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Post by havejoy on Apr 2, 2018 13:44:26 GMT -5
Not sure if this is where I should post this. I grew up in, well I was born in Newfoundland, moved to Quebec Canada when I was 11. I am b&r but questioning alot lately. Realizing that the F&W leave out verses, pick and choose verses and PART of verses to meet the conformity of the 2x2's There where several families that left meetings in Quebec when I was growing up it would have been 1998-2000 I believe. As kids we were just told they got "offended" but I want to know the real reason. I was VERY close to one of the families sons. One min they were there the next they were gone. It has left be boggled to this very day. That families last name is Mason. The others I can't quite remember. Anyways ibwas wondering if anyone on here has any info Thank you!
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Post by snow on Apr 2, 2018 13:59:43 GMT -5
Not sure if this is where I should post this. I grew up in, well I was born in Newfoundland, moved to Quebec Canada when I was 11. I am b&r but questioning alot lately. Realizing that the F&W leave out verses, pick and choose verses and PART of verses to meet the conformity of the 2x2's There where several families that left meetings in Quebec when I was growing up it would have been 1998-2000 I believe. As kids we were just told they got "offended" but I want to know the real reason. I was VERY close to one of the families sons. One min they were there the next they were gone. It has left be boggled to this very day. That families last name is Mason. The others I can't quite remember. Anyways ibwas wondering if anyone on here has any info Thank you! That is a pat phrase that has been given to many who left the way. Lost out, started their own church, were offended, weren't willing etc are other phrases attributed to anyone that dared to leave the only true way. For me it was 'she lost out because she wasn't willing'. However, that's not true. I 'lost out' after I read the OT and was horrified. I was 12 years old when I quit professing. I professed and took part from age 8 to 12. When I left I still believed in the God of the bible and was sure I was going to hell for not wanting to worship him anymore. Thankfully I grew up and started doing research into many different religions and I now know I I shouldn't have been afraid of going to hell. But I was 12 and had been told that all my life. If I left the F&W's I would have a lost eternity. I'm sorry but I can't help you with your question about the friends in Quebec that left, but the reason you were given is a typical one.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2018 16:06:04 GMT -5
Not sure if this is where I should post this. I grew up in, well I was born in Newfoundland, moved to Quebec Canada when I was 11. I am b&r but questioning alot lately. Realizing that the F&W leave out verses, pick and choose verses and PART of verses to meet the conformity of the 2x2's There where several families that left meetings in Quebec when I was growing up it would have been 1998-2000 I believe. As kids we were just told they got "offended" but I want to know the real reason. I was VERY close to one of the families sons. One min they were there the next they were gone. It has left be boggled to this very day. That families last name is Mason. The others I can't quite remember. Anyways ibwas wondering if anyone on here has any info Thank you! I used to live in Quebec (city) when the Masson family professed. I know why they left. On the other hand, the workers (at least some of them) have claimed that at least one of them suffered from a mental problem. They left for the same reason they left the previous denomination ... they were being lied to.
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Post by havejoy on Apr 2, 2018 16:08:11 GMT -5
Not sure if this is where I should post this. I grew up in, well I was born in Newfoundland, moved to Quebec Canada when I was 11. I am b&r but questioning alot lately. Realizing that the F&W leave out verses, pick and choose verses and PART of verses to meet the conformity of the 2x2's There where several families that left meetings in Quebec when I was growing up it would have been 1998-2000 I believe. As kids we were just told they got "offended" but I want to know the real reason. I was VERY close to one of the families sons. One min they were there the next they were gone. It has left be boggled to this very day. That families last name is Mason. The others I can't quite remember. Anyways ibwas wondering if anyone on here has any info Thank you! I used to live in Quebec (city) when the Masson family professed. I know why they left. On the other hand, the workers (at least some of them) have claimed that at least one of them suffered from a mental problem. They left for the same reason they left the previous denomination ... they were being lied to. Do you know what lies they were talking about? What year were you in Quebec City? Maybe I know you
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2018 16:14:36 GMT -5
I used to live in Quebec (city) when the Masson family professed. I know why they left. On the other hand, the workers (at least some of them) have claimed that at least one of them suffered from a mental problem. They left for the same reason they left the previous denomination ... they were being lied to. Do you know what lies they were talking about? What year were you in Quebec City? Maybe I know you Yes. They were lead to understand that the 2x2's was started in Jesus day, rather than about 1900 as it really was. I was at Université Laval 1980-1983.
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Post by havejoy on Apr 2, 2018 16:17:58 GMT -5
Do you know what lies they were talking about? What year were you in Quebec City? Maybe I know you Yes. They were lead to understand that the 2x2's was started in Jesus day, rather than about 1900 as it really was. I was at Université Laval 1980-1983. That was before my time Makes sense, I'm not sure why it has to,be this secret thing that 2x2 was started from a man. I recently found that out myself. It was then that I started to question everything I was raised to believe, or was ingrained in me as a child. So I was curious about a few families that I know of who left while I was growing up.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2018 16:24:05 GMT -5
Yes. They were lead to understand that the 2x2's was started in Jesus day, rather than about 1900 as it really was. I was at Université Laval 1980-1983. That was before my time Makes sense, I'm not sure why it has to,be this secret thing that 2x2 was started from a man. I recently found that out myself. It was then that I started to question everything I was raised to believe, or was ingrained in me as a child. So I was curious about a few families that I know of who left while I was growing up. I didn't get to know many of the friends in the Montreal area, and just a few in the Eastern Townships. But I do know that some of the workers had tried to keep the French kids from associating much with the English kids because they wanted to keep the French kids from becoming as "worldly" as the English kids. I can't imagine it made any difference whatsoever. My kids sure didn't isolate themselves.
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Post by havejoy on Apr 2, 2018 16:26:56 GMT -5
That was before my time Makes sense, I'm not sure why it has to,be this secret thing that 2x2 was started from a man. I recently found that out myself. It was then that I started to question everything I was raised to believe, or was ingrained in me as a child. So I was curious about a few families that I know of who left while I was growing up. I didn't get to know many of the friends in the Montreal area, and just a few in the Eastern Townships. But I do know that some of the workers had tried to keep the French kids from associating much with the English kids because they wanted to keep the French kids from becoming as "worldly" as the English kids. I can't imagine it made any difference whatsoever. My kids sure didn't isolate themselves. I grew up in the Eastern Townships and can relate to this Completly. I was an "English" kid, well bilingual I guess. There was always a separation though between English and French. It wasn't really spoken of but definitely felt. I grew up in Richmond 5 mins from the convention grounds.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2018 16:38:00 GMT -5
I didn't get to know many of the friends in the Montreal area, and just a few in the Eastern Townships. But I do know that some of the workers had tried to keep the French kids from associating much with the English kids because they wanted to keep the French kids from becoming as "worldly" as the English kids. I can't imagine it made any difference whatsoever. My kids sure didn't isolate themselves. I grew up in the Eastern Townships and can relate to this Completly. I was an "English" kid, well bilingual I guess. There was always a separation though between English and French. It wasn't really spoken of but definitely felt. I grew up in Richmond 5 mins from the convention grounds. We used to go to Richmond for Union Meeting when we lived in Quebec. We went to Sunday meeting in Ste-Anastasie at Jim and Helen Miles' place. I wonder if they're still there. I've met an African guy that lives in Quebec now.
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Post by havejoy on Apr 2, 2018 16:41:10 GMT -5
I grew up in the Eastern Townships and can relate to this Completly. I was an "English" kid, well bilingual I guess. There was always a separation though between English and French. It wasn't really spoken of but definitely felt. I grew up in Richmond 5 mins from the convention grounds. We used to go to Richmond for Union Meeting when we lived in Quebec. We went to Sunday meeting in Ste-Anastasie at Jim and Helen Miles' place. I wonder if they're still there. I've met an African guy that lives in Quebec now. I should mention that I now live in North Dakota married a sweet guy from here! Jim has passed on and Helen lives in a care facility in Granby. My mom and dad still live in Richmond. I'm guessing they probably know that guy. What's his name?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2018 17:54:21 GMT -5
Yes. They were lead to understand that the 2x2's was started in Jesus day, rather than about 1900 as it really was. I was at Université Laval 1980-1983. That was before my time Makes sense, I'm not sure why it has to,be this secret thing that 2x2 was started from a man. I recently found that out myself. It was then that I started to question everything I was raised to believe, or was ingrained in me as a child. So I was curious about a few families that I know of who left while I was growing up. Bascally keeping the history secret allowed the sect to embrace respectability, to deny it had anything to do with those madcap street preaching hell fire and damnation Cooneyite people of its early days and to deny it had an earthy founder thus enabling it to deceive people into believing the workers had some special status by claiming that it was the only church not stated by a man. Had the history not been kept secret it would have been impossible to preach its (rather fundamental) Only Way doctrine with any credibility given that not only had it got a founder like every other church but the founder believed himself to be one of the two witnesses in the Book of Revelation and headed off to Jerusalem to await the Lord’s return. Barking mad I know but they nearly got away with it. But thanks to Doug Parker they didn’t get away with it completely and then came the devil itself, the internet, which blew the doors wide open. Of course there was a brief futile attempt to stick some fingers in the dy ke but the internet proved too powerful. And then people started learning. And leaving. Like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it. Matt10
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janj
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Post by janj on Apr 7, 2018 14:04:18 GMT -5
Not sure if this is where I should post this. I grew up in, well I was born in Newfoundland, moved to Quebec Canada when I was 11. I am b&r but questioning alot lately. Realizing that the F&W leave out verses, pick and choose verses and PART of verses to meet the conformity of the 2x2's There where several families that left meetings in Quebec when I was growing up it would have been 1998-2000 I believe. As kids we were just told they got "offended" but I want to know the real reason. I was VERY close to one of the families sons. One min they were there the next they were gone. It has left be boggled to this very day. That families last name is Mason. The others I can't quite remember. Anyways ibwas wondering if anyone on here has any info Thank you! Growing up I heard that same thing-from the shores... I always just thought they were referring to the way they worshiped and what they believed- that from the beginning. Really ,how could it logically have meant anything else. There were no workers lists, no history recorded. Did you all think that somewhere locked away there was a record of 'professing folks back to the apostles?? I was so suprise and amused when peopke suddenly started announcing that they'd been lied to. Actually they should have just been plain embarrassed that they hadn't thought about it themselves long before them. Being deceived wasn't the problem -been dumb was!
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Post by snow on Apr 7, 2018 14:24:53 GMT -5
Not sure if this is where I should post this. I grew up in, well I was born in Newfoundland, moved to Quebec Canada when I was 11. I am b&r but questioning alot lately. Realizing that the F&W leave out verses, pick and choose verses and PART of verses to meet the conformity of the 2x2's There where several families that left meetings in Quebec when I was growing up it would have been 1998-2000 I believe. As kids we were just told they got "offended" but I want to know the real reason. I was VERY close to one of the families sons. One min they were there the next they were gone. It has left be boggled to this very day. That families last name is Mason. The others I can't quite remember. Anyways ibwas wondering if anyone on here has any info Thank you! Growing up I heard that same thing-from the shores... I always just thought they were referring to the way they worshiped and what they believed- that from the beginning. Really ,how could it logically have meant anything else. There were no workers lists, no history recorded. Did you all think that somewhere locked away there was a record of 'professing folks back to the apostles?? I was so suprise and amused when peopke suddenly started announcing that they'd been lied to. Actually they should have just been plain embarrassed that they hadn't thought about it themselves long before them. Being deceived wasn't the problem -been dumb was! Actually, I agree with you that not thinking about it was the reason they were able to put things over on people. People definitely took the phrase, 'we go back to Jesus on the shores of Galilee' as a truth. Don't question the words of the workers. So while it was a product of not thinking about it, I wouldn't call them dumb. Look at the amount of people that believe that Jesus was born to a Virgin, that there could be a worldwide flood and that the earth is only 6000 years old. We all know none of those things are possible if we really think about it, but many people don't like to question and like to believe the words of those they think are an authority. Doesn't make them dumb though.
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Post by emy on Apr 7, 2018 14:37:13 GMT -5
. Growing up I heard that same thing-from the shores... I always just thought they were referring to the way they worshiped and what they believed- that from the beginning. Really ,how could it logically have meant anything else. There were no workers lists, no history recorded. Did you all think that somewhere locked away there was a record of 'professing folks back to the apostles?? I was so suprise and amused when peopke suddenly started announcing that they'd been lied to. Actually they should have just been plain embarrassed that they hadn't thought about it themselves long before them. Being deceived wasn't the problem -been dumb was! Thank you janj! About being "lied to." I think it is plain from posts here on TMB that "back when" many people knew the origins. There is a letter by George Walker that says a group of men came together and searched the Bible according to what Jesus and his apostles taught. IMO, that would be how it came from the shores... and what Jesus brought was planned "before The world began." (1 Peter 1:20 God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but now in these last days he has been revealed for your sake.) There are periods in the Bible when history of God's people is missing and there are periods when the history we do have is very black for extended times. Apparently some of those first few men could not continue in what they believed, and weren't able to continue with the rest, and there is record of that. What's most important to me is that here and now, men and women also search scriptures to see if there is evidence for what they are taught and how they worship and have fellowship. Also, an experience I had during a hospital stay, with a priest who questioned me about whether my church could trace its roots back to Jesus, helps me know that I wasn't led to believe that an "unbroken line" is essential. Jesus focused on fruit. When we find something in nature that produces fruit without spot or blemish then we will know that we could be able to be perfect fruit through our own effort. (not) I'm grateful that Jesus makes us whole in God's eyes by what he provides. But without his covering we have plenty of spots.
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Post by emy on Apr 7, 2018 14:44:22 GMT -5
Snow wrote: ...was the reason they were able to put things over on people.
"Put things over" insinuates an attempt to deceive. I have met and listened to enough of those early workers so I very much doubt that's true.
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Post by snow on Apr 7, 2018 14:44:46 GMT -5
. Growing up I heard that same thing-from the shores... I always just thought they were referring to the way they worshiped and what they believed- that from the beginning. Really ,how could it logically have meant anything else. There were no workers lists, no history recorded. Did you all think that somewhere locked away there was a record of 'professing folks back to the apostles?? I was so suprise and amused when peopke suddenly started announcing that they'd been lied to. Actually they should have just been plain embarrassed that they hadn't thought about it themselves long before them. Being deceived wasn't the problem -been dumb was! Thank you janj! About being "lied to." I think it is plain from posts here on TMB that "back when" many people knew the origins. There is a letter by George Walker that says a group of men came together and searched the Bible according to what Jesus and his apostles taught. IMO, that would be how it came from the shores... and what Jesus brought was planned "before The world began." (1 Peter 1:20 God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but now in these last days he has been revealed for your sake.) There are periods in the Bible when history of God's people is missing and there are periods when the history we do have is very black for extended times. Apparently some of those first few men could not continue in what they believed, and weren't able to continue with the rest, and there is record of that. What's most important to me is that here and now, men and women also search scriptures to see if there is evidence for what they are taught and how they worship and have fellowship. Also, an experience I had during a hospital stay, with a priest who questioned me about whether my church could trace its roots back to Jesus, helps me know that I wasn't led to believe that an "unbroken line" is essential. Jesus focused on fruit. When we find something in nature that produces fruit without spot or blemish then we will know that we could be able to be perfect fruit through our own effort. (not) I'm grateful that Jesus makes us whole in God's eyes by what he provides. But without his covering we have plenty of spots. While I do agree that it really shouldn't matter whether or not they had an unbroken line back to Jesus or not, really isn't the issue. I don't think they were dumb when they believed there was based on what we heard from the 'pulpit'. I often heard that we were the only group that could claim that we 'went back to the shores of Galilee'. What are people supposed to get from that statement? We all know the RCC go back to that time so making a claim like that made it seem like we did too, only we were the only one doing it right and hadn't strayed from the way it should be done like the RCC. They weren't dumb. They just took the workers at their word. Didn't really think about it because they wanted to believe that they were special and the only true way.
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Post by havejoy on Apr 7, 2018 14:46:07 GMT -5
. Growing up I heard that same thing-from the shores... I always just thought they were referring to the way they worshiped and what they believed- that from the beginning. Really ,how could it logically have meant anything else. There were no workers lists, no history recorded. Did you all think that somewhere locked away there was a record of 'professing folks back to the apostles?? I was so suprise and amused when peopke suddenly started announcing that they'd been lied to. Actually they should have just been plain embarrassed that they hadn't thought about it themselves long before them. Being deceived wasn't the problem -been dumb was! Thank you janj! About being "lied to." I think it is plain from posts here on TMB that "back when" many people knew the origins. There is a letter by George Walker that says a group of men came together and searched the Bible according to what Jesus and his apostles taught. IMO, that would be how it came from the shores... and what Jesus brought was planned "before The world began." (1 Peter 1:20 God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but now in these last days he has been revealed for your sake.) There are periods in the Bible when history of God's people is missing and there are periods when the history we do have is very black for extended times. Apparently some of those first few men could not continue in what they believed, and weren't able to continue with the rest, and there is record of that. What's most important to me is that here and now, men and women also search scriptures to see if there is evidence for what they are taught and how they worship and have fellowship. Also, an experience I had during a hospital stay, with a priest who questioned me about whether my church could trace its roots back to Jesus, helps me know that I wasn't led to believe that an "unbroken line" is essential. Jesus focused on fruit. When we find something in nature that produces fruit without spot or blemish then we will know that we could be able to be perfect fruit through our own effort. (not) I'm grateful that Jesus makes us whole in God's eyes by what he provides. But without his covering we have plenty of spots. The thing is we have been searching the scripture and finding things/verses that do not line up with what the 2x2 teach. Alot of it is there, but there are alot of "things" they teach that does not line up. Growing up and still today they tlk about other churches or demoninations that pick and choose verses to suit their teachings well we have come to realize that 2x2's do the same thing.
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Post by snow on Apr 7, 2018 14:47:17 GMT -5
Snow wrote: ...was the reason they were able to put things over on people. "Put things over" insinuates an attempt to deceive. I have met and listened to enough of those early workers so I very much doubt that's true. You could be right but if my grandfather who professed in 1915 he heard it from the workers that formed the group. And, he definitely thought it went on forever, back to the shores of Galilee. Lies can be told by omission too. If any of the workers knew the truth it would be the ones that my grandfather professed under. So yes, they wanted to believe so badly that the workers were able to imply and be believed. You tell me if that isn't 'put one over on' people.
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Post by emy on Apr 7, 2018 15:04:36 GMT -5
The thing is we have been searching the scripture and finding things/verses that do not line up with what the 2x2 teach. Alot of it is there, but there are alot of "things" they teach that does not line up. Growing up and still today they tlk about other churches or demoninations that pick and choose verses to suit their teachings well we have come to realize that 2x2's do the same thing. Please give some examples of these things taught that don't have support from the Bible. Thanks
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Post by havejoy on Apr 7, 2018 15:20:09 GMT -5
The thing is we have been searching the scripture and finding things/verses that do not line up with what the 2x2 teach. Alot of it is there, but there are alot of "things" they teach that does not line up. Growing up and still today they tlk about other churches or demoninations that pick and choose verses to suit their teachings well we have come to realize that 2x2's do the same thing. Please give some examples of these things taught that don't have support from the Bible. Thanks All of the "unwritten" rules. No makeup, no jewlery, no piercings ( rebekka had a nose ring) hair must be up, no tv, Christian music ( which is incredibly encouraging) is frowned upon, no going to bible studies outside of the meetings ( meeting with other faithful Christians outside the meetings) saying workers cannot get married,
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Post by havejoy on Apr 7, 2018 15:33:15 GMT -5
The thing is we have been searching the scripture and finding things/verses that do not line up with what the 2x2 teach. Alot of it is there, but there are alot of "things" they teach that does not line up. Growing up and still today they tlk about other churches or demoninations that pick and choose verses to suit their teachings well we have come to realize that 2x2's do the same thing. Please give some examples of these things taught that don't have support from the Bible. Thanks Galations 2 gave me alot of comfort this morning. ( ESV version)
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Post by emy on Apr 7, 2018 15:56:28 GMT -5
All of the "unwritten" rules. No makeup, no jewlery, no piercings ( rebekka had a nose ring) hair must be up, no tv, Christian music ( which is incredibly encouraging) is frowned upon, no going to bible studies outside of the meetings ( meeting with other faithful Christians outside the meetings) saying workers cannot get married, I'm not able, and not willing to dispute your points off the top of my head. I need to search and pray for answers. The last thing I want is to become argumentative, or contentious.
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Post by havejoy on Apr 7, 2018 15:57:19 GMT -5
All of the "unwritten" rules. No makeup, no jewlery, no piercings ( rebekka had a nose ring) hair must be up, no tv, Christian music ( which is incredibly encouraging) is frowned upon, no going to bible studies outside of the meetings ( meeting with other faithful Christians outside the meetings) saying workers cannot get married, I'm not able, and not willing to dispute your points off the top of my head. I need to search and pray for answers. The last thing I want is to become argumentative, or contentious. I agree 😃😃
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Post by Grant on Apr 7, 2018 15:59:14 GMT -5
Please give some examples of these things taught that don't have support from the Bible. Thanks Galations 2 gave me alot of comfort this morning. ( ESV version) Especially verse 16 on (Galatians 2) being justified not by the works of the law but the Faith of Jesus Christ. Making rules is not the Gospel. Faith in Jesus alone is.
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Post by havejoy on Apr 7, 2018 15:59:46 GMT -5
Galations 2 gave me alot of comfort this morning. ( ESV version) Especially verse 16 on (Galatians 2) being justified not by the works of the law but the Faith of Jesus Christ. Making rules is not the Gospel. Faith in Jesus alone is. YESSS ❤❤
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Post by Grant on Apr 7, 2018 16:01:36 GMT -5
Or as it says, Christ died in vain. Our works do not save.
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Post by withlove on Apr 7, 2018 16:09:28 GMT -5
Not sure if this is where I should post this. I grew up in, well I was born in Newfoundland, moved to Quebec Canada when I was 11. I am b&r but questioning alot lately. Realizing that the F&W leave out verses, pick and choose verses and PART of verses to meet the conformity of the 2x2's There where several families that left meetings in Quebec when I was growing up it would have been 1998-2000 I believe. As kids we were just told they got "offended" but I want to know the real reason. I was VERY close to one of the families sons. One min they were there the next they were gone. It has left be boggled to this very day. That families last name is Mason. The others I can't quite remember. Anyways ibwas wondering if anyone on here has any info Thank you! Growing up I heard that same thing-from the shores... I always just thought they were referring to the way they worshiped and what they believed- that from the beginning. Really ,how could it logically have meant anything else. There were no workers lists, no history recorded. Did you all think that somewhere locked away there was a record of 'professing folks back to the apostles?? I was so suprise and amused when peopke suddenly started announcing that they'd been lied to. Actually they should have just been plain embarrassed that they hadn't thought about it themselves long before them. Being deceived wasn't the problem -been dumb was! You didn't hear the same thing many of us did, then. We heard, plainly, that we were the original church, and that the Roman Catholics broke off from us. That even though all the letters through the ages between friends and workers didn't survive, it still was so. Unbroken chain. There definitely has been some revisionist history going on, and some lying by omission. Anyone who sat in the meetings that I did and now claims they heard something different is lying. It was clear as crystal. Not a case of implying or of misinterpretation or low IQ. I'll believe you that your experience is different.
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Post by withlove on Apr 7, 2018 16:16:10 GMT -5
Not sure if this is where I should post this. I grew up in, well I was born in Newfoundland, moved to Quebec Canada when I was 11. I am b&r but questioning alot lately. Realizing that the F&W leave out verses, pick and choose verses and PART of verses to meet the conformity of the 2x2's There where several families that left meetings in Quebec when I was growing up it would have been 1998-2000 I believe. As kids we were just told they got "offended" but I want to know the real reason. I was VERY close to one of the families sons. One min they were there the next they were gone. It has left be boggled to this very day. That families last name is Mason. The others I can't quite remember. Anyways ibwas wondering if anyone on here has any info Thank you! It's a tough spot to be in to be having your perceived world crumble around you. I'm hoping you and we all find all the answers needed. And healing. <3
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