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Post by quincy on Mar 16, 2016 0:21:45 GMT -5
Just had a nice visit with 2 sister workers. I am so glad for their sacrifice for the Gospel of Christ.
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 16, 2016 11:13:11 GMT -5
Welcome quincy.
TMBers are a diversified group of people...with meetings in common. Some are innies (aka F&W) and others are outies (Ex2x2s); and some were raised in meetings, but never professed; and a few other associations. Some left meetings long time ago, and others only recently. TMBers are at all different stages in their lives. Some F&W are non-exclusive - in other words, they do not believe meetings are God's only true way on earth.
We also have diversified beliefs...so please remember this and dont paint us all with the same brush.
Do you and the sisters you met with believe meetings are God's only true way on earth? That salvation can only be obtained by professing through workers and attending meetings thereafter?
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Mar 17, 2016 15:13:24 GMT -5
Just had a nice visit with 2 sister workers. I am so glad for their sacrifice for the Gospel of Christ. What sacrifice are you referring to? And we all know, don't we?
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Post by SharonArnold on Mar 17, 2016 15:31:38 GMT -5
What sacrifice are you referring to? And we all know, don't we? Of course we do!
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 21, 2016 2:46:17 GMT -5
Just had a nice visit with 2 sister workers. I am so glad for their sacrifice for the Gospel of Christ. Quincy, welcome to our family.
Don't get too upset with the responses that you are getting.
We on here wear coats of many different colors. (NOT a coat of many colors but many different colored coat)
Those two sister workers DID believe that they were making a sacrifice to bring you what they considered the Gospel of Christ.
Ps: what does your name stand for, a city Quincy IL or Quincy MA?
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Post by breakfree on Mar 21, 2016 3:30:59 GMT -5
To obey is better than sacrifice. The sacrifice is not as important as obedience to GOD's Word. Many are called ,but few are chosen. If we feel that our sacrifice is so wonderful, we are thinking that we are doing so much for God,but we can never out -give God. God requires A living sacrifice,our life ....regardless of the capacity in which we serve....
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Post by joanna on Mar 21, 2016 4:17:25 GMT -5
Hello quincy, just a word of warning: if you enjoy discussions &/or debating then this forum can be addictive I had a close, loved relative who was a worker and believe that she and her peers do make sacrifices: they are not free to participate in normal practices that most people are. I was raised in the meetings and left some years ago and it saddens me to think of young people still going out to preach. CherieKropp has referred to exclusivity but unless a person is a religious pluralist and believes that 'all roads lead to Rome' or all beliefs lead to salvation, then they too are exclusive in their beliefs. Christians tend to believe that only Jesus saves. Those christians who consider that adherence to a particular brand of christianity is not necessary to attain salvation are less exclusive than those who narrow this down to a belief in a singular denomination as a prerequisite to eternal life. Nevertheless they are still exclusive.
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Post by quincy on Mar 23, 2016 22:32:25 GMT -5
Just had a nice visit with 2 sister workers. I am so glad for their sacrifice for the Gospel of Christ. What sacrifice are you referring to? Foregoing marriage. Leaving all to preach the Gospel as per the Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Acts, etc. Loving God more than mammon.
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Post by maryhig on Mar 24, 2016 1:48:39 GMT -5
What sacrifice are you referring to? Foregoing marriage. Leaving all to preach the Gospel as per the Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Acts, etc. Loving God more than mammon. Except for the foregoing of marriage, (although it's good to do this if you want to give your all to God)..... all Gods people should be doing the rest of what you have said. We are to be living sacrifices, and should all be bringing the gospel to others and loving God. You can't serve God and Mammon, as you said. But that sacrifice is for all that love God, not just the workers.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Mar 30, 2016 16:58:51 GMT -5
Hello quincy, just a word of warning: if you enjoy discussions &/or debating then this forum can be addictive I had a close, loved relative who was a worker and believe that she and her peers do make sacrifices: they are not free to participate in normal practices that most people are. I was raised in the meetings and left some years ago and it saddens me to think of young people still going out to preach. CherieKropp has referred to exclusivity but unless a person is a religious pluralist and believes that 'all roads lead to Rome' or all beliefs lead to salvation, then they too are exclusive in their beliefs. Christians tend to believe that only Jesus saves. Those christians who consider that adherence to a particular brand of christianity is not necessary to attain salvation are less exclusive than those who narrow this down to a belief in a singular denomination as a prerequisite to eternal life. Nevertheless they are still exclusive. It has come to me that people form and choose a particular sect of Christianity that is more like the social castes they prefer. Perhaps some have less ability to envision something else because of the limitations of their expectations. Their desires to dig deeper than the sect they chose normally digs and mostly their inability to expand their mental acuity to something more in depth and perhaps some just cannot possible get deeper in spiritual quests. Nothing wrong in that except when it's deliberate refusal to try to look truths square on. JMO
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Post by searcher on Dec 28, 2016 8:03:50 GMT -5
Just had a nice visit with 2 sister workers. I am so glad for their sacrifice for the Gospel of Christ. I realize this thread is old, but as a relative newcomer, I came upon this. This simple statement speaks volumes. A visit with the workers creates a focus on the workers, not Christ. When workers come to my home, conversation revolves around workers, what they are doing, where they are going, what conventions they go to, etc, etc. Not a word of praise for God, not a mention of Christ. Mention something I've been studying, like the ways in which Christ fulfilled the feasts in the OT, or the significance of some prophesy, and an awkward silence ensues. They become deer in headlights because they have no idea what I'm talking about. I have listened carefully to the testimonies at convention. The majority gush appreciation for the workers, the day the workers came, the day they met the workers, the convention, meetings, etc. I became aware that when we referred to "the Truth" that we weren't talking about Jesus, we were talking about the ministry. The "gospel" is mostly about the ministry. Salvation comes from following the ministry. When we are asked to "give our testimony" it's supposed to be when we met the workers. This is spiritual idolotry. Talking about Jesus is not the same as preaching Jesus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 11:37:12 GMT -5
Just had a nice visit with 2 sister workers. I am so glad for their sacrifice for the Gospel of Christ. I realize this thread is old, but as a relative newcomer, I came upon this. This simple statement speaks volumes. A visit with the workers creates a focus on the workers, not Christ. When workers come to my home, conversation revolves around workers, what they are doing, where they are going, what conventions they go to, etc, etc. Not a word of praise for God, not a mention of Christ. Mention something I've been studying, like the ways in which Christ fulfilled the feasts in the OT, or the significance of some prophesy, and an awkward silence ensues. They become deer in headlights because they have no idea what I'm talking about. I have listened carefully to the testimonies at convention. The majority gush appreciation for the workers, the day the workers came, the day they met the workers, the convention, meetings, etc. I became aware that when we referred to "the Truth" that we weren't talking about Jesus, we were talking about the ministry. The "gospel" is mostly about the ministry. Salvation comes from following the ministry. When we are asked to "give our testimony" it's supposed to be when we met the workers. This is spiritual idolotry. Talking about Jesus is not the same as preaching Jesus. Run your observations through your mind a few more times. Do you know of any other groups which have the same characteristics you describe? Jehovah Witnesses is one such group. The Moonies are one such group. Scientology is one such group. It's a cult. That's how cults operate. I know it's hard to swallow that you are in a cult, because only 'crazy' people are in cults, but actually many smart people get caught up in cults. It's not your fault, you just wanted to believe and they took advantage of that. And frankly very few of them even know that they are perpetuating a cult, because they are so far inside it that they have no external reference points. It's great that you saw the 'cracks', and maybe now you can start to extricate yourself from the 2x2 cult. It will be difficult because 2x2ism has warped the way its members talk about certain things. Forever when you hear the word 'workers' you will not think of people working, but of 2x2 ministers. Forever when you hear the word 'convention' you will not think of a gathering of business professionals, but instead of a 2x2 4 day gathering. When you hear the word 'worldly'. When you hear the word 'the truth'. When you hear the word 'gospel'. It takes a long time to get your mind sorted from these wrong associations, and it will at many times feel like you are a lost soul caught between two worlds. I encourage you to cut off all contact with any 2x2s you know, start attending a local mainline christian church and get involved with it - this is the fastest path to sorting out your mind. Once you are firmly emotionally and intellectually strong, then you can resume friendly relations with any 2x2s you knew. It's just not healthy to talk to them during the recovery phase.
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Post by searcher on Dec 28, 2016 15:49:46 GMT -5
I'm not free just to walk away. My spouse is still very much in it to the point of actually believing that there are some things that have been passed down from the apostles to the present day workers that are not in the bible. Believe me we have had some discussions about this.
I go to meeting for now because that is my fellowship not my salvation, and to keep my marriage intact. Some of the older ones in meeting talk about "God's truth and way" (meaning meeting and the ministry), but most do not, keeping their testimony about Christ. I leave the timing of my exit to the Lord.
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Post by alistairhenderson on Dec 28, 2016 16:41:37 GMT -5
Where are you (country) if you don't mind me asking, searcher123?
As for things being passed down that are not in the bible, you can tell your spouse they would be right at home in the Catholic church...they put tradition (as in teaching, not customs) and the bible on the same level...such as Mary being caught up to heaven also etc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 16:42:32 GMT -5
I'm not free just to walk away. My spouse is still very much in it to the point of actually believing that there are some things that have been passed down from the apostles to the present day workers that are not in the bible. Believe me we have had some discussions about this. I go to meeting for now because that is my fellowship not my salvation, and to keep my marriage intact. Some of the older ones in meeting talk about "God's truth and way" (meaning meeting and the ministry), but most do not, keeping their testimony about Christ. I leave the timing of my exit to the Lord. Clearly you are in a difficult situation because your spouse is still a hardcore inductee. I encourage you to work out a long term strategy about how you are going to deal with your spouse. It will take time, but if you have patience and good tactics you will prevail. How strong do you think your marriage is? I hope it is stronger than your spouse's ties to 2x2ism, but.... Some ideas: 1) Have you tried going to another church by yourself every once in a while? Maybe find a church which has a weekday bible study or mass that you can attend. This way you could still attend 2x2 meetings on Sunday as well. This would be a great way to test to see how your spouse reacts. There might be a bit of fireworks initially, but after a while the spouse will probably make peace with the idea. Remember that your spouse wants to stay married just as much as you do - and they have to compromise don't they? 2)One day then you might ask your spouse if they could join you at a social event at your 'new' church - maybe for a potluck or whatever, just an excuse to introduce them to your new fellowship and demonstrate that you aren't gallivanting with the devil. Repeat that event a few times, get the spouse more comfortable. 3) Then suggest maybe the spouse join you at the 'new' church for a bible study - say that everyone at church has been wanting to hear your spouse's 'bread'. Repeat this a few times. 4)Then maybe on Holy Week, ask your spouse to attend the Maundy Thursday or Good Friday service with you - it's not on Sunday so can't conflict with 2x2 meeting. Maybe you can even convince them to attend the Saturday Easter Vigil. Go slow with this, be patient, don't expect it work without a few hiccups. 5) Introduce your spouse to the priest or someone knowledgeable at your new church who can talk to your spouse about this '2x2 apostolic succession' fantasy they have. 6) Now maybe you might tell you spouse that you are going to attend 2x2 sunday meeting every second Sunday, with the other Sunday at your new church instead. See what the reaction is. Maybe you can compromise that both you do 3/4 2x2 Sundays and 1/4 Sundays at non-2x2 church. You have to slowly wean your spouse off of the 2x2 cult. Your spouse will come off it, but you have to be slow and gentle. Expect to have fireworks. Slowly you can increase it to 1/2 of Sundays at 2x2 and 1/2 non-2x2. 7) Sooner or later your spouse is going to get a 'talking to' from the 2x2 ministers about the backsliding that you two have been doing - when this conversation happens you want to be very prepared for combating the lies and scripture spouting that you will encounter. So you should have read up a lot on the various ex-2x2 websites that detail the theological errors that 2x2s believe. Ask the 2x2 ministers to point blank confirm in front of you and your spouse that they believe the Nicene Creed or the Apostles Creed. You want them to confirm that they believe in the Trinity, Grace not works, etc. The key point in breaking free is that you (both) need a place to transition to, a new 'home' where you can have fellowship, worship, feel loved, and be fed. Just dropping 2x2ism and sitting at home is going to make the process extremely difficult, lonely, depressive, etc. That's why if you plan this out properly in advance, the transition can be relatively smooth.
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Post by searcher on Dec 29, 2016 6:23:29 GMT -5
I tried for awhile to attend another church but the conflict it caused at home wasn't worth it. The time wasn't right and neither was my motivation. It didn't work because I was looking for the wrong thing.
When Paul met Christ he was blinded. He spent three days in utter darkness to contemplate the profound depravity of his own sin, the years of hypocrisy of his life, the glory of the risen Christ and His Grace in appearing to him. He didn't go off in a spiritual panic. He waited until Christ told him what to do and only then did the scales fall off his eyes.
When Christ himself became my only truth, only way and only life, the meeting and ministry were put in their proper place and perspective. Neither has anything at all to do with God's perfect gift of salvation through Jesus, except that I am called to love and my brother.
So when I settled down and left it to Jesus, I could go to meeting without my hackles raised. I could love people. Really love them. I keep my part about Jesus, and God's word as it is written, not what people think is written.
Truth is what Christ has done for us, not what people (not even workers) are doing for Christ. We aren't called to go to church, we are called to BE the church. So that's why I still go to meeting for now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 8:36:00 GMT -5
I tried for awhile to attend another church but the conflict it caused at home wasn't worth it. The time wasn't right and neither was my motivation. It didn't work because I was looking for the wrong thing. Sounds like you have a problem in the marriage also - lack of compromise in your spouse. That's something that needs to be addressed. If your spouse is able to influence your church attendance by causing headache for you in the marriage, that's a form of abuse. That's something you both should see a marriage counselor about. Need to get your spouse to open up to the idea of compromise on this issue. And don't push it too far too fast - but you need to at least get some leeway from your spouse on this. At the very least you attending another church one weekday a week for bible study. Seriously, this issue isn't going to solve itself, nor is praying about it going to either, you must have an actual strategy to sort this out. Don't give up so easily. Your spouse has no right to coerce you into which church you attend. Which church you attend should have no bearing on your marriage at all - that's something your spouse is terribly wrong about. There are many 'divided ' homes in 2x2ism. All of those homes started out with conflict in the marriage when one spouse stopped 2x2ism, but with time the 2x2 spouse finally just came to accept reality and decided that 'peace' in the home was worth more. If you do this slowly and strategically as I detailed for you, there is a good chance you spouse will end up joining you. But if you try to do it cold turkey, you will face a lot of negative push back. Remember, this is not about rationality, this is about social psychology. PS: You said your spouse created conflict for you in the marriage because of your church preference. Two can play at that game. You can create conflict if your spouse doesn't compromise. I'm guessing you are female by your profile, and if so there is a lot of leverage you have in this relationship - you can simply stop doing a lot of things and leave him to fend for himself until he starts to realize that compromise is what marriages are built on (instead of his 'my way or the highway). Seriously, you both need to see a marriage therapist so that he can get 'the facts' about how a marriage is supposed to operate - that him creating conflict based on your church preference is abuse. Normal people don't behave like that - only children do. This is a much bigger issue than just the 2x2 thing, your spouse is controlling, and controlling is by definition abuse. If you allow your spouse to use his controlling behavior to 'win', it sets a precedent that he will use over and over again on other issues. You simply cannot allow it.
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Post by searcher on Dec 30, 2016 6:36:10 GMT -5
I agree with your thoughts there, Ross. Convention is a trial simply because I don't hear the deep things of scripture.
We don't go to gospel meetings, and haven't for several years. Mostly because of distance and choosing to rest on Sunday rather than spending it rip snorting home for lunch and then rushing off for another meeting. We don't go to Wed mtg either for same reasons.
So essentially I left a long time ago. I remain so as not to leave my husband behind. Only God can open his eyes so I will be patient and continue to confess Christ alone in meeting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 6:47:02 GMT -5
Just had a nice visit with 2 sister workers. I am so glad for their sacrifice for the Gospel of Christ. What sacrifice are you referring to? Presumably sacrificing all other fields for their chosen field. That is commendable.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 9:54:56 GMT -5
I'm not free just to walk away. My spouse is still very much in it to the point of actually believing that there are some things that have been passed down from the apostles to the present day workers that are not in the bible. Believe me we have had some discussions about this. I go to meeting for now because that is my fellowship not my salvation, and to keep my marriage intact. Some of the older ones in meeting talk about "God's truth and way" (meaning meeting and the ministry), but most do not, keeping their testimony about Christ. I leave the timing of my exit to the Lord. Yip that is how I feel too,I enjoy the fellowship and keep going since my husband would never think of leaving although he agrees with most of my beliefs(that is not the same as the core doctrine's of the fellowship) since it is backed up by the Bible.
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Post by rational on Jan 18, 2017 11:32:05 GMT -5
PS: You said your spouse created conflict for you in the marriage because of your church preference. Two can play at that game. You can create conflict if your spouse doesn't compromise. This ranks with perhaps the worst advice I have ever seen offered. This type of psychological manipulation usually has two goals - to maintain the upper hand, that is, control, or to punish the other person. Withholding seldom leads to a successful solution.
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Post by ellie on Jan 19, 2017 21:23:35 GMT -5
searcher , I assume it's common for one person in a relationship to be ready to leave meetings before the other person. We technically left at the same time. However, I was ahead on the exit trajectory and heading out regardless, and my husband a little further behind. I did not employ any strategies to get my husband out of the meetings whatsoever. All I did was stumble along on doing my own thing while also going to meetings. As a result, my partner became naturally curious about the new things I was doing, such as going on a Buddhist retreat, going on holidays to strange locations and reading unusual books about Christianity. At some stage in my journey he started picking up the odd book and thinking about meetings and questioning things for himself. So, I would say with the benefit of hindsight that a cause for some partners to start thinking more about leaving meetings is the other partner doing non-confrontational little things that might kindle that person’s curiosity and spark their interest into finding out more and investigating things for themselves. The effectiveness of that approach is probably related to how natural it is and how open to new ideas the partner is. My partner is slightly more conventional than I, but becoming less traditional with age. I suspect if a partner is extremely traditional, loves the familiar and dislikes new things they might not be curious very often and almost everything might cause conflict.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 9:09:18 GMT -5
I agree with your thoughts there, Ross. Convention is a trial simply because I don't hear the deep things of scripture. We don't go to gospel meetings, and haven't for several years. Mostly because of distance and choosing to rest on Sunday rather than spending it rip snorting home for lunch and then rushing off for another meeting. We don't go to Wed mtg either for same reasons. So essentially I left a long time ago. I remain so as not to leave my husband behind. Only God can open his eyes so I will be patient and continue to confess Christ alone in meeting. You are thinking that your husband's connection to 2x2ism is a theological one. It's not. It's a psychological connection. Your husband has been psychologically condition by the 2x2 cult to FEAR leaving 2x2ism. God is not going to open your husband's eyes to rational thoughts about 2x2ism. You husband needs to be shown that there is no reason to Fear - and that can only be done by exposure therapy. What I mean is that you use some of the tactics I outlined in previous posts above to slowly wean your husband onto the idea that normal churches are not 'false churches'. Until your husband interacts with the 'false churches', this mental construct of his will not be broken.
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Post by rational on Jan 22, 2017 21:19:20 GMT -5
You are thinking that your husband's connection to 2x2ism is a theological one. It's not. It's a psychological connection. Do you know her husband? Armchair counseling is difficult at best.Theists have been psychologically conditioned by the their religion to FEAR leaving their belief in god behind.God is not going to do squat about anything.As do all theists.Is this a rule?This makes about as much sense as telling a theist they need to ween themselves away from their belief in god. That the belief is in an unproven entity for which there is no logical or material proof. When someone considers a 'false church' is usually one that they do not believe in.
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maria
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Post by maria on Oct 28, 2017 0:34:30 GMT -5
hi everyone. I'm new on here. This is pretty interesting. I was raised going to meetings. Im not sure how the postings work yet so please be patient with me
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Post by emy on Oct 28, 2017 1:09:37 GMT -5
hi everyone. I'm new on here. This is pretty interesting. I was raised going to meetings. Im not sure how the postings work yet so please be patient with me HI, Maria and welcome! is your only experience in this fellowship when you were at home?
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Post by Admin on Oct 28, 2017 11:15:31 GMT -5
Hi maria and welcome! admin
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Post by snow on Oct 28, 2017 16:34:10 GMT -5
hi everyone. I'm new on here. This is pretty interesting. I was raised going to meetings. Im not sure how the postings work yet so please be patient with me Oh good, you found us! Welcome to TMB.
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