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Post by maryhig on Sept 25, 2017 3:32:15 GMT -5
I believe in God, the father almighty, creator of heaven and earth and all that is within, I also believe In Jesus Our savior who died that our sins may be forgiven; He paid a debt for us that He did not owe. Such was His love for humanity. That whole concept is evil in itself that an innocent person should have to die to save ANYONE, -least of all people his own father supposedly created mankind but made such a mess of the job that they had to be "saved!"
It is a myth of course but what a miserable, unfair, actually evil concept it is to start with! How can ANYONE even want to "worship" such being as that kind of a "father?"
What would we think of the morality of any father that did that to his son today? Would we agree with HIM and even "worship" HIM? I sincerely hope not!
Think about it! It doesn't even come close to being the kind of a father that any ethical person would hold up as a model of morality!
But just because it is a story that somehow makes the people who believe it feel good , -they ignore the implications of the evil in such a story as a reality!God didn't do that, he sent Jesus to bare witness to the truth. and wicked men crucified him. Jesus said to those who took him, this is your hour, and the power of darkness, God isn't darkness he is light. Jesus didn't die to save us, he lived to save us preaching the ministry of reconciliation, hoping to reconcile as many as possible to God who believe in him and his word, saving them through faith by the grace of God.
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Post by maryhig on Sept 25, 2017 3:38:40 GMT -5
Well there you have it the divine plan. Hopefully that's a spoof! It is exactly what children are being taught though. I don't understand how people don't see it? It seems so obvious to me just how much God is a man made concept to provide power over the people for some, comfort and security for others. The only power God has given me, is power over my flesh. God has no interest in the power of this world those truly born of God become servants and have no interest in having power over others. Comfort, yes, I do have that, and I've never known peace like it in my life. God is there snow, I hope from my heart that you see him one day.
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Post by maryhig on Sept 25, 2017 3:54:59 GMT -5
No one said about believers or non believers being decent people, I said about being fallible because we are human and Christians knowing freedom from their mistakes in this life because they have the peace that they are forgiven. It's not about waiting until death but knowing you are forgiven here and now. They believe we don't have to carry the burden of their wrong because Jesus has done it. You have a distorted view of Christanity. The focus and message is paradise. Some churches are critised because they don't preach hell fire and brimstone. Others don't believe in hell but heaven or nothing. The christian message is positive and looking up not down to hell. Do you always look on the negative. Don't get into a relationship because of the potential for negative or do you look at the rewards. Do you see the glass half empty or half full? My point was that some people are decent and some are not. Doesn't matter if you're a theist or an atheist. You made the statement that atheists don't have any reason to do good except to stay out of jail. Which is very wrong. I don't do those things because it's wrong to do harm. Why is it wrong? Because it hurts someone else and in society we will always do better if we pull together and people can feel somewhat safe. No one likes to live in an unsafe environment and some people believe it's their responsibility to contribute to the well being of others. It is always better to act from a place of love rather than a place of obligation or for a reward like heaven. Or, like some Christians believe, not going to hell. Do you deny that the religion we grew up in didn't preach that we were saved by our deeds? I have the version of Christianity I was taught. Sure it was twisted, all religion is imo. Not every Christian believes they are saved by grace. Those that don't believe in saved by grace don't have any guarantees of heaven so that would not make it a religion of hope. Wishing, but not hope. It would be doing what they should do because of the fear of hell. It depends on how we see what being saved by grace means, I don't believe being saved by grace means that by just saying the words "I believe" means you are eternally saved, regardless of how we live. To me being saved by the grace of God is to be saved from the world and works of the flesh by the power of the Spirit helping us to overcome through faith . We are to endure to the end to be eternally saved. God wants us to turn from sin and live by his will, loving him with all our heart mind and soul, and our neighbour as ourselves, this is what it is to truly follow Jesus. If everyone obeyed those two commandments, the world would be a different place.
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Post by maryhig on Sept 25, 2017 4:09:48 GMT -5
Is it fair that children inherit genetic diseases? I'm not advocating inherited sin but that nature and nurture are intertwined. It's that debate that no one is born a clean slate. We are all born with the potential to do wrong and we all do. There is no one who is born with a perfect 'sin free' nature. Taking our first breath shows our frailty and dependence on things outside ourselves. We live in an imperfect world and we are imperfect beings. This argument makes little sense in terms of sin. We have the potential to do wrong but at what point does that happen? According to doctrine a 6 month child that had not been baptized is doomed to hell for the sin that, according to your statement, s/he might or might not commit sometime in her/his life. But, for adventure, how does killing a person do anything about the wrongs of another? Sounds like the acts during the american civil war when a wealthy person could buy his way out of the army and have someone else go in his place. Then there is the notion of sin - an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. For an individual that does not believe in divine law, or a divine law giver, sin is not any more possible that it would be for someone to 'goof up' by committing an immoral act considered to be a transgression against wishes of the great unicorn. We are all born with a sin free nature. The concept of sin is something that has to be taught to children. Hi Rational, where in the bible does it say that a 6 month child is doomed to hell? I've never read that, and to be truly baptised by water is hear the word of God and believe, natural water baptism is symbolic. a baby hasn't sinned, how can it go to hell? Hell is a state we are pulled in to by the lusts of our flesh, when we are tempted and fall. A baby doesn't lust. Jesus said we are to become as a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven, he also said that those who are in heaven are like them. God wants our hearts to be cleansed and to have the innocence again like a child, and the way is through Christ Jesus, he showed us how to live before God, he is our perfect example. Love our enemies, do good to those that hate us, Bless those who curse us, pray for those who despitefully use us and always show forgiveness and don't hold hardness in our hearts. And the Holy Spirit within our hearts helps us to overcome those things, and he helps us to fight the lusts of the flesh and overcome as Jesus did. Jesus is the way, not any denomination, and his way is the only way to follow. And no, death doesn't save, life saves
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Post by maryhig on Sept 25, 2017 4:19:52 GMT -5
Again curly, I was not talking about who does right or wrong I am talking about what Snow said about Christians believing that we are born in sin or words to that affect. While snow might have said it the bible said it first: Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:Psalms 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.That means that we are born into sinful flesh, which we are. But we aren't born sinners. We are shapen in iniquity, meaning, as we grow and let sin in, that sin grows. But we are held responsible once we know the truth and still wilfully sin Jesus said to the pharasees, because you say you see. Your sin remains. Those who know God and purposely sin are worse than those who don't know God. Jesus said to Pilate, those who have handed me over have committed the greater sin. Why? Because they know the truth and still handed him over to be murdered when God gave them the law of thou shalt not kill. As Jesus said to them, moses gave you a law, So why do you go about to kill me? They disobeyed God, they committed the greater sin, and those who wilfully sin knowing the truth, crucify Christ afresh and put him to an open shame.
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Post by snow on Sept 25, 2017 11:39:56 GMT -5
Well Tertullian definitely felt that mankind was born into sin and he blamed Eve.
"In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God’s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil’s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die… Woman, you are the gate to hell. –Tertullian, “the father of Latin Christianity” (c160-225): On the Apparel of Women, chapter 1"
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Post by snow on Sept 25, 2017 11:41:31 GMT -5
maryhig you have a different belief than most Christians when it comes to Jesus dying on the cross. Most think he died for your sins. You don't. So many interpretations of the same thing. How does anyone ever know if their interpretation is the right one?
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Post by rational on Sept 25, 2017 12:20:38 GMT -5
Children often lie to keep out of trouble. Are you saying their parents taught them to do this, Rational? I would say lying to keep out of trouble is more natural than taught. It can be reinforced by positive results and extinguished by punishment but how did the child know to do it in the first place? You can replace the word sin with doing wrong. This just pushes the problem back earlier in the developmental process. If the child didn't know it was wrong why would they expect trouble? This also speaks to the reason that many children cannot discuss things with their parents - they think they will be in trouble or be punished. Punish does not really extinguish behavior but rather moves it to a place/time where the actor does not believe they will be caught. There is a reason why parents threaten their children with the "all-seeing, all-knowing" god.
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Post by maryhig on Sept 26, 2017 3:46:46 GMT -5
maryhig you have a different belief than most Christians when it comes to Jesus dying on the cross. Most think he died for your sins. You don't. So many interpretations of the same thing. How does anyone ever know if their interpretation is the right one? Well, as you know snow, I see the cross differently to many others and I also believe differently to many of the mainstream denominations regarding the bible. Many say that Jesus came to this world to die on the cross, yet Jesus himself said that the reason he was born and came into this world is to bare witness to the truth. Jesus came to show us how to live before God it says in the bible that Jesus came to do and teach. So he came and lived what he preached and by doing so, he taught and showed us the truth, the true way to live to please God. He came as our perfect example to follow, and now that the way has been lived out perfectly, we have no excuse once we know. It also says in the bible that the they delivered Jesus up to be crucified because of envy, and that this was their hour, and the power of darkness. God is not darkness, he is light the power of darkness is from the devil, and Jesus also said that they are doing the work of their Father the devil by trying to kill him. But God knew what they would do to him, and he foretold it in the prophets, and Jesus was willing to suffer it to to bring us the truth. He bore our sins and was even crucified, yet he showed love, mercy and forgiveness in return, even asking the father to forgive them, he was full of love. And Jesus fulfilled the scriptures, and showed us that we are to endure whatever is set before us, live by the will of God, show love mercy and forgiveness to others, keep our faith and endure to the end, and he through the Spirit will help us and strengthen us to overcome. He will always be with those who truly follow him, those who deny themselves, and bare their cross partaking in the sufferings of christ to bare witness to the truth and please God. As for the cross, there are many verses in the bible that shows me it was wrong to crucify Jesus, and this one (below) actually said that God was not pleased at them doing so, so if God was not pleased, why would he be behind it? 1 Thessalonians 2 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, and are contrary to all men: We are not saved by the death of Jesus, we are saved by his life, and saved from this world of sin and death by the grace of God through faith. And we are to endure to the end to be eternally saved. Only God can judge who is and isn't saved, I don't call myself saved, And I certainly don't look down on anyone else and call them unsaved, who am I, a sinner to judge another? I'm being saved daily as I remain in Gods goodness, if I turn away, I will be cut off. I have hope for everyone snow. Jesus came to save the world, and if he is in our heart, then we should be wanting him to carry on doing so through us, and bring the love of God and life of Christ to others, and speak the word given us to speak in the hope that they will hear and believe. I hope to see all of you all in heaven. I don't want anyone to go to hell. I don't think like that about others. Jesus wants to lift us out of the hell and death which we are in, in this world whilst we are under the power of darkness. And bring us to the light and life of God. Being in hell, is being darkness snow, away from God, and satan having control of our hearts. Jesus is the light, he is the way, the truth and the life. His way is the only way, and the way to the father is through him. But it's not just saying "I believe" it's being a doer of the word and not a hearer only. So, I hope for everyone. And I just speak and leave God to do the judging, as only be knows who's truly heard the truth.
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Post by snow on Sept 26, 2017 17:11:47 GMT -5
maryhig you have a different belief than most Christians when it comes to Jesus dying on the cross. Most think he died for your sins. You don't. So many interpretations of the same thing. How does anyone ever know if their interpretation is the right one? Well, as you know snow, I see the cross differently to many others and I also believe differently to many of the mainstream denominations regarding the bible. Many say that Jesus came to this world to die on the cross, yet Jesus himself said that the reason he was born and came into this world is to bare witness to the truth. Jesus came to show us how to live before God it says in the bible that Jesus came to do and teach. So he came and lived what he preached and by doing so, he taught and showed us the truth, the true way to live to please God. He came as our perfect example to follow, and now that the way has been lived out perfectly, we have no excuse once we know. It also says in the bible that the they delivered Jesus up to be crucified because of envy, and that this was their hour, and the power of darkness. God is not darkness, he is light the power of darkness is from the devil, and Jesus also said that they are doing the work of their Father the devil by trying to kill him. But God knew what they would do to him, and he foretold it in the prophets, and Jesus was willing to suffer it to to bring us the truth. He bore our sins and was even crucified, yet he showed love, mercy and forgiveness in return, even asking the father to forgive them, he was full of love. And Jesus fulfilled the scriptures, and showed us that we are to endure whatever is set before us, live by the will of God, show love mercy and forgiveness to others, keep our faith and endure to the end, and he through the Spirit will help us and strengthen us to overcome. He will always be with those who truly follow him, those who deny themselves, and bare their cross partaking in the sufferings of christ to bare witness to the truth and please God. As for the cross, there are many verses in the bible that shows me it was wrong to crucify Jesus, and this one (below) actually said that God was not pleased at them doing so, so if God was not pleased, why would he be behind it? 1 Thessalonians 2 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, and are contrary to all men: We are not saved by the death of Jesus, we are saved by his life, and saved from this world of sin and death by the grace of God through faith. And we are to endure to the end to be eternally saved. Only God can judge who is and isn't saved, I don't call myself saved, And I certainly don't look down on anyone else and call them unsaved, who am I, a sinner to judge another? I'm being saved daily as I remain in Gods goodness, if I turn away, I will be cut off. I have hope for everyone snow. Jesus came to save the world, and if he is in our heart, then we should be wanting him to carry on doing so through us, and bring the love of God and life of Christ to others, and speak the word given us to speak in the hope that they will hear and believe. I hope to see all of you all in heaven. I don't want anyone to go to hell. I don't think like that about others. Jesus wants to lift us out of the hell and death which we are in, in this world whilst we are under the power of darkness. And bring us to the light and life of God. Being in hell, is being darkness snow, away from God, and satan having control of our hearts. Jesus is the light, he is the way, the truth and the life. His way is the only way, and the way to the father is through him. But it's not just saying "I believe" it's being a doer of the word and not a hearer only. So, I hope for everyone. And I just speak and leave God to do the judging, as only be knows who's truly heard the truth. Well in a way it makes more sense that it was his life rather than his death. I really don't see why any all powerful being would need to crucify his son to save humans from his judgement. Makes no sense to me. Now, having someone use their life as an example, that makes sense. I don't remember, do you think Jesus was God like the Trinity group?
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Post by maryhig on Sept 27, 2017 0:20:03 GMT -5
Well, as you know snow, I see the cross differently to many others and I also believe differently to many of the mainstream denominations regarding the bible. Many say that Jesus came to this world to die on the cross, yet Jesus himself said that the reason he was born and came into this world is to bare witness to the truth. Jesus came to show us how to live before God it says in the bible that Jesus came to do and teach. So he came and lived what he preached and by doing so, he taught and showed us the truth, the true way to live to please God. He came as our perfect example to follow, and now that the way has been lived out perfectly, we have no excuse once we know. It also says in the bible that the they delivered Jesus up to be crucified because of envy, and that this was their hour, and the power of darkness. God is not darkness, he is light the power of darkness is from the devil, and Jesus also said that they are doing the work of their Father the devil by trying to kill him. But God knew what they would do to him, and he foretold it in the prophets, and Jesus was willing to suffer it to to bring us the truth. He bore our sins and was even crucified, yet he showed love, mercy and forgiveness in return, even asking the father to forgive them, he was full of love. And Jesus fulfilled the scriptures, and showed us that we are to endure whatever is set before us, live by the will of God, show love mercy and forgiveness to others, keep our faith and endure to the end, and he through the Spirit will help us and strengthen us to overcome. He will always be with those who truly follow him, those who deny themselves, and bare their cross partaking in the sufferings of christ to bare witness to the truth and please God. As for the cross, there are many verses in the bible that shows me it was wrong to crucify Jesus, and this one (below) actually said that God was not pleased at them doing so, so if God was not pleased, why would he be behind it? 1 Thessalonians 2 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, and are contrary to all men: We are not saved by the death of Jesus, we are saved by his life, and saved from this world of sin and death by the grace of God through faith. And we are to endure to the end to be eternally saved. Only God can judge who is and isn't saved, I don't call myself saved, And I certainly don't look down on anyone else and call them unsaved, who am I, a sinner to judge another? I'm being saved daily as I remain in Gods goodness, if I turn away, I will be cut off. I have hope for everyone snow. Jesus came to save the world, and if he is in our heart, then we should be wanting him to carry on doing so through us, and bring the love of God and life of Christ to others, and speak the word given us to speak in the hope that they will hear and believe. I hope to see all of you all in heaven. I don't want anyone to go to hell. I don't think like that about others. Jesus wants to lift us out of the hell and death which we are in, in this world whilst we are under the power of darkness. And bring us to the light and life of God. Being in hell, is being darkness snow, away from God, and satan having control of our hearts. Jesus is the light, he is the way, the truth and the life. His way is the only way, and the way to the father is through him. But it's not just saying "I believe" it's being a doer of the word and not a hearer only. So, I hope for everyone. And I just speak and leave God to do the judging, as only be knows who's truly heard the truth. Well in a way it makes more sense that it was his life rather than his death. I really don't see why any all powerful being would need to crucify his son to save humans from his judgement. Makes no sense to me. Now, having someone use their life as an example, that makes sense. I don't remember, do you think Jesus was God like the Trinity group? No i don't. Jesus isn't God, he is the son of God Jesus even calls God his God and his father and the disciples his brothers. He even said that the father is the only true God and that he sent him and that he didn't come to do his own will, but the will of his father that sent him. God didn't send Jesus to be a human sacrifice, he came to do the will of God and bare witness to the truth, he came as a living sacrifice, he sacrificed his whole life, in other words Jesus gave up living his life in the flesh, to live by the will of God, to show us how to live before God. And those who truly follow him do the same, we must be willing to become a living sacrifice, be willing to lay down our lives for others and to live by the will of God, so that the Spirit within our hearts can do his work and change us to be more like Jesus so that Christ through us can carry on saving others by the word of God. This is where satan is snow, he's in the hearts of people, causing destruction in the world and keeping us in darkness away from God. Jesus said, he is the Prince of this world, this is his domain, and I don't mean the natural world, but the ways of the world, and the lusts of the flesh. He was able to offer Jesus all the kingdoms of it. Because the power and the ways of the world belong to him, and he causes pain suffering and destruction in his path. God takes us away from that and those who belong to him have no interest in the ways of the world anymore. I'm not of this world anymore snow, and what I mean by that is the Holy Spirit has changed my heart so much, that building up in this world, and the power of it, and the love of it, means nothing to me, I'm content with what I have and I know I'm blessed, I don't need the world anymore. I put God first in my life and care more for others than I ever did. God through Christ is helping me to overcome my flesh daily by the power of the Spirit. My old life is gone, and I now live my life by the will of God, listening to the guidance of the Spirit. And by that I mean listening to my conscience and listening to him when I here the word of God in others or read something in the bible that I know is for me. I know when it's for me, because God pricks my heart and shows me. So, regarding the cross, I've also asked the following many times to many people, why would God need to come here to be a human sacrifice to himself to appease his own wrath? That makes no sense at all, and that's not what it says in the bible either. I believe that God sent Jesus to be a living sacrifice, to sacrifice his whole life to live by the will of God to show us how to live before God, and through him, through faith, by the grace of God those who belong to Christ are being saved from this world of sin and death. As I said, I believe very differently to many others, but I know in my heart it's the truth. And it makes complete sense to me, Jesus didn't die on the cross to save us, he bore his cross to save us, and he said those who come after him must be willing to deny themselves, take up their cross and follow him. And those not willing to do so, are not worthy of him. Paul said that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that perish, but Paul isn't talking about the natural cross, but the cross that Jesus bore. And it's foolishness to those that perish, because they don't want to live it, they love their life in the flesh and they are quite happy for Jesus to have done it all for them, but that's not the true way. They think that saying I believe is enough, no it isn't. God looks at the heart and he doesn't want to see the works of the flesh in his children, he wants to see the life of his Son. So we are to be doers of the word and not hearers only and live by the will of God and suffer whatever happens to us and keep our faith, and because we follow Jesus, we are to show the love of God and life of Christ in return, and if we are living by God's will and have faith, then God will strengthen us to bare whatever we have to go through in this life. I've lived in the world, and nothing this world can give me compares even a fraction to what I have now, it's more precious than anything of this world, I have the love of God and life of Christ in my heart. I'm truly blessed and I have never felt peace in my heart like I feel now.
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Post by snow on Sept 27, 2017 13:24:10 GMT -5
Well in a way it makes more sense that it was his life rather than his death. I really don't see why any all powerful being would need to crucify his son to save humans from his judgement. Makes no sense to me. Now, having someone use their life as an example, that makes sense. I don't remember, do you think Jesus was God like the Trinity group? No i don't. Jesus isn't God, he is the son of God Jesus even calls God his God and his father and the disciples his brothers. He even said that the father is the only true God and that he sent him and that he didn't come to do his own will, but the will of his father that sent him. God didn't send Jesus to be a human sacrifice, he came to do the will of God and bare witness to the truth, he came as a living sacrifice, he sacrificed his whole life, in other words Jesus gave up living his life in the flesh, to live by the will of God, to show us how to live before God. And those who truly follow him do the same, we must be willing to become a living sacrifice, be willing to lay down our lives for others and to live by the will of God, so that the Spirit within our hearts can do his work and change us to be more like Jesus so that Christ through us can carry on saving others by the word of God. This is where satan is snow, he's in the hearts of people, causing destruction in the world and keeping us in darkness away from God. Jesus said, he is the Prince of this world, this is his domain, and I don't mean the natural world, but the ways of the world, and the lusts of the flesh. He was able to offer Jesus all the kingdoms of it. Because the power and the ways of the world belong to him, and he causes pain suffering and destruction in his path. God takes us away from that and those who belong to him have no interest in the ways of the world anymore. I'm not of this world anymore snow, and what I mean by that is the Holy Spirit has changed my heart so much, that building up in this world, and the power of it, and the love of it, means nothing to me, I'm content with what I have and I know I'm blessed, I don't need the world anymore. I put God first in my life and care more for others than I ever did. God through Christ is helping me to overcome my flesh daily by the power of the Spirit. My old life is gone, and I now live my life by the will of God, listening to the guidance of the Spirit. And by that I mean listening to my conscience and listening to him when I here the word of God in others or read something in the bible that I know is for me. I know when it's for me, because God pricks my heart and shows me. So, regarding the cross, I've also asked the following many times to many people, why would God need to come here to be a human sacrifice to himself to appease his own wrath? That makes no sense at all, and that's not what it says in the bible either. I believe that God sent Jesus to be a living sacrifice, to sacrifice his whole life to live by the will of God to show us how to live before God, and through him, through faith, by the grace of God those who belong to Christ are being saved from this world of sin and death. As I said, I believe very differently to many others, but I know in my heart it's the truth. And it makes complete sense to me, Jesus didn't die on the cross to save us, he bore his cross to save us, and he said those who come after him must be willing to deny themselves, take up their cross and follow him. And those not willing to do so, are not worthy of him. Paul said that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that perish, but Paul isn't talking about the natural cross, but the cross that Jesus bore. And it's foolishness to those that perish, because they don't want to live it, they love their life in the flesh and they are quite happy for Jesus to have done it all for them, but that's not the true way. They think that saying I believe is enough, no it isn't. God looks at the heart and he doesn't want to see the works of the flesh in his children, he wants to see the life of his Son. So we are to be doers of the word and not hearers only and live by the will of God and suffer whatever happens to us and keep our faith, and because we follow Jesus, we are to show the love of God and life of Christ in return, and if we are living by God's will and have faith, then God will strengthen us to bare whatever we have to go through in this life. I've lived in the world, and nothing this world can give me compares even a fraction to what I have now, it's more precious than anything of this world, I have the love of God and life of Christ in my heart. I'm truly blessed and I have never felt peace in my heart like I feel now. Edward Cooney is the one that your group follows isn't it? Some of that has passed over into the 2x2's belief then. I was taught that Jesus was like our brother, not a God, but the son of God. I don't remember them preaching that Jesus didn't come to die for our sins though. So I guess it's a bit of this and a bit of that when he got excommunicated. He took some of what they believed but not all and made his own group.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 27, 2017 22:12:39 GMT -5
Report in UK Times newspaper today (11 Sept): " ONE IN THREE SCIENTISTS HAS FAITH IN GOD - Scientists are regarded as sceptical but only a quarter are atheists, figures suggest. Mori questioned more than 1000 people in professions including engineering, medical and technical research industries and found that 31% said they were religious and 60% said they were not. A more detailed breakdown showed that 25% were atheists, 21% were agnostic and 14% said that they were "spiritual but not religious". The breakdown also showed that 13% practised a religious faith while 18% said that they were "non-practising religious". Questioned further, 25% said that science and religion were contradictory and mutually exclusive, while 21% said that they were complimentary and that "one helps reinforce the other". Many more, 44%, agreed that science and religion "cannot be compared as they refer to different things" ...The Scientific and Medical Network said that the survey challenged the assumption that scientists were "hostile to religion and spirituality"." Here's an example of one of them (not necessarily in the survey but nevertheless a scientist): Dr Stephen Grocott - Fellow of the Royal Australian Chemical Institute - 'I am afraid that as a scientist I simply cannot say strongly enough that spontaneous generation of life is a chemical nonsense and therefore, I am left with no alternative but to believe that life was created.' (Quoted in John F Ashton - In Six Days: Why 50 Scientists choose to believe in Creation (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2001)) First of all we need to examine this study done concerning scientists as to their beliefs about religion. Scientists are by definition people, -just as any other group and the study is not unlike any other study done on a single group of people.
Rather than the "scientists" themselves, - it is the use "critical thinking" that is inherent in the scientific method by which information is gained that I feel able to trust.
I cannot trust information gained only by the dogma of religion which is ALWAYS based on myth!
I became aware that the ideas within religion were based on archaic myths developed by people because they wanted to KNOW why things happened in their world .
Not having access to the resources we have today or even the scientific method of gaining information, -they never-the-less needed a reason and created a scenario or story of supernatural beings and paranormal occurrences that would satisfy their need to know and have meaning for them.
So it isn't what the individual "scientist" who may or may not believe about religion or a god. It is the WAY, the METHOD of how that person goes about obtaining information that counts and whether one can trust the results.
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otto2
Junior Member
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Post by otto2 on Sept 28, 2017 4:34:19 GMT -5
Rather tha n the "scientists" themselves, - it is the use "critical thinking" that is inherent in the scientific method by which information is gained that I feel able to trust. So it isn't what the individual "scientist" who may or may not believe about religion or a god. It is the WAY, the METHOD of how that person goes about obtaining information that counts and whether one can trust the results.
Hmm,so the scientists themselves are not to be trusted in interpreting the results of their scientific method of obtaining information, but we as individuals are, is that it dmmich? Methinks we make ourselves god! Here's a few more scientists for you: Albert Einstein: "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts - the rest are details." Robert Jastrow, founder of NASA's Goddard Institute: "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." Alan Sandage (professor of physics at Johns Hopkins; discoverer of quasars): "I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organising principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing."
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Post by continuer on Sept 28, 2017 5:49:57 GMT -5
Nice one otto!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 8:40:33 GMT -5
Rather tha n the "scientists" themselves, - it is the use "critical thinking" that is inherent in the scientific method by which information is gained that I feel able to trust. So it isn't what the individual "scientist" who may or may not believe about religion or a god. It is the WAY, the METHOD of how that person goes about obtaining information that counts and whether one can trust the results.
Hmm,so the scientists themselves are not to be trusted in interpreting the results of their scientific method of obtaining information, but we as individuals are, is that it dmmich? Methinks we make ourselves god! Here's a few more scientists for you: Albert Einstein: "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts - the rest are details." Robert Jastrow, founder of NASA's Goddard Institute: "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." Alan Sandage (professor of physics at Johns Hopkins; discoverer of quasars): "I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organising principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing." I don't know for sure, such knowledge is too wonderful for me.
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Post by maryhig on Oct 1, 2017 9:03:45 GMT -5
No i don't. Jesus isn't God, he is the son of God Jesus even calls God his God and his father and the disciples his brothers. He even said that the father is the only true God and that he sent him and that he didn't come to do his own will, but the will of his father that sent him. God didn't send Jesus to be a human sacrifice, he came to do the will of God and bare witness to the truth, he came as a living sacrifice, he sacrificed his whole life, in other words Jesus gave up living his life in the flesh, to live by the will of God, to show us how to live before God. And those who truly follow him do the same, we must be willing to become a living sacrifice, be willing to lay down our lives for others and to live by the will of God, so that the Spirit within our hearts can do his work and change us to be more like Jesus so that Christ through us can carry on saving others by the word of God. This is where satan is snow, he's in the hearts of people, causing destruction in the world and keeping us in darkness away from God. Jesus said, he is the Prince of this world, this is his domain, and I don't mean the natural world, but the ways of the world, and the lusts of the flesh. He was able to offer Jesus all the kingdoms of it. Because the power and the ways of the world belong to him, and he causes pain suffering and destruction in his path. God takes us away from that and those who belong to him have no interest in the ways of the world anymore. I'm not of this world anymore snow, and what I mean by that is the Holy Spirit has changed my heart so much, that building up in this world, and the power of it, and the love of it, means nothing to me, I'm content with what I have and I know I'm blessed, I don't need the world anymore. I put God first in my life and care more for others than I ever did. God through Christ is helping me to overcome my flesh daily by the power of the Spirit. My old life is gone, and I now live my life by the will of God, listening to the guidance of the Spirit. And by that I mean listening to my conscience and listening to him when I here the word of God in others or read something in the bible that I know is for me. I know when it's for me, because God pricks my heart and shows me. So, regarding the cross, I've also asked the following many times to many people, why would God need to come here to be a human sacrifice to himself to appease his own wrath? That makes no sense at all, and that's not what it says in the bible either. I believe that God sent Jesus to be a living sacrifice, to sacrifice his whole life to live by the will of God to show us how to live before God, and through him, through faith, by the grace of God those who belong to Christ are being saved from this world of sin and death. As I said, I believe very differently to many others, but I know in my heart it's the truth. And it makes complete sense to me, Jesus didn't die on the cross to save us, he bore his cross to save us, and he said those who come after him must be willing to deny themselves, take up their cross and follow him. And those not willing to do so, are not worthy of him. Paul said that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that perish, but Paul isn't talking about the natural cross, but the cross that Jesus bore. And it's foolishness to those that perish, because they don't want to live it, they love their life in the flesh and they are quite happy for Jesus to have done it all for them, but that's not the true way. They think that saying I believe is enough, no it isn't. God looks at the heart and he doesn't want to see the works of the flesh in his children, he wants to see the life of his Son. So we are to be doers of the word and not hearers only and live by the will of God and suffer whatever happens to us and keep our faith, and because we follow Jesus, we are to show the love of God and life of Christ in return, and if we are living by God's will and have faith, then God will strengthen us to bare whatever we have to go through in this life. I've lived in the world, and nothing this world can give me compares even a fraction to what I have now, it's more precious than anything of this world, I have the love of God and life of Christ in my heart. I'm truly blessed and I have never felt peace in my heart like I feel now. Edward Cooney is the one that your group follows isn't it? Some of that has passed over into the 2x2's belief then. I was taught that Jesus was like our brother, not a God, but the son of God. I don't remember them preaching that Jesus didn't come to die for our sins though. So I guess it's a bit of this and a bit of that when he got excommunicated. He took some of what they believed but not all and made his own group. No snow, we don't follow Edward Cooney, we follow Jesus, Edward, like all those born of God was a vessel that God through Christ used to do his work through. In other words when we see Christ in others, then we know that God is working in their hearts by the power of the Spirit. Some denominations say that Jesus has done it all for them, but how can others see the life of Christ in us, if we love ourselves and our lives in the flesh before God? Those who truly love God will want to please God and live by God's will, we don't say that Christ has done it for us and God doesn't see our sins, on the contrary, those born of God have more responsibility to live right, and Jesus showed us how to live right before God. Paul said that all will be judged on what we do whether it be good or bad. And Christ by his life judges us, because he has lived the truth and loved and forgiven and shown mercy and healed the hearts of many who love him, opened the eyes and ears of the deaf and blind who are no longer in darkness, they are those who truly believed in him, and those who now believe and are willing to repent, deny themselves and live by the will of God, will receive the Holy Spirit in Gods time. The disciples had to believe, and obey Jesus before that were baptised of the Spirit, and it's still the same today. God can't work on a hard heart that loves flesh, he needs soft ground to plant the seed which is Christ, a soft heart willing to love him and want to do his will, willing to love others, those ready to do the works of God. That's how you know those born of God, they will be producing the fruits of the Spirit and the life Christ will be lived out, this is the poured out life. Our lives going and decreasing and the life of Christ increasing within our hearts and through us by the power of the Spirit, as we live by the will and word of God, we walk in the Spirit and pour out the life of Christ and live it out. And as Christ casts out our devils we will grow in God and through progressive revelation and be enlightened and receive understanding and wisdom through Christ. And Jesus did die for our sins, but not on a wooden cross, he was dead to his flesh and alive in God. And he came saving through the gospel by the word of God, quickened by the Spirit he began to preach the gospel. Not just by teaching, but by doing and teaching, Jesus did what he taught, and we too are to be doers of the word and not hearers only. So we heard the gospel through Edward, but we follow Jesus and his teachings, his way is the way. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and no one's comes to the father except through him. It's not through Edward Cooney, it's not though William irvine, it's not through catholicism or protestantism or though any other ism or denomination, it's just through Jesus, through believing in him and truly following him and obeying Jesus and living by the word God, through faith, by the grace of God always being ready to do the will of God when needed, baring witness to the truth, through Christ Jesus. These are those who are the true children of the living God and we are one in Spirit and in truth, truly worshipping our father in heaven. By the power of God loving even those who hate us and having hope for everyone.
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Post by snow on Oct 1, 2017 16:11:19 GMT -5
Edward Cooney is the one that your group follows isn't it? Some of that has passed over into the 2x2's belief then. I was taught that Jesus was like our brother, not a God, but the son of God. I don't remember them preaching that Jesus didn't come to die for our sins though. So I guess it's a bit of this and a bit of that when he got excommunicated. He took some of what they believed but not all and made his own group. No snow, we don't follow Edward Cooney, we follow Jesus, Edward, like all those born of God was a vessel that God through Christ used to do his work through. In other words when we see Christ in others, then we know that God is working in their hearts by the power of the Spirit. Some denominations say that Jesus has done it all for them, but how can others see the life of Christ in us, if we love ourselves and our lives in the flesh before God? Those who truly love God will want to please God and live by God's will, we don't say that Christ has done it for us and God doesn't see our sins, on the contrary, those born of God have more responsibility to live right, and Jesus showed us how to live right before God. Paul said that all will be judged on what we do whether it be good or bad. And Christ by his life judges us, because he has lived the truth and loved and forgiven and shown mercy and healed the hearts of many who love him, opened the eyes and ears of the deaf and blind who are no longer in darkness, they are those who truly believed in him, and those who now believe and are willing to repent, deny themselves and live by the will of God, will receive the Holy Spirit in Gods time. The disciples had to believe, and obey Jesus before that were baptised of the Spirit, and it's still the same today. God can't work on a hard heart that loves flesh, he needs soft ground to plant the seed which is Christ, a soft heart willing to love him and want to do his will, willing to love others, those ready to do the works of God. That's how you know those born of God, they will be producing the fruits of the Spirit and the life Christ will be lived out, this is the poured out life. Our lives going and decreasing and the life of Christ increasing within our hearts and through us by the power of the Spirit, as we live by the will and word of God, we walk in the Spirit and pour out the life of Christ and live it out. And as Christ casts out our devils we will grow in God and through progressive revelation and be enlightened and receive understanding and wisdom through Christ. And Jesus did die for our sins, but not on a wooden cross, he was dead to his flesh and alive in God. And he came saving through the gospel by the word of God, quickened by the Spirit he began to preach the gospel. Not just by teaching, but by doing and teaching, Jesus did what he taught, and we too are to be doers of the word and not hearers only. So we heard the gospel through Edward, but we follow Jesus and his teachings, his way is the way. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and no one's comes to the father except through him. It's not through Edward Cooney, it's not though William irvine, it's not through catholicism or protestantism or though any other ism or denomination, it's just through Jesus, through believing in him and truly following him and obeying Jesus and living by the word God, through faith, by the grace of God always being ready to do the will of God when needed, baring witness to the truth, through Christ Jesus. These are those who are the true children of the living God and we are one in Spirit and in truth, truly worshipping our father in heaven. By the power of God loving even those who hate us and having hope for everyone. I will never understand why people don't think God wants us to love ourselves just the way he made us. Why would he want us to ignore the bodies he made for us and how he made us? Religions have tried to get people to hate themselves, think they are nothing but filthy sinners. I think that philosophy is not healthy and I can't see how it could be right in any way.
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Post by maryhig on Oct 1, 2017 23:02:31 GMT -5
No snow, we don't follow Edward Cooney, we follow Jesus, Edward, like all those born of God was a vessel that God through Christ used to do his work through. In other words when we see Christ in others, then we know that God is working in their hearts by the power of the Spirit. Some denominations say that Jesus has done it all for them, but how can others see the life of Christ in us, if we love ourselves and our lives in the flesh before God? Those who truly love God will want to please God and live by God's will, we don't say that Christ has done it for us and God doesn't see our sins, on the contrary, those born of God have more responsibility to live right, and Jesus showed us how to live right before God. Paul said that all will be judged on what we do whether it be good or bad. And Christ by his life judges us, because he has lived the truth and loved and forgiven and shown mercy and healed the hearts of many who love him, opened the eyes and ears of the deaf and blind who are no longer in darkness, they are those who truly believed in him, and those who now believe and are willing to repent, deny themselves and live by the will of God, will receive the Holy Spirit in Gods time. The disciples had to believe, and obey Jesus before that were baptised of the Spirit, and it's still the same today. God can't work on a hard heart that loves flesh, he needs soft ground to plant the seed which is Christ, a soft heart willing to love him and want to do his will, willing to love others, those ready to do the works of God. That's how you know those born of God, they will be producing the fruits of the Spirit and the life Christ will be lived out, this is the poured out life. Our lives going and decreasing and the life of Christ increasing within our hearts and through us by the power of the Spirit, as we live by the will and word of God, we walk in the Spirit and pour out the life of Christ and live it out. And as Christ casts out our devils we will grow in God and through progressive revelation and be enlightened and receive understanding and wisdom through Christ. And Jesus did die for our sins, but not on a wooden cross, he was dead to his flesh and alive in God. And he came saving through the gospel by the word of God, quickened by the Spirit he began to preach the gospel. Not just by teaching, but by doing and teaching, Jesus did what he taught, and we too are to be doers of the word and not hearers only. So we heard the gospel through Edward, but we follow Jesus and his teachings, his way is the way. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and no one's comes to the father except through him. It's not through Edward Cooney, it's not though William irvine, it's not through catholicism or protestantism or though any other ism or denomination, it's just through Jesus, through believing in him and truly following him and obeying Jesus and living by the word God, through faith, by the grace of God always being ready to do the will of God when needed, baring witness to the truth, through Christ Jesus. These are those who are the true children of the living God and we are one in Spirit and in truth, truly worshipping our father in heaven. By the power of God loving even those who hate us and having hope for everyone. I will never understand why people don't think God wants us to love ourselves just the way he made us. Why would he want us to ignore the bodies he made for us and how he made us? Religions have tried to get people to hate themselves, think they are nothing but filthy sinners. I think that philosophy is not healthy and I can't see how it could be right in any way. That's the biggest problem though snow, most people love themselves first and foremost. And love putting themselves first. It's, "I'm good, there's nothing wrong with me". But when the Spirit enters into our heart, he shows us what we are really like. I didn't think I was too bad, my mum had taught me about God, I said my prayers, I used to think to myself that I was quite good. And because my mum had told me about God that stopped me going too far in this world, and I saw myself as ok, and I'm not as bad as others. But once the Spirit entered my heart, the light went on. And when a light goes on in a dark place, not only do you see the way and how to get through safely, but you also see the dirt. And I saw that although I did do things that were good to do, I also did many things that weren't so good either. and these things are what Christ by the Spirit helps us to clean out and overcome. They are the works of the flesh. Here are some of them, pointed out by Paul. Galatians 5 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like And here is Romans 1 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: There are many more, and we all have some of these within us, and the wrong that is within our hearts is what Christ helps to overcome, by the power of the Spirit, he is the light he shows us the way, and once he is made manifest in our heart through the Spirit we are shown our wrong too. I saw myself for real, satan covers us in a cloke of darkness, and we don't see a lot of what we are like. We just go through this life thinking we are ok. For instance, when I was younger, before I truly knew God, my husband and I decided to go on our first holiday abroad to majorca. We saved up and paid £1000 for a week in a posh hotel by the beach, my mum, although she didn't agree with me spending excessive amounts on holidays, helped me and watched the children for me. So off I went, had a great time, then came home, I had £300 left, and my husband and I put it straight in the bank toward our next holiday. A couple of weeks after I came home, my brother was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and died a few weeks later aged just 34. I was beside myself with grief, but through it God also showed me some of what I was really like. My mum was upset and wasn't coping too well, and my family were going to be coming over here from Ireland, and I went to help her, and clean and get things ready for them coming. So I started cleaning and walked into her bedroom, now here in the UK it gets very cold in the winter, many times its below freezing, and as I cleaned I looked down and my mum had old floorboards on the floor, with gaps in them, which would have been freezing in the winter, she didn't have much money as she lived on her own since my dad left. And I thought that not only had I been on a luxury holiday, but I had also saved £300 ready for the next one, and failed to see the need in my own mother, who not only put her children before herself, but would give me her last if I needed help. God started showing me what I was really like! Out came the money from the bank and down went the carpet, and with my brothers and sisters we helped sort her house out. But I thought I was ok, no I wasn't, I didn't even see the need in my own mother! And from then, God has been showing me the real me. I was vain, selfish, loved to get drunk and party, i cared about me first, I loved spending on myself buying the best of things, i used to get jealous of others, Backbite, and many other things, yet I thought I was good on the whole, but really I wasn't. God has changed me, he's made me a better person, he's completely changed my heart. In the bible Jesus shows us the way, and once we are born of God, the Holy Spirit helps us overcome sin and the lusts of the flesh and he helps us to live in the way, the way that Jesus showed us. Snow, think of what the world would be like If we all followed Jesus and lived how he taught us to? Maybe you could read Matthew 5 and 6 if you ever get the chance, can you imagine if we lived and loved in the way Jesus taught? If we all truly followed Jesus, then this world would be a totally different place.
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Post by rational on Oct 2, 2017 11:06:18 GMT -5
I will never understand why people don't think God wants us to love ourselves just the way he made us. Why would he want us to ignore the bodies he made for us and how he made us? Religions have tried to get people to hate themselves, think they are nothing but filthy sinners. I think that philosophy is not healthy and I can't see how it could be right in any way. There are basic biological drives (biological imperatives) that are required to perpetuate the species. It is these drives that religions have used to control the behavior of others. If it is a sin to do "A" and you do "A" you can look forward to spending eternity in hell or seeking forgiven through the means stated by the religion. Of the recognized imperatives, survival, territorialism, competition, reproduction, quality of life-seeking, and group forming, reproduction and the activities relating to sexual activity are most often used for control. It is considered a sinful activity unless done in the manner proscribed by the religion. The term 'missionary position' was, for some religions for a long time, the only acceptable way to to engage in coitus. Food restrictions and group forming are also frequently subjected to religious control. If you can convince people they are nothing without god, that their nature is manifest by adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful, etc., in other words the scum of the earth, and you provide the promise to free them from this type of behavior you effectively control them. And, looking at the wealth of religions, it is easy to see the motive. No one knows what bug Paul had up his butt to lash out against all of humanity except the few who were following Jesus but it certainly went a long way to create an "us vs. them" situation which certainly caused a lot of deaths. The other question would have to be how a god would create entities that displayed such base tendencies especially after stating that man was created in the image of god.
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Post by snow on Oct 2, 2017 13:14:54 GMT -5
I will never understand why people don't think God wants us to love ourselves just the way he made us. Why would he want us to ignore the bodies he made for us and how he made us? Religions have tried to get people to hate themselves, think they are nothing but filthy sinners. I think that philosophy is not healthy and I can't see how it could be right in any way. That's the biggest problem though snow, most people love themselves first and foremost. And love putting themselves first. It's, "I'm good, there's nothing wrong with me". But when the Spirit enters into our heart, he shows us what we are really like. I didn't think I was too bad, my mum had taught me about God, I said my prayers, I used to think to myself that I was quite good. And because my mum had told me about God that stopped me going too far in this world, and I saw myself as ok, and I'm not as bad as others. But once the Spirit entered my heart, the light went on. And when a light goes on in a dark place, not only do you see the way and how to get through safely, but you also see the dirt. And I saw that although I did do things that were good to do, I also did many things that weren't so good either. and these things are what Christ by the Spirit helps us to clean out and overcome. They are the works of the flesh. Here are some of them, pointed out by Paul. Galatians 5 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like And here is Romans 1 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: There are many more, and we all have some of these within us, and the wrong that is within our hearts is what Christ helps to overcome, by the power of the Spirit, he is the light he shows us the way, and once he is made manifest in our heart through the Spirit we are shown our wrong too. I saw myself for real, satan covers us in a cloke of darkness, and we don't see a lot of what we are like. We just go through this life thinking we are ok. For instance, when I was younger, before I truly knew God, my husband and I decided to go on our first holiday abroad to majorca. We saved up and paid £1000 for a week in a posh hotel by the beach, my mum, although she didn't agree with me spending excessive amounts on holidays, helped me and watched the children for me. So off I went, had a great time, then came home, I had £300 left, and my husband and I put it straight in the bank toward our next holiday. A couple of weeks after I came home, my brother was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and died a few weeks later aged just 34. I was beside myself with grief, but through it God also showed me some of what I was really like. My mum was upset and wasn't coping too well, and my family were going to be coming over here from Ireland, and I went to help her, and clean and get things ready for them coming. So I started cleaning and walked into her bedroom, now here in the UK it gets very cold in the winter, many times its below freezing, and as I cleaned I looked down and my mum had old floorboards on the floor, with gaps in them, which would have been freezing in the winter, she didn't have much money as she lived on her own since my dad left. And I thought that not only had I been on a luxury holiday, but I had also saved £300 ready for the next one, and failed to see the need in my own mother, who not only put her children before herself, but would give me her last if I needed help. God started showing me what I was really like! Out came the money from the bank and down went the carpet, and with my brothers and sisters we helped sort her house out. But I thought I was ok, no I wasn't, I didn't even see the need in my own mother! And from then, God has been showing me the real me. I was vain, selfish, loved to get drunk and party, i cared about me first, I loved spending on myself buying the best of things, i used to get jealous of others, Backbite, and many other things, yet I thought I was good on the whole, but really I wasn't. God has changed me, he's made me a better person, he's completely changed my heart. In the bible Jesus shows us the way, and once we are born of God, the Holy Spirit helps us overcome sin and the lusts of the flesh and he helps us to live in the way, the way that Jesus showed us. Snow, think of what the world would be like If we all followed Jesus and lived how he taught us to? Maybe you could read Matthew 5 and 6 if you ever get the chance, can you imagine if we lived and loved in the way Jesus taught? If we all truly followed Jesus, then this world would be a totally different place. If you cherry pick only the good things that Jesus said, yes the world might well be a better place. If people followed the golden rule that predates Christ it just might be a better place. However, I would never agree that the bible and it's various stories are a moral guideline for anyone most of the time. I like the humanitarian version where we do good and try to do no harm without all the religious propaganda that makes us see ourselves as sinners and other unhealthy attitudes towards ourselves. I see very little value to Christianity or Islam or Judaism as a moral guideline. There are definitely better ones imo. I'm sorry you went through such hard times. I am also sorry to hear that you don't feel that giving yourself a nice holiday is a good thing to do. Taking anything to extremes seems unhealthy.
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Post by snow on Oct 2, 2017 13:18:04 GMT -5
I will never understand why people don't think God wants us to love ourselves just the way he made us. Why would he want us to ignore the bodies he made for us and how he made us? Religions have tried to get people to hate themselves, think they are nothing but filthy sinners. I think that philosophy is not healthy and I can't see how it could be right in any way. There are basic biological drives (biological imperatives) that are required to perpetuate the species. It is these drives that religions have used to control the behavior of others. If it is a sin to do "A" and you do "A" you can look forward to spending eternity in hell or seeking forgiven through the means stated by the religion. Of the recognized imperatives, survival, territorialism, competition, reproduction, quality of life-seeking, and group forming, reproduction and the activities relating to sexual activity are most often used for control. It is considered a sinful activity unless done in the manner proscribed by the religion. The term 'missionary position' was, for some religions for a long time, the only acceptable way to to engage in coitus. Food restrictions and group forming are also frequently subjected to religious control. If you can convince people they are nothing without god, that their nature is manifest by adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful, etc., in other words the scum of the earth, and you provide the promise to free them from this type of behavior you effectively control them. And, looking at the wealth of religions, it is easy to see the motive. No one knows what bug Paul had up his butt to lash out against all of humanity except the few who were following Jesus but it certainly went a long way to create an "us vs. them" situation which certainly caused a lot of deaths. The other question would have to be how a god would create entities that displayed such base tendencies especially after stating that man was created in the image of god. Yes, I agree. There is a lot of power in telling people that the most natural part of our existence is actually filthy and a sin unless it's done under very rigid guidelines. Religious guidelines. Paul was a nutcase imo. There was no Christianity before Paul, at least nothing that we would recognize as the Christianity of today.
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