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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 12, 2017 3:36:05 GMT -5
You're wrong Review, very wrong. Unless I have been ex-communicated but not advised yet.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 12, 2017 4:20:33 GMT -5
Ros, That you would draw out of the factual story of people's spiritual experience that I am judging other churches doesn't concern me. You don't seem to grasp the wisdom of the adage 'people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones'. You are proficient in making incorrect and sometimes outrageous judgmental statements about the church you left and now despise. If you wish me to copy and paste a dozen or so of such posts here I'll do that for you. Still dodging the question I see @review005 ! Sure post some incorrect statements I have made about your church, I would be interested to see what you believe to be incorrect !
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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 12, 2017 4:52:44 GMT -5
You must have missed my supportive posts. Ah, the world of social media. Add to your faith,virtual reality? Interesting to be judged as an ex, and disaffected, even!
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Post by snow on Jul 12, 2017 11:38:37 GMT -5
No you haven't. But we do know that it happens in your church and my question was about the morality of it because of the supposed seriousness of leaving and eternal damnation. So it's a general question based on the fact that there have been people expelled from the Truth and others that have been shunned or made to feel like an outsider to the extent that they have left. There have been those also. But the question is an important one. How can anyone excommunicate anyone knowing the ultimate repercussions of such a thing? Don't you feel it's a good question? Based on beliefs it's a serious one to consider isn't it? Thank you for your clarification. Yes, I was referring to people who are unhappy with the doctrine and practices of our church and make a decision leave. Some join another church. There are several verses in the Bible that give the grounds and situation for excommunication. I don't have the time or interest to go into that with you. Sorry! Without doubt there will be instances of where people have been excommunicated from our church incorrectly or unjustly. I am not aware of it happening in the country I live and work in. Yes, I imagine it has happened lots of times in many different churches over the years. I know the Catholic church does it and they also believe that you can't be saved unless you're a Catholic. I have a hard time with that because these people are doing something that they believe will literally doom people to hell for eternity and they just do it anyway. Shouldn't they be concerned given their beliefs? I am so glad that there really isn't a hell so these people are just fine even if they aren't Catholic, but it's the mindset that makes it quite hard to understand. Anyway, thanks for the conversation. I'm not expecting a reply to this, it's just me musing more than anything.
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Post by snow on Jul 12, 2017 11:39:56 GMT -5
Isn't that exactly what Review005 is suggesting to anyone who says one thing against the Truth? I see anyone who disagrees with any thing within the Truth gets the same song and dance about how they might be a square peg trying to fit into a round hole or maybe you'd be happier in a different church etc. He certainly doesn't seem to feel any need to keep them and I find that odd. Given the 2x2's belief that you can't be saved unless you are in the Truth, isn't he sending them to their doom? That's why I see excommunication as so horrific given these beliefs. The workers believe that their members are in the only true way and their very salvation depends on being in the Truth. So when they excommunicate them they are in a very real sense 'damning them to hell' knowingly. Based on what they believe. Is that a decision or judgment that a human can make? It sounds cold and mean based on what they believe.
Excommunication is like cancer, it has to be cut off or the cancer spreads throughout the whole body. Just like in Acts chapter 5 with Ananias and Sapphira, who lied to the Holy Spirit.... and both died on the spot, it was a warning to others ...... God KNOWS and SEES everything, we can hide/lie to people but NOT from Him.
Maybe. But it's used to discipline, sometimes when a more loving forgiving manner would be more appropriate.
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Post by snow on Jul 12, 2017 11:53:56 GMT -5
Once again it seems my question is too hard for you to answer @review005 ! All these enlightened individuals who have found Christ & a new life in your church, surely if there are so many of them you would be telling us the numbers over the last 5 years? I don't go to any church, Agnostic would be what I would call myself We are born we live we die, make the most of each moment, live in the moment. Take responsibility for your own actions. Question everything you think you know. actually an agnostic is not sure what has happened, you would be more on your way to atheism agnostic: a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. atheist: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. I would have to say that the description of an agnostic isn't quite accurate. I was agnostic for many years. I have only been able to say I'm an atheist in the last five or so years. When I started posting here I thought of myself as agnostic. I think posting here made me realize I had progressed more into the atheist category. The more I learn and the more I have contact with theists the more I really do not believe there is a God. For many years the only theists I really had much contact with were my parents and some of the friends when I went home for visits. So not a lot really. Since I signed on here and some other religious forums/communities, I have spent more time interacting with theists than ever before. Well since I left home anyway. So in a sense I owe my atheism to theists. Talking about what I do and don't believe has helped gel things for me in the long run. But when I was agnostic I didn't believe the 'ultimate cause was God'. I just believed that there was no way to know if there was one. I felt there might be some kind of intelligence but not a personal god of any sort. Maybe more of a deist than an agnostic? I hate labels to be honest. We are all such a conglomeration of beliefs and thoughts that labeling is sometimes not effective. However, since being an atheist means that we do not believe in the existence of a supreme being or beings then the label of atheist is likely mine.
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Post by snow on Jul 12, 2017 12:02:42 GMT -5
You must have missed my supportive posts. Ah, the world of social media. Add to your faith,virtual reality? Interesting to be judged as an ex, and disaffected, even! I found when I was in the group that many times I was judged and criticized for questioning or making a suggestion I felt might help. I just put it down to being a minor the whole time and therefore not taken seriously because of my age. But when I see adults, long term members of the group being treated the same way I guess I was just one of the crew after all. I guess all members are considered children when they have suggestions and wise when they just go along with everything. Towards the end of my life at home I must have become very wise because I gave up trying to suggest anything or ask any questions anymore. I just did my time until I could graduate and leave home.
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Post by nathan on Jul 12, 2017 12:30:00 GMT -5
I found when I was in the group that many times I was judged and criticized for questioning or making a suggestion I felt might help. I just put it down to being a minor the whole time and therefore not taken seriously because of my age. But when I see adults, long term members of the group being treated the same way I guess I was just one of the crew after all. I guess all members are considered children when they have suggestions and wise when they just go along with everything. Towards the end of my life at home I must have become very wise because I gave up trying to suggest anything or ask any questions anymore. I just did my time until I could graduate and leave home. I was very fortunate to have met uncle Leo s. Who answered most of my questions about any subjects. I met some workers and they could not answers so they make me looked so stupid. After that I don't ask that worker anymore question.
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Post by snow on Jul 12, 2017 13:35:58 GMT -5
I was very fortunate to have met uncle Leo s. Who answered most of my questions about any subjects. I met some workers and they could not answers so they make me looked so stupid. After that I don't ask that worker anymore question. Yes you were lucky. I think that if I had been near some of the earlier workers there might have been some answers and not so much attempts at humiliation, shame and guilt for asking a question they didn't like or likely couldn't answer. I had moved to a new area and didn't have access to the workers I professed through. I feel Stanley Lee or Stanley Sharpe might have answered my questions. As fiery as Stanley Lee was he still seemed to care and I think would have at least tried. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Post by nathan on Jul 12, 2017 14:28:47 GMT -5
Yes you were lucky. I think that if I had been near some of the earlier workers there might have been some answers and not so much attempts at humiliation, shame and guilt for asking a question they didn't like or likely couldn't answer. I had moved to a new area and didn't have access to the workers I professed through. I feel Stanley Lee or Stanley Sharpe might have answered my questions. As fiery as Stanley Lee was he still seemed to care and I think would have at least tried. Maybe I'm wrong. My vote is stantley Sharpe because I professed through him, and he was a very kind hearted man. I wish there are more workers like Leo and stantley in our days.
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Post by snow on Jul 13, 2017 13:58:06 GMT -5
Yes you were lucky. I think that if I had been near some of the earlier workers there might have been some answers and not so much attempts at humiliation, shame and guilt for asking a question they didn't like or likely couldn't answer. I had moved to a new area and didn't have access to the workers I professed through. I feel Stanley Lee or Stanley Sharpe might have answered my questions. As fiery as Stanley Lee was he still seemed to care and I think would have at least tried. Maybe I'm wrong. My vote is stantley Sharpe because I professed through him, and he was a very kind hearted man. I wish there are more workers like Leo and stantley in our days.Did you! I loved Stanley Sharpe so much. Have very fond memories of him at our house. He liked to work and can remember him getting in there with his shirt sleeves rolled up and helping out a lot. Stanley Lee was more of a fire brand! But I loved him too. He was around our place a lot too.
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