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Post by faune on Jul 26, 2016 12:48:25 GMT -5
Yes, TS was a close friend of his and I believe the friend that Nathan referred to in his previous post who introduced Daniel to his wife. There is also a picture of his wife in mug shots photos of both in newspaper article referenced at beginning of this thread by leader. Whatever happened to TS who also posted a lot on this board in the past? TS, contacted me not too long ago, he was and is posting with different names also. I enjoy reading his posts.Nathan ~ Thanks for update. I just heard from TS today and learned that he was not the one that introduced Daniel (Alexander on TMB) to his wife ~ it was somebody else. He never knew his wife back then.
Also, are you sure that Sacerdotal was one of Daniel's usernames here on TMB? His posts are very political and I never took Daniel as being very involved in politics? But, that name did come to mind when I read your post about the other names used on TMB. Could you clarify, Nathan?
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Post by faune on Jul 26, 2016 15:03:48 GMT -5
TS, contacted me not too long ago, he was and is posting with different names also. I enjoy reading his posts. That's odd - ts wrote me the opposite this past Sunday, July 24: "I am done posting on TMB"
When I asked what caused him to make this decision he emailed me a long post about why he's finished with TMB. My nutshell take from his explanation was that he came to the place where he determined it was more important to do whatever it takes to keep a soft heart and being attentive to the Holy Spirit. He realized that being on TMB was making his heart somewhat hard, and that prevented the Holy Spirit from working fully in him, so he left TMB for good. He is now busy witnessing about Jesus to those he comes in contact with. NATE re your comment "he was and is posting with different names" - Who is "HE"? Ts also told me he's never written on TMB under any other user name than ts. Perhaps you meant Daniel posted under different names which is true--but your post sounds like you're saying ts did so and he hasn't. Ts said he will contact you about this error. SaveCherie ~ I believe you are right about it being Daniel who posted on TMB under other names ~ not TS? Nathan stated the same below. I just heard from TS today and he confirmed he was busy witnessing and not involved with TMB as far as posting goes. He might read here occasionally, but that's about it. Also, TS advised me that it was not him that introduced Daniel to his wife. It was some other friend of Daniel's. TS never knew his wife until later after they were married.
Perhaps you can clear up something for me, too? Was Sacerdotal one of Daniel's other usernames on TMB in the past perchance? I know Alexander was one used back in 2011 from Scott's posting of the family picture before he exited the board, but don't remember any other names that Daniel might have posted under previously.
Nathan's post shown below:
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Post by rational on Jul 26, 2016 16:47:47 GMT -5
This is so sad,O my! So yes it can happen but I guess it would be less likely. I agree 100% with lets wait and see what the verdict will be. What a shame that these girls got privileges and opportunities they would not likely have gotten back in their home country living in a orphanage and what do they do,bite the hands that feed and clothe them ruining their adopted parents lives and 50 plus others!This is just sick and disgusting! Hopefully they were send back to Russia ? What do you know about the family with whom they were living? What was the cost to the girls for the privledges and opportunities you feel they got? Condemning the girls without knowledge of both sides of the issue seems - oh how to put it - unchristianlike?
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Post by mdm on Jul 27, 2016 7:32:16 GMT -5
Obviously you weren't around during the Michigan Russian twins episode. Two female professing twins about 17-18 lied and took down the reputations of about 50 workers and friends they said had sex with them; caused financial ruin for some having to defend themselves; divided the entire state; caused 2 sister workers to leave the work, friends took sides. Their siblings were taken away from their professing parents, their parents were excommunicated over the matter and their elderly grandparents meeting was taken away...I doubt Michigan has healed yet and probably never will... It went to court and the twins finally admitted to lying about the whole thing. Before this, the twins were hoping to go in the work. This saga all took place over about 2 years time. Some male workers were suspended; an elderly one was involuntarily retired. So much agony and pain...I was a WINGS group member then, and we followed it closely. It's all on TMB somewhere and probably the WINGS Forum too. It's bcs of this that some of us are very reluctant to believe what the young girls are saying...without further proof and prefer to withhold judgment...especially as we feel we knew the father pretty well through TMB. He posted tons about his life and how the F&W were mistreating, shunning he and his family--but may have deleted some of it. They were pushed out of meetings--yet they still wanted to go. What happened to them is called a "spiritual killing." I urge everyone not to be hasty in judging or condemning...til the investigation and facts are all known. SaveThis is so sad,O my! So yes it can happen but I guess it would be less likely. I agree 100% with lets wait and see what the verdict will be. What a shame that these girls got privileges and opportunities they would not likely have gotten back in their home country living in a orphanage and what do they do,bite the hands that feed and clothe them ruining their adopted parents lives and 50 plus others!This is just sick and disgusting!Hopefully they were send back to Russia ? Things are not that simple. These are traumatized children, and they need therapy and healing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 11:30:38 GMT -5
This is so sad,O my! So yes it can happen but I guess it would be less likely. I agree 100% with lets wait and see what the verdict will be. What a shame that these girls got privileges and opportunities they would not likely have gotten back in their home country living in a orphanage and what do they do,bite the hands that feed and clothe them ruining their adopted parents lives and 50 plus others!This is just sick and disgusting!Hopefully they were send back to Russia ? Things are not that simple. These are traumatized children, and they need therapy and healing. There is NO excuse for what they did,what do you mean they were traumatized,do you know them? There should be a sentence for lying and defamation of character,look how many lives they traumatized with their lies!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 11:37:15 GMT -5
This is so sad,O my! So yes it can happen but I guess it would be less likely. I agree 100% with lets wait and see what the verdict will be. What a shame that these girls got privileges and opportunities they would not likely have gotten back in their home country living in a orphanage and what do they do,bite the hands that feed and clothe them ruining their adopted parents lives and 50 plus others!This is just sick and disgusting!Hopefully they were send back to Russia ? The adoptive parents still consider the twins their grown children. One twin CE home after her psychological treatment was over. The other twin stayed withe older sister worker for a while. The twin that came home apologized with great tears to her parents and grandparents. Her grandfather had Alzheimer's and died about 3 yrs ago. Grandmother is badly crippled with arthritis. All the Russian a adopted children and parents go to grandmother's for Sun am MTG. The children help their grandmother withyard and house work. They even keep her garden producing. Russian children that have been adopted are found to have serious problems esp psychological oproblems. DHS helped parents getcavgrip on how to better deal with these youngsters and the enforced being sent to foster caused those kids toappreciate their parents . One Russiantwin has taken some kind of hob ttraining. She still sees the psychiatrist as does the other twin. I belivevboth twins came home for a while. Grandmother has her 94th bday this month. Thanks for the info,I still say they had no excuse for what they did psychological problems or not. Obviously one feels for them regarding their psychological trauma they must have suffered and one is glad that they seem to have sincerely repented but what about the lives that they destroyed in the process ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 11:43:13 GMT -5
This is so sad,O my! So yes it can happen but I guess it would be less likely. I agree 100% with lets wait and see what the verdict will be. What a shame that these girls got privileges and opportunities they would not likely have gotten back in their home country living in a orphanage and what do they do,bite the hands that feed and clothe them ruining their adopted parents lives and 50 plus others!This is just sick and disgusting! Hopefully they were send back to Russia ? What do you know about the family with whom they were living? What was the cost to the girls for the privledges and opportunities you feel they got? Condemning the girls without knowledge of both sides of the issue seems - oh how to put it - unchristianlike? They were found guilty by their own admission in a court of law according to Cherie! Do you know about any sinister COST they had to pay for their privileges/opportunities? If not ,why are you condemning the parents when these girls have all ready admitted their sin. Hopefully we are talking about the same girls(Russian twins) ? I am all for criminals paying the price when they are found guilty as supported by the Bible!
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Post by mdm on Jul 27, 2016 12:51:11 GMT -5
Things are not that simple. These are traumatized children, and they need therapy and healing. There is NO excuse for what they did,what do you mean they were traumatized,do you know them? There should be a sentence for lying and defamation of character,look how many lives they traumatized with their lies!!!!! I have adopted children and am familiar first hand with what abandonment and growing up in an institution during most crucial years do to children. That's the trauma I was referring to. You can look it up on the internet if you wish. Sometimes everyone is a victim, and there is no one to blame for bad things that happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 13:37:00 GMT -5
There is NO excuse for what they did,what do you mean they were traumatized,do you know them? There should be a sentence for lying and defamation of character,look how many lives they traumatized with their lies!!!!! I have adopted children and am familiar first hand with what abandonment and growing up in an institution during most crucial years do to children. That's the trauma I was referring to. You can look it up on the internet if you wish. Sometimes everyone is a victim, and there is no one to blame for bad things that happen. It still does not give them a excuse for what they have done and they need to face the consequences of their actions especially since they were teenagers.I have been brought up in a abusive home but that is not going to help me get away from consequences that I will face if I make wrong choices especially those that effect other people.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 27, 2016 14:28:27 GMT -5
The adoptive parents still consider the twins their grown children. One twin CE home after her psychological treatment was over. The other twin stayed withe older sister worker for a while. The twin that came home apologized with great tears to her parents and grandparents. Her grandfather had Alzheimer's and died about 3 yrs ago. Grandmother is badly crippled with arthritis. All the Russian a adopted children and parents go to grandmother's for Sun am MTG. The children help their grandmother withyard and house work. They even keep her garden producing. Russian children that have been adopted are found to have serious problems esp psychological oproblems. DHS helped parents getcavgrip on how to better deal with these youngsters and the enforced being sent to foster caused those kids toappreciate their parents . One Russiantwin has taken some kind of hob ttraining. She still sees the psychiatrist as does the other twin. I belivevboth twins came home for a while. Grandmother has her 94th bday this month. Thanks for the info,I still say they had no excuse for what they did psychological problems or not. Obviously one feels for them regarding their psychological trauma they must have suffered and one is glad that they seem to have sincerely repented but what about the lives that they destroyed in the process ? Psychological. Illness can be exhibit many ways. There's never knowingon wwhat form it'll exhibit itself. Always negative some more destructive then others. One can understand how it used to be considered demon possessed not so many years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 20:35:13 GMT -5
I don't know Daniel. I remember his wife when she was in the work in Ohio late 1980s. They took on too much for one thing. There is often two sides to every story. I don't know anything other than what is stated in the new reports.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jul 27, 2016 23:09:51 GMT -5
Don't know, guess I didn't put that much thought into my word choice. I grew up viewing the church as perfect, so in my mind it has fallen far. Maybe this stuff was going on from the beginning though. I don't know. And it's not at all unique to the Friends and Workers. Indeed it's not. And wherever you are, 'leader', you're just as much "associated" with it as most friends and workers.
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Post by rational on Jul 28, 2016 11:43:32 GMT -5
There is NO excuse for what they did,what do you mean they were traumatized,do you know them? Did you? What additional information can you share? There are a number of laws and associated punishments that cover these offenses.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 28, 2016 17:35:48 GMT -5
That's odd - ts wrote me the opposite this past Sunday, July 24: "I am done posting on TMB"
When I asked what caused him to make this decision he emailed me a long post about why he's finished with TMB. My nutshell take from his explanation was that he came to the place where he determined it was more important to do whatever it takes to keep a soft heart and being attentive to the Holy Spirit. He realized that being on TMB was making his heart somewhat hard, and that prevented the Holy Spirit from working fully in him, so he left TMB for good. He is now busy witnessing about Jesus to those he comes in contact with. NATE re your comment "he was and is posting with different names" - Who is "HE"? Ts also told me he's never written on TMB under any other user name than ts. Perhaps you meant Daniel posted under different names which is true--but your post sounds like you're saying ts did so and he hasn't. Ts said he will contact you about this error. Save I got this from TS today....Hey Nathan I do not post on TMB anymore and I have never used another name to post under. I have always been TS from the beginning. I have not posted for nearly 3 years on the open board. Only a private message now and again. There were those who write like Ts, but under different alias, so I thought it was him but I didn't care because I just answer the posts or posters, who address to me. Like I said I enjoy reading Ts posts. We chat on the phone a few times on different subjects.Does Daniel have a twin brother who also was in the work?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 29, 2016 0:56:13 GMT -5
Does Daniel have a twin brother who also was in the work? I don't know that information, STR...Thank you. Different Daniel.
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Post by faune on Jul 31, 2016 15:50:07 GMT -5
Nathan ~ Thanks for update. I just heard from TS today and learned that he was not the one that introduced Daniel (Alexander on TMB) to his wife ~ it was somebody else. He never knew his wife back then.
Also, are you sure that Sacerdotal was one of Daniel's usernames here on TMB? His posts are very political and I never took Daniel as being very involved in politics? But, that name did come to mind when I read your post about the other names used on TMB. Could you clarify, Nathan?
People have used different alias on tmb sometimes, this way they don't get attacked under the same name. It seems some people like to attack at certain one's posts.... But if they changed/post under different alias then they don't get attacked as much.... However, eventually the readers will recognize it's the same person, who posts under different alias.
I know in the past some have posted under another person name, and pretend to be so and so... There was a time this TMB was like the Wild, Wild West days.
Perhaps you can PM me with some of these alternate usernames so as I can check out their postings and determine any similarities to Alexander?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 31, 2016 19:05:13 GMT -5
Things are not that simple. These are traumatized children, and they need therapy and healing. There is NO excuse for what they did,what do you mean they were traumatized,do you know them? There should be a sentence for lying and defamation of character,look how many lives they traumatized with their lies!!!!! They did receive sentences for their lying bring false allegations against over 120 men some who they didn't even know. Someine feed them names However their sentence was to spend time in the state sanatorium and go under psychological testing and treatment. Which they did and if they wish to keep out of trouble they will continue seeing their psychiatrist for life. So I was informed
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Post by ellie on Aug 23, 2016 22:36:24 GMT -5
TS, contacted me not too long ago, he was and is posting with different names also. I enjoy reading his posts. I wonder why people change user names? I understand when they deleted their membership, then decide to post again, but some have multiple active names. Can anyone explain why? Maybe some people create new profiles in hope of a clean slate. Some personalities seem relatively consistent though.
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Post by ellie on Aug 23, 2016 23:17:15 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2016 4:08:45 GMT -5
Nathan, I have heard people use that sentence as rationalization trying to limit the damage done by those so-called "rotten apples."
Although it is true that there may be just a few, -but if the majority allows the incidents happen and cover them up instead of doing something to stop them they are just as rotten as the others.
The damage is done. Most of the friends and workers do NOT condone the workers, overseers who covered the incidents up for their fellow-workers... William Irvine, Ira H. Leslie W. and others had been removed from the ministry.Many criminals don't condone their own actions, but it doesn't stop them!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2016 4:11:33 GMT -5
If person "A" hears from person "B" that person "C" is abusing children and person "A" believes person "B" then there is suspicion. If person "A" hears from person "B" that person "B" suspects person "C" is abusing children, then person "A" is not obliged to report the suspicion of person "B".......only their own suspicion. At least that is how it works in our jurisdiction. Maybe in other places it is different. In many parts of the so called civilised world there is no legal obligation to report these matters. People report them out of a moral, civic duty, spiritual concern, etc. They know it is the right thing to do!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 15:56:01 GMT -5
I used to hear Janise preach at Yellow Springs. I never knew what happened to her after she left Ohio.
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Post by gsamuelwalker on Sept 6, 2016 22:41:50 GMT -5
Any updates on this topic?
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Post by gsamuelwalker on Sept 25, 2016 15:01:17 GMT -5
Does anyone have an update on this topic?
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Post by faune on Sept 27, 2016 22:53:12 GMT -5
Does anyone have an update on this topic? I was wondering the same thing tonight, which is why I logged into TMB tonight. It seems this is the last update going back to July 21, 2016. They had a Court date coming up in late August, if I remember right?
hsinvisiblechildren.org/2016/08/09/14-children-of-daniel-and-jenise-spurgeon/#more-4201
This seems to be the most up to date information due to the Investigation being presently ongoing, which gives background regarding this case?
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Post by withlove on Sept 28, 2016 0:09:42 GMT -5
Does anyone have an update on this topic? I was wondering the same thing tonight, which is why I logged into TMB tonight. It seems this is the last update going back to July 21, 2016. They had a Court date coming up in late August, if I remember right?
hsinvisiblechildren.org/2016/08/09/14-children-of-daniel-and-jenise-spurgeon/#more-4201
This seems to be the most up to date information due to the Investigation being presently ongoing, which gives background regarding this case?
Arraignment was set for August 22, I believe. I haven't found any info about whether it happened.
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 28, 2016 7:54:14 GMT -5
Legal definition of Arraignment:
A criminal proceeding at which the defendant is officially called before a court of competent jurisdiction, informed of the offense charged in the complaint, information, indictment, or other charging document, and asked to enter a plea of guilty, not guilty, or as otherwise permitted by law. Depending on the jurisdiction, arraignment may also be the proceeding at which the court determines whether to set bail for the defendant or release the defendant on his or her own recognizance.
Although the initial appearance of the arrested person before a magistrate is sometimes referred to as an arraignment, it is not a true arraignment, which only comes after the defendant has been both arrested and formally charged. In all but extremely rare cases, arraignment also takes place before any suppression hearings and the trial itself. The interests at issue in an arraignment are the defendant's right to know of the charges against him or her and the defendant's right to have adequate information from which to prepare a defense. The state also has an interest in having the defendant make a plea so it can prepare accordingly.
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Post by faune on Sept 28, 2016 12:16:52 GMT -5
I was wondering the same thing tonight, which is why I logged into TMB tonight. It seems this is the last update going back to July 21, 2016. They had a Court date coming up in late August, if I remember right?
hsinvisiblechildren.org/2016/08/09/14-children-of-daniel-and-jenise-spurgeon/#more-4201
This seems to be the most up to date information due to the Investigation being presently ongoing, which gives background regarding this case?
Arraignment was set for August 22, I believe. I haven't found any info about whether it happened. Withlove ~ Thanks for providing us with this date. When I checked for more info. on line, nothing came up but the above link as being the most current. However, we know how Court dates linger on for months before ever coming to trial. It really sickens me that two married ex-workers committed these acts they are accused of by 11 of the foster children, with five (5) of the girls saying they were sexually abused by the father. That's just beyond belief and so sick!
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