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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 15:34:04 GMT -5
I got whacked with a yard stick by a brother worker. It was a situation where he was fooling around with a bunch of us kids and all of a sudden he became serious and we didn't realize it. I was the only one that got whacked and it really stung! Another time I almost got paddled by another older brother worker. I was playing around rather loudly outside and he evidently was trying to take a nap or rest or something and I evidently had disturbed him. He came out hopping mad and bawled me out. I do know of someone else that actually did get a paddling from a worker. A lot of the older brother workers do not like kids very much unless they are very adult-like, and completely quiet and listen to their every word. In my day, children had to be "seen but not heard". A meal with the workers at our house was like a gospel meeting where you got to quietly eat. The workers encouraged our family to spank. I'm sure they still feel they were very right to give that advice because whenever they visited, they saw a perfect family with perfect kids. When the workers were not visiting, we lived in pure chaos, with plenty of abuse. We were expected to spank our children in the meeting we once attended in this area. If someone felt that we were not tending to our children as we should (they were being a little wiggly or a bit noisy), one of them elder women would come and snatch up our child and take them out of the room. This always made me very uncomfortable. They didn't even ask. I never thought it was reasonable to force a child to sit still and quiet through an hour or more of meeting (or.. woah, convention). I felt that a few squeeks and wiggles were just fine. Of course, if they were screaming or being too nutty, I'd take them out and hold them or rock them for a bit before returning to meeting. I really love that our church is kid friendly. Their Sunday School classes for children are uplifting and right at their levels. They understand that children are going to be wiggly, sometimes wild and unruly, and yes... noisy.. because they are kids. a dedicated "spanking room." Everywhere had a space the parents would use for that purpose, although I haven't seen one used only for that. The worst was in people's homes, when the next room over wasn't far enough, and you could hear the whole thing. The parents made far more distraction from the meetings than whatever the children had done. Often I would here and notice nothing, then all of a sudden, a parent yanks the child up and rushes out, and then the ensuing chaos. You're quite right. Where I lived, we hardly ever saw anything like this, but I know other places nearby where kids were actually treated this way, at meetings and at conventions. Once a family came from New England to our convention and the parents each carried a strip of leather to keep their 2 kids (approx. 3 - 6 yrs. old) in line. I heard the adults saying that the workers had told them to put their straps away. A roommate I had when I went to college told me that when he and his brothers were small his father would take them to convention and carry a switch with him so he could whip them without taking them out of meeting. I'd heard of it, but realized it was true when one of the kids himself told me about it. It's not as common today, but when I was young there were a LOT of people who believed that any kids that weren't spanked enough were spoiled brats. One idiot father told me he'd spank his kids every day even if they didn't do anything wrong, because kids always misbehave when no one is watching them. In regards to spanking;....I was whipped with the belt, paddle, wooden spoon, or whatever was handy. Never the hand...I didn't even consider that punishment. The hand didn't even hurt. I know at least one of the conventions my family regularly attended had a room where parents could take their misbehaving children but still hear the service through a speaker system. Not necessarily a spanking room, but I don't think many of the people at convention would object to spanking -- I was spanked occasionally as a young child. Some of my friends' parents used whips or belts, whereas mine usually used just their hands, so I felt somewhat lucky.. I just want to point out how pervasive physical abuse of children is in 2x2ism, that 2x2 ministers would be joking about things like this. Things which are illegal, let alone horrribly immoral. I know for a fact, and it has been confirmed on this thread, that 2x2 ministers encouraged 2x2 members to physically abuse their children. Workers actively encouraged parents (and still do) to beat their children. This is child abuse and it is illegal. Spanking is illegal in 47 countries - countries where Workers are actively encouraging it. You probably are not aware of the impact that the beatings impacted you as an adult. All of those events are trauma events. It's very similar if today a man 5 times your size grabbed you and beat you with a belt the size of your head. The child's brain goes into 'fight or flight', releasing adrenaline and shutting down the frontal lobes of the brain while the lymbic system of the brain takes over. I highly encourage you to read ' The Body Keeps the Score'. Using violence to discipline children was not 'just the way back then'. Only about 30% of parents were doing this sort of thing. I know a lot of people who were never hit as children. You just have to get out of your peer group and ask. Hitting children is not a cultural thing, it's learned behavior from generation to generation. Hitting children can be transmitted intergenerationally by instruction (that's all we knew) but mostly it's transmitted intergenerationally by stunted emotional growth. Hitting a child causes the child to be angry (no surprise), but the child is not allowed by the parent to express that anger - so the child learns to repress anger. Later as an adult this repressed anger comes out in a variety of ways - one of which is the quick response when parenting to hit their own child when the child does something they don't like. Emotionally mature people are able to express anger without hitting, and even without yelling. Other ways in which this repressed anger manifests itself is in depression, quick temper, impatience, etc. Studies have shown that spanking doesn't work: It can not only impair a child's IQ and their overall ability to learn, but it can also lead to low self esteem, aggressive behaviors and substance abuse and addiction problems in later years. According to a June 2016 study that appeared in the Journal of Family Psychology, more than five decades of research revealed that children who were spanked were more likely to encounter mental health and cognitive difficulties and obstacles, become anti-social and introverted, and were more likely to defy their parents. Spanking is illegal in 47 countries for a reason. The issue of spanking isn't really debated any longer among child development experts - it's widely held to be a bad thing (hence why it is illegal). In particular, it has a high correlation with violent crime later in life. professing.proboards.com/thread/4085/spanking?page=1professing.proboards.com/thread/11729/removed-room-whipped-hardprofessing.proboards.com/thread/1585/spare-rod?page=1professing.proboards.com/thread/11493/spanking-question?page=1professing.proboards.com/thread/10964/worker-paddled-yaprofessing.proboards.com/thread/683/professing-parents-whip?page=1professing.proboards.com/thread/9843/2x2s-corporal-punishment?page=1professing.proboards.com/thread/6424/child-abuse-australia?page=1professing.proboards.com/thread/6364/discipline-child-beating?page=1professing.proboards.com/thread/2822/why-professing-parents-whip-kidsprofessing.proboards.com/thread/21115/child-physical-abuse
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Post by openingact34 on Jan 14, 2017 16:04:21 GMT -5
Eldon Tenniswood (the Overseer of Overseers for the Western US and beyond) publicly lauded a mother who beat her four-month-old baby when he cried in meetings. www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_later/tenniswooda.php#FAMILYMTGWhen you combine cruel top-level leadership and the violent, hate-filled words of the Bible, rampant child abuse should be no surprise.
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Post by blandie on Jan 14, 2017 16:04:29 GMT -5
I never heard a worker insist on physical beatings but they were sure common in the f&w culture. Its all many knew and others have said that they heard such things said so I've no reason to doubt that it was there. Aside from being illegal in some areas the 'spare the rod and spoil the child' saying to justify beatings comes from a take-off of verses that aren't so cut and dried to do with physical beatings in the original hebrew. The word king james used for 'beat' can mean anything from 'correct' to 'discipline' to 'murder' to 'clap' and the word used for 'rod' is a simple stick - the very type that I've seen shepherds use to guide - not beat - their sheep along the path. I always cringed when seeing infants slapped - sometimes repeatedly - and also wondered what lessons being imparted by the parents and it said more about the parents and their quick anger and lack of patience and inability to transmit ways to communicate and resolve than it did about the little one.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 16:17:07 GMT -5
having experienced both beatings and spankings i can tell you there is a difference...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 16:19:24 GMT -5
In those old days, the parents spanked their kids and hardly anyone ever went to jail unless they beat them to death. These days the laws have changed, so be very careful how you discipline your kids in public, they can put people in Jail for spanking children in public. This is typical 2x2 talk. Says to not 'spank in public', but of course doesn't say anything about spanking in private. IT'S ILLEGAL NO MATTER WHERE - PRIVATE OR PUBLIC. NathanB would probably say the same thing about child sexual assault. Keep this is mind. Your children can sue you for spanking them. There are no statutes of limitation on this. 40 years later or more even, they can sue for this.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 16:20:45 GMT -5
having experienced both beatings and spankings i can tell you there is a difference... There is no difference in the eye of The Law. And for each child and each situation it impacts them differently. As the parent, you should never hit a child, never ever. No spanking, period. It's illegal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 16:24:21 GMT -5
I never heard a worker insist on physical beatings but they were sure common in the f&w culture. Its all many knew and others have said that they heard such things said so I've no reason to doubt that it was there. Aside from being illegal in some areas the 'spare the rod and spoil the child' saying to justify beatings comes from a take-off of verses that aren't so cut and dried to do with physical beatings in the original hebrew. The word king james used for 'beat' can mean anything from 'correct' to 'discipline' to 'murder' to 'clap' and the word used for 'rod' is a simple stick - the very type that I've seen shepherds use to guide - not beat - their sheep along the path. I always cringed when seeing infants slapped - sometimes repeatedly - and also wondered what lessons being imparted by the parents and it said more about the parents and their quick anger and lack of patience and inability to transmit ways to communicate and resolve than it did about the little one. Truth be told, I and my generation got more beatings and punishment at school by teachers than we ever had from our parents. Abuse at school was unfair cruel and rampant. This is in no way offered as an excuse for wanton parental abuse of children. However I believe that a rod of correction was/is necessary even in today's world. I do not advocate brutality, however. My mother used to give us fair warning with these words: "Hard ears you wont hear, on bum bum you will feel."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 16:26:17 GMT -5
This is typical 2x2 talk. Says to not 'spank in public', but of course doesn't say anything about spanking in private. IT'S ILLEGAL NO MATTER WHERE - PRIVATE OR PUBLIC. Keep this is mind. Your children can sue you for spanking them. There are no statutes of limitation on this. 40 years later or more even, they can sue for this. I know, I know... In private too, because I know of kids reporting their parents who spanked them to their teachers at school. Again with the typical 2x2 thinking! It's not about getting caught!! It's about not doing something that is horrible and illegal. Always 2x2s think like this - if the 'Workers' don't catch me doing XYZ then it's ok.' What a messed up way to think, and it seeps into every other part of their thinking processes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 16:29:52 GMT -5
I never heard a worker insist on physical beatings but they were sure common in the f&w culture. Its all many knew and others have said that they heard such things said so I've no reason to doubt that it was there. Aside from being illegal in some areas the 'spare the rod and spoil the child' saying to justify beatings comes from a take-off of verses that aren't so cut and dried to do with physical beatings in the original hebrew. The word king james used for 'beat' can mean anything from 'correct' to 'discipline' to 'murder' to 'clap' and the word used for 'rod' is a simple stick - the very type that I've seen shepherds use to guide - not beat - their sheep along the path. I always cringed when seeing infants slapped - sometimes repeatedly - and also wondered what lessons being imparted by the parents and it said more about the parents and their quick anger and lack of patience and inability to transmit ways to communicate and resolve than it did about the little one. Truth be told, I and my generation got more beatings and punishment at school by teachers than we ever had from our parents. Abuse at school was unfair cruel and rampant. This is in no way offered as an excuse for wanton parental abuse of children. However I believe that a rod of correction was/is necessary even in today's world. I do not advocate brutality, however. You can believe all you want. But the evidence and the law says otherwise. I encourage you to do some reading on the issue. You might discover that there is an extremely high correlation between hitting children and later violent criminal behavior. African-American kids suffer from the highest rates of corporeal punishment in the USA. There are African-American parents arrested almost everyday for this in the USA. And does it surprise you that African-American males have the highest rate of violent crime by a long shot? 2% of the population committing 50% of the murders.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 16:35:11 GMT -5
Truth be told, I and my generation got more beatings and punishment at school by teachers than we ever had from our parents. Abuse at school was unfair cruel and rampant. This is in no way offered as an excuse for wanton parental abuse of children. However I believe that a rod of correction was/is necessary even in today's world. I do not advocate brutality, however. When I was in Vietnam at middle school, Wow! those teachers Whipped us with thin bamboo sticks and the welts, it hurts so bad for days.Nathan, I say this with all gentleness, you should see a therapist - what you have just posted was a traumatic experience in your life and will have impacted you whether you think so or not.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 16:39:29 GMT -5
Truth be told, I and my generation got more beatings and punishment at school by teachers than we ever had from our parents. Abuse at school was unfair cruel and rampant. This is in no way offered as an excuse for wanton parental abuse of children. However I believe that a rod of correction was/is necessary even in today's world. I do not advocate brutality, however. You can believe all you want. But the evidence and the law says otherwise. I encourage you to do some reading on the issue. You might discover that there is an extremely high correlation between hitting children and later violent criminal behavior. African-American kids suffer from the highest rates of corporeal punishment in the USA. There are African-American parents arrested almost everyday for this in the USA. And does it surprise you that African-American males have the highest rate of violent crime by a long shot? 2% of the population committing 50% of the murders. And yet in some jurisdictions offenders are sentenced in courts of Law to a number of strokes with a rod as a punishment for crimes committed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 16:50:06 GMT -5
I know, I know... In private too, because I know of kids reporting their parents who spanked them to their teachers at school. Again with the typical 2x2 thinking! It's not about getting caught!! It's about not doing something that is horrible and illegal. Always 2x2s think like this - if the 'Workers' don't catch me doing XYZ then it's ok.' What a messed up way to think, and it seeps into every other part of their thinking processes. Obviously you are waging a sort of vendetta against the 2x2s, it seems like they can do nothing right as far as you are concerned. So yours might be a very biased and prejudiced view point.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 17:00:52 GMT -5
You can believe all you want. But the evidence and the law says otherwise. I encourage you to do some reading on the issue. You might discover that there is an extremely high correlation between hitting children and later violent criminal behavior. African-American kids suffer from the highest rates of corporeal punishment in the USA. There are African-American parents arrested almost everyday for this in the USA. And does it surprise you that African-American males have the highest rate of violent crime by a long shot? 2% of the population committing 50% of the murders. And yet in some jurisdictions offenders are sentenced in courts of Law to a number of strokes with a rod as a punishment for crimes committed. Not in the US and certainly not with children. If you think what KSA does is good, then by all means move there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 17:02:47 GMT -5
Nathan, I say this with all gentleness, you should see a therapist - what you have just posted was a traumatic experience in your life and will have impacted you whether you think so or not. Simpleton, do you know what is like to born and raised in a WAR torn country in Vietnam? Do you think a few sticks will give me a traumatic experience for life? I saw worse things that imprinted in my mind, than having a few welts on my body. These experiences I have made me a lot stronger mentally and I am a survivor. Nathan, I am sorry that you had all this trauma in your life. It's terrible. It is simply not possible to just 'be over it' and 'stronger'. It causes damage to your brain. Please see a therapist, you will be surprised at what you learn. Even just start reading some of the books I recommended about trauma. You might have physically survived it, but mentally it still effects you.
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Post by blandie on Jan 14, 2017 17:08:36 GMT -5
Truth be told, I and my generation got more beatings and punishment at school by teachers than we ever had from our parents. Abuse at school was unfair cruel and rampant. This is in no way offered as an excuse for wanton parental abuse of children. However I believe that a rod of correction was/is necessary even in today's world. I do not advocate brutality, however. My mother used to give us fair warning with these words: "Hard ears you wont hear, on bum bum you will feel." Yes they whacked kids at school in my day too - tho not nearly as much as I recall among the friends around here. Good point tho - part of it was in the culture just about everywhere. I was glad when schools started giving up the paddlings over 50 years ago. I think maybe like dress and hair fashions it might take the f&w's a long time to catch up cause it still goes on around here. No child should be struck in anger and anger should never be confused with love - and anger is what I observed with infants being whipped to keep them silent - self-defeating and unreasonable and more like frustrations being taken out on kids than teaching them anything other than its ok to hit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 17:27:26 GMT -5
Nathan, I am sorry that you had all this trauma in your life. It's terrible. It is simply not possible to just 'be over it' and 'stronger'. It causes damage to your brain. Please see a therapist, you will be surprised at what you learn. Even just start reading some of the books I recommended about trauma. You might have physically survived it, but mentally it still effects you. I am doing fine, for 57 years. I have been doing a lot of reading differnt books through the years, the mind is very powerful, and it can heal itself if you allow it to. When life gives you a lemon turn it into lemonade. Turn the negative into positive.I am sure you have done well, but you can do so much better with therapy. The brain can heal itself, but it requires therapy. New pathways need to be formed in the brain. Please read some of the books I recommended. You will be amazed at how helpful it will be.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2017 18:58:17 GMT -5
Eldon Tenniswood (the Overseer of Overseers for the Western US and beyond) publicly lauded a mother who beat her four-month-old baby when he cried in meetings. www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_later/tenniswooda.php#FAMILYMTGWhen you combine cruel top-level leadership and the violent, hate-filled words of the Bible, rampant child abuse should be no surprise. They are more interested in conformity than they are in teaching children to discern between right and wrong. Or, in other words, they are more interested in works than they are in responsible understanding.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2017 18:59:46 GMT -5
having experienced both beatings and spankings i can tell you there is a difference... What is the difference?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2017 19:06:20 GMT -5
You can believe all you want. But the evidence and the law says otherwise. I encourage you to do some reading on the issue. You might discover that there is an extremely high correlation between hitting children and later violent criminal behavior. African-American kids suffer from the highest rates of corporeal punishment in the USA. There are African-American parents arrested almost everyday for this in the USA. And does it surprise you that African-American males have the highest rate of violent crime by a long shot? 2% of the population committing 50% of the murders. And yet in some jurisdictions offenders are sentenced in courts of Law to a number of strokes with a rod as a punishment for crimes committed. And some people think they're civilized. Hogwash -- it's nothing more than barbarity.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2017 19:15:20 GMT -5
Again with the typical 2x2 thinking! It's not about getting caught!! It's about not doing something that is horrible and illegal. Always 2x2s think like this - if the 'Workers' don't catch me doing XYZ then it's ok.' What a messed up way to think, and it seeps into every other part of their thinking processes. Obviously you are waging a sort of vendetta against the 2x2s, it seems like they can do nothing right as far as you are concerned. So yours might be a very biased and prejudiced view point. But just because SHE said it doesn't make any of it wrong. Telling the truth is NOT being biased. I've noticed that when some professing person makes similar statements, it's not referred to as waging a vendetta -- only when someone outside the group says such things. No one seems to have denied anything of what she's said -- and I suspect you know it's all true anyway.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2017 19:21:18 GMT -5
Who cares what our parents did in their day? That doesn't make it civilized.
If you check carefully, in my father's day some civilized Western (Christian) nations were cutting people's heads off for non-capital offenses.
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Post by joanna on Jan 14, 2017 19:39:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 19:44:25 GMT -5
I said it was Illegal in 47 countries. I did not say which ones. You can look it up for yourself. Even in countries where it is not explicitly illegal, many of those countries have physical abuse prohibitions which can be used to charge parents who spank.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 19:54:37 GMT -5
having experienced both beatings and spankings i can tell you there is a difference... What is the difference? one leads to broken bones bruises and maybe even cuts and bleeding the other just hurts your pride...
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2017 20:18:35 GMT -5
one leads to broken bones bruises and maybe even cuts and bleeding the other just hurts your pride... I think you mean destroy their self esteem. No child portrays a prideful attitude if they've not been taught to display one. Can you use the same method to destroy an adult's pride?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2017 20:20:03 GMT -5
The US isn't all that civilized, by comparison.
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Post by janj on Jan 14, 2017 20:47:23 GMT -5
Simpleton, do you know what is like to born and raised in a WAR torn country in Vietnam? Do you think a few sticks will give me a traumatic experience for life? I saw worse things that imprinted in my mind, than having a few welts on my body. These experiences I have made me a lot stronger mentally and I am a survivor. Nathan, I am sorry that you had all this trauma in your life. It's terrible. It is simply not possible to just 'be over it' and 'stronger'. It causes damage to your brain. Please see a therapist, you will be surprised at what you learn. Even just start reading some of the books I recommended about trauma. You might have physically survived it, but mentally it still effects you. Nathan, surely you would want to heed simpleton's advise. You should in fact ask her for the name of her therapist who has obviously done a great job. She appears such a balanced, well adjusted, positive person - someone that we would all want to be around. Im sure you would want to be just like that Nathan😉
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 22:08:19 GMT -5
one leads to broken bones bruises and maybe even cuts and bleeding the other just hurts your pride... I think you mean destroy their self esteem. No child portrays a prideful attitude if they've not been taught to display one. Can you use the same method to destroy an adult's pride? ummm i think if you try to spank an adult you'll find yourself in hot water... since children look to their parents to to see if their proud of them i would disgaree i don't remember what age that starts at but its way before the age of 13....
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