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Post by kenco69 on Feb 8, 2017 22:03:34 GMT -5
Well as I don't mix in the right circles to hear 2x2 news I guess it will be some time
May be why convention was removed from his brother's home too
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Fermanagh
Feb 9, 2017 9:47:30 GMT -5
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Post by emerald on Feb 9, 2017 9:47:30 GMT -5
Well as I don't mix in the right circles to hear 2x2 news I guess it will be some time May be why convention was removed from his brother's home too If you think that, you really are out of the loop aren't you?!
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Post by LITTLEPADDY on Feb 9, 2017 14:55:05 GMT -5
Well as I don't mix in the right circles to hear 2x2 news I guess it will be some time May be why convention was removed from his brother's home too If you think that, you really are out of the loop aren't you?! I heard that both may be connected but I don't think so. I think they are totally separate but more to both that I haven't heard Don't believe convention was stopped over a boiler / too many conventions either Being Irish doesn't keep one in this loop you refer to
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 18:27:34 GMT -5
The friends in the area are surprised, amused, disbelieving but annoyed at the allegation and how it was made. My own personal opinion- I don't think HJ will be back in the work. I agree with your take on it. Everyone can calm down ! - there has been no crime committed here. Agree there must be a good chance that HJ won't go back in the work, which is rather sad as he's given so much of his life to it. I think it was poor the way the person made their feelings known about HJ. There are much fairer, kinder ways of tackling a grievance, that would then give the chance for everyone to go forward wiser for the experience. The actual approach smacks of being vengeful - no winners doing that.
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Fermanagh
Feb 10, 2017 18:58:02 GMT -5
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Post by iamsaved on Feb 10, 2017 18:58:02 GMT -5
In fairness HJ has been accused in other counties for being over friendly with the wives of the friends!
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Post by kenco69 on Feb 10, 2017 19:30:19 GMT -5
The friends in the area are surprised, amused, disbelieving but annoyed at the allegation and how it was made. My own personal opinion- I don't think HJ will be back in the work. I agree with your take on it. Everyone can calm down ! - there has been no crime committed here. Agree there must be a good chance that HJ won't go back in the work, which is rather sad as he's given so much of his life to it. I think it was poor the way the person made their feelings known about HJ. There are much fairer, kinder ways of tackling a grievance, that would then give the chance for everyone to go forward wiser for the experience. The actual approach smacks of being vengeful - no winners doing that. I am saddened to think that after all these years if HJ is forced to go home. As I have said before I knew him in the past and he seemed to be a man of character Nobody is prepared to say How the Person made their feelings known or what grievance they held towards HJ I see from a recent post that he had been known to be close to other men's wives in other counties (or word similar ) so has he wrongly or rightly being accused of having a relationship or taken advantage of someones wife.
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Fermanagh
Feb 11, 2017 2:22:44 GMT -5
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Post by iamsaved on Feb 11, 2017 2:22:44 GMT -5
He was a character alright! He was sent home from fermanagh because some wrote in graffiti on the meeting hall "HERBIE LEAVE MY WIFE ALONE" he has had previous experience in these areas!!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 11, 2017 3:51:06 GMT -5
I agree with your take on it. Everyone can calm down ! - there has been no crime committed here. Agree there must be a good chance that HJ won't go back in the work, which is rather sad as he's given so much of his life to it. I think it was poor the way the person made their feelings known about HJ. There are much fairer, kinder ways of tackling a grievance, that would then give the chance for everyone to go forward wiser for the experience. The actual approach smacks of being vengeful - no winners doing that. I am saddened to think that after all these years if HJ is forced to go home. As I have said before I knew him in the past and he seemed to be a man of character Nobody is prepared to say How the Person made their feelings known or what grievance they held towards HJ I see from a recent post that he had been known to be close to other men's wives in other counties (or word similar ) so has he wrongly or rightly being accused of having a relationship or taken advantage of someones wife. Kenco, a wee question for you. How can a man be "of character" if he is bothering other mens wives and has a history of this.
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Post by iamsaved on Feb 11, 2017 6:08:09 GMT -5
One has to wonder whether god has left his great work in the hands of idiots! Tommie Gamble like?! Out of every being in the world he could have chosen as his commander in chief he chose that clown!!
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Post by kenco69 on Feb 11, 2017 13:15:18 GMT -5
I am saddened to think that after all these years if HJ is forced to go home. As I have said before I knew him in the past and he seemed to be a man of character Nobody is prepared to say How the Person made their feelings known or what grievance they held towards HJ I see from a recent post that he had been known to be close to other men's wives in other counties (or word similar ) so has he wrongly or rightly being accused of having a relationship or taken advantage of someones wife. Kenco, a wee question for you. How can a man be "of character" if he is bothering other mens wives and has a history of this. very simple curlywurlysammagee you mustn't have read my post regarding Character 1/ I said I Knew Him In The Past 2/ I said Seemed To Be 3/ When I knew him that is what I thought of him 4/ People do change and also I am capable having read people wrong
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Post by Grant on Feb 11, 2017 13:16:56 GMT -5
He needs a wife of his own instead of trying to borrow others. Now he's free to get his own.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 11, 2017 13:45:54 GMT -5
Kenco, a wee question for you. How can a man be "of character" if he is bothering other mens wives and has a history of this. very simple curlywurlysammagee you mustn't have read my post regarding Character 1/ I said I Knew Him In The Past 2/ I said Seemed To Be 3/ When I knew him that is what I thought of him 4/ People do change and also I am capable having read people wrong Very true Kenco, people are not always what they seem to be. In NZ we have experienced very similar instances amongst workers. Angel on a Sunday, Leprechaun on a Monday.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 11, 2017 13:47:54 GMT -5
He needs a wife of his own instead of trying to borrow others. Now he's free to get his own. Sometimes people ask to borrow my chainsaw or trailer. I always reply by asking if I can borrow their wife.
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Post by Gene on Feb 11, 2017 19:42:13 GMT -5
He needs a wife of his own instead of trying to borrow others. Now he's free to get his own. Sometimes people ask to borrow my chainsaw or trailer. I always reply by asking if I can borrow their wife. That might be a fair trade, if the wife is willing. How powerful is the chain saw?
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Post by Admin on Feb 11, 2017 21:30:35 GMT -5
He was a character alright! He was sent home from fermanagh because some wrote in graffiti on the meeting hall "HERBIE LEAVE MY WIFE ALONE" he has had previous experience in these areas!! Oh dear, poor Herbie has been struggling with the celibate ministry it seems. Not many preachers have a gift of celibacy apparently, and we all know how strong the human need for close friendship and relationships with other humans. Sometimes platonic, sometimes not. The current strict requirements on Workers that enforce celibacy (i.e. unmarried only need apply) are unscriptural but said to be necessary for practical reasons. Maybe the practicalities need a bit of a shake up. For Workers without a gift of celibacy, or strong calling to celibate ministry, the current lifestyle is very unnatural. I feel deeply for the many in that category. That said, Worker friendships with married people should be completely open, transparent and fully above-board. Some advice for Herbie (Paul, 1Cor 7:8-9): I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.admin
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 21:38:39 GMT -5
He was a character alright! He was sent home from fermanagh because some wrote in graffiti on the meeting hall "HERBIE LEAVE MY WIFE ALONE" he has had previous experience in these areas!! Oh dear, poor Herbie has been struggling with the celibate ministry it seems. Not many preachers have a gift of celibacy apparently, and we all know how strong the human need for close friendship and relationships with other humans. Sometimes platonic, sometimes not. The current strict requirements on Workers that enforce celibacy (i.e. unmarried only need apply) are unscriptural but said to be necessary for practical reasons. Maybe the practicalities need a bit of a shake up. For Workers without a gift of celibacy, or strong calling to celibate ministry, the current lifestyle is very unnatural. I feel deeply for the many in that category. That said, Worker friendships with married people should be completely open, transparent and fully above-board. Some advice for Herbie (Paul, 1Cor 7:8-9): I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.admin i think Paul was speaking to the public in general and not to the workers in that verse...
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janj
Senior Member
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Fermanagh
Feb 12, 2017 1:11:16 GMT -5
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Post by janj on Feb 12, 2017 1:11:16 GMT -5
He needs a wife of his own instead of trying to borrow others. Now he's free to get his own. Sometimes people ask to borrow my chainsaw or trailer. I always reply by asking if I can borrow their wife. Boy...I bet that wife rushes out and buys her husband a trailer and two chainsaws!!
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janj
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Post by janj on Feb 12, 2017 1:16:15 GMT -5
He was a character alright! He was sent home from fermanagh because some wrote in graffiti on the meeting hall "HERBIE LEAVE MY WIFE ALONE" he has had previous experience in these areas!! So -someone wrote that so of course he's guilty.The assuming,presuming and judging on this board is pretty amazing!!
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Post by irvinegrey on Feb 12, 2017 11:01:08 GMT -5
If you read what I said above, you'll see I said it's difficult to prove or disprove this case. I don't think TG has ever aspired to be Sherlock Holmes. I'd say when he offered for the work, he thought he was following a calling and not in his later years, have to babysit a bunch of people that are always getting into trouble or scrapes of their own making. As for replacing him, he has a few trusted senior workers to assist him in sorting out the problems and day to day running of the thing. The one place he has to go, is go home to God as I'm sure you know well enough that the Big Chief always dies in harness. Emerald - don't they hand over the reins to younger workers when they get into say their 80's. I have no idea how old TG is. Thanks for clarifying that the allegation is not criminal or of an underage sex nature. TG was born December 1931!
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Post by Admin on Feb 12, 2017 15:06:41 GMT -5
He was a character alright! He was sent home from fermanagh because some wrote in graffiti on the meeting hall "HERBIE LEAVE MY WIFE ALONE" he has had previous experience in these areas!! So -someone wrote that so of course he's guilty.The assuming,presuming and judging on this board is pretty amazing!! It has been made clear by emerald that there is no accusation of a criminal nature (read posts above). Not even by the graffitist, who went to the trouble and risk to air his grievance on the wall (presumably) of the meeting hall. You may be suggesting guilt of a moral nature, but that would only be an assumption. Fairly effective way of sending a message to the Workers, incidentally!
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Post by Admin on Feb 12, 2017 15:29:09 GMT -5
i think Paul was speaking to the public in general and not to the workers in that verse... Thanks for the fact check. As NathanB has pointed out, many (perhaps most) of who Jesus chose for his ministry were married. And of course there were no "Workers" in Paul's day, rather Apostles and Disciples. And members of the public it seemed who were used in ministry as they were gifted and lead by the Holy Spirit. The terminology of "Workers" coming with Wm Irvine out of the Faith Mission in... where else? The amazing Emerald Isle, which in this internet age has come up with an even more effective way of messaging today's Workers!!! admin
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Post by Admin on Feb 12, 2017 16:34:21 GMT -5
~~ The Faith Mission did NOT invent the word "worker" or Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry, the sisters workers, married workers (John Govan was a married man/worker himself as a Faith Mission preacher. I don't know if his wife was a Faith Mission worker herself or NOT. I have read church history, there has been some married apostles through down the centuries, but mostly were unmarried because of the safety, and not practical lifestyle to raise children in before John Govan, founded the Faith Mission in 1886 and William Irvine, the early 2x2 workers copied apostolic 2x2 ministry from the FM. Yes I know there are plenty of 'alternative facts' around Workers being apostles, etc. etc. In your reading of church history Nate, there must have been a big gap between a few hundred years AD and the late 1890s in Ireland. You can point me to the written book of church history that you use as your source for this period, if you like. Apostles (cap. A) are usually defined as those called to ministry by Jesus who were direct witnesses of him. Faith-mission 'Workers' were not Apostles. Today's 'apostles' (small a) are generally referred to as missionaries, with no greater authority in the church than to evangelize. Of course, different forms or systems ascribe greater eminence to some in the hierarchy, such as RC priests. But that is not the form of NT church established by our risen Lord, in Acts.
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Post by Admin on Feb 12, 2017 16:45:52 GMT -5
perhaps when that courageous band of men and women in courage and faith stepped out of the churches of the time to find the life and then take it to others they discarded anything of clerical garb and clerical terms such as "Reverend" and felt it appropriate to use the term 'worker' which the Apostle Paul himself had used for those in the ministry. Long live the Irish I respect and love them! The land of my forefathers! and.... Also the land where those first men and women 100+ years ago courageously stepped out in faith and then went to the United States, Canada, South Africa, Australasia , South America, Europe and more. They carried a message of life that met the need of spiritually hungry people. They also sometimes went hungry, they slept in barns, they ate raw turnips from fields. That was nothing compared with the privilege they had that their unworthy ordinary lives could be used to carry a message of hope and eternal life. They were and still are ordinary men and women, sinners as all men and women are. Jesus and his apostles and through the ages have been misjudged and spoken against. That it would happen again in the 21st century in the forum that internet technology provides is entirely unsurprising. With the above I readily concur. Do what you can, to ensure the F&W system that has developed doesn't simply become another form of religion from which revival is sorely needed yet again. And yet, that seems the natural human tendency, even in scripture through the ages. Keep it fresh and alive, as it undoubtedly was in 1897 in Ireland!
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Post by Admin on Feb 12, 2017 17:46:35 GMT -5
Thanks Nate! admin
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 6:52:10 GMT -5
Well the worker concerned did not suddenly retire because someone did not like the way he made cups of tea for the elderly did he? Cmon, give us a break. The workers worldwide are riddled with incompetent nincompoops. A break in what sense? What do you want the worker to have done? There is a very serious problem on this forum, people jump to conclusions and pronounce judgments on others based on "hear say" and possibly malice, without even knowing the real facts about any particular case. That is sickening and dangerous. Judge not that you be not judged.......
It is not in our place to pass judgment on anyone, but if we feel that we need to offer comments, we should base them on irrefutable facts, not biased and prejudiced guess work.
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Fermanagh
Feb 13, 2017 8:00:46 GMT -5
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Post by iamsaved on Feb 13, 2017 8:00:46 GMT -5
The facts are that HJ is [deleted], iv seen him in action first hand without going into any details, he needs to get himself a wife and stop hanging out with TG!
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Post by LITTLEPADDY on Feb 13, 2017 16:35:57 GMT -5
A break in what sense? What do you want the worker to have done? There is a very serious problem on this forum, people jump to conclusions and pronounce judgments on others based on "hear say" and possibly malice, without even knowing the real facts about any particular case. That is sickening and dangerous. Judge that you be not judged.......
It is not in our place to pass judgment on anyone, but if we feel that we need to offer comments, we should base them on irrefutable facts, not biased and prejudiced guess work.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. But when a problem arises in the 2x2's (not only them) the irrefutable facts are a big hush hush and therefore the rumor mill starts grinding. When something of this magnitude happens it should be declared with out bias towards the perpetrator or victim as neither side has been proven guilty. I wonder why the accuser wasn't prepared to sign his name if he was certain of what had happened They tried sweeping NT under the carpet but the Kees put their name to the accusation - and were proved right years ago. The rumor mill grinds when irrefutable facts are withheld. Never judge until you've heard both sides
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 14, 2017 0:46:07 GMT -5
There is a very serious problem on this forum, people jump to conclusions and pronounce judgments on others based on "hear say" and possibly malice, without even knowing the real facts about any particular case. That is sickening and dangerous. Judge that you be not judged.......
It is not in our place to pass judgment on anyone, but if we feel that we need to offer comments, we should base them on irrefutable facts, not biased and prejudiced guess work.
I agree. Many workers have led the charge over the years by judging all and sundry and "standing down" people over all kinds of things. That is sickening and dangerous. I could not agree more Ross. When I was professing, I was spoken to several times by workers who had heard such and such about me. All of it was untrue but I was still to be punished. How delightful it is now to serve them up with their own sh-. They sure don't like being given what they give.
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