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Post by breakfree on Dec 20, 2016 19:31:29 GMT -5
After re-reading your post,....4dtruth....
I don't think you are really serious! ...but then again...
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Post by stevnz on Dec 20, 2016 19:34:20 GMT -5
1st Masterton convention starts tomorrow. Those who planned to attend 1st or 2nd Masterton need to consider:
Do they wish to attend and listen to a person who has been transferred between states with allegations of CSA that are subject to investigation by the authorities?
Should they attend or not?
Should they walk out if he speaks?
Should they talk to the workers about these issues?
What is the real attitude of the overseers towards CSA?
Does an apparent shortage of workers justify retaining workers who are involved in CSA?
What would victims think about the 'travel privilege' accorded the visiting worker?
What would people who have been told to not speak in the meetings (perhaps because of D&R) think about such a worker having continued speaking privileges?
Should they limit their concern for children to that of 4dtruth: "Will they be well disciplined to sit and listen quietly and attentively? Will they be dressed modestly, appropriately and in a Godly manner? It would certainly be distressing and unacceptable to see young ladies engaging in behaviour like the wickedness of wearing of pants or the ornaments of this world."
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Post by fixit on Dec 20, 2016 22:47:20 GMT -5
"Grieving" didn't mention whether he or she has now found the true church which guides their life. Re my thread "Missing out" There are plenty in scripture who were so taken up with someone on their way to "missing out" that they missed out themselves. God's children are led by the spirit of God. Who are you led by Bert? Hopefully not a church? |
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Post by friendly67 on Dec 21, 2016 1:06:07 GMT -5
God's children are led by the spirit of God. Who are you led by Bert? Hopefully not a church?There is a huge difference in belonging to, or affiliating with, a church and being led by it. I am led by the Spirit of God, and appreciate any encouragement I get from your church, Nathan. |
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Post by fixit on Dec 21, 2016 1:50:23 GMT -5
God's children are led by the spirit of God. Who are you led by Bert? Hopefully not a church?Probably for the same reason you belong. |
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Post by menatwork on Dec 21, 2016 3:57:59 GMT -5
Looks like you have brought our resident worker out of hibernation Ross😄
I wonder if he is speaking at Masterton??
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 21, 2016 4:31:52 GMT -5
OH, geeze! Not him again! 
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Post by menatwork on Dec 21, 2016 5:05:37 GMT -5
Looks like you have brought our resident worker out of hibernation Ross😄 I wonder if he is speaking at Masterton?? Perhaps Ross has gone into hibernation and not speaking? When you get called out over false and incorrect statements you make it's probably a better place to be than digging yourself further into your falsehood pit? Ha ha! You and Ross certainly bring out the "best" in each other.......very entertaining😄 Are you at Masterton......if so I hope it all goes well and that you have an inspiring message for the masses. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 6:22:12 GMT -5
I have to say all this makes me feel very disappointed and sad.
A number of years ago I felt content with the way things seemed to be heading in NZ regarding csa but the way this matter at Masterton has panned out leaves me feeling pretty disillusioned. The invitation to attend NZ conventions is so obviously wrong and the negative impact it has on people (and past csa victims) who know, is very inconsiderate.
One problem I also have is that it leaves me feeling ashamed. I hate it when secular organisations and other churches hold higher standards of righteousness than us in some area (in this case csa). I fear being questioned about it by outsiders or unprofessing relatives if this was known to them, as I would not be able to give a satisfactory answer, and I’m sure my unease would be visible.
I am not a protesting type of person so I personally don’t advocate mass boycotts – anyway, most people who had intended to go to Masterton will probably proceed to still go especially if they haven’t been to a previous convention.
Some things people could consider depending on personality type is :-
Choose to not attend the meetings where the worker speaks (they could quietly spend it instead in the sleeping quarters reading and praying while the meeting takes place)
Leave the meeting when the person starts to speak (this is making a visible point, a bit more like a protest)
Leave printed leaflets in each little sleeping tent and shed in the sleeping quarters urging people to keep their children safe with a brief explanation of why this is particularly needed this year
A number of years ago I was brimming with enthusiasm about our fellowship but it has now waned alarmingly. It’s not mistakes that cause that, but it’s the lack of desire to do what’s right, I think. This leaves me feeling sad.
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Post by xyz on Dec 21, 2016 6:44:09 GMT -5
Many years ago I indeed was a psycophant when in that work. Never knew even one of those in the work then to behave as the one posting to this thread. Not one.
However I did know of a man adamant in his belief that his wife's preachers would lie, and then others would swear to it. I really loved that old man and later had to confess as a worker, I was indeed like that. So, maybe this "worker" among us will learn what is true someday also. Hope for me? Then hope for everyone, surely!
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 21, 2016 8:14:59 GMT -5
I have to say all this makes me feel very disappointed and sad. A number of years ago I felt content with the way things seemed to be heading in NZ regarding csa but the way this matter at Masterton has panned out leaves me feeling pretty disillusioned. The invitation to attend NZ conventions is so obviously wrong and the negative impact it has on people (and past csa victims) who know, is very inconsiderate. One problem I also have is that it leaves me feeling ashamed. I hate it when secular organisations and other churches hold higher standards of righteousness than us in some area (in this case csa). I fear being questioned about it by outsiders or unprofessing relatives if this was known to them, as I would not be able to give a satisfactory answer, and I’m sure my unease would be visible. I am not a protesting type of person so I personally don’t advocate mass boycotts – anyway, most people who had intended to go to Masterton will probably proceed to still go especially if they haven’t been to a previous convention. Some things people could consider depending on personality type is :-
Choose to not attend the meetings where the worker speaks (they could quietly spend it instead in the sleeping quarters reading and praying while the meeting takes place)
Leave the meeting when the person starts to speak (this is making a visible point, a bit more like a protest)
Leave printed leaflets in each little sleeping tent and shed in the sleeping quarters urging people to keep their children safe with a brief explanation of why this is particularly needed this year A number of years ago I was brimming with enthusiasm about our fellowship but it has now waned alarmingly. It’s not mistakes that cause that, but it’s the lack of desire to do what’s right, I think. This leaves me feeling sad.
Withdraw your contribution to the work and convention...It's your offering to the Lord, and if you don't agree with the way its being used--don't provide for the status quo to continue. Money talks.
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Post by Gene on Dec 21, 2016 8:15:55 GMT -5
Ha ha! You and Ross certainly bring out the "best" in each other.......very entertaining😄 Are you at Masterton......if so I hope it all goes well and that you have an inspiring message for the masses. Ha thanks! I now ignore Ross' sad outpourings. But when I noticed the false & incorrect statement he made about me personally I thought I better set it right publicly . There is lots of other 'nonsense' he posts but I no longer bother challenging that. Readers with any discernment will soon see through it; see that the guy left us over a decade ago but still simmers away as if it was last week.😢 You are an Aussie? (won't hold that against you, 😉) professing? (one way or the other is fine with me) Hey happy Christmas & New Year, best wishes for 2017! Come over the trough sometime & let's meet up! I'm confused (or just behind - haven't read every post yet; I will, but need to ask this question while it's on my mind, because my short-term memory is... what was I saying? Oh, yes:) Which statement was the false and incorrect statement?
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Post by breakfree on Dec 21, 2016 10:05:50 GMT -5
Speak the truth plainly and clearly....
God needs workers brave and true....may He then depend on you....
confront issues not people....
Truth equals Light equals clarity.....a beacon in the darkness
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Post by withlove on Dec 21, 2016 12:42:30 GMT -5
I understand that he visits TMB regularly - he must enjoy the banter which is great  Ha - I imagine that someone will tune in to hear what he speaks about. It won't be me. Maybe he will tackle the issue that is at the heart of this thread? The last guy brave enough to do that was Graham Thompson. You are a 'tiger for punishment' if nothing else!  You have the audacity to post on this thread again so soon?!! Posting on as though 'nothing has happened?!!  Why not rather prove that you have some common decency and a little integrity by withdrawing the baseless and slanderous statement you posted yesterday? Perhaps you are 'never wrong'? Never need to say "I'm sorry"? So there are two of you...two workers? |
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Post by withlove on Dec 21, 2016 12:51:41 GMT -5
Still having issues with pages loading here, and can't respond to replies to my posts.
I'm aware and appreciate that plenty in the church do not think/feel the way that 4d does! There are some special aspects of the church and I can understand staying in despite the discouraging bits. I really admire those still in who think critically and stick to their values.
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Post by withlove on Dec 21, 2016 12:54:46 GMT -5
'withlove'; an excellent point you have made! Those who grizzle and moan on this forum about workers; that malign and 'bad speak' them often have the very same faults and characteristics that complain of 'workers' having!!!!! I didn't mean to make a point--just ask if you and 4d were two different posters and workers. Good point, though. I often ask myself if I am holding myself to the same standard as I expect of others. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 13:29:47 GMT -5
Could someone please post the speakers list for the Masterton convention just starting.
For those of us who have attended Masterton in years gone by, it would be nice to picture it as fully as possible in our minds.
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Post by 4dtruth on Dec 21, 2016 13:56:26 GMT -5
You are a 'tiger for punishment' if nothing else! You have the audacity to post on this thread again so soon?!! Posting on as though 'nothing has happened?!! Why not rather prove that you have some common decency and a little integrity by withdrawing the baseless and slanderous statement you posted yesterday? Perhaps you are 'never wrong'? Never need to say "I'm sorry"? So there are two of you...two workers? Oh, there are a whole lot more than two! By my count, either 5 or 6 different workers have been tarred with the same brush by now! This strategy that the venomous Ross Bowden and his sidekick jondough have been employing for some time might best be described as "minimization". Every time someone new shares an insight that their wicked hearts are pricked by, they scramble to dismiss it as a new identity for their chosen scapegoat: "that senior brother worker from NZ". They have been digging this hole for themselves for years now!This strategy that the venomous Ross Bowden and his sidekicks (enuf, sharingtheriches, ram, fred, Roselyn T, elizabethcoleman, Dennis J, dmmichgood, jondough, and others) have been employing for some time might best be described as "minimization". Every time someone new shares an insight that their wicked hearts are pricked by, there is a mad scramble to dismiss it as a new identity for their chosen scapegoat: "that senior brother worker from NZ". As the chief reprobate on TMB, Ross has been digging this hole for himself for years now! If our messages are in harmony, it is certainly not of our own flesh or any earthly coordination, but because of the work God is doing in our hearts! |
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Post by jondough on Dec 21, 2016 15:24:30 GMT -5
So there are two of you...two workers? Oh, there are a whole lot more than two! By my count, either 5 or 6 different workers have been tarred with the same brush by now! This strategy that the venomous Ross Bowden and his sidekick jondough have been employing for some time might best be described as "minimization". Every time someone new shares an insight that their wicked hearts are pricked by, they scramble to dismiss it as a new identity for their chosen scapegoat: "that senior brother worker from NZ". They have been digging this hole for themselves for years now! If our messages are in harmony, it is certainly not of our own flesh or any earthly coordination, but because of the work God is doing in our hearts! For years? One time when you came back and rudely suggested that I delete my account over something I posted. I offered to do just that if you would delete all your accounts as well, and I named the other ones - thinking that you were the same poster. Conundrum PMed me and corrected me on that mistake, and I never suggested it since. That is THE ONLY time I have ever suggested it. You are losing credibility just posting what you posted above - saying that I have been saying this for years. It was one time quite a while ago. Here's my offer: If you can find one other post besides the one I mentioned above to back your statement that I have been saying this for years, I will first apologize, then delete my account and never return. This will help your credibility if you are able to back up what you post. It would be also interesting to know why you just called me Ross Bowden's "sidekick". Can you please explain that as well? When you call someone a name like this, I would think that you would at least owe that person an explanation of why you chose to do this. Thank You JD p.s (edit) I don't even know how to respond to your comment about having a "wicked heart" other than, that is a very large leap to accuse someone of this that you have never met. I will have to say that I am very surprised. You do realize that you have a great responsibility in who and what you are representing? If I can give any advise it would be to just re-read your post before pushing the "post" button, and ask yourself "am I doing the afore mentioned in an honorable and respectable manner?" |
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Post by friendly67 on Dec 21, 2016 16:07:02 GMT -5
Oh dear, 4wheel drive and friends. If their are five of you, workers with an attitude that shows judgement without love,
then in the words of your national anthem, GOD DEFEND NEW ZEALAND.
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Post by fred on Dec 21, 2016 16:33:58 GMT -5
Oh dear, 4wheel drive and friends. If their are five of you, workers with an attitude that shows judgement without love, then in the words of your national anthem, GOD DEFEND NEW ZEALAND. My thoughts exactly, but the poster obviously feels secure knowing that there is no way for sure to disprove his claims. Speaking as a student of linguistics I would suggest that his claims are on shaky grounds. So as to his other claim, the Holy Spirit does not incite one to communicate like this. |
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Post by withlove on Dec 21, 2016 17:06:36 GMT -5
Oh dear, 4wheel drive and friends. If their are five of you, workers with an attitude that shows judgement without love, then in the words of your national anthem, GOD DEFEND NEW ZEALAND. My thoughts exactly, but the poster obviously feels secure knowing that there is no way for sure to disprove his claims. Speaking as a student of linguistics I would suggest that his claims are on shaky grounds. So as to his other claim, the Holy Spirit does not incite one to communicate like this. Ooh, quoting might work for me this time! The loading issues have preventing me from liking posts too...so many posts I'd like to like! Agree about the Spirit...5 or 6 people can agree without the Spirit making it happen. Legalism, etc. is taught and passed down and people buy in and think it's right and conform to it and preach it themselves. *Editing to add: however many workers 4d and review are or are not, there are WAY more workers who believe the way they do. 5 or 6 would be a drop in the bucket in comparison. Remember that all men shall know you by your love for one another. Not by 4d's list. Some here make it evident which they have chosen (love or legalism). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 18:37:30 GMT -5
1st Masterton convention starts tomorrow. Those who planned to attend 1st or 2nd Masterton need to consider: Do they wish to attend and listen to a person who has been transferred between states with allegations of CSA that are subject to investigation by the authorities? Should they attend or not? Should they walk out if he speaks? Should they talk to the workers about these issues? What is the real attitude of the overseers towards CSA? Does an apparent shortage of workers justify retaining workers who are involved in CSA? What would victims think about the 'travel privilege' accorded the visiting worker? What would people who have been told to not speak in the meetings (perhaps because of D&R) think about such a worker having continued speaking privileges? Should they limit their concern for children to that of 4dtruth: " Will they be well disciplined to sit and listen quietly and attentively? Will they be dressed modestly, appropriately and in a Godly manner? It would certainly be distressing and unacceptable to see young ladies engaging in behaviour like the wickedness of wearing of pants or the ornaments of this world." People should make up their own minds and be guided by their own consciences and hearts. |
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Post by friendly67 on Dec 21, 2016 19:18:56 GMT -5
Thought 4dtruth and his friends would be busy extricating all the hair ornaments from the female congregation.
He said he hoped there would be no ornaments at Masterton.
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Post by learning on Dec 21, 2016 20:30:10 GMT -5
My thoughts exactly, but the poster obviously feels secure knowing that there is no way for sure to disprove his claims. Speaking as a student of linguistics I would suggest that his claims are on shaky grounds. So as to his other claim, the Holy Spirit does not incite one to communicate like this. 'Judge' Fred moved by 'his' 'Holy Spirit' (and linguistic knowledge) has communicated/pronounced his 'guilty until found innocent' judgement.  When is your next grizzle and crack at workers coming? What about in testimony time at Drouin #2 this coming weekend? Now that'd get em all sitting up and listening to ya! Please reply to JD's post above. Additionally, I would be interested, in the context of your reaction to Ross and his comments that you felt the need to reply to because they were "personal", what is your opinion on the application of the words of Jesus to turn the other cheek? |
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Post by speak on Dec 21, 2016 23:08:31 GMT -5
1st Masterton convention starts tomorrow. Those who planned to attend 1st or 2nd Masterton need to consider: Do they wish to attend and listen to a person who has been transferred between states with allegations of CSA that are subject to investigation by the authorities? Should they attend or not? Should they walk out if he speaks? Should they talk to the workers about these issues? What is the real attitude of the overseers towards CSA? Does an apparent shortage of workers justify retaining workers who are involved in CSA? What would victims think about the 'travel privilege' accorded the visiting worker? What would people who have been told to not speak in the meetings (perhaps because of D&R) think about such a worker having continued speaking privileges? Should they limit their concern for children to that of 4dtruth: " Will they be well disciplined to sit and listen quietly and attentively? Will they be dressed modestly, appropriately and in a Godly manner? It would certainly be distressing and unacceptable to see young ladies engaging in behaviour like the wickedness of wearing of pants or the ornaments of this world." People should make up their own minds and be guided by their own consciences and hearts. I say they should be guided by the Holy Spirit. |
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Post by 4dtruth on Dec 21, 2016 23:13:12 GMT -5
For years? One time when you came back and rudely suggested that I delete my account over something I posted. I offered to do just that if you would delete all your accounts as well, and I named the other ones - thinking that you were the same poster. Conundrum PMed me and corrected me on that mistake, and I never suggested it since. That is THE ONLY time I have ever suggested it. You are losing credibility just posting what you posted above - saying that I have been saying this for years. It was one time quite a while ago. Here's my offer: If you can find one other post besides the one I mentioned above to back your statement that I have been saying this for years, I will first apologize, then delete my account and never return. This will help your credibility if you are able to back up what you post. It would be also interesting to know why you just called me Ross Bowden's "sidekick". Can you please explain that as well? When you call someone a name like this, I would think that you would at least owe that person an explanation of why you chose to do this. Thank You JD p.s (edit) I don't even know how to respond to your comment about having a "wicked heart" other than, that is a very large leap to accuse someone of this that you have never met. I will have to say that I am very surprised. You do realize that you have a great responsibility in who and what you are representing? If I can give any advise it would be to just re-read your post before pushing the "post" button, and ask yourself "am I doing the afore mentioned in an honorable and respectable manner?" You do seem to have a bit of a selective memory. Yes, I recall the post that you referenced, including the accusations and the offer of a mutual TMB account “suicide pact”. If I decide to delete my account. I can tell you, I'll be gone for good. I'll do so if you promise to do the same. I don't see the point in coming back in so many different names. Can you explain why you do that?...And I'm not trying to change the subject. I'm truly asking this question. And I'm truly willing to do as you ask, if you are as well. But you must delete all of yours...IE.Noels, Review003, Propeganda, Conudrum & 4dtruth. Is it a deal? In response to your post, I then warned you about making these assumptions, hoping to induce a little bit of critical thought. Are you confident in your accusation that I am the same person as "Noels, Review003, Propeganda, Conundrum"? Are you confident in your accusation that all four other names are the same person? Can you think of any reasons why your "brother" Ross Bowden might wish to continually promote these claims without any evidence? Do you view his input as trustworthy? Whatever private conversations you may have had with conundrum, your reply on record was simply: But based on a quick search that only showed a single other reference equating review005/noels, I will concede that I haven't seen you specifically use this tactic over an extended period of time. Others including enuf, sharingtheriches, ram, fred, Roselyn T, elizabethcoleman, Dennis J and dmmichgood have certainly done the same thing, perhaps with greater frequency. As such, I apologize for singling you out and will revise the post above accordingly. Certainly I have no outstanding demand or desire for you to delete your account. I confess that I am particularly disappointed in your apparent support for and collaboration with the very evil man behind the smiling picture. “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship of the world is enmity with God?” Out of all the names I mentioned, you are the one who should know better. If I can offer you (and some other posters) some advice in return: Sit down and have a real heart-to-heart with some workers from your area. Bring your Secret Sect and blast them with the “true history” and share which past workers you consider “liars”. Express how angry you are about the standards for women in the kingdom, about “CSA guidelines”, finances, waiting for baptism, the overseer position, Vietnam, something about Alberta from 20 years ago, etc, etc, etc. Keeping all of this bottled up inside is not good for you. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 22, 2016 3:04:34 GMT -5
If I can offer you (and some other posters) some advice in return: Sit down and have a real heart-to-heart with some workers from your area. Bring your Secret Sect and blast them with the “true history” and share which past workers you consider “liars”. Express how angry you are about the standards for women in the kingdom, about “CSA guidelines”, finances, waiting for baptism, the overseer position, Vietnam, something about Alberta from 20 years ago, etc, etc, etc. Keeping all of this bottled up inside is not good for you.
I for one, -do not keep anything "bottled up."
Why should I?
Truth is truth and there is no changing that no matter what a worker may say.
So why would I want to "Sit down and have a real heart-to-heart with some workers?"
I doubt that they would know any more than I do.
Anyway, I am quite sure that I could just about tell you word for word how they would rationalize the whole story. 
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