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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 19, 2017 9:59:30 GMT -5
Nate, I have not seen a copy of this letter, and I'd like to read it, and also post it on TTT. I have G. Walker's 1942 letter to Selective Service, but it doesnt mention Wm Irvine or the Faith Mission, does not give dates of 1898-1900, and GW wrote it: "for the purpose of enabling the Local Draft Boards to correctly classify Ministers of this Church throughout the United States who are subject to the Selective Service Laws" (not to help the professing men). Nate, I would greatly appreciate it if you could email a scanned copy of this other letter you say you have to: truth@tellingthetruth.info so I can make it available to everyone. Thanx, CK 1942 Letter image: www.tellingthetruth.info/plogger/index.php?level=picture&id=1195 (click next to see pages 2 and 3) 1942 Letter transcript: www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_early/walkergeo.php#SelectiveExcerpt: "We take this opportunity to state that during the closing years of the last century and the first years of this century a number of people in the British Isles and in America were exercised in heart and mind, through their study of the Scriptures, in regard to the methods of preaching and worship in the several churches of which they were then members. They were deeply concerned about spiritual things, and became fully convinced that there should be a return to the methods and purposes taught and carried out by Christ and His first disciples. This conviction led to frequent earnest conversations and studies on the subject, which in turn led to religious meetings, and in due time a number of these people went forth to devote their lives to the preaching of the Gospel according to the teaching and example of Christ as given in the New Testament, i.e., "two by two" and without salary or making appeals for financial assistance, putting implicit trust in God and His promise that as they "sought first the Kingdom of God" their natural needs of food and raiment "would be added to them". "As a result of this step, many people expressed their desire to be in fellowship with such preachers and this led to regular gatherings together of small assemblies in homes for worship and study of God's word. The reason for meeting in homes was primarily because it is scriptural, the Christians during the first centuries of the Christian era met regularly for worship in homes, which fact is also borne out and supported by church history. Thus after serious consideration, the leaders were confident that in their efforts to follow the early Christians they should form church gatherings in homes; therefore no church property or real estate has been acquired by purchase or otherwise, and for this reason incorporation and registration under a denominational name has not been necessary. The meetings continue to the present time in homes and are under the guidance of local Elders. Baptism by immersion and the weekly observance of the Lord's Supper is taught and practiced."
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Post by nathan on Aug 19, 2017 19:07:21 GMT -5
1) Chuck wrote: Does your bible say God is Spirit Nathan?. ~~ Nathan: Yes, God the Father is a Spirit. God/Christ is a Spirit who became a Male Human Being to Redeem us and died for our sins on Calvary's Cross as the Spotless Lamb of God before God the Father.
The Holy Spirit is a Spirit, whom Jesus called Him a He. Jesus said in John 16:7-15 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. ~~ A person can't take ONE verse in the Bible and say that is ALL to it. We have to KNOW and UNDERSTAND the Bible to have a complete picture of things. curlywurlysammagee said: drive.google.com/file/d/1vwB1jcMjveFL-IYPVPpDISKecuNhkp-2/view Here's some notes the FBI made on Fwank Stranges. Page 7 is quite interesting. Of course, Nathan would know all this already as he has been doing his research since Adam wore nappies.Nathan B: Wow! people should READ more carefully! on FBI file..... Frank Stranges denied stating or conveying impression on any occasions that he was associate with the FBI. Stranges described himself Former Private investigator! Date 10/24/1960 The agent said he must have misunderstood or misinterpreted the statement made by Dr. Frank Stranges Orally at the meeting and that probably Dr. Frank had merely said that he was a Former Special investigator and NOT a former Special agent of the FBI..... The FBI dropped the charge against Dr. Frank Stranges. Dr. Frank Stranges is the President of the International Evangelist Crusaders, Inc. Former Vice president of Baltimore Bible School in Maryland, and the Church School of Theology in New Hansphire where he was awarded the degree of DOCTOR! of Divinity in 1956. 7/11/21 Annan said: Hey Nathan!You keep saying that in the beginning that the workers preached the trinity. Then you say the younger workers started preaching non-trinity. Those must have been the workers that visited my parents' home, as I was taught that the trinity was a pagan catholic belief.So... I am asking you to show me proof of what you claim. Show me sermons where the early workers taught the trinity. NOT SCRIPTURE! Show me sermons where the younger workers preached non-trinity. I apologize if you posted this before. ~~ NathanB: John Long's (2x2 worker from 1898-1907) Journal in 1899 wrote: William Irvine's Doctrines & Leaderships: "Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he [Wm Irvine] was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man.He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9.He taught that every saved soul is indwelt by the Spirit of Christ; and that the life of Jesus, is the pattern for everyone to imitate and follow; and that the life of forsaking all for Christ's sake was the best to live.2) Jack Carroll ( ex-overseer in Oregon, USA) - Sidney, Manitoba Convention - Monday Evening, November 9, 1914 "God is a trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Man is a trinity: body, soul, and spirit." 3) George Walker (1899 worker) www.trutharchive.net/george-walker---mccordsville-indiana---september-6-1975 You can't separate between the three persons in the Trinity because they are all one. They are used in this language to help our finite minds to understand Christ, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit suggests what a mother does for her children. He says, "When they put me on the cross, I will send the Holy Spirit, and He will be in you, teaching you, comforting you, and will be all that a mother could be to you. He can be closer to you than I can be in the flesh." God has made us in three parts, too. We say it is the body, soul, and the spirit. The Bible says sanctify spirit, soul, and body. The spirit is the part that God breathed in. You can't separate them.4) Sam Charlton - The Word of God - Tacoma, Washington - 1958God is a trinity and man is a trinity - body, soul, and spirit. It has been very wisely planned by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Heaven. They had a private conference and the subject was, “Let us create man in Our image and in Our Likeness.”5) Leslie White (ex-overseer from Colorado, USA) 1st Oak Lodge Convention - Sunday morning, 2005"One of the great mysteries that we have in our country and some of our Friends have been silly enough to have got involved in it, and that is that some try to explain the Trinity - The Father, Son and Holy Ghost, nobody can explain or understand that; none of us can understand that. No one can really, fully understand that, but we believe in those three and that they are one, but He is with God. He is God; He's not man; He's not an Angel; He's God-kind. He's like His Father; He's the Son. Just like a natural boy is like his dad, but he's not the dad, but he's got those qualities. He's God the Son; God the Father and God the Holy Ghost. "6) Elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee... "Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven.Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament. These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living."If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"? ~~ Nathan B: Dan Hilton was a senior worker, a well respected Bible student in Washington State and California, USA. He was on Calf. and Washington State staff for many years... This is what Dan Hilton preached/taught for many years when I was in living in Washington State. The workers on the staff just passed on what they heard from the Senior workers had taught them through the years without doing a serious study themselves...Dan HiltonThe word Trinity is not found in the Bible. It is a Catholic doctrine that wasn't even mentioned by the early Christians. It wasn't heard of until the second century.[Washington 1985]Dan HiltonBeware of the devilish doctrine of the Trinity.[Manhattan MT Conv 1996]Who is Jesus Christ??? -- According to Willis Propp! ex-overseer in Alberta, CanadaApril 12, 1992Question from Dale - OK, may I ask you this question tonight? Now, that is one of the basic fundamentals that you believe that we have to understand, because there are other Jesus' and if we believe that “Jesus was God” that would be incorrect?The reply from Willis Propp, (“Head Worker” of the Province of Alberta, Canada) in his own words.Reply from Willis - The Catholics think they're one person, like the rosary prayer is holy Mary mother of God, holy Mary mother of God, and that is wrong because Jesus is not God. Jesus was the Son of God. John 8 says, I proceeded forth and came from God, I proceeded forth from God so He was the only begotten Son of the Father. He wasn't God, He was the Son of God.Reply from Willis - Yes, if you look at the original of John 1:1 it says he was a god. He was divine. You cannot reconcile a father and a son as one person, you can’t do that.- - -COMMENT- - -Comment: Son of God – son of manMr. Propp states “He (Jesus) wasn't God, He was the Son of God.”So, let us reason together: If a man has a son, is that son any less human than his father? NO! If the Father (who is God) has a Son, is that Son any less God than His Father? NO!Another Comment: God plus a god?Mr. Propp states, “…if you look at the original of John 1:1, it says he was a god.”1) Moline wrote: Hi Nathan, We as earthly beings find this difficult to comprehend however the bible makes it clear. I have never have heard a worker handle the Deity of Christ well, yet in the early days of the movement, Eddie Cooney and William Irvine clearly believed in a Triune God. It seems that over the years, one would assume, because of a LACK of sound doctrinal teaching, many basics of the scripture are NOT well understood by the Current 2x2s leaderships and the friends. 2) Dec 14, 2019 Gill said: If I understand correctly, the first workers to leave Ireland/England/Scotland etc. were mostly trinitarian. When did this change? Was there a desire to be different from the world and they saw this anti-trinitarian stance as a way to be different? Did Eldon Tenniswood move the west coast towards a more anti-trinitarian position? 3) RossB wrote: It's clear from the early hymns (in their Go Preachers' Hymnbook) that the early workers believed in a triune God. If you track this through to 1951 (Hymns Old and New update) they clearly still believed in a triune God. This seemed to change with Eldon Tenniswood and companies between the 1951 and 1987 hymnbook when clearly different doctrine (and in my view false doctrine) set in amongst the senior workers. In this period, the power base for the 2x2's shifted from England to the US - hence the latest and current hymnbook was produced in CA. The tombstone of Sam Jones, the most prolific hymnwriter in the 2x2's refers to the line in one of his hymns "....the God who died for me". Clearly, a belief that the Son was God. Edward Cooney was clearly not anti-trinitarian. He would have hardly agreed to the inclusion of the following verse of the hymn (#71) "Our blest redeemer, ere he breathed..." in the Go-Preachers hymnbook if he didn't believe in a triune God. O praise the Father; praise the Son: Blest Spirit, praise to Thee: All praise to God, the three in One, The One in Thee. Likewise, the hymn "When I survey the wondrous cross..." refers to Christ my God - in the Go Preachers hymnbook (and the 1951 O&N but subsequently changed in 1987). Furthermore, in 1952, just eight years before he died, Edward Cooney wrote "now will conclude by greeting all who desire to be children of God in the conceit of our hearts saying: "I am of Christ," for Jesus never said "I am of Christ," but claimed to be the Son of God. He always claimed that God was his Father; and that although he was the mighty God, his Father was mightier and greater than he." (my emphasis added in bold). Source: Patricia Roberts' book Selected Letters Hymns and Poems of Edward Cooney 1867-1960 Edward Cooney is clearly not going to write very specific words about Jesus being mighty God, if he did not believe it. Based on his writings, he was very clear in what he believed. A strong theme through his writings is that redemption/atonement for our sins is only available through Christ's blood that was shed on Calvary and eternal life through His resurrection. 4) NathanB wrote: Amen, Ross! what most of the current workers and friends don't UNDERSTAND is, the Sunday Morning meetings coming together is to WORSHIP the Godhead/TRINITY or the Triune God= Father, Christ and Holy Spirit. When the early days workers set up the Sunday morning meetings for themselves and the friends in 1903, most of them were Trinitarians believers. So, how can they PREACH anti-Trinity. Anti Christ is NOT God doctrine when the current workers and friends still KEEP the TRINITY or TRIUNE Sunday morning WORSHIP gathering from the early days workers?Amir Tsarfati: Jesus Christ the Immanuel. Immanue means with us and El is God.www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2e2m-iedF8&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=16&t=0s100 verses If You've Seen Me/Jesus You've Seen God The Father
www.openbible.info/topics/if_youve_seen_me_youve_seen_the_father Amir Tsarfati: Jesus the Christ in the Old Testamentwww.youtube.com/watch?v=bHf-keOlUHc&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=22&t=0sAmir Tsarfati: The Passover Lamb/Christ God in the Old Testament www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXbkJKQFovg&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=20&t=0sAmir Tsarfati: Jesus and the Christ in New Testament Passover Lamb of Godwww.youtube.com/watch?v=jWDUzjrU5iM&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=21&t=0sThe 18 Missing years of Jesus Christ...
Note that the information presented in this article is acquired from various sources - not strictly biblical manuscripts. The stories have been passed down through traditional documents and can not be proved as accurate. From history we learn that he was previously known as Joseph de Marmore as he lived in Marmorica in Egypt before he moved to Arimathea. There is speculation that Joseph of Arimathea, or Joseph of Glastonbury as he later became known, was the uncle of Mary, mother of Jesus. The relationship to Mary made him a Great Uncle of Jesus. From this, we may presume that he was an elderly man at the time of the crucifixion. We have few verifiable details about Joseph except that he was he was quite wealthy. Some claim that Joseph of Arimathea was a merchant in metals and took young Jesus with him on his business trips to England, India, and even to South America. It is a well documented fact that Britain led the world at this time with its tin mining. Joseph of Arimathea was referred to by the Romans as 'Nobilis Decurio' or Minister of Mines to the Roman Government. Joseph of Arimathea was not one of the original 12 apostles, but he was a disciple of Jesus and was an important man in his own right. He is mentioned in all four gospels (Matthew: 27:57-60; Mark 15:43-46; Luke 23:50-55; John 19:38-42). He was a high counselor, a voting member of the Sanhedrin2 which officially wanted Jesus condemned to death. We may speculate that he had not consented to, or agreed with, the decision to push Pontius Pilate to impose the death penalty upon Jesus. In spite of his relationship with Jesus, his loyalty to Him was largely kept secret (John 19:38). Jesus was obviously unpopular with the elders of the church, and to outwardly support Him did not bring favor in their eyes (John 19:38). www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/joseph-of-arimathea-faq.htmIsraeli Jew makes the most amazing discovery ( Jesus is the Messiah/God the Christ)! www.youtube.com/watch?v=95XaL6_stBsAwesome Bible Lands Jerusalem where Jesus born and lived Unveiled www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWLFF5VZl4c4F-iJQQU2qSHu81zNZyu1LIsrael Unveiledwww.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWLFF5VZl4c6uVeLm-IMQ91D0DwS7rrqkMany Amazing of 19 Videos of Jordan river, the Red Sea, Sea of Galileewww.youtube.com/watch?v=f4QZjQcwClc&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c6uVeLm-IMQ91D0DwS7rrqk Questions and Answers by Amir Tsarfati www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM8xETmA7vg&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c4-mIMLxLCK81G1mCmnmrBwAmir Tsarfati: The Book of Lifewww.youtube.com/watch?v=WnuNJ3m2UHY&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=17&t=0sAmir Tsarfati: The Fullness of the Gentileswww.youtube.com/watch?v=AHdm2bOfaR8&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=8&t=0sAmir Tsarfati: Seek Those Things Which are Above www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkcZ-246cCUAmir Tsarfati: Europe Ready for the Antichrist www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqK9fXsp92kAmir Tsarfati: The Prophetic Changes in the Middle East www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqdn5TbzwvsAmir Tsarfati: Why Should Christians Support Israel www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8pL_CR3rlYAmir Tsarfati: Bible Lands Unveiled Greece: The Unknown God www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_hDiS5_k84Bible Lands Unveiled: Turn the World Upside Down www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM8XxG9qAy4Amir Tsarfati: Europe Closer to the Antichrist www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvlH3l563SQAmir Tsarfati: Europe Ready for the Antichrist www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqK9fXsp92kAmir Tsarfati: Who Goes Where? www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBu3I9TOLZEAmir Tsarfati: Fear Not!www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbfLkhKNzIAmir Tsarfati: Has God Cast Away His People?www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPe3b7PaxfEAmir Tsarfati: On the Road, But Off the Pathwww.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv-2Iw7kE54Amir Tsarfati: The Book of Revelationwww.youtube.com/watch?v=I3GuG1dYARMThe Rise of The One World Religionwww.youtube.com/watch?v=s6FWHjH5fHAAmir Tsarfati: The Great Collusionwww.youtube.com/watch?v=fLzU0RqkiOsAmir Tsarfati: How Close are we to the Mark of the Beastwww.youtube.com/watch?v=6C-6ZvMgi_MAmir Tsarfati: The Illuminati= Luciferians/Satanists and the One World Government. Their agenda is to reduce the world population from 7 Billions people down to 500 millions people through wars, pollution, cancers, deadly viruses, and so on listen at 46 min. at the below video.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tft9T32BNgcAmir Tsarfati: The Satanic Plot to Reduce Earth's Population www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpPcgKaJ_E4Amir T. tried to WARN the WORLD on the seriousness and deadliest about to spread to the whole world from Corona Virus back in Feb.11... But they told him it was FAKE news! We wish the world had taken his information on the Corona Virus seriously back in Feb! It could have saved hundreds thousands of lives from suffering horrible pains and suffering around the world. This Virus could have come from U.S... listen... Amir has proven to be right on target... millions people are going to die listen at 37 min. of the below video. Many deadly flu Viruses will kill millions for years to come. Amir Tsarfati: Special Update: Explosion Coronavirus in Wuhan, China. 259,723 views• Feb 11, 2020www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQjMtdeknPEOver 10,000 people have died around the world! and 350,000 plus people are infected by Corona Virus and still counting by 4/6/1920
Amir Tsarfati: A Few Good Things the Coronavirus has Caused. Very comfort video... Put your faith in God and NOT in this world wealth and riches. 65,950 views• Apr 5, 2020
www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-TFwJsQaOQ
Amir Tsarfati: Evil. The Absence of God What did the world look like beginning in the Garden of Eden and what will it look like in the future? Is evil connected to God? How does evil relate to believers in Christ? Is there a purpose for evil? Though this message was originally delivered a few years ago in the Philippines during the rise of the Islamic State (ISIS) www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgkdIWkhtxw
“Revelation’s Mark of the Beast Exposed” - with Evangelist Mark Finley
Some people are so afraid of it they try to avoid having a Social Security number. Others worry about the bar codes scanned at check-out stands—what could be behind it all? 3,082,044 views• Jun 4, 2018
This evangelist has a VERY good understanding who is the BEAST/A Roman Empire political power system over many nations = In the 4th century it became the Roman Catholic Church political and religious system rule over 1 Billions of believers around the world.
666= Title of the Roman emperors who later became Papacy/Pope. The 666 number of a man/ruler of religious political and religious system over the billions of people. Mark of the beast/666 on their hands and foreheads.
The seal the servants of God and his people had seal of God in their forehead/minds/worship through Jesus Christ gospel. He is off on about the Sabbath keepers as the seal of God people. Mike Finley is a Seventh Day Adventist. He got the beast/666= Rome+RCC empire political and religious system over the sea of humanity/1 billions people are correct.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvTL_lnN5-Q&feature=emb_rel_end
Warnings of the Last Days From God | Christian Short Film "The Days of Noah Have Come" 1,683,843 views•Jul 5, 2017
Here are the WAKE up signs! the last 15 years.... Here are the WAKE up signs! the last 15 years.... listen to a TRUE story happened in 2008 a horrific great disaster at 14 min. the modern day one of the most beautiful city of Sodom and Gomorrah in China destroyed twice with and earthquake and the next year wit a great flood within two years! Warning this will take place when Jesus returns like in the days of Noah great world wide flood.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0uyh2IH72w
Amir Tsarfati: The Coming Prince Christ/God 1st coming to earth as a man Jesus www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZNNGcWjQE Where is the Promise of Jesus Christ coming? Amazing! www.youtube.com/watch?v=niyhP0fFz8o&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=23
Amir Tsarfati: The Day Approaching www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQdCP1suihY Amir Tsarfati: The Second Coming of Jesus as the Christ King of kings to rule the earth www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NXzhMjIUMMAmir Tsarfati: The Millennial Kingdom. Humans believers appear to receive the rewards/responsibilities before the judgment seat of Christ/Jesus during the 1000 yrs reign www.youtube.com/watch?v=scoG0YrgWbs87 more interesting amazing videos topics from Amir Tsarfati www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb8/19/20 Pragmatic said: Why did you have to reinvoke the Interior Venus topic again here? On another thread you accused Fixit and others of doing this, and made out that it was to your detriment. What is good for the goose, should be good for the gander! 2) Fixit wrote: I can't say for sure that I've never raised the Venus topic but I don't know why I would. It's a great big time waster. ~~ NathanB: What a hypocrite you are, fixit... you posts and ask about Venus MANY times, even Curly and others take polls about Jesus lives inside Venus! you guys and gals VOTES, 31 people voted, stop being a bunch of hypocrites, Ok.... and STOP be complainers and cry babies. GROW UP! don't be babies whinner. Many of you want to discuss these things on the main page and turn around hey, We didn't start it... Hypocrites!professing.proboards.com/thread/30231/nathan-2x2?page=3&scrollTo=9141781) Curly's poll Jesus lives inside Venus; 30 people voted and 2355 people read it. I have 6 votes. professing.proboards.com/thread/30223/believes-nathans-statement-jesus-lives?page=12) Annan's poll: Is Nathan a 2x2?No. His Trinity and Venus/Heaven beliefs make him not a 2x2. 23 people voted and 1188 read it. I have 7 votes. professing.proboards.com/thread/30231/nathan-2x2?page=1God Hates Witchcraft - Exodus 22:18
With each passing year, witchcraft has grown more acceptable in the eyes of man, yet God has not wavered concerning His thoughts on these matters. In the Old Testament, being a witch (Exodus 22:18; Leviticus 20:27) and seeking after a witch (Leviticus 20:6-7) were both crimes worthy of death. Even in the age where grace is much more evident, God calls witchcraft a work of the flesh and declares plainly that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:20-21; Revelation 22:15). Not only should believers avoid the practice of such wickedness, they should also refuse to “have pleasure in them that do them” (Romans 1:32) regardless of how innocently they are packaged to make them look harmless. (For children): Read Psalm 7:11 and Proverbs 17:11. God likens witchcraft to rebellion (1 Samuel 15:23). He will judge it (Micah 5:12, 15). During Jonah's time, Nineveh repented of her wicked ways (Jonah 3:8-10) but later turned back to them and was destroyed (Nahum 3:4, 7). (For everyone): Name some ways in which witchcraft has gained access into the homes of otherwise godly people. Has witchcraft found a way into your home as well? What steps should be taken to ensure that witchcraft does not become acceptable to your family? www.learnthebible.org/god-hates-witchcraft-exodus-2218.html-0
Nathan: God/Elohim of the Old Test The LORD and the Lord and Holy Spirit. and the God of the New Test. ARE the SAME. The LORD God of the Old Test. Is God the Father in the New Testament ARE the same. The Lord God of the Old Test is Jesus the Christ of the New Test. ARE the SAME. The Spirit of God in the Old Test. Is the Holy Spirit of the New Testament ARE the Same. In the Old Test God was dealing with a different kinds of enemies! It was a physical kind and natural enemies nations of giants like Goliah or bigger. If the children of Israel didn't kill them they would destroy them. It's NO Delusion! about the Ark of Noah rested in Mt. Ararat/Turkey April 30, 2010 By Stephen Kurczy Correspondent @kurczybeast BOSTON Two members of the search team that claims to have found Noah’s Ark on Mount Ararat in Turkey responded to skepticism by saying that there is no plausible explanation for what they found other than it is the fabled biblical boat that weathered a storm that raged 40 days and 40 nights and flooded the entire Earth. Noah's Ark Ministries International (NAMI) held a press conference April 25 in Hong Kong to present their findings and say they were “99.9 percent sure” that a wooden structure found at a 12,000-ft. elevation and dated as 4,800 years old was Noah’s Ark. www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-Issues/2010/0430/Chinese-explorers-stand-by-claim-of-Noah-s-Ark-find-in-TurkeyHere are more pictures INSIDE the Ark. Just click on the pictures and you will see more pictures of the Ark. www.csmonitor.com/Photo-Galleries/In-Pictures/Noah-s-Ark/(photo)/270951www.csmonitor.com/Photo-Galleries/In-Pictures/Noah-s-Ark/(photo)/270952Here is the Video 5 min. of the Chinese team entering the ARK of Noah. www.bing.com/videos/search?q=In+2012+the+Chinese+expedition+entered+Noah%27s+ark&qpvt=In+2012+the+Chinese+expedition+entered+Noah%27s+ark&view=detail&mid=BBA3F94B5EEB065B7A97BBA3F94B5EEB065B7A97&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3DIn%2B2012%2Bthe%2BChinese%2Bexpedition%2Bentered%2BNoah%2527s%2Bark%26qpvt%3DIn%2B2012%2Bthe%2BChinese%2Bexpedition%2Bentered%2BNoah%2527s%2Bark%26FORM%3DVDRE~~ G. posts on Obama professing.proboards.com/thread/30454/election?page=59&scrollTo=936981Was Jesus a celibate?Here is early church fathers teaching on Celibacy: A dictionary of early Christians beliefs by David W. Bercot ~~ (Methodius A.D. 290) Let us inquire as to the reason that none of the patriarchs, prophets, and righteous men, either praised or chose the state of virginity. The reason that is was reserved for the Lord alone to be the first to teach this doctrine. It was fitting that Jesus who was the first and chief of priests, prophets, and angels should also be hailed as the FIRST and chief of VIRGINS. For in the old times, man was not yet perfect. And for this reason, he was unable to receive perfection which is VIRGINITY.
~~ (Pierius A.D. 275) " I wish that all men were even as I am." Pierius, when he was expounding and unfolding the meaning of the apostle Paul and purposed to explain these words, added this remark: "In saying this, Paul clearly preaches Celibacy." concerning virginity, we received no commandments. Rather, we have leave it to the power of those who are willing to maintain it as a VOW. It is clear to all, without any doubt, that to care for the things of the Lord and to please God is much better than to please one's wife. (Methoditus A.D. 290) In the Song of songs, to any who is willing to see it, Christ Himself praises those who are firmly established in Virginity, saying, "As the lily among thorns, so is my love among the daughters."Virginity is something supernaturally great, wonderful, and glorious. To speak plainly and in accordance with the Holy Scriptures, this best and noble manner of life is alone the root of immorality-- as well as its flower and first fruits. And for this reason, the Lord promises that those who have made themselves ENUNUCHS shall enter the kingdoms of heaven. Celibacy among humans is a very rare thing and difficult to attain. It is NOT enough to merely keep the body undefiled but we must care for the souls of men as being the divinities of their bodies. For all of the irrational appetites of a virgin are banished from the body by divine teaching.professing.proboards.com/thread/30714/again-studied-history-celibacy?page=2&scrollTo=948545Jan 7, 2022 enuf said: You have no idea how soul destroying and destructive that is. Keep forgiving the abuser every time they abuse you is what you are saying. Many Christians have turned their back on God because of destructive advice like yours. It puts the blame back on the victim for not forgiving. Its re-abusing the victim/survivors by telling them if they still suffer from the effects of the abuse it's because they haven't forgiven. One minute you advise them to get professional help while the next you advise the opposite saying it is man's way. Tells me you don't advocate them getting professional help. It's better for a millstone be hung around their neck than to offend one of these little ones. Forgiving is not forgetting. I need to add, it is the victims/survivor's choice if they wish to forgive or not, not ours to tell them to. They have had their choices taken away from them so it's about empowering them make their own choices not imposing our will on them. Nathan replied: God and Jesus telling them to do this if they were TRUE believers in Christ Matthew 7:14-15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 18:21, 22. Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven." The choice is your to make, if you follow the teachings of Jesus it will SET you FREE from hatred, unforgiveness, and bondage from self-pity. Reports CSA cases to the authority ASAP and let them handle the abusers situation. 5 Ways to Forget About The Past And Move On
You cannot move forward if you are still thinking about your past. Can you imagine a track athlete attempting to compete in a 100m dash with an heavy backpack? Yes, he’s most likely going to finish the race but he won’t finish it at the appointed time that he we was supposed to. Many of us are ready to run our race, we are ready to shoot for the stars, but there is one thing that we need to do first; we need to drop off that backpack full of shame, regrets, unhappiness, mistakes, failure, broken hearts, grudges etc. When you drop that backpack, I promise you that your race will be much easier to run in life. www.lifehack.org/363767/5-ways-forget-about-th
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Post by nathan on Aug 20, 2017 7:59:44 GMT -5
Nathan does NOT go to meetings.They hash these things Nathan does NOT go to meetings in 2006 and they got blasted by professing people and non-professing alike. 1) Guest: It is my understanding that if Nathan COULD get to meetings, then he WOULD get to meetings. You SHOULD never judge a book by its cover. Always look at the contents.2) another guest: here's a big, "SO WHAT" 3) A drive by shooter: In my eyes he is not professing any longerIthascome: What does God see?4) InnocentQ wrote to WA friend: And who are you? Do you share with the workers your participation on these forums? For your creditability, please share information of who you are, such as full name and the city you go to meeting in!WA friend said: Irrelevant to the issueInnocentQ: To you, maybe? You are truly despicable as a person and claiming your profession in Christ (albeit your profession is to man, that I am assured of). In other words, just because you get to lots of meetings and speak in them, doesn't mean you are professing as you say you are, AND just because Nathan doesn't have all the opportunities to get to meetings as you, doesn't mean his isn't professing as he say he is PERIOD!Methink, this isn't the place nor is this for us to really know... our relationship is between us and God! As for gossip, that is what it is....Some people need to get a life, so they stay out of others' life. i.e. MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS5) Ithascome to WA friend: WA professing friend ... you are no friend... you are a snake.No you were accused of not being a friend... a snake hides and strikes without warning. If Nathan did go to meeting with you ... how could you ever have fellowship with him? ... are you suppose to love your brother? I think I love Nathan more than you do. You are right ... I do not know you and I am not sure I would ever want to.6) To WA friend: You "professing wonder" in WA, WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE A BROTHER? Do you think that regular meeting attendance makes you somewhat more "righteous" to point your finger in someone else's face.? I THINK YOU SHOULD STAY HOME! Pray for a better attitude (like the mind of Christ).Hi All, May I tentatively make a comment here. I don't know NB and I don't know WA professing friend but reading this thread the words of Jesus came to me "If they be not against us then they are with us" WA all any of us can do is post what we perceive and believe, anything else would be lying to ourselves and before God. Not all within the fellowship believe everything that is put before them by the workers explicitly, some of their tenants are their and others interpretation and as we each read and study the bible we come to different conclusions about some aspects. This is healthy as it causes us to really study the word and try to gain an individual understanding and relationship with God. If you agree with everything you hear from all in the fellowship then Maybe.... just maybe you need to examine yourself as to whether you are just following blindly or if you are developing a personal relationship with God. If on examination you find this is what you understand and in your relationship have these things made clear to your understanding then more power to you and I am wrapped for you and the unity you experience in the fellowship. But please be careful in calling out one who is in fellowship with us, it speaks of a word in season and if you have anything against NB why not email him personally first, it says in the bible to go to your brother first in private. NB Hi Brother, Don't be discouraged. I work shift work also 2 x 12 hr nights then 2 x 12 hr days so I only get 4 Sundays out of 8 if I am lucky. But I am really blessed in that I have a wonderful bunch of F&W around that understand and help and encourage me. Is going to meeting critical to our salvation? No I believe not, but it helps and encourages us and Jesus said not to forsake the gathering together. I know this means in any form of fellowship, so if you have chosen the F&W then we shouldn't forsake that. Thanks for reading fellas I would like to encourage you both to show the fruits of the spirit and promote good will to all men and love each other in spite of who you are. Love and Regards BC InnocentQ wrote to BC: Thank you...this is a person who has Christ within and Jesus shines forth! Amen. If I was fellowshipping with you, I would miss your words of encouragement on the days you weren't with us in church. God Bless.....we need more fellow person like you!From Liz to BC: If all 2x2-ers would heed your words, there would be less gossip & less judgement in your fellowship! Even when I was a 2x2-er, I never felt meeting attendance was a 'salvation issue'. Perfect meeting attendance garnered worker approval and the label of being 'hearty'. It had NOTHING to do with my individual walk & relationship I was striving to have with God. I was a faithful attendee b/c I was seeking the approval of others. (that's not the easiest thing to admit, even years later).Agreeing with everything that's said without thorough examination, can cause one to 'follow blindly'. We were given brains for a reason - to use!Lizprofessing.proboards.com/thread/3669/nathan?page=1 1/17/2022 Ram wrote:On this occasion Nathan gets my full support. I do not know his precise circumstances.I would strongly urge Nathan to think for himself with regards to his work commitments, especially regarding Sunday working. If it's a necessity, it is a necessity. Just accept it if nothing can be done about it. The last person that is going to criticise you is God. He has the power to change things and if you take the matter to him in prayer and an opportunity for change does not come along, then take it for granted that he wants you exactly where you are.This comes from many years experience in a job where I worked three weekends out of every four, missing 75% of Sunday meetings. To put this into better prospect, in the UK they also have Sunday PM meetings in addition to Sunday morning meetings, as well as Wednesday PM meetings. I understand that many countries in the World where the F&Ws sect exists, they do not have Sunday PM meetings. When I learned this, a few years after my retirement, I was shocked. Such a thing was a necessity in my country. So are the countries which do not pursue this practice, mediocre Christians, shirkers, lazy, etc, etc.I had been in my job quite a few years before I professed. I sought desperately to change my job in order to find a living more commensurate with being a professing person. I prayed desperately about it and over a few years grew very frustrated at being in that situation. I had a wife and two children to support as well. I found little support was forthcoming for my circumstances within the group. Eventually I got sick of 'looking to fit in' and became very relaxed about my situation. I left the matter in God's hands. I remained in that situation more or less until I retired from that job. Looking back I had many desperate times having to work Sundays as well as the other days in the week, but there were many experiences and blessings which I would never have had, had I had a more normal, easier life in the meetings. I now thank God for his 'keeping power' during those years. I did make many mistakes, some of them quite disastrous, but these were largely due to trying to follow my human spiritual masters.This matter is between Nathan and his God.So my advice to Nathan is this. If there is no obvious and practical way out of his situation and a lengthy period of prayer is not resolving the matter, just relax, because God has the power to change your circumstances for you. Be prepared for your current circumstances being within his will for your life. Don't listen to the advice of others. It has the power to destroy you. You are serving God and not mammon.I tried that and failed to find a suitable alternative, having a wife and two children to support. Against be deepest desires I remained in post, but years later I came to see that God wanted me exactly where he had called me. Despite many difficulties, I received many blessings, especially after I accepted the fact. I would've changed, if I could have, but I couldn't. There was a reason for that. I felt trapped for years until realising the truth of the matter set me free.Nathan, I don't know your circumstances or how true your heart is, because I don't know you personally. However, if you are truly doing your best in your circumstances, don't let the ignorance, inexperience, lack of understanding or ill-will of others drag you down. It is the work of the enemy, not God. Sometimes the 'genuine' concern of others is the worst.1) 1/17/2022Fixit wrote to Nathan:You're only pretending to be a 2x2 unless you attend Sunday AM meetings regularly. 2) Ram wrote: Another very cultic and incorrect remark. I met an American worker some years ago whose mother was professing. She was the only professing person for many miles and could not get to 'any' meetings, perhaps only two or three a year. This worker said that God kept her mother in her circumstances. What about those too ill to go to meetings. I'm talking long term stuff here. There are many cases which challenge your remark. I do agree that if your circumstances and health allow, you should make the effort. What about Sunday PM meetings? Are these not important. They were all important in my country in my time. Do you realise how slippery a slope you are on if you don't go to Sunday PM meetings? Do you have Sunday PM meetings in New Zealand? Maybe you do but there are many places which don't. Do you realise the pressure that my family and I were under to bust ab gut to be at a Sunday PM meeting, yet most other countries in the world the F&Ws could sit back and relax.
1/15/2020 openingact34 said: Was that a change to your definition, Fixit? Or just an "I hate Nathan" red herring? You could say I didn't define the problem very precisely. 2) Fixit wrote: Don't you think those who preach the 2x2 gospel should attend Sunday AM meetings? I get the impression you don't like hypocrisy but you defend Nate because he does more damage to the 2x2 faith than most other people. Openingact wrote: In over 20 years, Nathan has managed to convince exactly nobody about hollow Venus, Valiant Thor, Frank Stranges, etc. Even the the QAnon conspiracy theorists don't believe him. He's not doing any significant damage to the 2x2s. However, he seems to have been designated as a scapegoat by certain professing people who claim otherwise. One morning in 2019, professing people in Australia and New Zealand woke up and went out into the "wicked world". Their coworkers, bosses, classmates, teachers, and neighbors had all seen the 60 Minutes special detailing how they were part of a cult that protected and excused pedophiles. This should have been devastating. But shortly thereafter, I saw posts on here about how young people were leaving the Truth and/or not professing because of Nathan! Yeah right!!! Apparently they greet child predators and protectors on their own worker's list with a big shrug. But the guy halfway around the world who posts about UFOs....now THATS WHY I'm leaving the church and deciding to go straight to hell. Aug 20, 2017 searcher said: Can someone please tell me: If Matthew 10 is THE model of the 2x2 ministry, (which makes it "the Truth") how exactly are the workers fitting into that?By going only to the house of Israel? Healing the sick? Cleansing lepers? Raising the dead? Casting out demons? Having no money at their disposal? No extra clothing? Staying in the same place while in a city? ie: going not from house to house~~ Nathan wrote: Matthew 10 is NOT model for the 2x2 workers Gentiles ministry to follow but those instructions can be very helpful for the 2x2 workers to pay attention and learn from ... Jesus was given the 12 apostles and 72 apostles in Luke 10 instruction how they were to travel when they bring the good news to the Jews. They were to travel light for their journey provide neither gold or silver, neither two coats, or extra sandals, extra food belts on them...
Have faith in God, He will provide all of their needs through their followers. Jesus said in Matthew 6:25-33 " Do NOT worry about food, clothes, and drinks... Behold the birds of the air for they sow not, neither do they reap, yet your heavenly Father feed them. Are you NOT valuable than the birds? If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."
The friends have provided food, clothes, money, and homes for the workers to stay, so they don't need to worry about these things like Jesus has promised that God will take care of these things so they can seek first the kingdom of God.
~~ In the Old Testament God had promised when the Messiah came, he would be like unto Moses, he will perform many miracles to show them proof, that He was sent from God just like God had sent Moses, who performed and showed the children of Israel many miracles, the 10 plagues on the Egyptians (Acts 3:22-26).
So, healing, miracles, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers were necessary for Jesus and the Jewish apostles to show to the Jews during those days and time, they were sent by God just like Moses. God can heal people today but perform and showing miracles were NOT promised to the Gentiles apostles.
In 1928 Edward Cooney (1901 2x2 worker) tried to heal one of the friends in front of the overseer and many workers just like the 12 apostles in Matthew 10 but he failed, and eventually he was excommunicate from the ministry and fellowship.
When people taken the scriptures out of context, or Don't understand what it's written, he or she can get into a lot of trouble. Like handle poisonous snakes without getting harm, a few pastors and Christians have died from using poisonous snakes in their worship services because of (Mark 16:17-18)
~~ Jesus told the 12 and 72 apostles go NOT to the Gentiles at this time! because it was foretold in the Old Testament (Acts 3:26) that God would give the Jews the FIRST opportunity in hearing the gospel or the Good News then the Gentiles receive it later in (Acts 11: 46-48). Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. For this is what the Lord has commanded us: “I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.” When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit appointed Paul, Barnabas, Silas, John Mark, Timothy, and many others to be the ambassadors to bring the good news to the Gentiles... And the 12 and 72 apostles were to preach and labor mostly among the Jews in Jerusalem and scattered around the world. (Gal. 2:7-9)
~~ Jesus instruction to the 12 Jewish apostles Staying in one place and Go NOT from house to house. To understand this portion of the scriptures, we must know the custom in those days, when a stranger/s come to a village the people in town must show hospitality by inviting them into their homes, providing foods, and place to stay over nights. People in town were to take turn to welcome these strangers to stay in their homes.
These 12 and 72 apostles were on an urgent mission from Jesus and he didn't want them to take too long of a time, going from house to house eating, drinking, chatting away with useless talks... They must stay in One home and deliver the message the Messiah has come then move on to the NEXT town.
We read in the book of Acts Peter, Paul and his co-workers stayed different homes of Jews and Gentiles believers in their traveling and missions.
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Post by nathan on Aug 20, 2017 8:14:23 GMT -5
1) 8/16/2017
Review/Worker said: Well I ABSOLUTELY agree with you. "Could not have possibly went all the way back to the the original disciples of Jesus!" Our first workers and friends around the turning of the 20th century came out of other denominations in which they have been disillusioned and unfulfilled. They don't have a line going back to the beginning. They sought in courage and faith to go back to that which was in the beginning. I'm today grateful for those men and women.
~~ Nathan: My questions to review.... So, what happened to billions of men and women lives who lived before William Irvine became 2x2 worker in 1898? Did they all go to a lost eternity because there were no 2x2 worker existed in 1987 for them to hear the gospel and profess.
Can you explain the 1800 years gap? from the 1st century apostles to William Irvine 1898 and When did the 1st century church disappear from the face of the earth?
So, you THINK God wait and wait 1700 years to revive Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry and New Testament fellowship through William Irvine and the 2x2 early workers in 1898-1902? I'd like to know and hear about the gap theory according to your post.
Jesus said to Peter and the 11 apostles, "Upon this Rock I will build my Church! and the gates of HELL shall NOT prevail against it." Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come... Acts 1:8 Jesus said this, " But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
So, did Jesus our Lord God and Savior LIE and teach things falsely to the 12 apostles, to all his followers and to us when he spoke these words 2000 yrs ago, Review? Who should the friends believe Jesus own words and prophecies or the workers who believe like you do?
2) enuf said: As Alistair said, the church that Jesus started which is Christianity has always been there since Jesus day. The fact that the workers have only been there since the late 1900s shows it is not the true apostolic church. Like all churches they are a break away from a breakaway which like every church can trace a line back to Jesus. The door is Jesus, Nathan not a particular denomination. The apostolic origin is Jesus.
~~ Nathan: What you are saying is true, every denomination traces their roots back to Jesus, then WHY the exes are going CRAZY! And RILED UP! When the workers teach and preach the 2x2 goes back to to the shores of Galilee= Jesus?
Paul had warned in Acts 19 about some church elders, false apostles departed from them and formed there own Christianity. By the end of the 1st century there were 100s of groups departed from the original group.
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Post by Grant on Aug 20, 2017 10:53:57 GMT -5
You forgot to add this onto the end of the post, Nathan.
. The workers preach that their church goes back to the shores of Galilee which it does not.
People, including your worker Review says no, it was started by men at the end of 1900.
Agree it was crazy to try and make people think their church went back to Jesus when one day it would be found out it was not true. It is crazy that with all the evidence to the contrary some people are still believing this.
Yes it tells us there will be some who will be false teachers and depart from the Faith. Maybe yout think that anyone who starts their own church is departing from the Faith. William Irvine and those who joined him fit this description.
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Post by nathan on Aug 20, 2017 11:00:52 GMT -5
You forgot to add this onto the end of the post, Nathan. The workers preach that their church goes back to the shores of Galilee which it does not.People, including your worker Review says no, it was started by men at the end of 1900. Agree it was crazy to try and make people think their church went back to Jesus when one day it would be found out it was not true. It is crazy that with all the evidence to the contrary some people are still believing this. Yes it tells us there will be some who will be false teachers and depart from the Faith. Maybe yout think that anyone who starts their own church is departing from the Faith. William Irvine and those who joined him fit this description. ~~ Nathan: Whathat is an ex-2x2 and he has a better understanding of the 2x2 church history than Review, a current senior worker. Many of the early workers and through the years will disagree with Review/the worker... I will post theirs testimonies later.
~~ Edward Cooney (1867-1960) 2x2 early days worker in (1901) wrote To Impartial Reporter 10/7/1909
1) Edward Cooney wrote, " We (2x2 workers) did NOT start this Jesus Way. It was started and planned by God before we were thought of, and we are earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the Saints and trying to separate it from the tradition of men. There was in the day, William Irvine, upon whose heart God's Spirit worked to raise him up like the judges of old, to lead back those in Christendom to the TRUTH as it is in Jesus." ( By Patricia Roberts book page 43-45)
Edward Cooney wrote, "Undoubtedly God has called us and separated us to be His people in the beginning, and most prominent and most used in this calling out a people, William Irvine who at the time of being sent forth to be a prophet, saw more clearly than any of us that the revelation of the Father to each individual child of His is Christ would build His Church, and that the gates of HELL shall NOT prevail against it." (By Patricia Roberts Page 43-45)
~~ 2/7/2014 Whathat, an ex-2x2 wrote on the Truth Message Board."Interestingly, there is a picture of ALL the Faith Mission pilgrims/preachers as of 1892, standing in our rows like the 2x2 workers picture, and at their feet is a banner "The Holiness" movement is simply the idea that you are redeemed when you are born again in Christ, but you are NOT sanctified at that point; you are NOT holy. William Irvine was steeped in it, because he attended Keswick Convention which is seen as the center of the Holiness movement.
Anyway, the pedigree is actually from the Moravian Church which dates back to 1457. John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist, but who was actually an Anglican Holiness doctrine widely in his sermons and later in his book titled "Christians perfection" is the same idea as Holiness.
So, this is from Wiki----
It was on the voyage to the colonies that the Wesleys first came into contact with Moravian settlers was influenced by their deep faith and spirituality. During the voyage a storm came up and broke the mast of the ship. While the English panicked, the Moravians calmly sang hymns and prayed. This experienced led Wesley possessed inner strength which he lacked. The deeply personal religion that the Moravian pietists practiced heavily influence Wesley's theology of Methodist. And then the Moravian church was an offshoot of Catholicism, but almost a pre-Reformation one. However, some people believe the Moravians church, I will quote the Apostolic Succession through the Waldensians (1170 A.D.) Church.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiness_movement
Anyway, potentially the lineage is: Jesus Christ the Founder of the New Testament 2x2 apostolic ministry and Church (33 A.D) >>> Paul the Apostle (68 A.D.) ...... the Vaudois (400 A.D.) ...... the Waldensians ( 1170 A.D.) ...... Albigeneses ( 1300 A.D.) ...... Moravians (1400 A.D.) ...... John Wesley (1700 A.D) ...... Holiness movement (1800 A.D.) ..... the Faith Mission ( 1886 A.D.) ...... 2x2 Workers and Friends ...... (1898/1900------>> Jesus 2nd coming!)I would have voted for 1897 William Irvine Founder date UNTIL a) I read John Long's Journal b) learned more on the socio-historical background that information and other preachers. That background included information on the Faith Mission, the Awakening in Scotland, various independent preaching movement and before that I could NOT see the forest before the trees. Now, I see William Irvine, John Long and the other first 2x2 workers as having separated from a much larger preaching movement in Scotland in the late 19th Century, one which culminated in schism because the main denomination would NOT accept the Holiness doctrine.
As a "late date" fan at the present time, that would certainly make William Irvine the FIRST leader/overseer/head worker of the 2x2 movement. Founder? I have just NEVER liked calling William Irvine the Founder of the 2x2 movement. Nathan's selection of Edward Cooney quotes to Impartial Reporter in 1909 in the early days, and shed quite a bit of light on the early days of the movement, in my opinion. John Wesley's the Methodist worked and preaching on Christians perfection and his ideas in that area were strongly influenced in that area of Moravian Church, which is the Vaudois, and the Waldensians.
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Post by Grant on Aug 20, 2017 13:54:42 GMT -5
You have just confirmed that William Irvine started the workers church, Christian convention church or 2x2s. Call it whatever name you want. They were never part of the Waldensians, and broke away from the Faith Mission. Many churches are part of keswick but the workers are not. It is a mainstream Christian organization.
Attending a keswick convention or two does not make the workers part of it nor part of the holiness movement. They broke from Faith Mission and anything to do with mainstream Christianity. They did not agree with it.
Remember it's been said many times on here, that at the turn of the 20th century they came out of these churches because they were dissatisfied with them.
What Hat is a person like you and me on this board. He has put forth a theory which he made up and you have grasped at it because it sounds good to you. No proof that the workers were anything to do with the Waldensians but plenty of proof they weren't. Every church claims to be built on the rock which never died out. Because you say it refers to the workers doesn't make it so. Facts tell the truth, not theory.
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Post by nathan on Aug 20, 2017 15:20:10 GMT -5
You have just confirmed that William Irvine started the workers church, Christian convention church or 2x2s. Call it whatever name you want. They were never part of the Waldensians, and broke away from the Faith Mission. Many churches are part of keswick but the workers are not. It is a mainstream Christian organization. Attending a keswick convention or two does not make the workers part of it nor part of the holiness movement. They broke from Faith Mission and anything to do with mainstream Christianity. They did not agree with it. Remember it's been said many times on here, that at the turn of the 20th century they came out of these churches because they were dissatisfied with them. What Hat is a person like you and me on this board. He has put forth a theory which he made up and you have grasped at it because it sounds good to you. No proof that the workers were anything to do with the Waldensians but plenty of proof they weren't. Every church claims to be built on the rock which never died out. Because you say it refers to the workers doesn't make it so. Facts tell the truth, not theory. William Irvine was ONE of the leaders of the early 2x2 workers group.... like Edward Cooney, John Long, George Walker, Jack Carroll and his family did more for the 2x2 church than William Irvine, who just introduced to most of the workers the Faith Mission 2x2 pilgrim/worker apostolic ministry. It was John Govan, started The Faith Mission in 1886, and he received it from the Holiness Movement group in 1867... and they received from those had done it before them.
Whathat understanding is SPOT on! You need to study the Vaudois doctrine, belief that I posted on page 1 of this thread.... and compare with the 2x2 doctrines of the early workers .... They have a lot of doctrines, belief in common and spirits..... It's NOT a theory... I have SAVED historical documents facts to back it up!
The Holy Spirit is still on the earth since the book of Acts chapter 2.... It's He who gives men and women revelation, understanding of Jesus Truth and Way of the New Testament apostolic ministry and fellowship so they too to continue through the centuries, the gospel of Salvation through believing in Jesus Christ as their Redeemer and Savior.
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Post by Grant on Aug 20, 2017 15:33:03 GMT -5
John Govan's Faith Mission was a mainstream Protestant missionary organisation. William Irvine and Co did not agree with it so broke away from mainstream Christianity.
They did not plan ahead about what to do with their converts because it appeared that they expected everyone to become a workers. Not scriptural, fellowship is.
You have given no proof that the workers were ever part of the Waldensians. John Govan wasn't. After all these years surely you would have found something. All you have done is prove that the workers are another break away protestant denomination.
The Holy Spirit has been working in the lives of men and women since Jesus day. Not in a particular little group of Waldensians and later the mantle being passed onto the workers. It has been revealing Jesus to people. Jesus is not a way but the way.
The holiness movement is part of mainstream Christianity of which the workers claim to have no part of.
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Post by nathan on Aug 20, 2017 15:52:26 GMT -5
John Govan's Faith Mission was a mainstream Protestant missionary organisation. William Irvine and Co did not agree with it so broke away from mainstream Christianity. They did not plan ahead about what to do with their converts because it appeared that they expected everyone to become a workers. Not scriptural, fellowship is. You have given no proof that the workers were ever part of the Waldensians. John Govan wasn't. After all these years surely you would have found something. All you have done is prove that the workers are another break away protestant denomination. The Holy Spirit has been working in the lives of men and women since Jesus day. Not in a particular little group of Waldensians and later the mantle being passed onto the workers. It has been revealing Jesus to people. Jesus is not a way but the way. The holiness movement is part of mainstream Christianity of which the workers claim to have no part of. Like you and I said in previous posts ALL churches trace their roots back to the 12 and 72 apostles, and Paul's apostle missions in Rome 67 A.D. or the Romans Catholic Church in the 3rd century... but the BIG difference is which churches/denominations follow Jesus New Testament apostolic ministry and fellowship teaching or they follow the traditions religious pagans practice of men RCC and their 40,000 plus Protestants denominations daughters, which break away from the mother of Harlot.
We read ONLY Jesus Way and Truth of fellowship in the 1st century... Jesus gives us hints of 40,000 plus ways in Matthew chapter 13.... The parable of the Sower, the seed and Satan, who planted Tares (the children of the devil) among the Wheat (Children of God) in God's field/the world.
The angels of God comes before Jesus returns and they bundle the wheat in God's storehouse and gather all the Tares/BAD seed to burn up because is good for nothing. ~~ Jesus The Great " I AM " God (From The Dead Sea Scrolls found in caves 1947) I, the Lord God of creation, who was and who is and who shall always be the one true God, the mind, the very center of the Universe, speaks to your own heart. The words that I have spoken to my prophets Moses and others were that he should recognize that the great “I Am.” filled his being with the power and the authority to open his mouth in my name and to proclaim his words as a living words that I placed deeply within him. I have in times past spoken through the mouths of my prophets and then through the mouths of my apostles. Now the times and seasons are approaching, as are the reasons, when my words shall again be spoken by my obedient prophets and apostles. Their words shall be my words and their deeds that shall be my deeds, because I have spoken this thing before the World was ever formed. Those words that I now speak shall be hidden for a season and then shall be revealed in the last times I shall cause the Earth to quake and the sunlight, which represents the new dawning, shall shine brightly upon those who are appointed to carry my words from the darkness of the caves to the bright sunlight of my new revelation to all mankind ... and mankind shall read and they shall study those words and they shall find that they are the words that will cause an awakening to occur in the minds of mankind. It has been said in times past that I am in the wind and I am in the fire and I am into the waters. These words are not true. The truth of this matter is that I am the wind. I am the fire. I am the water. I am in everything and in everything that exists. When you touch the mountain, you touch me. When you are touching the water, you are touching me. When you touch the fire, you are touching me. I am the Lord of the Universe and there is not one place that I am not. I am not in the flowers, the plants, the fruit of the land, but I am the flowers. I am the plants. I am the fruit of the land. Mankind will climb into the heavens. I am not in the heavenly, but I am the heavenly. When I created man from the dust of the Earth, I was the dust of the Earth and I was and am the breath of life that causes mankind to live.Say not that the Lord your God is in the heavens or on the Earth. I am the heavens and I am the Earth. Now you have received the true revelation of my word, which was spoken to you in times past. The word said that I am everywhere present. I am omnipresent. I am not part of myself, but rather I am the whole of the Universe. Wherever you look, wherever you come or go, whatever you do or say, I am there in the midst of you because I am not only in, but rather I am you! It shall be written in the future that man is the universe. I say to you that I do not dwell in the universe of mankind, but I am that Universe of Mankind, and there is no separation whatsoever. These words that I have spoken to you at this time and in this place are that you might believe the truth of the message that as my Father is one with me so is the Spirit one with me. Now I am likewise in you and you are in me and that means I am one and you are with me. Have I not spoken these words in the past that I am in you and you are in me? (John 17:21) Jesus said, " That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." Let this testimony be with you forever and forever, as we together traverse the streets of that sojourn from dawn to night. Be at peace and look deeply within yourself and you will find me. Again I have spoken the words in the past that you are indeed gods. I am your God. This revelation is of utmost importance and you must believe the whole truth as I have spoken it in your pure hearing. I say to you, allow the vibrations of your spirit, your inner ear, be unstopped and hear what the Spirit says to you at this hour. I am the center of your universe, because I am the whole of your universe. Know this, for this is the word of the living God, the Creator of all things which are. In time and seasons to come this word will be revealed to you and you shall behold the brightness of this truth, and you shall say, “This is the light for which I have long awaited. This is the revelation that will hold and maintain me through every experience of life.” Beware, there are those who would destroy this truth, but they shall not be able to destroy this truth because the truth abides in you and you abide in the truth. I have spoken in times past. And I have said that the truth shall cause many to walk in freedom, out of darkness and satanic bondage. And they shall have no further influence or rule over you. I have spoken these truths by the words of my lips and these words are true. Accept them and you shall live in peace, in joy and in victory over all things. Amen! You are invited to share this information with others, but kindly acknowledge copyright and keep this article intact. © Dr. Frank E. Stranges Words of encouragement from our Lord God Jesus Christ the Creator of the Universe
Also from Cave # 7 1. "My Dear Children, by the time you read these words, many years will have passed since my death and resurrection. The times and seasons will be different from the times which I have spent with my disciples. You will be living in perilous days and nights. But you will be aware of my presence with you at all times because this I have already committed to you long ago." 2. "My message to you is to stand fast and hold to that which has been proven to be just and true. Do not hold onto those things of this present world but rather seek first my kingdom and you will be the recipients of all that is good and Holy." 3. "These shall prove to be great days and nights of trials and tribulations. But you, my chosen ones, will rejoice because I have made a way for you were there was no way. You will find that My Words shall never return to me empty or void. You will live in total expectation that I am God of My Word. Yes, I shall keep My Word to you everyday that you live. Then, if and when you depart from your present clothing of flesh, you shall instantly be transformed to be with me for all eternity." 4. "I am presently continuing to prepare a wonderful place for you. When that place is completely prepared for you and My message of My kingdom has been carried throughout the planet, then you shall see and witness positive signs of my soon return. Keep your faith and trust in Me because I am the Lord who has promised to be at your side forever." 5. "Many will attempt to steal your crown and rob you of your joy. But they can never succeed because of My Presence with you. What you have hidden in the deep recesses of your heart can never be removed by the enemy of your soul. Maintain a strong faith in me and My Word and you shall never perish but enjoy life everlasting which I have provided you." 6. "May these words be of continuous comfort to you and to your children. Speak to them in words of joy and comfort, which have been rooted and grounded in My Holy Word. Continue to strive to perform good works among men. Allow the brightness of your own life to dispel the shadows of doubt and fear." 7. "When you read these words much prophecy will have already come to pass, however, more prophetic events will take place to assure you that I am the Lord God. I am the Lord who has permitted many things to occur in the past in order to prepare you for tomorrow. Be of good cheer. Love one another and continue to keep My Word, always." From the Copper Scrolls Cave #3
11. "You shall also witness my angels and my Heavenly Messengers who will visit you in their chariots and assure you of the Gifts of God." 12. "My Heavenly Messengers will also bear you up on the wings of deliverance as I so instructed them to do." 13. "They will speak of me and my Glory and will show signs and wonders at my command. My Heavenly Messengers will also council you in the ways of the Lord and will reveal to you the wonders of the Universe, at My Command." 14. "Let your faith and confidence in me never waiver. I am with you, Always." Copper Scrolls Cave #3 The Master speaking, "Do not permit your pure mind to become troubled in any form but rather allow your faith and your belief to solely rest in Almighty God. You believe whole-heartedly in Almighty God, you also believe in Me with all of your heart, mind and spirit. In our universe, which I have created, there are multitudes of places and orbs which, along with the Earth, shall be your future dwelling places." "I have already prepared many places for you to visit and to also dwell in the future. In reality, because I Am God, I shall be with you always everywhere and will always accompany you. And when the time is ripe you shall know that I have already made a way for you to be transformed and then you shall dwell with me in those other places. In that manner, we shall never be apart again for I shall be with you, always." "I have already made provisions so do not allow your pure mind, your pure heart or your spirit to become disturbed. I am well aware that the evil one and his followers have already tried and tempted you and attempted to try your faith. He is very busy and his evil activities shall increase as the time of the end shall appear." "His own angels whom I have cast out of the Heavenly, down to Earth, are busy attempting to, in every way, to destroy your faith. But young children shall be assisted by My Angels and other Heavenly Messengers, who will reveal themselves in chariots of fire. They will bring you a message that will cause you to be. 1. "My children, in whom I have entrusted my Spirit, will reap fortunes and riches from the totally unexpected sources. This, because the lack of such wealth has prevented you from fulfilling and performing your ministry to the fullest. I, the Lord, shall speak to those of my other children throughout this orb, and they, in direct obedience to me will communicate with you because of your faithfulness to my calling upon your life." "Again, as I have spoken to you in times past in my word, I shall speak to you in three distinct manners: In night dreams, in visions of the day and night and by Divine Revelation. This I have promised you and this will be my bond to you. Believe it and know it for I speak these words with my mouth." 3. "These shall prove to be great days and nights of trials and tribulations. But you, my chosen ones, will rejoice because I have made a way for you were there was no way. You will find that My Words shall never return to me empty or void. You will live in total expectation that I am God of My Word. Yes, I shall keep My Word to you everyday that you live. Then, if and when you depart from your present clothing of flesh, you shall instantly be transformed to be with me for all eternity." 4. "I am presently continuing to prepare a wonderful place for you. When that place is completely prepared for you and My message of My kingdom has been carried throughout the planet, then you shall see and witness positive signs of my soon return. Keep your faith and trust in Me because I am the Lord who has promised to be at your side forever." web.archive.org/web/20161213193255/http://www.rense.com/general66/cave.htm
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Post by Grant on Aug 20, 2017 15:59:31 GMT -5
The workers are exactly the same. A break away from a breakaway the same as all churches. The workers do not follow the apostolic church. They are just another denomination with their own views and traditions. Another daughter of the mother of harlots.
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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 20, 2017 16:03:40 GMT -5
I beg to differ. "The BIG difference" is in the definition given to the word "roots." There are spiritual roots and physical roots.
All Christian churches trace their spiritual roots back to the apostles; All churches physical roots go back to the person who founded their method/church.
To assume the same "roots" for both spiritual and physical in a church is to equivocate. The word "roots" had two distinct meanings concerning churches. It begs the question, "Which roots are you asking about? Spiritual or physical?"
Proving something about one type root doesnt prove or disprove the other type root. Merging or mixing them up generates false conclusions.
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Post by nathan on Aug 20, 2017 16:04:21 GMT -5
The workers are exactly the same. A break away from a breakaway the same as all churches. The workers do not follow the apostolic church. They are just another denomination with their own views and traditions. ~~ Nathan: Yes, they are following the New Testament apostolic ministry and fellowship in the homes...Excerpt from George Walker letter in 1942: "We take this opportunity to state that during the closing years of the last century and the first years of this century a number of people in the British Isles and in America were exercised in heart and mind, through their study of the Scriptures, in regard to the methods of preaching and worship in the several churches of which they were then members. They were deeply concerned about spiritual things, and became fully convinced that there should be a return to the methods and purposes taught and carried out by Christ and His first disciples. This conviction led to frequent earnest conversations and studies on the subject, which in turn led to religious meetings, and in due time a number of these people went forth to devote their lives to the preaching of the Gospel according to the teaching and example of Christ as given in the New Testament, i.e., "two by two" and without salary or making appeals for financial assistance, putting implicit trust in God and His promise that as they "sought first the Kingdom of God" their natural needs of food and raiment "would be added to them". "As a result of this step, many people expressed their desire to be in fellowship with such preachers and this led to regular gatherings together of small assemblies in homes for worship and study of God's word. The reason for meeting in homes was primarily because it is scriptural, the Christians during the first centuries of the Christian era met regularly for worship in homes, which fact is also borne out and supported by church history. Thus after serious consideration, the leaders were confident that in their efforts to follow the early Christians they should form church gatherings in homes; therefore no church property or real estate has been acquired by purchase or otherwise, and for this reason incorporation and registration under a denominational name has not been necessary. The meetings continue to the present time in homes and are under the guidance of local Elders. Baptism by immersion and the weekly observance of the Lord's Supper is taught and practiced." ~~ August, 1954: Testimony of Ida West from North Ireland An interested person has asked me to tell my story with regard to my faith and the fellowship I have kept. My parents were John and Sarah West brought up in the Church of Ireland (Anglican). My father, for a time previous to his marriage, moved and worked among the Methodists. Soon after his marriage in 1901, he, Edward Cooney, Tom Betty and others, all of whom used to evangelize together, moved out of the sects to which they belonged, Church of Ireland, Methodist, Presbyterian and so on, into fellowship with William Irvine, a Scottish Presbyterian evangelist in the Faith Mission, who was with others moving out of Faith Mission toward clearer light on New Testament teaching and practices.They took the view that Christendom was confusion of which God was not the author. So they decided to go to Christendom and the world the way Jesus sent his apostles to Israel (Matthew 10) and to the world (Matthew 28). This is what the preachers did. My father, who did not go to preach, opened his heart and home to these preachers who sold their possessions, scattered their money to the poor and went out to preach by faith. Their message was repent, believe the gospel, follow the teaching and example of New Testament founders--Christ and the apostles. This move raised the opposition of clergy and leaders among the denominations, e.g. Church of Ireland, Methodists, Presbyterians, Salvation Army, Plymouth Brethren and others. The young movement held the course to take was 'Come out of Babylon' which is confusion. By this they meant to refuse fellowship with the world, false teachers and systems because they contradicted the teaching and example of Christ and his apostles. Their opponents held that it was better to stay in and clean up inside; but they ignored the fact that principalities and powers need exposure and triumphing over (Col. 2:15). This could only be done by a fuller manifestation of Christ through willing witnesses which this people proved by bearing their cross representing Christ as He in bearing his cross represented or declared the Father. The movement grew and spread rapidly.
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Post by nathan on Aug 20, 2017 16:10:19 GMT -5
6/25/21
fixit/2x2 church elder said: Nathan is not a Christian, because he believes God and Jesus live inside Venus and angels fly in and out on spaceships. ~~ Openingact34 wrote: Realistically, most Christians would consider your opposition to the trinity to be a much bigger blasphemy than Nathan's claims about Jesus's space station in hollow Venus. For most of modern history, it would have been the difference between being burned at the stake vs being flogged or tortured with hot irons. Even today, I suspect the exes and TLC crowd would have to admit that you are less Christian in doctrine. If you don't believe Jesus is God you go straight to hell per God's loving followers. Adding a few spaceships and six-fingered aliens into the gospel isn't a serious doctrinal issue by comparison.
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Post by Grant on Aug 20, 2017 16:33:44 GMT -5
To say the workers came down the Waldensian line because 2 workers went to Keswick convention which was part of the holiness movement, on one or two occasions is to say that all churches come from the Waldensians because keswick is a mainstream Christian convention.
Saying that we are copying the apostolic ministry doesn't make it so. Saying we are trying to copy it is being honest, not that we are it or are copying it, but trying to. Most churches are doing this more accurately than the workers. Churches have their missionaries, they have their pastors, elders etc.
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Post by nathan on Aug 20, 2017 17:25:20 GMT -5
To say the workers came down the Waldensian line because 2 workers went to Keswick convention which was part of the holiness movement, on one or two occasions is to say that all churches come from the Waldensians because keswick is a mainstream Christian convention. Saying that we are copying the apostolic ministry doesn't make it so. Saying we are trying to copy it is being honest, not that we are it or are copying it, but trying to. Most churches are doing this more accurately than the workers. Churches have their missionaries, they have their pastors, elders etc. Like I told you to READ and compare the Vaudois doctrines and belief.... Vs... the early 2x2 workers teachings...... The taste is in the pudding.... Most of the current workers and the friends KNOW we have the same spirits as those in the 1st century!
Do you KNOW of any church out there today that has the New Testament 2x2 apostolic ministry like the workers and worship gathering in the homes of believers? Can you show me who they are? Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 18:47:48 GMT -5
John Govan's Faith Mission was a mainstream Protestant missionary organisation. William Irvine and Co did not agree with it so broke away from mainstream Christianity. They did not plan ahead about what to do with their converts because it appeared that they expected everyone to become a workers. Not scriptural, fellowship is. You have given no proof that the workers were ever part of the Waldensians. John Govan wasn't. After all these years surely you would have found something. All you have done is prove that the workers are another break away protestant denomination. The Holy Spirit has been working in the lives of men and women since Jesus day. Not in a particular little group of Waldensians and later the mantle being passed onto the workers. It has been revealing Jesus to people. Jesus is not a way but the way. The holiness movement is part of mainstream Christianity of which the workers claim to have no part of. neither is there anything like main stream churches in the bible...
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 20, 2017 19:49:41 GMT -5
Nate, I have not seen a copy of this letter, and I'd like to read it, and also post it on TTT. I have G. Walker's 1942 letter to Selective Service, but it doesnt mention Wm Irvine or the Faith Mission, does not give dates of 1898-1900, and GW wrote it: "for the purpose of enabling the Local Draft Boards to correctly classify Ministers of this Church throughout the United States who are subject to the Selective Service Laws" (not to help the professing men). Nate, I would greatly appreciate it if you could email a scanned copy of this other letter you say you have to: truth@tellingthetruth.info so I can make it available to everyone. Thanx, CK 1942 Letter image: www.tellingthetruth.info/plogger/index.php?level=picture&id=1195 (click next to see pages 2 and 3) 1942 Letter transcript: www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_early/walkergeo.php#SelectiveExcerpt: "We take this opportunity to state that during the closing years of the last century and the first years of this century a number of people in the British Isles and in America were exercised in heart and mind, through their study of the Scriptures, in regard to the methods of preaching and worship in the several churches of which they were then members. They were deeply concerned about spiritual things, and became fully convinced that there should be a return to the methods and purposes taught and carried out by Christ and His first disciples. This conviction led to frequent earnest conversations and studies on the subject, which in turn led to religious meetings, and in due time a number of these people went forth to devote their lives to the preaching of the Gospel according to the teaching and example of Christ as given in the New Testament, i.e., "two by two" and without salary or making appeals for financial assistance, putting implicit trust in God and His promise that as they "sought first the Kingdom of God" their natural needs of food and raiment "would be added to them". "As a result of this step, many people expressed their desire to be in fellowship with such preachers and this led to regular gatherings together of small assemblies in homes for worship and study of God's word. The reason for meeting in homes was primarily because it is scriptural, the Christians during the first centuries of the Christian era met regularly for worship in homes, which fact is also borne out and supported by church history. Thus after serious consideration, the leaders were confident that in their efforts to follow the early Christians they should form church gatherings in homes; therefore no church property or real estate has been acquired by purchase or otherwise, and for this reason incorporation and registration under a denominational name has not been necessary. The meetings continue to the present time in homes and are under the guidance of local Elders. Baptism by immersion and the weekly observance of the Lord's Supper is taught and practiced." It was the same letter in 1942.... But I couldn't remember the exact year so I wrote in 1940s. The early workers did NOT hide the history of the early days! many writings have been passing on to the friends for years... They just did NOT have internet back in those days so the friends or workers can preserve these writings like we do today!This is a classic example of how nathan adds to things to try and justify his views ! Facts don't matter.
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 20, 2017 19:52:32 GMT -5
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Post by Grant on Aug 20, 2017 19:57:33 GMT -5
John Govan's Faith Mission was a mainstream Protestant missionary organisation. William Irvine and Co did not agree with it so broke away from mainstream Christianity. They did not plan ahead about what to do with their converts because it appeared that they expected everyone to become a workers. Not scriptural, fellowship is. You have given no proof that the workers were ever part of the Waldensians. John Govan wasn't. After all these years surely you would have found something. All you have done is prove that the workers are another break away protestant denomination. The Holy Spirit has been working in the lives of men and women since Jesus day. Not in a particular little group of Waldensians and later the mantle being passed onto the workers. It has been revealing Jesus to people. Jesus is not a way but the way. The holiness movement is part of mainstream Christianity of which the workers claim to have no part of. neither is there anything like main stream churches in the bible... Mainstream Christianity is the body of Christ. If you are not a part of the body of Christ then what are you part of? You are another denomination started by a man or men. The JWs and Mormons also claim to not be a part of mainstream Christianity but believe that they alone are the sole body of Christ. Nathan, from your post above. Many, many churches have home group meetings. They are nothing new. As long as I have been in mainstream churches I have attended home group meetings for Bible study and worship. The church which the apostles started began in homes until the numbers got bigger and they met in larger building. That is the same as any church starting up. Many churches start in homes until the numbers grow or if there is persecution. You need to go to Israel and see the early meeting places where they met. These began to be known as churches. Do you think the New Testament Christians only met in homes or met in larger places as the numbers grew. Imagine if you only ever met with your Sunday morning group and did not have larger gatherings seeing you do not think Christians should meet in building larger than homes.
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Post by nathan on Aug 20, 2017 20:18:40 GMT -5
neither is there anything like main stream churches in the bible... Mainstream Christianity is the body of Christ. If you are not a part of the body of Christ then what are you part of? You are another denomination started by a man or men. The JWs and Mormons also claim to not be a part of mainstream Christianity but believe that they alone are the sole body of Christ. Nathan, from your post above. Many, many churches have home group meetings. They are nothing new. As long as I have been in mainstream churches I have attended home group meetings for Bible study and worship. The church which the apostles started began in homes until the numbers got bigger and they met in larger building. That is the same as any church starting up. Many churches start in homes until the numbers grow or if there is persecution. You need to go to Israel and see the early meeting places where they met. These began to be known as churches. Do you think the New Testament Christians only met in homes or met in larger places as the numbers grew. Imagine if you only ever met with your Sunday morning group and did not have larger gatherings seeing you do not think Christians should meet in building larger than homes. Yes, I know and read of many home churches but I want you to show me a group has home churches gathering and Two and Two apostolic ministry like the 2x2 workers as co-workers 24/7 as long their health holds out, not just being with one another for a few years then go back home. Can you name ONE group practice this kind of ministry, today!
Get back to me when you find one, ok. Thanks.
The more people/friends we have then more homes will open up for Sunday morning meetings. Just like in Portland city there are over 100s friends in Portland area so there are 6 churches. It was about 8 churches 25 years ago. A home should have about 20 friends so each can take parts in the meetings, don't want it too big.
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Post by Grant on Aug 21, 2017 1:09:17 GMT -5
I am not interested in some church which focuses on externals such as going out 2x2 and then claims it is the apostolic church. I'm interested in a church where the Holy Spirit is working. Your church appears to be largely dying out. The church which I go to has well over 1,000 people attending the one church each Sunday and over 50 homes meetings in the area each week where the workers have 1 or at the most 2 meetings on a Sunday. As I said there are plenty of missionaires out there. The workers are hardly missionaires any more, they act as pastors. Since when do pastors have to live with people or go out 2x2.
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Post by nathan on Aug 21, 2017 7:40:14 GMT -5
1. We partake of the Lord’s Supper as embodied beings.
The Communion meal involves us in and embraces us in God’s grace. We are not mere observers. We do something. We eat something. We become participants in the story. Again and again John Calvin speaks of the Supper as a banquet in which we feed on Christ. “Our souls are fed by the flesh and blood of Christ,” he says, “in the same way that bread and wine keep and sustain physical life.”
The French Confession of Faith of 1559 says, “The body and the blood of Jesus Christ give food and drink to the soul, no less than bread and wine nourish the body” (Åò37). We are often quick to talk about being fed by the word of God, or we pray that we might be fed by the word as it is preached. In the same way, we can be fed by Communion. As physical food, bread and wine satisfy our bodies with carbohydrates, sugars, and nutrients; as spiritual food, they satisfy our souls with Christ.
2. The Lord’s Supper reminds us we depend on God for sustenance.
Every meal—not just Communion, but including Communion—is a reminder that we are dependent on God as creatures. We are not self-sustaining. Much of our food is grown, processed, distributed, and possibly cooked by other people. We are part of a complex web of relationships upon which we rely day by day. And behind them all is our loving Creator, who generously provides for the needs of his creation.
This is why Jesus taught us to pray, “Give us this day our daily bread” (Matt. 6:11). But the Communion meal is special. For Communion is also a recognition that we are dependent on God not just as creatures but also as sinners. We live through the death of his Son. Each mouthful is a reminder that we cannot save ourselves. Just as we rely on daily bread for physical life, so we rely on Jesus for spiritual life. For he is the bread of life.
3. The Lord’s Supper can be a model for our everyday suppers.
What we learn and practice around the Communion table is meant to spill out into the rest of our lives. The grace we receive at Communion is meant to shape the way we relate to other people. One of the main ways we can do that is through meals. The saying of grace at every family meal is energized by the focus on grace at the Communion meal. Every meal becomes an occasion for gratitude. But Communion also helps our meals become occasions for giving. Meals are a powerful expression of welcome and friendship in every culture. So eating with people creates community and proclaims grace.
10. The Lord’s Supper looks ahead.
The Lord’s Supper also points forward to the final eternal banquet promised by Isaiah. Luke’s account of the Last Supper is bookended by references to Christ’s return (Luke 22:14–18, 28–30). Jesus says, “I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God” (Luke 22:16; also v. 18). Just as Jesus eagerly desired to eat the first Lord’s Supper with his friends (Luke 22:15), so now he eagerly waits to eat the eternal Supper with his bride. Paul would later say that in the Communion meal we proclaim the Lord’s death “until he comes” (1 Cor. 11:26).
www.crossway.org/articles/10-things-you-should-know-about-the-lords-supper/
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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 21, 2017 8:38:08 GMT -5
There are two kinds of Apostles, which means messenger. Those Jesus personally called and those sent by others; e.g. a king sending a messenger. There were 14 apostles called by Jesus, less 1 (Judas) = 13 (including Paul) who were among the original Apostleship group, who with the prophets are the foundation, and Jesus the chief corner stone.
The other so-called apostles in the NT and elsewhere, even today, are representatives or emissaries chosen by various other individuals or churches.
Jesus' so-called "apostolic ministry" as you call it, only includes the original Apostles who were personally called by Jesus, and it ceased with the deaths of the apostles. After the Prophets and Apostles died out, there were evangelists, pastors and teachers (Eph 4:11).
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Post by Grant on Aug 21, 2017 16:23:13 GMT -5
Nathan, as far as I know all the apostles are dead but the Christian church is alive and well.
As Jesus said, Even the gates of HELL can NOT prevail against it. And He will be with them until the end of the age." Did Jesus LIE to us? Do you think? I don't THINK so.
No Jesus did not lie but I am wondering if you think he did because you claim the 2x2s are the apostolic church when the truth is your church only started 117 years or so ago. Even Review is honest enough to admit that one.
Like I said the Christian church has never died out as Jesus said it would not. Your church did not exist back then so it can not be the apostolic church.
As for numbers, you mentioned the numbers of those in your church in the Portland area so I mentioned the numbers in my area. How many are a few? My Bible tells me it's a multitude which no man can number. Easy to count the few professing people who have ever professed in your church. Again the church cannot be yours alone.
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Post by nathan on Aug 21, 2017 17:00:33 GMT -5
1) 11/22/22 Intels wrote: So, you are saying that Jesus Christ is/was Yahweh?
~~ Nathan: Yes, that is what I am saying... Christ/God the Co-Creator of the Universe and mankind with God the Father. Christ/God came down from heaven in the person Jesus/Yashua God/Man to die and atonement for our sins of disobedience, rebellion against God started in the Garden of Eden by Adam and Eve. Their mortal sins passed unto their humans children and that is us. Jesus of the New Testament, and "Yahweh/God Christ" of the Old Testament are one and the same BEING/Spirit.
Yahweh is The Creator: Isa.40:28 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Creator: John 1:3 (Jesus) Yahweh is the First and Last: Isa. 41:4 44:6 (Yahweh) Jesus is the First and Last: Rev. 1:17 2:8 & 22:13 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Lord of Lords: Deut. 10:17 (Yahweh) Jesus is the Lord of Lords: 1 Tim. 6:15 (Jesus) Yahweh is the Savior: Isa 45:21 43:11 (Yahweh) Jesus is the Savior. John 4:42 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Light: Psa. 27:1, Isa. 60: 19-20 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Light. John 1:1-9 & 8:12 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Shepherd: Ps. 23:1 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Shepherd: John 10:11 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Glory of God: Isa. 42:8 48:11 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Glory of God: John 17:1, 5 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Redeemer: Isa. 41:14, Jer. 50:34, (Yahweh) Jesus is The Redeemer: Rev. 5:9 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Rock: Ps. 18:2 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4 (Jesus) Yahweh is the Creator of angels: Psa. 148:5 (Yahweh) Jesus is the Creator of Angels: Col. 1:16 (Jesus) Yahweh is The I AM: Ex. 3:14 (Yahweh) Jesus is The I AM: John 8:58 18:5,6 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Bridegroom: Isa. 62:5 Hosea 2:16 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Bridegroom: Rev. 21: 2, Matt. 25:11 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Judge: Joel 3:12 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Judge: John 5:27 Matt. 25:31-46 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Forgiver of sins: Jere. 31:34 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Forgiver of sins: Mark 2:7, 10 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Holy One: Isa. 43:3 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Holy One: Acts 3:14 (Jesus) Both Raised the dead: 1 Sam2:6 (Yahweh) John 5:21 (Jesus) Both were Worshiped by angels: Ps. 148:2 (Yahweh) Heb. 1:6 (Jesus) Both are confessed as LORD - Every knee is going to bow and every tongue confess Isa. 45:21-23 (Yahweh); Phil2:9-11 (Jesus) 2) Intel wrote: Humm seems kind of strange to me. If you are talking about a particular man with the first name of Jesus/Joshau, then I think you mean Jesus Pantera and to the best of my knowledge no one ever claimed he was also Yahweh. And when you throw Christ into the mix, well that's a title not a surname. All-in-all very confusing when you speak Nathan. We will pray for you that Zeus heals your mind. ~~ Nathan: NOT Strange at all, you are an atheist so you don't believe Christ is God and He is Jesus the Creator of all things, and the believers Redeemer and Savior. However, Christ is God incarnate in the Person Jesus. Matthew 1:23 351 Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ Prophecy Description Fulfillment 1. Gen 3:15 Seed of a woman (virgin birth) Gal 4:4-5; Matt 1:18 2. Gen 3:15 He will bruise Satan's head Heb 2:14; 1 John 3:8 3. Gen 5:24 The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated Mark 16:19 4. Gen 9:26-27 The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem Luke 3:36 5. Gen 12:3 Seed of Abraham will bless all nations Gal 3:8; Acts 3:25-26 6. Gen 12:7 The Promise made to Abraham's Seed Gal 3:16 7. Gen 14:18 A priest after the order of Melchizedek Heb 6:20 8. Gen 14:18 King of Peace and Righteousness Heb 7:2 9. Gen 14:18 The Last Supper foreshadowed Matt 26:26-29 10. Gen 17:19 Seed of Isaac (Gen 21:12) Rom 9:7 11. Gen 22:8 The Lamb of God promised John 1:29 12. Gen 22:18 As Isaac's seed, will bless all nations Gal 3:16 13. Gen 26:2-5 The Seed of Isaac promised as the Redeemer Heb 11:18 14. Gen 28:12 The Bridge to heaven John 1:51 15. Gen 28:14 The Seed of Jacob Luke 3:34 16. Gen 49:10 The time of His coming Luke 2:1-7; Gal 4:4 17. Gen 49:10 The Seed of Judah Luke 3:33 18. Gen 49:10 Called Shiloh or One Sent John 17:3 19. Gen 49:10 Messiah to come before Judah lost identity John 11:47-52 20. Gen 49:10 Unto Him shall the obedience of the people be John 10:16 21. Ex 3:13-15 The Great "I AM" John 4:26; 8:58 www.newtestamentchristians.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/351-Old-Testament-Prophecies-Fulfilled-in-Jesus-Christ1.pdfThere are 3 that bear records in heaven God the Father, Christ the Word and Holy Spirit. (I John 5:7) ~~ Jesus Christ the I AM that I AM Almighty God.
1) John the apostle wrote it so clearly in John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God. He was in the World, and the World was MADE by Him, and the world knew him NOT. And the Word was made flesh and dwell among us. The Word was WITH God, and the Word WAS God. Who do you SAY the Word is? Jesus! Read Rev. 19:11-16 And I/John saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. 2) Jesus said in 95 A.D. Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Rev. 11:16-17 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and Worshiped God, saying: “We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. Rev. 21:6,7 He/Christ that sat on the throne said unto me, "It is done, I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end." I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be MY Son." 3) John the apostle wrote in the gospel of John 5:17-18 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. John 10:25-33 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” 4) Paul wrote in I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the Flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, PREACHED to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory. 5) The apostle Thomas said to Jesus after the resurrection, "My Lord and My God" in John 20:24-29. Jesus did NOT say don't call me Lord and God but accepted the title which Thomas called Him. 6) Mary the mother of Jesus said about the unborn Son in Luke 1:46-47 “My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior." 7) Paul wrote Col. 2:8 For in Him/Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. ALL of the Angels in heaven, millions Saved people, Worship/Singing praises of the Lord God Almighty Jesus, the Lamb of God....
Revelation chapter 4:8-11 “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.” Revelation chapter 5:9-13 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and has Redeemed us to God by thy BLOOD, out of every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.” Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb, be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!” John 8:58 Is Jesus claiming to be eternal or just pre-existent? Someone wrote: Jesus said to the Jews, "I will tell you the truth.... Before Abraham was born, I am!" some misunderstanding this verse to mean that Jesus was just claiming preexistence before Abraham. The context, however, shows that Jesus was pointing not only to his preexistence before Abraham but also to His Eternally! After all, the term I am! points back to God's name in Exodus 3:14 a name that conveys the idea of Eternal self-existence. Yahweh (the I AM that I AM) never came into being at a point in time, for He has always existed. To know Yahweh is to know the Eternal one. In other words, Abraham's existence was created and finite, beginning at a point in time, but Christ's existence NEVER began, is uncreated and infinite, and is therefore ETERNAL. God the Father, Christ/the Son are distinct Persons within the unity of the ONE God. (John 3:16,17; 7:29; 8:55; 10:15;11:41,42) God is a spirit (John 4:24), and a spirit does not have flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39). John's Gospel makes it clear that Jesus' mission was to reveal the Father to mankind: "No man has ever seen God (the Father) but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." (John 1:18)/ That's why Jesus could say that when a man looks at Jesus, "he sees the one (the Father) who sent me" (John 12:45). And that's why Jesus could affirm, "Whosoever accepts me accepts Him (the Father) who sent me" (John 13:20). To make the point again in his conversation, “Before Abraham was “I Am” (Jn. 8:58). He is saying “Yahweh is my name.” He is not saying that he existed from or before Abrahams time. Jesus has made a definitive statement that before Abraham came into existence or was born He (Jesus) was there I have existed before all ages, before anything was created. It speaks of an eternal existence without respect to time of which only God can exist. Psalm 90:2: "From everlasting to everlasting thou art God." We can only come to the conclusion that the “I AM” statements of Jesus were intentional, communicating what they were familiar with from Old Testament teachings and practices to prove the deity of Jesus the Christ to those who could hear his spiritual speech. "I AM God" is his name forever (Heb. Hayah ashur hayah, Gr. ego eimei; Exod. 3:14-15 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." 'The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.”
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Post by pa on Aug 22, 2017 19:14:48 GMT -5
Nathan in all love I write this to you.
You can claim and write anything on here and on your website but only if you are willing for critical peer review will anything you write have any credibility. I repeat ONLY IF YOU ARE WILLING FOR CRITICAL SCRUTINY BY PEER REVIEW.
You refer to the 1942 Letter of G. Walker and did not even do the research to verify the true date. That undermines your credibility. You then go on to make assumptions & deductions from that letter and make statements as if it was written in that letter. That undermines your credibility. You then take scrutiny by Cherie and others as personal attack, which undermines your credibility. A true scholar takes critical scrutiny by peers serious and amend their research to align closer to the truth or evidence. Historic facts are an exact account of events.
Now you don't have many peers in the field of history research regarding the 2x2's however Cherie surely must be one of the most distinguished peers in that field. I know for sure she takes proof of everything she puts on TTT very seriously through thorough research and she is happy to show the proof. The snippets of history that I have heard as a teenager in the 70's (from the old 75+yo workers) of the first wave of workers to the colonies all line up with Cherie's research. She has done you a favour in reviewing some of your claims here, so IMHO you will do yourself a favour to take her reviews on-board.
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Post by nathan on Aug 22, 2017 20:35:02 GMT -5
7/11/20 Annan said: I never put a hex/curse on anyone. Why are you bullying me, Nathan?
** NathanB. You are lying again and your nose is growing like Pinocco every day... You must remember the so-call hex/curse poem on me and another time you told us you put a curse/hexed on so and so who hurt someone you love and the curse worked. WERE you lying to us when you told us the story? 2) Annan said 7/11/2020: You are correct. I put a binding spell on someone once as they did something against my daughter. What I did NOT do was put a spell/hex on you, but you keep believing it. Just another part of your delusion. I know you have problems understanding English, Nathan. Let me try again. Yes. I put a binding spell on someone who hurt my daughter. The binding spell was a protection spell of sorts. It was designed to wrap the offender up in their own wrong doing. In other words, when they tried to hurt my daughter again, their wrong doing backfired on them. They either learn to quit or do themselves in. Very simply really. ~~ NathanB: There you go! You did cast a spell/hex on someone before you put a hex on me and you claim it wasn't a hex but your poem/and YOU said it's a hex and you even said so yourself in your post, but now you denied it. 1) Annan wrote: Prove I cast a spell.2) Nathan: Here it is Anna wrote in 2/20/20 Lord of Darkness hear my plea. The spell below on Nathan please.I tie your fingers in a knot. You cannot type or wipe your snot. You cannot post, no not word. You cannot see, your eyes are blurred. For a year... make that a day. That Nathan cannot work or play. So mote it be! Worth a try. You never know. ~~ Slowtosee: What if it backfires on you/Annan? 11/28/22 Annan wrote: Why are you so afraid of a silly poem, Natie? What is it about witches that scares you silly? We all remember how you worked yourself into a tizzy till you blew a gasket and started threatening people and were given time off the forum and a warning. What happened? You claim witchcraft/spells can't harm a Christian. So then why did you fly off the handle and lose your sanity over a silly little poem? Seems you brought all that trouble on yourself because of some deep seated fear. Do you not trust your god to protect you as you claim? Are you a liar, Nathan? ~~ Wally wrote: It wasn't a poem, lying witch... Anna wrote said: Only in your mind, Natie. And I never said my parents professed. More lies. 1) Wally: Okay that is a lie, Annan... Mar 17, 2022 at 6:14am Annan said:"I remember when my dad found out the truth about the cult's beginnings. He was devastated. Imagine everything you believed and staked your life on being ripped out from under you." He asked the workers if it was true that the way didn't extend back to the shores of Galilee. He was told it doesn't, but that the workers lead people to believe it does. At least he got an honest answer. My father says he believes what the workers preach, but that he no longer professes as he can't wash away the stain of sin/their lie. His hurt was profound. Nathan's lies only make things worse. *** Nathan: Thanks, Wally. See! I told you/Witch...some people remembered what you wrote on here also, Blonde. Are you saying you did NOT write the above post about your professing father believed the workers lied to him about the early days worker Truth and Way of Jesus 2x2 Ministry and the New Testament fellowship goes back to Jesus/Shore of Galilee? 12/28/21 Wally wrote to Annan/the Witch
Why did you get fired failed employee? Why have you failed as a mother? You should be tending to your atheist children instead of on here stalking Nathan. Why Have you failed as a witch? None of your family has become one. Why have you failed as a wife? You should be tending your disabled veteran husband instead of on here stalking Nathan. Why have you failed as a Jew? You didn't even convert your family to Judaism. Why did you fail as a daughter? You could have saved your father from leaving the truth. Why did you fail as a human being? You spend all your time here stalking Nathan is that why you got fired? Why witch Why? 7/24/2021 Dan said:
It makes no sense to criticize someone for something you have never done. Many people that offer for the Work don't stay in for life, but one should respect the effort and self-sacrifice regardless. One of my sisters did 15 years in the Work, she helped and encouraged a lot of people prior to leaving and getting married. Its not an easy thing, anyone with the faith to tackle it ought to be commended. Its easy to throw stones from the cheap seats on the sideline, but its important to recognize and appreciate those who contributed something of which we were incapable or unwilling to do ourselves. Nathan has obviously not lost his zest for spreading the gospel, whether one agrees with everything or not. Hope everyone can disagree without attacking? 1) Annan the Witch Wrote: PERFORMING MY WATCHMAN DUTIES FOR ANY NEWBIE TO THE FORUM READING NATHAN’S POSTS. WHY NATHAN IS A LYING HYPOCRITE… ~~ Nathan: You are a watchman from Hell a Lying Witch. You cast spells on people to harm them and you denied that you did it. God hates Witches. God Hates Witchcraft - Exodus 22:18
With each passing year, witchcraft has grown more acceptable in the eyes of man, yet God has not wavered concerning His thoughts on these matters. In the Old Testament, being a witch (Exodus 22:18; Leviticus 20:27) and seeking after a witch (Leviticus 20:6-7) were both crimes worthy of death. Even in the age where grace is much more evident, God calls witchcraft a work of the flesh and declares plainly that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:20-21; Revelation 22:15). Not only should believers avoid the practice of such wickedness, they should also refuse to “have pleasure in them that do them” (Romans 1:32) regardless of how innocently they are packaged to make them look harmless. (For children): Read Psalm 7:11 and Proverbs 17:11. God likens witchcraft to rebellion (1 Samuel 15:23). He will judge it (Micah 5:12, 15). During Jonah's time, Nineveh repented of her wicked ways (Jonah 3:8-10) but later turned back to them and was destroyed (Nahum 3:4, 7). (For everyone): Name some ways in which witchcraft has gained access into the homes of otherwise godly people. Has witchcraft found a way into your home as well? What steps should be taken to ensure that witchcraft does not become acceptable to your family? www.learnthebible.org/god-hates-witchcraft-exodus-2218.html-07 Things God Hates:
There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers. Proverbs 6:16-19 ~~ Jesus said in John 8:44 "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." 2) Annan the witch wrote: Nathan is NOT a worker. NATHAN WAS DRIVEN OUT OF THE WORK FOR NOT HAVING A SUBMISSIVE SPIRIT. Nathan was too cowardly to let others know he was leaving the work and so he ran away from a special meeting where he was scheduled to speak. ~~ Nathan reply: You show NO Proof that I was driven out of the work. I left it on my own free will. 3) Nathan’s own wife and son do not profess. Nathan married his non-professing wife despite the workers’ objections and SCRIPTURE COMMANDS NOT TO BE YOKED WITH AN UNBELIEVER. I Cor. 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. ~~ Nathan: You are taken this verse out of context. Some of the Christians males Gentiles believers at Corinth would go to the pagan temple prostitutes to release their sexual urges and desires. Paul explained to those male believers NOT to have sexual relationship with the pagans prostitutes. Here is the rest of the verses For what partnership can righteousness have with wickedness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?… verses 15-20 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. Show me in the Scriptures where it says a believer NOT to marry a nonbeliever. Paul wrote the opposite in I Cor. 7:10-15 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. 4) Annan the Witch: Nathan claims certain workers SHOULD BE HUNG as he says they preach false 2x2 doctrine. Nathan teaches doctrine contrary to what the workers teach. NATHAN IS A SELF-APPOINTED WORKER INTERNET TROLL. ~~ 1) Dan from TMB wrote 9/2020 :
A big deal and a lot of fuss has been made over that simple statement... I would suggest taking it as a harsh figure of speech that's not taken literally, but just a dysphemism instead of a euphemism. I'm sure Nathan was not suggesting that "Someone should get a rope!".... But figuratively expressing his disapproval of those who spew the anti-trinity doctrine. When one denounces the divinity of Christ, and they don't believe that "I and my Father are one" or "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father", then from a spiritual perspective, they are essentially hanging themselves. If Christ were just a man separate from the Father, he'd have no power or authority to save anyone, nor could he be our intercessory for prayer. He was a divine sacrifice from the onset.. "His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life" (2 Peter 1:3). My comment was speculative, but generally people aren't being literally serious when they use an expression like that. It would be like me saying that anyone who voted for Biden ought to be hung.. That would generally just be construed as an off-handed comment expressing my disapproval of Biden.. Likewise, Nathan was a Worker and I'm sure considers co-Workers friends, so commonsense would dictate that he wasn't literally advocating for the hanging of anyone. I didn't see the post, but I'm convinced it was just a figure of speech used to emphasize his disagreement with the anti-trinity doctrine. Example; If I were diametrically opposed to Catholicism, I might say "All Catholics ought to be taken out and shot", but I certainly wouldn't anticipate anyone blowing it out of perspective and taking me literally. Such is the case with Nathan's comment, the objections to it have been way over-blown, and I'm sure no one sincerely believes he was serious. ~~ Nathan: Amen, Dan... some People like Annan, a proclaim Witch and those like her on here take my posts out of context on here many times and they repeat it over and over when I already explained to them many times in the past. Jesus often use figure of speech like in Jesus said in Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Jesus/God said to the church at Pergamos in Rev. 2:14-16 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Jesus’ Use of Figurative Language Use of Figurative Language Including Notes from The Method and Message of Jesus/ Teaching by Robert H. Stein www.eldrbarry.net/clas/gb/b26figure.pdfJesus used Figure of speech now.... So, those who have taught false anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God doctrine would REPENT! of their sins and STOP preaching their false teachings to God's people and to the world like sowing TARES among the Wheat. God and Christ give them a second opportunity to change their false teachings they have taught... And if they don't change it will be their REALITY of hanging/cast in the lake of fire after the day of judgement. ~~ Magie wrote: Nathan, this time I agree with you, many wont and even hit you with their no God attitude. It is one of the most important greatest subjects to any Christians life. God is God, Jesus is God, Holy (GOD'S) Spirit he is God. The only unforgivable sin spoken of in the scriptures is "BLASPHEMING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT" So not accepting His Deity is absolute blasphemy, isn't it? If you are blinded to that it would come from your Ministries teaching or Satan. G'day to you Nathan. Magpie. 5) Annan the Witch: Nathan was NOT born and bred in the cult. He is without understanding of what others have suffered at the hands of a lying and controlling cult. Nathan constantly spouts lies about the origins of the cult when there is paramount proof this is not true. ~~ Nathan: Here is my understanding about the origins and history of the 2x2 church in 1898 to now and the 2x2s prior to the Faith Mission in 1866 and the 2x2s Vaudois from 68-1800 A.D. professing.proboards.com/thread/25658/nathan-time-line-irvine-founder?page=1&scrollTo=7481726) Annan the Witch: Nathan is NOT a 2x2 but a 1x1 preaching science fiction and FRANK STRANGES FAKE DEAD SEA SCROLLS GOSPEL AND JESUS LIVES IN VENUS. ~~ Nathan: Jesus said in Rev. 22:16 " I, Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and/from the bright and morning star= (the Planet Venus/Paradise in heaven.) Rev. 2:26-28 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. In 1957 President Eisenhower asked Valiant Thor, "Which planet are you from?" He said, "I am from the planet your Bible calls the Bright and Morning Star." President said, "You mean the planet Venus." Val said, "Yes, sir." 2/2018 Major UFO Disclosure - An Intelligence briefing/information was revealed to President Jimmy Carter that Jesus Christ was A Visitor from the Interior planet of Venus=the Bright and Morning Star/Paradise in heaven. President said, "How are we going to tell people that!" ~~ Here is Pastor Frank Stranges' Testimony When and Where he Met the Venusian human looking Guardian angel Valiant Thor from Interior planet of Venus in 1957-2008 In 1959 Valiant Thor told him he is from Interior planet of Venus, which our Bible calls the Bright and morning Star/Paradise in heaven. 30 second into the tape. Valiant Thor is married, his wife name is Deanna and they have 1 daughter. 36:30 How Frank S. came to receive his special Dead Sea Scrolls.... listen at 51:32 youtu.be/OQzhTqh1z_U ~~ Here is a book written by Frank Stranges: Stranger/ET/Valiant Thor at the Pentagon published 1967 History of Valiant Thor From Interior Planet of Venus/heaven and the THOR family. (Page 80-83) A very long time ago, Commander Val/Valiant Thor was an instructor (at what we would consider a University level) on Venus. Bear in mind that he is one of those beings who was directly created by the Hand of Almighty God Himself. There are times when one such as Val will elect to attach himself to parents of other children, usually because there is a kinship of thoughts and ideas that together they can perpetuate the Glory of Almighty God throughout the universe. Therefore, Val is considered one who was created by The Father, yet NOT in as high a position as Jesus Christ because Jesus Christ came to Earth as the very EMBODIMENT OF THE CREATOR OF CREATORS. Val is in a special class by himself. Yet, because of a desire to be a part of a special Venusian family, he has also taken upon himself the pleasure of having a ready-made family; namely, Donn, Thonn and Doc. These are all fellow members of the THOR family. In the beginning, Val was called VALIANT After attaching himself to the family, he then adopted their name THOR. archive.org/details/stranger-at-the-pentagon/page/15/mode/2up?view=theater
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