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Post by rational on Jan 14, 2016 10:01:58 GMT -5
It is all down to faith and belief my friend. Some folks believe that ther is a God, some others dont; ssome folks believe in the Apostles creed, others dont- each to his own belief. I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead. Now that is what makes people different, justified by faith And belief, or justified by seeing concrete evidence and believing. You are correct, it is a matter of faith and does not need logical nor material support. I got caught up in the vetting argument which, of course, makes it impossible to actually determine whether prayer does or does not work. I do not recall having encountered this before!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 10:25:07 GMT -5
It is all down to faith and belief my friend. Some folks believe that ther is a God, some others dont; ssome folks believe in the Apostles creed, others dont- each to his own belief. I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead. Now that is what makes people different, justified by faith And belief, or justified by seeing concrete evidence and believing. You are correct, it is a matter of faith and does not need logical nor material support. I got caught up in the vetting argument which, of course, makes it impossible to actually determine whether prayer does or does not work. I do not recall having encountered this before! My friend, I appreciate your honesty, your opinions and your right to express your opinions freely; even if I don't always agree with them. That is how it aught to be.
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Post by bubbles on Jan 17, 2016 18:59:11 GMT -5
Prayer does work. I have friends who tell me regularly how their prayers are answered. Unbelief to a believer is like sucking on a bitter lemon. Leaving a nasty after taste. Whereas faith and seeing faith in action is like a desertrain on a parched landscape. l choose faith.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2016 20:54:35 GMT -5
The question being, "Does Prayer Work?"
Smile, well I can only answer for myself. Yes, it certainly has worked for me, repeatedly! Over and over. And every time I look into Katie's gentle kind face, I am reminded of it.
Do I pity those who have not such a relationship with "God?" Absolutely, whether they like it, want it or not.
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Post by rational on Jan 18, 2016 11:39:43 GMT -5
The question being, "Does Prayer Work?"
Smile, well I can only answer for myself. Yes, it certainly has worked for me, repeatedly! Over and over. And every time I look into Katie's gentle kind face, I am reminded of it.
Do I pity those who have not such a relationship with "God?" Absolutely, whether they like it, want it or not. Yet oddly enough any objective testing over the past centuries has only produced evidence to the contrary.
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Post by Yes on Jan 26, 2016 15:30:50 GMT -5
The question being, "Does Prayer Work?"
Smile, well I can only answer for myself. Yes, it certainly has worked for me, repeatedly! Over and over. And every time I look into Katie's gentle kind face, I am reminded of it.
Do I pity those who have not such a relationship with "God?" Absolutely, whether they like it, want it or not. Yet oddly enough any objective testing over the past centuries has only produced evidence to the contrary. Every birth is a miracle, the evidence of yet another perfectly designed DNA! Where it began God only knows.
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Post by rational on Jan 26, 2016 17:02:30 GMT -5
Yet oddly enough any objective testing over the past centuries has only produced evidence to the contrary. Every birth is a miracle, the evidence of yet another perfectly designed DNA! Where it began God only knows. It is clear you have not experienced every birth. About 3% of infants have birth defects These cause about 20% of infant deaths. So perhaps you need to rethink the use of miracle: miracle an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws. Such an event may be attributed to a supernatural being (god or gods), magic, a miracle worker, a saint or a religious leader.The process of birth is well understood. It is easily explained by natural or scientific laws. Perfectly designed DNA? Fortunately it is not perfectly designed and is subject to errors. While the aforementioned birth defects are the result of these errors so is the evolution of life forms. We are, after all, the product of DNA reproduction errors!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 26, 2016 17:04:29 GMT -5
Yet oddly enough any objective testing over the past centuries has only produced evidence to the contrary. Every birth is a miracle, the evidence of yet another perfectly designed DNA!
Where it began God only knows. Geeze! I wonder where GOD is when the "miracle birth" of a perfectly designed DNA child with anencephaly is born? GOD must have been on lunch break! "Anencephaly is a serious birth defect in which a baby is born without parts of the brain and skull. It is a type of neural tube defect (NTD). As the neural tube forms and closes, it helps form the baby’s brain and skull (upper part of the neural tube), spinal cord, and back bones (lower part of the neural tube). Anencephaly happens if the upper part of the neural tube does not close all the way. This often results in a baby being born without the front part of the brain (forebrain) and the thinking and coordinating part of the brain (cerebrum). The remaining parts of the brain are often not covered by bone or skin."
PS: By the way, I saw an Anencephalic child born. This sounds terrible I know, but the top of it's poor little head looked much like an spoiled orange, -yet the face and rest of the body was just fine.
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Post by Guest4 on Jan 26, 2016 17:19:59 GMT -5
Every birth is a miracle, the evidence of yet another perfectly designed DNA!
Where it began God only knows. Geeze! I wonder where GOD is when the "miracle birth" of a perfectly designed DNA child with anencephaly is born? GOD must have been on lunch break! "Anencephaly is a serious birth defect in which a baby is born without parts of the brain and skull. It is a type of neural tube defect (NTD). As the neural tube forms and closes, it helps form the baby’s brain and skull (upper part of the neural tube), spinal cord, and back bones (lower part of the neural tube). Anencephaly happens if the upper part of the neural tube does not close all the way. This often results in a baby being born without the front part of the brain (forebrain) and the thinking and coordinating part of the brain (cerebrum). The remaining parts of the brain are often not covered by bone or skin."
PS: By the way, I saw an Anencephalic child born. This sounds terrible I know, but the top of it's poor little head looked much like an spoiled orange, -yet the face and rest of the body was just fine.
DNA can still be perfectly designed. I marvel at all life no matter the prejudice of mankind
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 26, 2016 18:49:00 GMT -5
Geeze! I wonder where GOD is when the "miracle birth" of a perfectly designed DNA child with anencephaly is born? GOD must have been on lunch break! "Anencephaly is a serious birth defect in which a baby is born without parts of the brain and skull. It is a type of neural tube defect (NTD). As the neural tube forms and closes, it helps form the baby’s brain and skull (upper part of the neural tube), spinal cord, and back bones (lower part of the neural tube). Anencephaly happens if the upper part of the neural tube does not close all the way. This often results in a baby being born without the front part of the brain (forebrain) and the thinking and coordinating part of the brain (cerebrum). The remaining parts of the brain are often not covered by bone or skin."
PS: By the way, I saw an Anencephalic child born. This sounds terrible I know, but the top of it's poor little head looked much like an spoiled orange, -yet the face and rest of the body was just fine.
DNA can still be perfectly designed. I marvel at all life no matter the prejudice of mankind If "DNA can still be perfectly designed," and as you said, "Where it began God only knows,"-why doesn't that all powerful "GOD" do a better job of it?
What do you mean by "the prejudice of mankind?"
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Post by Guest4 on Jan 26, 2016 19:24:14 GMT -5
DNA can still be perfectly designed. I marvel at all life no matter the prejudice of mankind If "DNA can still be perfectly designed," and as you said, "Where it began God only knows,"-why doesn't that all powerful "GOD" do a better job of it?
What do you mean by "the prejudice of mankind?"As with any baby, the wisdom DNA/RNA is coded to produce what the program tells it to produce . The baby is intelligently designed of unknowable prejudice . It is coded by an Intelligent programmer based on the ingredients that would predestinate his traits whether or not we Agree or not agree the DNA is perfectly designed to carry out the exact design that was encoded Obviously there could be man made tampering of the DNA which could cause a different result than the Original code but the coding is still intelligently Coded .
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Post by joanna on Jan 26, 2016 19:45:10 GMT -5
Guest4 "Obviously there could be man made tampering of the DNA which could cause a different result than the Original code but the coding is still intelligently Coded"
Genesis tells us that god regretted he made man so the coding issues were evident from almost word go (that is if you take Genesis to be the literal word or work of god).
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Post by Guest4 on Jan 26, 2016 19:59:47 GMT -5
Guest4 "Obviously there could be man made tampering of the DNA which could cause a different result than the Original code but the coding is still intelligently Coded" Genesis tells us that god regretted he made man so the coding issues were evident from almost word go (that is if you take Genesis to be the literal word or work of god). Yes , and so it was. Yet God did have mercy on His creation and gave them hope in spite of the very thing that enticed Adam Eve , to learn from God how to intelligently learn from past to inherit an eternal blessing
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 26, 2016 20:37:11 GMT -5
If "DNA can still be perfectly designed," and as you said, "Where it began God only knows,"-why doesn't that all powerful "GOD" do a better job of it?
What do you mean by "the prejudice of mankind?" As with any baby, the wisdom DNA/RNA is coded to produce what the program tells it to produce . The baby is intelligently designed of unknowable prejudice .It is coded by an intelligent programmer based on the ingredients that would predestinate his traits whether or not we agree or not agree the DNA is perfectly designed to carry out the exact design that was encodedObviously there could be man made tampering of the DNA which could cause a different result than the original code but the coding is still intelligently coded . I am still having trouble understanding what you mean by unknowable prejudice.
Also I am supposing that you are aware of how the coding of our DNA is that the DNA molecule is packaged into thread-like structures called chromosomes.
Many of birth defects that occur have been found to be in an abnormality in one of those chromosomes.
Down's Syndrome is one. There hasn't been any "man made tampering of the DNA" in the cases of Down's Syndrome!
Any "tampering" would have had to have been done by your "intelligent programmer!"
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 26, 2016 20:45:18 GMT -5
Guest4 "Obviously there could be man made tampering of the DNA which could cause a different result than the Original code but the coding is still intelligently Coded" Genesis tells us that god regretted he made man so the coding issues were evident from almost word go (that is if you take Genesis to be the literal word or work of god). Yes , and so it was. Yet God did have mercy on His creation and gave them hope in spite of the very thing that enticed Adam Eve , to learn from God how to intelligently learn from past to inherit an eternal blessing HEY! If it was "GOD'S" own coding that was the problem, -why would HE need to "have mercy" on THEM?
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Post by xna on Jan 26, 2016 21:19:22 GMT -5
Genesis tells us that god regretted he made man so the coding issues were evident from almost word go (that is if you take Genesis to be the literal word or work of god). Yes & No Genesis 1:31 God was pleased with his creation. Genesis 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
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Post by Guest4 on Jan 26, 2016 21:42:01 GMT -5
Yes , and so it was. Yet God did have mercy on His creation and gave them hope in spite of the very thing that enticed Adam Eve , to learn from God how to intelligently learn from past to inherit an eternal blessing HEY! If it was "GOD'S" own coding that was the problem, -why would HE need to "have mercy" on THEM?It is what it is. Have you had children? You are a child with free will , sometimes you please your parents, sometimes you don't Free will is a great blessing, but it can be disastrous also!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 26, 2016 22:07:58 GMT -5
HEY! If it was "GOD'S" own coding that was the problem, -why would HE need to "have mercy" on THEM? It is what it is. Have you had children? You are a child with free will , sometimes you please your parents, sometimes you don't Free will is a great blessing, but it can be disastrous also! I didn't think that we were talking about free will, were we?
Weren't we talking about DNA coding and that you believe the coding was done by an intelligent programmer? You also seemed to believe, "the DNA is perfectly designed to carry out the exact design that was encoded?"
If that is true, my contention is there is something askew with whoever that intelligent programmer happens to be because of the abnormal coding that leads to Down's Syndrome and many other birth defects.
(I don't believe any of us would believe that Down's Syndrome children were that way because they had "free will" would we?)
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Post by rational on Jan 26, 2016 23:02:43 GMT -5
[It is what it is. Have you had children? You are a child with free will , sometimes you please your parents, sometimes you don't Free will is a great blessing, but it can be disastrous also! I don't believe the child born without a brain had the freewill to make that choice. I am not aware that people born with Down Syndrome were asked if that was good for them. So you think the fetuses planned these defects so they would displease god? I am having trouble following your logic.
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Post by Guest4 on Jan 26, 2016 23:51:12 GMT -5
It is what it is. Have you had children? You are a child with free will , sometimes you please your parents, sometimes you don't Free will is a great blessing, but it can be disastrous also! I didn't think that we were talking about free will, were we?
Weren't we talking about DNA coding and that you believe the coding was done by an intelligent programmer? You also seemed to believe, "the DNA is perfectly designed to carry out the exact design that was encoded?"
If that is true, my contention is there is something askew with whoever that intelligent programmer happens to be because of the abnormal coding that leads to Down's Syndrome and many other birth defects.
(I don't believe any of us would believe that Down's Syndrome children were that way because they had "free will" would we?)
The DNA program is designed to carry out instructions for the creation of new life It was designed to do this!
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Post by Guest4 on Jan 26, 2016 23:57:17 GMT -5
DNA is information on the formation of the brain that allows us to analyze how we got here Obviously some people don't understand this Nevertheless we are designed to think we are intelligent , and for the life of man it must be not programmed into every DNA for reasons we may never know. God knows
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Post by rational on Jan 27, 2016 0:42:08 GMT -5
DNA is information on the formation of the brain that allows us to analyze how we got here So you are saying that there is information contained in the DNA that becomes part of people consciousness? What kind of information? Yes, I am guessing anyone who has spent time studying the brain.
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Post by Commonman on Apr 5, 2016 9:55:03 GMT -5
Even though Jesus never wrote a verse, He is the author by inspiration of all the verses. It is reasonable to believe that He did not desire publicity from unbelievers ..... In that often when He provided proof that He possessed the gift of answering people's prayers , etc. , He admonished them to : "Go and tell NO man. ". Anyone that is looking for proof of God answering prayers , will not likely believe what others experience but they will believe their own personal experience. ?
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Post by Hmmmm on Apr 5, 2016 10:02:09 GMT -5
DNA is information on the formation of the brain that allows us to analyze how we got here So you are saying that there is information contained in the DNA that becomes part of people consciousness? What kind of information? [quote Analytical reasoning might be as instinctual as breathing, even babies want to figure out why their food requirements aren't more predictable..... hmmmmm
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Post by Yes on Apr 5, 2016 20:34:27 GMT -5
To consider that the bible was written by people that not only believed the teachings contained , but laid down their lives to bring this message to the many unbelievers in the world. At the very cost of their own life being persecuted by the religious world and martyred , looking to Jesus as the only answer , and the promise that they could endure unto the end and be reunited with their joy..... and ours for not only a millinium but time without end, without end..... It really is incredible to consider the cost of it all Value equals cost , and it is beyond measure . When the authors are quoted as quoting Jesus teachings, we should consider the eyes they beheld Him with, of great joy and compassion, it is not a wonder that they spoke well on His behalf, and we should not let their compassion for His truth, cause us to question the integrity of Jesus' immeasurable message to the world, in His day, and even in our day! God does answer all our prayers.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2016 22:09:06 GMT -5
To consider that the bible was written by people that not only believed the teachings contained , but laid down their lives to bring this message to the many unbelievers in the world. At the very cost of their own life being persecuted by the religious world and martyred , looking to Jesus as the only answer , and the promise that they could endure unto the end and be reunited with their joy..... and ours for not only a millinium but time without end, without end..... It really is incredible to consider the cost of it all Value equals cost , and it is beyond measure . When the authors are quoted as quoting Jesus teachings, we should consider the eyes they beheld Him with, of great joy and compassion, it is not a wonder that they spoke well on His behalf, and we should not let their compassion for His truth, cause us to question the integrity of Jesus' immeasurable message to the world, in His day, and even in our day! God does answer all our prayers. I don't think you really believe what you just said. If you did, you'd have to consider the virtue of the cost paid by suicide bombers. Only in the market place does cost indicate value.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 5, 2016 23:46:07 GMT -5
To consider that the bible was written by people that not only believed the teachings contained , but laid down their lives to bring this message to the many unbelievers in the world. At the very cost of their own life being persecuted by the religious world and martyred , looking to Jesus as the only answer , and the promise that they could endure unto the end and be reunited with their joy..... and ours for not only a millinium but time without end, without end..... It really is incredible to consider the cost of it all Value equals cost , and it is beyond measure . When the authors are quoted as quoting Jesusteachings, we should consider the eyes they beheld Him with, of great joy and compassion, it is not a wonder that they spoke well on His behalf, and we should not let their compassion for His truth, cause us to question the integrity of Jesus' immeasurable message to the world, in His day, and even in our day! God does answer all our prayers. "To consider that the Quran was written by people that not only believed the teachings contained, but laid down their lives to bring this message to the many unbelievers in the world.
At the very cost of their own life being persecuted by the religious world and martyred , looking to Mohammad as the only answer , and the promise that they could endure unto the end and be reunited with their joy..... and ours for not only a millennium but time without end,without end..... It really is incredible to consider the cost of it all
Value equals cost , and it is beyond measure .
When the authors are quoted as quoting Mohammad's teachings, we should consider the eyes they beheld him with, of great joy and compassion, it is not a wonder that they spoke well on his behalf, and we should not let their compassion for his truth, cause us to question the integrity of Mohammad's immeasurable message
to the world, in His day, and even in our day! Allah does answer all our prayers."
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Post by hmmmm on Apr 6, 2016 2:27:27 GMT -5
[f. To consider that the Quran was written by people that not only believed the teachings contained, but laid down their lives to bring this message to the many unbelievers in the world. At the very cost of their own life being persecuted by the religious world and martyred , looking to Mohammad as the only answer , and the promise that they could endure unto the end and be reunited with their joy..... and ours for not only a millennium but time without end,without end..... It really is incredible to consider the cost of it all Value equals cost , and it is beyond measure . When the authors are quoted as quoting Mohammad's teachings, we should consider the eyes they beheld him with, of great joy and compassion, it is not a wonder that they spoke well on his behalf, and we should not let their compassion for his truth, cause us to question the integrity of Mohammad's immeasurable message to the world, in His day, and even in our day! Allah does answer all our prayers." [/i][/b][/font][/quote][ I believe you are mistaken about what you wrote, IMO .
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