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Post by Get off of TMB on Feb 5, 2018 21:02:39 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Feb 6, 2018 3:12:21 GMT -5
We don't use all the verses...
God in heaven hath a treasure, Riches none may count or tell; Hath a deep eternal pleasure, Christ, the Son, He loveth well. God hath here on earth a treasure, None but He its price may know— Deep, unfathomable pleasure, Christ revealed in saints below.
Christ, the Light that fills the heavens, Shining forth on earth beneath, Through His Spirit freely given, Light of life ’midst shades of death. Down from heav’n’s unclouded glory God Himself the treasure brought, Closing thus His love’s sweet story With His sweetest, deepest thought.
God in tongues of fire descending, Chosen vessels thus to fill With the treasure never ending, Ever spent—unfailing still. Still unwasted, undiminished, Though the days of dearth wear on, Store eternally unfinished, Fresh, as if but now begun.
Earthen vessels, marred, unsightly, But the treasure as of old, Fresh from glory, gleaming brightly, Heav’n’s undimmed, unchanging gold. God’s own hand the vessel filling From the glory far above, Longing hearts forever stilling With those riches of His love.
Thus, through earthen vessels only, Shining forth in ceaseless grace, Reaching weary hearts and lonely, Beams the light in Jesus’ face. Vessels worthless, broken, bearing Through the hungry ages on, Riches giv’n with hand unsparing, God’s great gift, His precious Son.
Thus though worn, and tried, and tempted, Glorious calling, saint, is thine; Let the Lord but find thee emptied, Living branch in Christ the Vine! Vessels of the world’s despising, Vessels weak, and poor, and base; Bearing wealth God’s heart is prizing, Glory from Christ’s blessed face.
Oh, to be but emptier, lowlier, Mean, unnoticed, and unknown, And to God a vessel holier, Filled with Christ, and Christ alone! Naught of earth to cloud the glory, Naught of self the light to dim, Telling forth His wondrous story, Emptied—to be filled with Him.
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Post by howitis on Feb 7, 2018 18:10:14 GMT -5
Original I think was written in German and yes, the word appears to be "mean" not "meek"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 19:38:52 GMT -5
You don't hear it much anymore, but it seems like "mean" also can be defined as meager or diminutive.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 7, 2018 19:56:32 GMT -5
You don't hear it much anymore, but it seems like "mean" also can be defined as meager or diminutive. I think it is supposed to be "weak."
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Post by Gene on Feb 8, 2018 7:20:03 GMT -5
I think it is supposed to be "weak." Indeed you're right. Ironically, another definition is "unwilling to give or share things, especially money; not generous." Gotta love the nearly inscrutable English language.
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Post by snow on Feb 8, 2018 13:56:15 GMT -5
Thanks - I stand corrected - how some words change in meaning! Which was my point about all the new versions that have been made of the bible over the years. We lose meaning and sometimes change it completely from the original thought. Knowing how many idioms the English language has and how hard it is for people to learn them and use them correctly if English is not their first language, you've got to wonder how much of those writings never were meant to mean what we interpret them to mean throughout all the revisions.
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Post by fixit on Feb 8, 2018 15:29:04 GMT -5
Thanks - I stand corrected - how some words change in meaning! Which was my point about all the new versions that have been made of the bible over the years. We lose meaning and sometimes change it completely from the original thought. Knowing how many idioms the English language has and how hard it is for people to learn them and use them correctly if English is not their first language, you've got to wonder how much of those writings never were meant to mean what we interpret them to mean throughout all the revisions. Well said. Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek would have also had their own idioms and losses in translation.
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Post by blandie on Feb 8, 2018 15:45:18 GMT -5
Which was my point about all the new versions that have been made of the bible over the years. We lose meaning and sometimes change it completely from the original thought. Knowing how many idioms the English language has and how hard it is for people to learn them and use them correctly if English is not their first language, you've got to wonder how much of those writings never were meant to mean what we interpret them to mean throughout all the revisions. Yes thats a problem when bringing old documents into a modern setting and assuming that our modern usage matches the older usage. Happens in shakespeare too that was written about the same time as kjv - which is why some printings of both have lots of footnotes to let the modern reader in on how the meanings of some words have changed. Tho the workers pooh-pooh the work of seminaries it is thru work done there that local translations of the bible have been constantly been updated to reflect the source materials as closely as possible - including all those footnotes that give updated or more full readings when there is no exact modern equivalent. We and even the workers would all still have to know koine greek or 4th century latin to read the bible otherwise - luther and wycliff and the kjv translators were all seminarians when they did their translations and even waldo commissioned a catholic seminarian to do his translation. Theres a lot of For secular writings like contracts we have historians and courts to figure out and explain the original intent of the source. You are right about idioms too and that makes english difficult from one country to another tho mass media is flattening that out but those idioms still change even from year to year. Not every language is as idiomatic as english and not every form of writing is as prone to using idioms but they still need to be taken into consideration which is why footnotes can be so valuable - never understood some workers who argued against bibles that had sidenotes.
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Post by snow on Feb 9, 2018 12:39:18 GMT -5
Which was my point about all the new versions that have been made of the bible over the years. We lose meaning and sometimes change it completely from the original thought. Knowing how many idioms the English language has and how hard it is for people to learn them and use them correctly if English is not their first language, you've got to wonder how much of those writings never were meant to mean what we interpret them to mean throughout all the revisions. Yes thats a problem when bringing old documents into a modern setting and assuming that our modern usage matches the older usage. Happens in shakespeare too that was written about the same time as kjv - which is why some printings of both have lots of footnotes to let the modern reader in on how the meanings of some words have changed. Tho the workers pooh-pooh the work of seminaries it is thru work done there that local translations of the bible have been constantly been updated to reflect the source materials as closely as possible - including all those footnotes that give updated or more full readings when there is no exact modern equivalent. We and even the workers would all still have to know koine greek or 4th century latin to read the bible otherwise - luther and wycliff and the kjv translators were all seminarians when they did their translations and even waldo commissioned a catholic seminarian to do his translation. Theres a lot of For secular writings like contracts we have historians and courts to figure out and explain the original intent of the source. You are right about idioms too and that makes english difficult from one country to another tho mass media is flattening that out but those idioms still change even from year to year. Not every language is as idiomatic as english and not every form of writing is as prone to using idioms but they still need to be taken into consideration which is why footnotes can be so valuable - never understood some workers who argued against bibles that had sidenotes. I think it's important to know the history of what you are reading. I find it interesting to read what other religions hear when they read the bible. I am reading a book right now written about documents found in a monastery in Tibet and how they interpret the wanderings of the Hebrew people. The author had some valid points and it's interesting that there is some evidence of the lost tribes having headed towards the Kashmir area and into China. All in all an interesting read. I have always thought that the teachings of Jesus were more in line with Eastern philosophy. The book is called 'Jesus lived in India' by Holger Kersten. I had read some of the earlier authors on the documents that claim Jesus' missing years were spent traveling and studying in Egypt and the Tibet/India area. But this author goes more into where he feels there is evidence that Abraham and Sarah may also have come from near that region.
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Post by fixit on Feb 9, 2018 13:27:40 GMT -5
Here's one of many English words that are used very differently according to region:
momentarily ˈməʊm(ə)nt(ə)rɪli,ˌməʊm(ə)nˈtɛrɪli/Submit adverb 1. for a very short time. "as he passed Jenny's door, he paused momentarily" synonyms: briefly, temporarily, fleetingly, for a moment, for a second, for an instant, for a minute, for a little while "as he passed her door, he paused momentarily" 2. NORTH AMERICAN at any moment; very soon. "my husband will be here to pick me up momentarily" synonyms: (very) soon, in a minute, in a second, in a trice, in a flash, shortly, any minute, any minute now, in a short time, in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, in (less than) no time, in no time at all, before you know it, before long; informalin a jiffy, in two shakes, in two shakes of a lamb's tail, before you can say Jack Robinson, in the blink of an eye, in a blink, in the wink of an eye, in a wink, before you can say knife; informalin a tick, in two ticks, in a mo; informalin a snap; archaicanon; archaicere long "my husband will pick me up momentarily"
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Post by magpie on Feb 10, 2018 0:44:37 GMT -5
"God in Heaven has a Treasure"(originally had 7 stanzas) Translated from German by Mrs Emma Bevan,who sadly never knew William Irvine's Doctrine,so she was not Profess'n,how bad she wasn't saved!!!. When dumb people say others are "sing'n Meet'n Imns",look up the History of the Writer and Musician first "PLEASE",don't show your ignorance,a narrow way sure doesn't mean you need a narrow mind.
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Post by magpie on Feb 10, 2018 0:49:44 GMT -5
Me again Gill,What a great number. By the way I was refering to TMB history,how many times others are accused of "sing'n meet'n Imms".when they are some two/three hundred years old.Maggie
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Post by stevnz on Feb 10, 2018 22:13:20 GMT -5
from sites.google.com/site/hymnsoldandnew/ II Cor. 4:7 Rev. Paulus Gerhardt 1607-1676 German Lutheran Studied theology at the University of Wittenberg from 1628 to 1642. In 1651 he was ordained and made pastor of a church in Brandenburg, near Berlin. In 1657 he became third assistant at St Nicholas Church in Berlin. In his sermons, he maintained the Lutheran position against the Calvinists. He refused to sign a pledge not to bring theological argument into his sermons, and was deposed by Frederick William of Brandenberg-Prussia in 1666. His wife and four of his children died. In 1669 he was made archdeacon of Luebben, and died there 7 June 1676. Despite personal suffering and the horrors of the Thirty Years War, Gerhardt wrote over 130 hymns, expressing both orthodox doctrines and emotional warmth in response to them. His work is counted by hymnologists as transitional between the Confessional and the Pietistic periods of Lutheran hymnody. Translated from German into English by Emma Frances Shuttleworth-Bevan (1827-1909) Plymouth Brethren. Daughter of the Right Rev. Philip Nicholas Shuttleworth, sometime Bishop of Chichester. When a girl, Mrs Bevan was taught by a German governess, and became interested in Gothic art and medieval Christianity; and later on she was much attached to the family of Baron von Bunsen, at one time Prussian ambassador to England, whose scholarly attainments largely influenced her study of German literature. Shortly after her marriage Frances joined the Plymouth Brethren in Barnet. Her husband, however, remained Church of England. The hymns of Frances Bevan are chiefly translations from German Pietists (so-called) of the Middle Ages. Frances withdrew from society. She was distant from family life, not giving her children toys but only ‘useful’ presents and not permitting them fiction. Mrs. Bevan published in 1858 a series of translations from the German as Songs of Eternal Life (Lond., Hamilton, Adams, & Co.) and also published Songs of Praise for Christian Pilgrims (Lond., Hamilton, Adams, 1859). Original hymn 'Light of a Stone Most Precious' has 7 verses with 3 other verses between v1 & v2. 2 Christ, the light that fills the heavens Shining forth on earth beneath, Through His Spirit freely given Light of life midst shades of death; Down from heaven's unclouded glory God Himself the treasure brought, Closing thus His love's sweet story With His sweetest, deepest thought. 3 God, in tongues of fire descending, Chosen vessels thus to fill With the treasure never ending, Ever spent-unfailing still. Still unwasted, undiminished Though the days of dearth wear on, Store eternally unfinished-- Fresh, as if but now begun. 4 Earthen vessels, marred, unsightly, But the treasure as of old, Fresh from glory, gleaming brightly, Heaven's undimmed, unchanging gold. God's own hand the vessel filling From the glory far above, Longing hearts for ever stilling With those riches of His love. See also www.stempublishing.com/hymns/biographies/gerhardt.html hymnary.org/person/Gerhardt_Paulhymnary.org/text/god_in_heaven_hath_a_treasure
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Post by magpie on Feb 11, 2018 19:43:38 GMT -5
G'day Stevnz,, Love the history of the great old hymns,Thanks,Maggie
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