janj
Senior Member
Posts: 470
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Post by janj on Jun 23, 2018 2:21:36 GMT -5
Maybe you should have written ' how disempowered I was because of the way my parents raised me'I was raised in the 2x2 church too but I have always felt that had an amazing upbringing. Sure we didn't have a TV but that if anything was an advantage. We read books, played games and had great lengthy debates and discussions around the table. Our 'worldly' friends loved to come to our house because we did things as a family. We were allowed to play sport (as long as it didn't clash with meetings)stay over with friends, and we had great holidays and outtings with other church families. We had 2 parents that were together that loved each other and in turn loved us (not something sll our school friends had). Our school teacher once made the comment that the children from our church were great at mixing with all ages and very well adjusted. We were not unique as other 2x2 families in our area raised their children in a similar way. Some of our family are still part of the 2x2 and some aren't but we have had many discussions on our childhood and we all agree it was the best way to be brought up -we wouldn't have changed a thing. Disadvantaged...NO! Janj, -where and when did this wonderful upbringing of yours take place?
Being "disempowered" was NOT because of the way our parents raised us, -it was because of the restrictions put on both them and us by being in the religion we were in!
If you are still "professing" and trying to make excuses and make to it sound like a lark; -forget it! We know our own experiences and you can't change that.
Yes I am fully aware that some people had a bad experience growing up in the 2x2 and Im not trying to chsnge that but I am trying to point out to you that not everybody's experience was like yours. If it was nothing to do with our parents then why were our experiences so different when our parents belong to the same church. My parents went about things in a very balanced and sensible fashion and the result was positive. If you don't want to accept and have no interest in anyone else's story that well then that's fine. As for making excuses -excuses for what?! I have nothing to make excuses for -I wasn't responsible for your experience!
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 23, 2018 2:45:20 GMT -5
Janj if you were a young person in New Zealand in the 70-80s , the experience you speak of was not the status quo. I mixed with many people in that time and I know. If that was not your experience, I believe it was an exception to the rule ( and I might add...great you had that kind of upbringing). I agree @seventy, growing up in Australia in the 70-80's a lot of people experienced the same things that you have mentioned. What were your parents views on girls having their hair trimmed/cut janj ? What about playing sports, school formals, going to the movies, sleeveless dresses ? If it was only what our parents thought where did they get the ideas from ?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 23, 2018 2:54:05 GMT -5
Janj, -where and when did this wonderful upbringing of yours take place?
Being "disempowered" was NOT because of the way our parents raised us, -it was because of the restrictions put on both them and us by being in the religion we were in!
If you are still "professing" and trying to make excuses and make to it sound like a lark; -forget it! We know our own experiences and you can't change that.
Yes I am fully aware that some people had a bad experience growing up in the 2x2 and Im not trying to chsnge that but I am trying to point out to you that not everybody's experience was like yours. If it was nothing to do with our parents then why were our experiences so different when our parents belong to the same church. My parents went about things in a very balanced and sensible fashion and the result was positive. If you don't want to accept and have no interest in anyone else's story that well then that's fine. As for making excuses - excuses for what?! I have nothing to make excuses for -I wasn't responsible for your experience! Excuses for the 2x2's if you are still professing.
Are you?
Also you still haven't told us where you were raised nor the time in which you grew up.
Why?
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janj
Senior Member
Posts: 470
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Post by janj on Jun 23, 2018 3:02:20 GMT -5
Janj if you were a young person in New Zealand in the 70-80s , the experience you speak of was not the status quo. I mixed with many people in that time and I know. If that was not your experience, I believe it was an exception to the rule ( and I might add...great you had that kind of upbringing). I agree @seventy , growing up in Australia in the 70-80's a lot of people experienced the same things that you have mentioned. What were your parents views on girls having their hair trimmed/cut janj ? What about playing sports, school formals, going to the movies, sleeveless dresses ? If it was only what our parents thought where did they get the ideas from ? Thank you Olea. Obviously the people we mixed with also had unique experiences because they weren't all brought up as you have explained -although some definitely were. OK Roselyn my parents allowed us to trim our hair , as I said play sport as long as it didn't interfere with meetings, we were allowed to go to some school formals (I can't remember why/what on those) movies - with the school was fine and if they thought the movie was 'educational' and 'suitable' was OK. Sleeveless dresses -fine - my mother wore them-but around home, to the beach not to the meeting where we had to be dresses more formally. re I think that's covered your list. I wonder where they got their ideas from?
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 23, 2018 3:22:10 GMT -5
I agree @seventy , growing up in Australia in the 70-80's a lot of people experienced the same things that you have mentioned. What were your parents views on girls having their hair trimmed/cut janj ? What about playing sports, school formals, going to the movies, sleeveless dresses ? If it was only what our parents thought where did they get the ideas from ? Thank you Olea. Obviously the people we mixed with also had unique experiences because they weren't all brought up as you have explained -although some definitely were. OK Roselyn my parents allowed us to trim our hair , as I said play sport as long as it didn't interfere with meetings, we were allowed to go to some school formals (I can't remember why/what on those) movies - with the school was fine and if they thought the movie was 'educational' and 'suitable' was OK. Sleeveless dresses -fine - my mother wore them-but around home, to the beach not to the meeting where we had to be dresses more formally. re I think that's covered your list. I wonder where they got their ideas from? janj can I ask which country you were raised in ? I was not even allowed to have my hair trimmed let alone cut ! A friends mother would burn the ends of her hair to stop the split ends rather than trim it. We were NOT allowed to go to the movies, school formals and no sports. When some of the boys knew a certain worker was to visit they would get their mother to cut their hair because they knew what type of haircut they would get from the worker !
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janj
Senior Member
Posts: 470
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Post by janj on Jun 23, 2018 3:43:32 GMT -5
Thank you Olea. Obviously the people we mixed with also had unique experiences because they weren't all brought up as you have explained -although some definitely were. OK Roselyn my parents allowed us to trim our hair , as I said play sport as long as it didn't interfere with meetings, we were allowed to go to some school formals (I can't remember why/what on those) movies - with the school was fine and if they thought the movie was 'educational' and 'suitable' was OK. Sleeveless dresses -fine - my mother wore them-but around home, to the beach not to the meeting where we had to be dresses more formally. re I think that's covered your list. I wonder where they got their ideas from? janj can I ask which country you were raised in ? I was not even allowed to have my hair trimmed let alone cut ! A friends mother would burn the ends of her hair to stop the split ends rather than trim it. We were NOT allowed to go to the movies, school formals and no sports. When some of the boys knew a certain worker was to visit they would get their mother to cut their hair because they knew what type of haircut they would get from the worker ! Yes I was raised in NZ. I think it's really important on this forum for all of us to remember that our experience is not necessarily everybody else's. Like lots of things I guess at thw time I didn't appreciate my parents and their outlook on life but realise now how fortunate we were.
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Post by Friend on Jun 23, 2018 3:53:55 GMT -5
On the other hand, parents that weren’t in fellowship did many unusual (imo) customs. Ie: underage drinking parties, doing unlawful drugs with their children, using foul language.
I would think of the advantages I had over some of my disadvantaged friends , imo. 😢
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Post by Friend on Jun 23, 2018 3:59:54 GMT -5
And the extreme pressure some parents put on their Children to outdo others in sport ( toxic sportsmanship)
The grass might look greener “on the other side of the fence “. But there is often safety, where there is protection ,
Need to look at the total picture, imo
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Post by howitis on Jun 23, 2018 4:18:39 GMT -5
Thanks Friend, perhaps we also could look at the fact that many that post on here are "ex's", therefore it would be difficult for them to be too positive about the group as a whole. Also as there are very few posters that are "professing", they obviously aren't here speaking of their experience as children.
One thing that was noted by my parents was the amount of things people ran to the workers about, asking this and that, often which had nothing to do with spiritual living....it's possible that from that questioning came unreasonable and not spirit based guidance.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 23, 2018 4:25:19 GMT -5
janj can I ask which country you were raised in ? I was not even allowed to have my hair trimmed let alone cut ! A friends mother would burn the ends of her hair to stop the split ends rather than trim it. We were NOT allowed to go to the movies, school formals and no sports. When some of the boys knew a certain worker was to visit they would get their mother to cut their hair because they knew what type of haircut they would get from the worker ! Yes I was raised in NZ. I think it's really important on this forum for all of us to remember that our experience is not necessarily everybody else's. Like lots of things I guess at thw time I didn't appreciate my parents and their outlook on life but realise now how fortunate we were. The thing is that there are a lot of people who seem to have had the same experience janj. I know a lot of people all over Australia who are both still in meetings and out and I know for a fact that a lot were raised the same as me. Yes I am talking about in the 70-80's and I am aware of how things have changed and "rules" that we had are not "rules" anymore. But that does not change how we were raised and the effects it has had on out lives both positive and negative. Also I think the amount of generations that have been part of the "truth" has an impact down the line on our parents and the pressure put on them.
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Post by friend on Jun 23, 2018 4:31:09 GMT -5
Some people tend to be short sighted and others focused on the things that require a farther sighted view,
We are all wired different, and we interpret things from Our personal experiences.
100 years from now, things will look at lot different, IMO.
🤭
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Post by snow on Jun 23, 2018 12:08:27 GMT -5
Well janj , I am glad you had a wonderful upbringing, but some of us were not so lucky ! We we taught that other churches were wrong and worldly ...... my mother was raised as a SDA and we were NEVER allowed to attend the SDA church, I was not even allowed to be a flowergirl at my Aunties wedding because she got married in the SDA church ! Yes it's a bit sad how you were raised, but I still think it had more to do with your parents than the truth....both the link you posted and janj have said much the same thing. We often went to the SDA church for things they had there some of them were quite good at cooking, craft and bible history , I get on quite well with many from that church Yes a lot of it was how parents interpreted things. But the bible and the church does support what some parents disciplined their children like. So they are not completely innocent in this. They did nothing to protect the children when I was growing up in the Truth. Kids could get quite a beating at meetings and no one stepped in. Part of that were the times, but not all of it. My upbringing was very strict, no sports, no worldly friends etc. When I quit professing at 12 it was a very hard place to be. The friends didn't want their kids hanging with me too much, scared I'd be a bad influence, and my parents wouldn't allow me to have friends that were not in the Truth. So until I finally wore them down enough to let me have a couple of worldly girlfriends, I was quite lonely and isolated. I loved sports and gym. I would have loved to see where I could have gone if I'd been raised in a home that did allow the kids to do sports. There are things I'm grateful for being raised in the group and others that I really wish I'd didn't have to live through.
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Post by snow on Jun 23, 2018 12:16:50 GMT -5
Janj, -where and when did this wonderful upbringing of yours take place?
Being "disempowered" was NOT because of the way our parents raised us, -it was because of the restrictions put on both them and us by being in the religion we were in!
If you are still "professing" and trying to make excuses and make to it sound like a lark; -forget it! We know our own experiences and you can't change that.
Yes I am fully aware that some people had a bad experience growing up in the 2x2 and Im not trying to chsnge that but I am trying to point out to you that not everybody's experience was like yours. If it was nothing to do with our parents then why were our experiences so different when our parents belong to the same church. My parents went about things in a very balanced and sensible fashion and the result was positive. If you don't want to accept and have no interest in anyone else's story that well then that's fine. As for making excuses -excuses for what?! I have nothing to make excuses for -I wasn't responsible for your experience! Maybe I can explain it like this. Some of the friends do what the workers ask more readily than others. My dad was a very jealous devout worker worshiper. He was an elder and was very aware of his status and as his child I needed to be an example to the rest of the kids in the Truth. What's happening right now with the letter that went out from the workers to the friends saying that they should cancel their social media accounts immediately and stay off of forums like this is a good example. Some are going to do that. And, make their kids do that. Some like those who are still posting on here today, are going to ignore it and make decisions based on their own good judgement. Parents that allowed their kids to participate in the 'world' weren't following the workers dictates at the time. I remember listening to a conversation between my dad and the head worker in our region once and it was about what he should be allowing me to do and not to do. So I know for a fact that my dad did what the workers asked when it came to disciplining me and raising me.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 23, 2018 15:27:17 GMT -5
Janj, -where and when did this wonderful upbringing of yours take place?
Being "disempowered" was NOT because of the way our parents raised us, -it was because of the restrictions put on both them and us by being in the religion we were in!
If you are still "professing" and trying to make excuses and make to it sound like a lark; -forget it! We know our own experiences and you can't change that.
Yes I am fully aware that some people had a bad experience growing up in the 2x2 and Im not trying to chsnge that but I am trying to point out to you that not everybody's experience was like yours. If it was nothing to do with our parents then why were our experiences so different when our parents belong to the same church. My parents went about things in a very balanced and sensible fashion and the result was positive. If you don't want to accept and have no interest in anyone else's story that well then that's fine. As for making excuses -excuses for what?! I have nothing to make excuses for -I wasn't responsible for your experience! Jani, -you still haven't answered some the questions.
Of course you don't have to answer, -but often a non-answer tells a lot.
You might be making excuses for the 2x2's if you are still professing. Are you?
What was the time period in which you grew up?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 23, 2018 21:50:24 GMT -5
Yes. And being stronger than one's wife turns out to be an advantage too> Everything in context. Perhaps being kinder is an advantage also. 😊 Works for me Of course. But this conversation started out about age and social class disadvantages. People who have a positive attitude toward others have a distinct advantage for success than people who are negative and indifferent with others.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 23, 2018 22:31:15 GMT -5
And the extreme pressure some parents put on their Children to outdo others in sport ( toxic sportsmanship) The grass might look greener “on the other side of the fence “. But there is often safety, where there is protection , Need to look at the total picture, imo Like the extreme pressure parents put on their children to "profess" ? Which came from workers putting pressure on parents that their children had to "profess" !
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 23, 2018 22:34:14 GMT -5
On the other hand, parents that weren’t in fellowship did many unusual (imo) customs. Ie: underage drinking parties, doing unlawful drugs with their children, using foul language. I would think of the advantages I had over some of my disadvantaged friends , imo. 😢 So are you saying this was done by EVERY parent that didn't belong to the 2x2 church "friend" ? There are plenty of people who belonged to other churches who has standards, sometimes better standards then those in the 2x2 church.
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Post by friends on Jun 24, 2018 0:15:44 GMT -5
Analysis of a “debate” : (Pick your favorite passion and defend it to the conclusion) youtu.be/Q79yQquKq7MHmmmm
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Post by friend on Jun 24, 2018 0:46:34 GMT -5
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 24, 2018 2:33:03 GMT -5
And the extreme pressure some parents put on their Children to outdo others in sport ( toxic sportsmanship) The grass might look greener “on the other side of the fence “. But there is often safety, where there is protection , Need to look at the total picture, imo Like the extreme pressure parents put on their children to "profess" ? Which came from workers putting pressure on parents that their children had to "profess" ! Maybe you missed my post "friend" or whoever you are posting as at the moment ?
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Post by le friend on Jun 24, 2018 6:07:36 GMT -5
Like the extreme pressure parents put on their children to "profess" ? Which came from workers putting pressure on parents that their children had to "profess" ! ? “Rules for perfect parenting?” , likely in the fiction section of bookstore Any other questions? 🤷♂️
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Post by ellie on Jun 24, 2018 7:42:28 GMT -5
After reading this article earlier this morning & feeling absolutely appalled at that situation all over again.. one particular piece of information has struck a chord with me. "The siblings, who range in age from 2 to 29, knew little about the outside world". www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/judge-hears-teens-911-call-in-abused-siblings-case-my-two-little-sisters-right-now-are-chained-up/ar-AAyVsvL?li=AAgfYrC&ocid=mailsignoutI am interested to hear others thoughts (possibly more aimed at ex's) regarding children being disadvantaged being raised in the truth. I can recall feeling embarrassed & like an outcast during high school when a class discussion was raised about pop culture relating to current television shows - everyone was expected to write up a quick review to share with the class. Pretty difficult to do when you do not own a television.... (this is just one example from a whole childhood/adolescence of being made feel this way) Personally I can see how I (& others) was not properly prepared for the "real world" & was raised in a very sheltered environment. Trying to learn, adjust & adapt to fit in is difficult & I have seen it cause mental health issues for so many people once they have left. How many others have experienced this? In early childhood I had a few professing family friends and was allowed to attend the occasional non-professing children's party. On the other hand, I was not permitted to go on some school excursions, prevented from mixing with the neighbouring children and not allowed to participate in the sports I was interested in. Overall my early childhood felt lonely. As a teenager I found my niche and made some close non-professing friends. I wasn't living a sheltered life anymore but a kind of double life trying to please too many people. It wasn't easy and I am glad to be an adult!
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Post by ellie on Jun 24, 2018 7:44:30 GMT -5
On the other hand, parents that weren’t in fellowship did many unusual (imo) customs. Ie: underage drinking parties, doing unlawful drugs with their children, using foul language. I would think of the advantages I had over some of my disadvantaged friends , imo. 😢 I covered for professing youth doing some of the above. After all they needed an outlet after those many meetings!!
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Post by snow on Jun 24, 2018 14:15:39 GMT -5
? “Rules for perfect parenting?” , likely in the fiction section of bookstore Any other questions? 🤷♂️ Wow had to respond to this. I finally found something written by you I can agree with! Rules for perfect parenting is fiction! Yay! I just knew we could find some common ground!
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Post by snow on Jun 24, 2018 14:17:38 GMT -5
After reading this article earlier this morning & feeling absolutely appalled at that situation all over again.. one particular piece of information has struck a chord with me. "The siblings, who range in age from 2 to 29, knew little about the outside world". www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/judge-hears-teens-911-call-in-abused-siblings-case-my-two-little-sisters-right-now-are-chained-up/ar-AAyVsvL?li=AAgfYrC&ocid=mailsignoutI am interested to hear others thoughts (possibly more aimed at ex's) regarding children being disadvantaged being raised in the truth. I can recall feeling embarrassed & like an outcast during high school when a class discussion was raised about pop culture relating to current television shows - everyone was expected to write up a quick review to share with the class. Pretty difficult to do when you do not own a television.... (this is just one example from a whole childhood/adolescence of being made feel this way) Personally I can see how I (& others) was not properly prepared for the "real world" & was raised in a very sheltered environment. Trying to learn, adjust & adapt to fit in is difficult & I have seen it cause mental health issues for so many people once they have left. How many others have experienced this? In early childhood I had a few professing family friends and was allowed to attend the occasional non-professing children's party. On the other hand, I was not permitted to go on some school excursions, prevented from mixing with the neighbouring children and not allowed to participate in the sports I was interested in. Overall my early childhood felt lonely. As a teenager I found my niche and made some close non-professing friends. I wasn't living a sheltered life anymore but a kind of double life trying to please too many people. It wasn't easy and I am glad to be an adult! Can totally relate to this post! Being an adult freed me from living a double life. Once I quit professing that's exactly how it seemed. I was lonely for quite awhile before I was allowed to have 'worldly' friends.
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Post by la friend on Jun 24, 2018 17:31:39 GMT -5
Hmmm ? “Rules for perfect parenting?” , likely in the fiction section of bookstore Any other questions? 🤷♂️ Of course being a perfect child , is fictionally based also . 🤦🏻♂️😉. LOL
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Post by thelight on Jun 24, 2018 19:29:04 GMT -5
Where did black stockings come from that women had to wear when i was a child and also dress plainly, no make up, no jewellery and not cutting their hair. Then their were all the other things like not reading books, no radio and later no TV, no sport, no Music, no dancing and all the other rules. Is this all becoming a bit more relaxed because of parents not forcing their children to conform to the "rules"? As others have spoken of - some children were not allowed to play sport or have 'worldly' friends etc, but others were because their parents allowed it?
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 24, 2018 21:08:59 GMT -5
On the other hand, parents that weren’t in fellowship did many unusual (imo) customs. Ie: underage drinking parties, doing unlawful drugs with their children, using foul language. I would think of the advantages I had over some of my disadvantaged friends , imo. 😢 I covered for professing youth doing some of the above. After all they needed an outlet after those many meetings!! Exactly right ellie !
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