these sorts of conversations and I’m glad you shared your insights into the dilemma. for those interested in doing justly , loving mercy, and walking humbly with Creator, we need to show that we keep a just balance in our thoughts . Pure justice may look like: an eye for an eye, an tooth for a tooth, But mercy tempers judgement , and offers the repentant, a second opportunity, IMO. So, in full circle, it revolves around , : mercy is given, given to those that give mercy, So ultimately mercy is perfect justice, (an eye for an eye) 🤷♂️ Just a thought
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jul 1, 2018 21:33:17 GMT -5
Right!
Thanks, rational!
The topic we are discussing is about living children of all ages, -not abortion. and the question is :, when does the “hoping for life” become a “right to live” ? when do I have the right to choose for others? 🤷♂️ Right!
When do (you) have the right to choose for women?
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jul 1, 2018 23:22:44 GMT -5
Friend which "written moral code" are you referring to ? do we have one that doesn’t need tweaking to make it more moral? Thanks Friend maybe you don't understand a question ....which "written moral code" are you referring to ?
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jul 1, 2018 23:24:03 GMT -5
God is just and has a reason for everything he does....what that reason is may be unknown to his children... What a load of BS @wally ! Tell that to the children that have been sexually abused by so called preachers/pastors ! Or to the women who is abused by her husband ! And you have the hide to say we only have morals because of Christianity !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 23:59:17 GMT -5
What a load of BS @wally ! Tell that to the children that have been sexually abused by so called preachers/pastors ! Or to the women who is abused by her husband ! And you have the hide to say we only have morals because of Christianity ! what you want me to repeat what i said? your credibility is dropping everytime i have to explain the explanation....
|
|
|
Post by friend on Jul 2, 2018 1:00:05 GMT -5
do we have one that doesn’t need tweaking to make it more moral? Thanks Friend maybe you don't understand a question ....which "written moral code" are you referring to ? Ok, I will repeat it for you! 🙂
|
|
|
Post by friend on Jul 2, 2018 1:07:27 GMT -5
For Rose T,
(The moral code from Micah 6:8:)
doing justly , loving mercy, and walking humbly with Creator,
we need to show
that we keep a just balance in our thoughts .
Pure justice may look like: an eye for an eye, an tooth for a tooth, But mercy tempers judgement , and offers the repentant, a second opportunity, IMO. So, in full circle, it revolves around , : mercy is given, given to those that give mercy, So ultimately mercy is perfect justice, (an eye for an eye)
🤷♂️ Just a thought[/quote][
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jul 2, 2018 2:09:18 GMT -5
For Rose T, (The moral code from Micah 6:8:) doing justly , loving mercy, and walking humbly with Creator, we need to show that we keep a just balance in our thoughts . Pure justice may look like: an eye for an eye, an tooth for a tooth, But mercy tempers judgement , and offers the repentant, a second opportunity, IMO. So, in full circle, it revolves around , : mercy is given, given to those that give mercy, So ultimately mercy is perfect justice, (an eye for an eye) 🤷♂️ Just a thought [ [/quote]Thank you friend.... so the written "moral code" you use is the bible .... the next question would be what bible or what translation ? Which then goes back to my original comment we don't need the bible or religion to have morals, which has been proven by this thread !
|
|
|
Post by friend on Jul 2, 2018 3:15:10 GMT -5
For Rose T, (The moral code from Micah 6:8:) doing justly , loving mercy, and walking humbly with Creator, we need to show that we keep a just balance in our thoughts . Pure justice may look like: an eye for an eye, an tooth for a tooth, But mercy tempers judgement , and offers the repentant, a second opportunity, IMO. So, in full circle, it revolves around , : mercy is given, given to those that give mercy, So ultimately mercy is perfect justice, (an eye for an eye) 🤷♂️ Just a thought [ Thank you friend.... so the written "moral code" you use is the bible .... the next question would be which bible or which translation ? Which then goes back to my original comment we don't need the bible or religion to have morals, which has been proven by this thread ! [/quote][ Ultimately, our personal “written moral code” , would be interpreted (not by “a written essay” ) but by the principles and Beings that we honor by the things we do, the actions we esteem, and thoughts that we think . We are made in the image of our Creator to do justly, even if we can’t understand what those written words were meant to convey. Here is another moral code: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Those words do have meaning, but the actions that those words produce , give meaning to the words. At least for me, imo. Thanks
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jul 2, 2018 11:27:21 GMT -5
You would benefit from working with children/adolescents who were not wanted by their parents. Perhaps one reason why you do not hear people say they wish they had been aborted is because they never reach a developmental stage where they can think or express their wants and needs. A 30 year old individual whose IEP for the year is that the patient will demonstrate adequate tongue-jaw-lip movements during eating and will not aspirate 90% of the time is not likely to voice an opinion regarding the wishes. I have never met anyone who is pro-abortion. I do appreciate that perspective (insomuch as I'm able), as well as the dilemma that a victim of rape and/or incest faces. I believe there are a subset of situations in which it ought to be an option. I'm one of those folks who thinks the government (taxpayer - me and us) needs to provide free contraception though, for which I can rarely find conservative support. A start would be just provide comprehensive sex education Anything but Just say "NO!". That works so well with young adults. In my old age it is the rich memories of those halcyon days of youth that brings a smile to my lips. I guess I should thank Aeolus for those seven calm days of each year!
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 2, 2018 13:09:00 GMT -5
Right!
Thanks, rational!
The topic we are discussing is about living children of all ages, -not abortion. and the question is :, when does the “hoping for life” become a “right to live” ? when do I have the right to choose for others? 🤷♂️ Isn't that what people are doing when they say the woman should have no say over what happens to her body? I am adopted. I would have been better off as an abortion. I am pro choice and pro life.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 15:16:00 GMT -5
and the question is :, when does the “hoping for life” become a “right to live” ? when do I have the right to choose for others? 🤷♂️ Isn't that what people are doing when they say the woman should have no say over what happens to her body? I am adopted. I would have been better off as an abortion. I am pro choice and pro life. both pro-choice and pro-life? i can only imagine the conversation your having with yourself!
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jul 2, 2018 17:29:07 GMT -5
Isn't that what people are doing when they say the woman should have no say over what happens to her body? I am adopted. I would have been better off as an abortion. I am pro choice and pro life. both pro-choice and pro-life? i can only imagine the conversation your having with yourself! Not to speak for snow but perhaps what she means is that she is pro choice when it comes to a mother's right to determine what she will and will not allow when it comes to her body but that she is pro life when it comes to providing children with the best possible situation for a happy and productive life that is as free from abuse, pain, and wants as possible. Perhaps a different stance from those who are against abortion but are not willing to address the problems created by an unwanted pregnancy. Consider Down Syndrome - the average lifetime cost is an estimated $451,000. An estimated $1.9 billion for victims born annually. And this doesn't put a cost on the grief suffered by the family and the diminished quality of life for the victim. So which is the better choice for all concerned - high cost to society to support the victim in addition to the diminished quality of life in general for all involved or an early term abortion when the inevitable outcome is learned? It is a stretch but the bible does claim it is expedient that one man should die for the people. (Hey, I said it was a stretch.)
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 3, 2018 11:53:35 GMT -5
Isn't that what people are doing when they say the woman should have no say over what happens to her body? I am adopted. I would have been better off as an abortion. I am pro choice and pro life. both pro-choice and pro-life? i can only imagine the conversation your having with yourself! It is possible. I am pro life because I couldn't do it myself. But I am also pro choice because I recognize that there are times and circumstances where it should be the woman's choice. Life is not black and white and yes, sometimes there are things that we have to deal with that aren't ideal.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 3, 2018 12:05:37 GMT -5
both pro-choice and pro-life? i can only imagine the conversation your having with yourself! Not to speak for snow but perhaps what she means is that she is pro choice when it comes to a mother's right to determine what she will and will not allow when it comes to her body but that she is pro life when it comes to providing children with the best possible situation for a happy and productive life that is as free from abuse, pain, and wants as possible. Perhaps a different stance from those who are against abortion but are not willing to address the problems created by an unwanted pregnancy. Consider Down Syndrome - the average lifetime cost is an estimated $451,000. An estimated $1.9 billion for victims born annually. And this doesn't put a cost on the grief suffered by the family and the diminished quality of life for the victim. So which is the better choice for all concerned - high cost to society to support the victim in addition to the diminished quality of life in general for all involved or an early term abortion when the inevitable outcome is learned? It is a stretch but the bible does claim it is expedient that one man should die for the people. (Hey, I said it was a stretch.)I pretty much agree with most of this. I think that it's a woman's choice, or should be. I also think there is worse things than not being born. It doesn't make sense to me that we bring a child into the world, merely because it exists as a fertilized egg, when it's life is going to be hell, either by abuse, poverty or disease etc. I don't see a lot of people stepping in and trying to save this same fetus from the hell life can be once they've become a being that is able to function and live outside the body of a woman. As far as it being a high cost financially, I really don't think that matters as much but I do understand what you're saying there too.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jul 3, 2018 18:33:12 GMT -5
I pretty much agree with most of this. I think that it's a woman's choice, or should be. I also think there is worse things than not being born. It doesn't make sense to me that we bring a child into the world, merely because it exists as a fertilized egg, when it's life is going to be hell, either by abuse, poverty or disease etc. I don't see a lot of people stepping in and trying to save this same fetus from the hell life can be once they've become a being that is able to function and live outside the body of a woman. As far as it being a high cost financially, I really don't think that matters as much but I do understand what you're saying there too. I believe the cost of human life is an issue that people just don't like to think about. There are tests that can provent deaths but the cost of the tests is not worth the lives they save. If a family can't afford to support their child suffering from some birth defect should society in general have to pay for their belief that every fertilized egg should be carried to term?
|
|
|
Post by friend on Jul 4, 2018 7:36:25 GMT -5
so , it appears that some people believe that there is an advantage to being ignorant of our advantages. Hmmmm, don’t disect that, it ain’t very pretty. 🤦🏻♂️
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 4, 2018 11:44:50 GMT -5
I pretty much agree with most of this. I think that it's a woman's choice, or should be. I also think there is worse things than not being born. It doesn't make sense to me that we bring a child into the world, merely because it exists as a fertilized egg, when it's life is going to be hell, either by abuse, poverty or disease etc. I don't see a lot of people stepping in and trying to save this same fetus from the hell life can be once they've become a being that is able to function and live outside the body of a woman. As far as it being a high cost financially, I really don't think that matters as much but I do understand what you're saying there too. I believe the cost of human life is an issue that people just don't like to think about. There are tests that can provent deaths but the cost of the tests is not worth the lives they save. If a family can't afford to support their child suffering from some birth defect should society in general have to pay for their belief that every fertilized egg should be carried to term? I don't know. I don't think so much about the cost of these things as the suffering involved. The child suffers if they have debilitating disease. Watching the world being normal and knowing you never can be, can't be much fun either. Is it worth living then, I just don't know the answer to that. I often feel like I shouldn't be here anymore, that I don't have much to contribute anymore, so why stick around and become a burden on others and the system if it comes to that.
|
|
Dr Ford speech writer?
Guest
|
Post by Dr Ford speech writer? on Sept 28, 2018 1:15:18 GMT -5
Umm, will the reel Dr Ford please lay it down from her MEMory (or stone-cold heart ??). that has eroded so precariously with her advanced age? How old is she anyways? Well, who ever wrote her accusatory memos that she Carefully READ should have to look for a new job, eh....
IMO, a lousy performance by Dr Ford, nothing from her Memory just a prewritten story/myth , but isn’t that what we come to expect these days? A sad day for honesty , and a sad day for many that we’re looking for truth....
|
|