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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 14:57:52 GMT -5
I want to share a story from Mexico. There was a terrible rainstorm and the power was off for 2 days. On the Sunday morning , we were staying in the meeting home and were told that the wine had turned to vinegar in the refrigerator. The fridge had been off for two days. The folks of the home asked us what to do. We told them that we never partake of the bread without wine. Nor do we partake of the cup without the bread. Two eight year old nephews came. There was another meeting 4 kilometers away. We asked these boys to go there and get some wine. We knew that they could take a short cut across the river and through the woods. When it was time for the meeting to start the boys had not returned. The elder had the cup and the plate in the kitchen, not in the meeting room. When we finished singing and started to pray there were no bread or wine in the room. When we looked up after prayer, there were the bread and wine in the middle of the room. The two boys were seated in their places. I could see they were muddy up to their shoulders. It turned out the river was flooded and the bridge was gone. Those boys had risked their lives to get the wine. They told us after that they had run way up river so they could swim across and get out at the right place. It was a very nice meeting. We had the bread and the wine. After the meeting finished, one very zealous lady asked the boys why they were late and why they did not get cleaned up first. Many times we judge ignorantly. We take the bread and the wine without knowing what our brothers and sisters have been through. We come to the meeting 15 minutes early and see the emblems. Do we look at our brothers and sisters through the blood of Christ? We will never know how many people we have offended but every time they pass the cup we are being offered forgiveness again. We begin every new week sharing bread. We offer a little. We receive so much. The Spirit of Christ is bread. One time a woman asked if she could go to a different meeting. When we asked why, she told us the Spirit of Christ was not in her meeting. We told her that if she brought the Spirit of Christ to the meeting it would be there. -Richard W.
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Post by Grant on Aug 20, 2016 15:55:26 GMT -5
8 year old boys sent to get wine? That would be illegal in some countries.
Who said it has to be wine anyway? Some churches don't use wine due to its alcohol content.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 15:58:06 GMT -5
I have heard this account. And while I agree with the no judging part of it, I don't think children should be asked to cross rivers especially during a flood.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 20, 2016 19:58:00 GMT -5
I have heard this account. And while I agree with the no judging part of it, I don't think children should be asked to cross rivers especially during a flood. But where Wolf is from, that is something for the Book of Legends.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 20:07:13 GMT -5
California.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 20, 2016 21:23:36 GMT -5
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Aug 20, 2016 23:49:13 GMT -5
8 year old boys sent to get wine? That would be illegal in some countries. Who said it has to be wine anyway? Some churches don't use wine due to its alcohol content. Maybe they didn't want to drink vinegar.
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Post by 4dtruth on Aug 21, 2016 0:22:33 GMT -5
I have heard this account. And while I agree with the no judging part of it, I don't think children should be asked to cross rivers especially during a flood. Nice try twisting the account to further your agenda, but it seems fairly clear from this account that the children were not asked to swim rivers during a flood. They were sent on what was thought to be a short and non-dangerous errand on a route that had a bridge. "We knew that they could take a short cut across the river and through the woods"..." It turned out the river was flooded and the bridge was gone"..."They told us after that they had run way up river so they could swim across".
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Post by 4dtruth on Aug 21, 2016 0:23:29 GMT -5
8 year old boys sent to get wine? That would be illegal in some countries. Who said it has to be wine anyway? Some churches don't use wine due to its alcohol content. Good question....for one, 2x2 expert Cherie Kropp seems especially vehement about using wine Jesus instituted the sacraments and He and gave very plain instructions of what was to be used universally in remembrance of Him for all times. How dare man change this to what suits them better or is more convenient? And then claim their church is the closest way to the NT primitive church??? When they deviate from the NT instructions in carrying out this most holy sacrament? ?? So its OK to change Jesus instructions bcs it's easier to buy grape juice at the grocery store than to make a separate trip to another store to buy wine? How lame is that? What about suffering, self denial, putting the Lord first, giving your best etc. And not only have they had the audacity to change the wine to grape juice--they changed the bread also--to be the very OPPOSITE of the type Jesus used...to leavened - instead of unleavened! And then to minimize this disobedience with "it's only a symbol??" Prov 6:9-11 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep. It's never to late to wake up change traditions of men so they are following the commandments of God as close as possible. They've changed other things thru the years to be closer to scripture--I remember when F&Ws ended their prayers with "In THY name we ask" - and that was changed to "In Jesus name we ask." They've changed words in hymns. Seems to me, the very least that could be done in remembrance of Jesus for all he has done for us would be obey and follow EXACTLY as Jesus instituted it in the first place...not change a jot or tittle. In a church that claims it is the same the world over, you'd think this practice would the same everywhere--but its not, as noted above, and that's a shame IMO that should/could be corrected. Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Matthew 7:20-22 (KJV) 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? This account from Mexico certainly had "suffering, self denial, putting the Lord first, giving your best", and alcoholic wine. But far from receiving praise, the Exes will simply find something else to mock and criticize. If the story has them going to fetch a cup of wine, there will be posts berating the friends for exposing for children to alcohol and questioning if it's illegal. If the story has them going to fetch a cup of grape juice, there will be posts berating the friends about not using fermented wine as Jesus did, and claiming that religious use exemption is common and well established. If people risk life and limb to bring the emblems, they will be belittled for taking the chance. If people hold meeting without the emblems out of safety concerns, they will be belittled for not making the sacrifice. This is simply how the enemies of Truth operate, and its why I feel so comfortable in saying: "Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me"
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 21, 2016 1:03:13 GMT -5
8 year old boys sent to get wine? That would be illegal in some countries. Who said it has to be wine anyway? Some churches don't use wine due to its alcohol content. Good question....for one, 2x2 expert Cherie Kropp seems especially vehement about using wine Jesus instituted the sacraments and He and gave very plain instructions of what was to be used universally in remembrance of Him for all times. How dare man change this to what suits them better or is more convenient? And then claim their church is the closest way to the NT primitive church??? When they deviate from the NT instructions in carrying out this most holy sacrament? ?? So its OK to change Jesus instructions bcs it's easier to buy grape juice at the grocery store than to make a separate trip to another store to buy wine? How lame is that? What about suffering, self denial, putting the Lord first, giving your best etc. And not only have they had the audacity to change the wine to grape juice--they changed the bread also--to be the very OPPOSITE of the type Jesus used...to leavened - instead of unleavened! And then to minimize this disobedience with "it's only a symbol??" Prov 6:9-11 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep. It's never to late to wake up change traditions of men so they are following the commandments of God as close as possible. They've changed other things thru the years to be closer to scripture--I remember when F&Ws ended their prayers with "In THY name we ask" - and that was changed to "In Jesus name we ask." They've changed words in hymns. Seems to me, the very least that could be done in remembrance of Jesus for all he has done for us would be obey and follow EXACTLY as Jesus instituted it in the first place...not change a jot or tittle. In a church that claims it is the same the world over, you'd think this practice would the same everywhere--but its not, as noted above, and that's a shame IMO that should/could be corrected. Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Matthew 7:20-22 (KJV) 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? This account from Mexico certainly had "suffering, self denial, putting the Lord first, giving your best", and alcoholic wine. But far from receiving praise, the Exes will simply find something else to mock and criticize. If the story has them going to fetch a cup of wine, there will be posts berating the friends for exposing for children to alcohol and questioning if it's illegal. If the story has them going to fetch a cup of grape juice, there will be posts berating the friends about not using fermented wine as Jesus did, and claiming that religious use exemption is common and well established. If people risk life and limb to bring the emblems, they will be belittled for taking the chance. If people hold meeting without the emblems out of safety concerns, they will be belittled for not making the sacrifice. This is simply how the enemies of Truth operate, and its why I feel so comfortable in saying: "Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me" calleduntoliberty, please read the last line of what 4dtruth has posted ! "This is simply how the enemies of Truth operate," ! 4dtruth who and what are "enemies of "truth" ? What is "truth" ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2016 17:31:41 GMT -5
This is simply how the enemies of Truth operate, and its why I feel so comfortable in saying: "Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me" *** Hmmm
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2016 17:33:26 GMT -5
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2016 1:07:59 GMT -5
8 year old boys sent to get wine? That would be illegal in some countries. Who said it has to be wine anyway? Some churches don't use wine due to its alcohol content. Good question....for one, 2x2 expert Cherie Kropp seems especially vehement about using wine Jesus instituted the sacraments and He and gave very plain instructions of what was to be used universally in remembrance of Him for all times. How dare man change this to what suits them better or is more convenient? And then claim their church is the closest way to the NT primitive church??? When they deviate from the NT instructions in carrying out this most holy sacrament? ?? So its OK to change Jesus instructions bcs it's easier to buy grape juice at the grocery store than to make a separate trip to another store to buy wine? How lame is that? What about suffering, self denial, putting the Lord first, giving your best etc. And not only have they had the audacity to change the wine to grape juice--they changed the bread also--to be the very OPPOSITE of the type Jesus used...to leavened - instead of unleavened! And then to minimize this disobedience with "it's only a symbol??" Prov 6:9-11 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep. It's never to late to wake up change traditions of men so they are following the commandments of God as close as possible. They've changed other things thru the years to be closer to scripture--I remember when F&Ws ended their prayers with "In THY name we ask" - and that was changed to "In Jesus name we ask." They've changed words in hymns. Seems to me, the very least that could be done in remembrance of Jesus for all he has done for us would be obey and follow EXACTLY as Jesus instituted it in the first place...not change a jot or tittle. In a church that claims it is the same the world over, you'd think this practice would the same everywhere--but its not, as noted above, and that's a shame IMO that should/could be corrected. Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Matthew 7:20-22 (KJV) 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? This account from Mexico certainly had "suffering, self denial, putting the Lord first, giving your best", and alcoholic wine. But far from receiving praise, the Exes will simply find something else to mock and criticize. If the story has them going to fetch a cup of wine, there will be posts berating the friends for exposing for children to alcohol and questioning if it's illegal. If the story has them going to fetch a cup of grape juice, there will be posts berating the friends about not using fermented wine as Jesus did, and claiming that religious use exemption is common and well established. If people risk life and limb to bring the emblems, they will be belittled for taking the chance. If people hold meeting without the emblems out of safety concerns, they will be belittled for not making the sacrifice. This is simply how the enemies of Truth operate, and its why I feel so comfortable in saying: "Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me" How did wine turn to vinegar in only 2 days?
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Post by Grant on Aug 30, 2016 3:21:56 GMT -5
4dtruth obviously thinks their is nothing wrong in sending 8 year old boys to get a bottle of wine even of it means breaking the law. I wonder which is of Satan, teaching our kids good values or sending them to get wine? He also obviously has no kids and knows nothing about teaching them by example.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 5:10:00 GMT -5
8 year old boys sent to get wine? That would be illegal in some countries. Who said it has to be wine anyway? Some churches don't use wine due to its alcohol content. Gosh, gasp! I do hope that Donald Trump doesn't read on here, one more to score against The Mexicans.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 5:20:09 GMT -5
8 year old boys sent to get wine? That would be illegal in some countries. Who said it has to be wine anyway? Some churches don't use wine due to its alcohol content. I can accept grape juice being used instead of wine since it is also the fruit of the vine.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2016 11:19:53 GMT -5
8 year old boys sent to get wine? That would be illegal in some countries. Who said it has to be wine anyway? Some churches don't use wine due to its alcohol content. I can accept grape juice being used instead of wine since it is also the fruit of the vine. In old times grape juice was called "new wine". I believe that the Jews started out with new wine until they hot the old wine made. In the French West Indies they can't get grape juice all the time so they use some red fruit juice as blood is red.
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Post by Grant on Aug 30, 2016 11:34:33 GMT -5
Could you please explain what you mean by they hot the old wine made?
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Post by vanillagorilla on Aug 30, 2016 11:35:10 GMT -5
8 year old boys sent to get wine? That would be illegal in some countries. Who said it has to be wine anyway? Some churches don't use wine due to its alcohol content. Gosh, gasp! I do hope that Donald Trump doesn't read on here, one more to score against The Mexicans. The authenticity of this comment will lead to him building a wall around your comment
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2016 16:14:43 GMT -5
Could you please explain what you mean by they hot the old wine made? Thanks to my smart phone it's always changing my spelling. Sorry. The hot was supposed to be got.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 16:17:21 GMT -5
Gosh, gasp! I do hope that Donald Trump doesn't read on here, one more to score against The Mexicans. The authenticity of this comment will lead to him building a wall around your comment How high? i hope that it wont be an unsurmountable one.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2016 16:18:03 GMT -5
Gosh, gasp! I do hope that Donald Trump doesn't read on here, one more to score against The Mexicans. The authenticity of this comment will lead to him building a wall around your comment Let's just hope and pray dingbat trump won't get in a position to do such things. He's apt to start WWIII and push atomic bomb buttons right and left. I'm not surethe man iisn't in beginning stages of Alzheimer's or he a pathological ideation of gradioseness.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 16:29:43 GMT -5
The authenticity of this comment will lead to him building a wall around your comment Let's just hope and pray dingbat trump won't get in a position to do such things. He's apt to start WWIII and push atomic bomb buttons right and left. I'm not surethe man iisn't in beginning stages of Alzheimer's or he a pathological ideation of gradioseness. No such chance if Alzheimers sets in, he would not even remember how to start his car let alone start world war three.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2016 21:41:27 GMT -5
Let's just hope and pray dingbat trump won't get in a position to do such things. He's apt to start WWIII and push atomic bomb buttons right and left. I'm not surethe man iisn't in beginning stages of Alzheimer's or he a pathological ideation of gradioseness. No such chance if Alzheimers sets in, he would not even remember how to start his car let alone start world war three. Alzheimer patients don't get that bad that quick. He is showing the angry fighting stage IMO. He also is narcisstic in wanting the attention. Truth be told he maybbeca living robot for Russian president Putin. He's hollered elections going to be rigged. And guess what there's a couple of states have had their elections hacked already.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 0:58:58 GMT -5
This post got away from me, intended this portion first to address the "wine" issue. It was always my belief that unlike the RC religion, to those of us in our fellowship both bread and wine are symbolic. In that case, there have been numerous times whe I had to address the issue of their absence, so I would, and did, pointing out their symbolism. We then thanked our God for purity found in partaking of His life, and then the redeeming blood of The Lamb. Not one ever objected, not once nor was I rebuked for my position, which I would much prefer to sending small children on even the shortest missions.
Now then, in response to those taking this thread off track in support of their own political views, I'd like to just add these thoughts and comments.
Wondering just how many here know what percentage of popular vote elected A. Lincoln?
Just 40%. Yes you read correctly, only 40% of voters elected Lincoln POTUS. Like Trump, the rest of the population despised him like some here despise Trump, when he was elected.
Though I am NOT a Trump fan at this P.I.T., I am part of the trump movement which I perceive necessary to correct the course of the country, if only by spreading the corruption around a little. It is my perception that if becoming POTUS and he transgresses in the least, this man will be one of the easiest to remove in the history of the country. One reason why I personally liked his choice of VP.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2016 3:35:17 GMT -5
This post got away from me, intended this portion first to address the "wine" issue. It was always my belief that unlike the RC religion, to those of us in our fellowship both bread and wine are symbolic. In that case, there have been numerous times whe I had to address the issue of their absence, so I would, and did, pointing out their symbolism. We then thanked our God for purity found in partaking of His life, and then the redeeming blood of The Lamb. Not one ever objected, not once nor was I rebuked for my position, which I would much prefer to sending small children on even the shortest missions.
Now then, in response to those taking this thread off track in support of their own political views, I'd like to just add these thoughts and comments.
Wondering just how many here know what percentage of popular vote elected A. Lincoln?
Just 40%. Yes you read correctly, only 40% of voters elected Lincoln POTUS. Like Trump, the rest of the population despised him like some here despise Trump, when he was elected.
Though I am NOT a Trump fan at this P.I.T., I am part of the trump movement which I perceive necessary to correct the course of the country, if only by spreading the corruption around a little. It is my perception that if becoming POTUS and he transgresses in the least, this man will be one of the easiest to remove in the history of the country. One reason why I personally liked his choice of VP. How will it be easy?
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