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Post by rational on Jul 2, 2016 7:23:42 GMT -5
The universe is more chaotic than ordered. Maybe your source for answers is proving what You want to believe. Just because we do not understand what the order is, does not mean it does not exist. I generally try to rely on reproducible independently verified observations rather than idle musings and unsupported beliefs.
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Post by Commonman on Jul 2, 2016 12:54:48 GMT -5
Maybe your source for answers is proving what You want to believe. Just because we do not understand what the order is, does not mean it does not exist. I generally try to rely on reproducible independently verified observations rather than idle musings and unsupported beliefs. Hmmmm, same qualification of a prophet.
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Post by Commonman on Jul 2, 2016 18:22:21 GMT -5
Don't think any class of people are held to a higher standard than the Jewish prophets.
To side with those that were recognized as true prophets , would have to be agreement with the highest level of truth.
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Post by rational on Jul 3, 2016 6:44:59 GMT -5
I generally try to rely on reproducible independently verified observations rather than idle musings and unsupported beliefs. Hmmmm, same qualification of a prophet. ;) Except they usually fail. rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies
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Post by Commonman on Jul 3, 2016 8:11:15 GMT -5
Hoo that was an expected response. why do you quote false prophets in trying to contend that true prophets aren't TRUE,. Are you also a false prophet?
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Post by Commonman on Jul 3, 2016 8:48:42 GMT -5
It has always been known that Christ (Jesus) had read and studied and knew what was prophesied about Him.
He also knew who the true prophets were , and quoted them often.
He knew that during their lifetime they were in contact with His Father in prayer and living the truth. It is very nice to know there is a recorded document that specifically addresses the topic of unaddressed prophesies of true prophets.
By fulfilling their prophesies about Him, He became just the final Prophet that they prophesied for and about. Jesus recognized that He had to fulfil these prophesies in order for the law to be complete and it was something that He had an interest in completing, so that His life fit into every true statement .
If you read a will that concerns you, and those that you Love, wouldn't it be logical and true , to fulfil the conditions of the will and validate those that are a part of the will and inheritance...
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Post by rational on Jul 3, 2016 13:19:59 GMT -5
It has always been known that Christ (Jesus) had read and studied and knew what was prophesied about Him. Believed, perhaps, not known. Name three times. Can you back this up? Prediction or postdiction?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 3, 2016 17:48:16 GMT -5
Hoo that was an expected response. why do you quote false prophets in trying to contend that true prophets aren't TRUE,. Are you also a false prophet? Commonman, can you quote any prophet whose prophecies has been been proven to actually came to fruition?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 3, 2016 17:59:42 GMT -5
It has always been known that Christ (Jesus) had read and studied and knew what was prophesied about Him.
What actually happened is that it was the writers of the gospels who had read and studied and knew what was prophesied.
That is why they were so adept at retro-fitting those prophesies into the gospels to make them fit Jesus.
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Post by Commonman on Jul 3, 2016 19:42:43 GMT -5
It has always been known that Christ (Jesus) had read and studied and knew what was prophesied about Him.
What actually happened is that it was the writers of the gospels who had read and studied and knew what was prophesied.
That is why they were so adept at retro-fitting those prophesies into the gospels to make them fit Jesus.
You think someone would die a martyr for the sake of making up a story, you would think that Judas would be one to confess the story you believe ... instead he felt so bad for what he done he took his own life. Others were so committed they became martyrs.
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Post by Commonman on Jul 3, 2016 19:55:28 GMT -5
Hoo that was an expected response. why do you quote false prophets in trying to contend that true prophets aren't TRUE,. Are you also a false prophet? Commonman, can you quote any prophet whose prophecies has been been proven to actually came to fruition?
[b Hoo , where should we start.... Men will be lovers of theirselves Their love will grow cold As it was in the days of Noah, many will just be living and marrying, with no thoughts of creator or His will and plan. son of man will be for 3 days and nights, as Jonah was in the whale 2 will be sleeping, one will be taken and other left. O and don't forget the prophesy for the pure in heart, the peacemakers, those are that hunger and thirst after righteousness. Of course this is just the tip of the iceberg. He was Constantly speaking for His Father, which is what a true prophet of God does. "Speak for". Is to prophesy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 19:57:21 GMT -5
Commonman why don't you create an account and join us?
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Post by Commonman on Jul 3, 2016 20:02:01 GMT -5
It has always been known that Christ (Jesus) had read and studied and knew what was prophesied about Him. Believed, perhaps, not known. Name three times. Can you back this up? Prediction or postdiction? Isaiah wrote about the coming messiah centuries before he came. Things happened just like he said it would.. True prophesy
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Post by Commonman on Jul 3, 2016 20:05:32 GMT -5
Commonman why don't you create an account and join us? could I email you?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 20:31:12 GMT -5
Commonman why don't you create an account and join us? could I email you? sure let me setup a noname account at yahoo.com and i'll tell you that one....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 20:34:57 GMT -5
Commonman why don't you create an account and join us? could I email you? w a n k e r 2 u s AT yahoo.com
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 3, 2016 23:15:12 GMT -5
What actually happened is that it was the writers of the gospels who had read and studied and knew what was prophesied.
That is why they were so adept at retro-fitting those prophesies into the gospels to make them fit Jesus.
You think someone would die a martyr for the sake of making up a story, you would think that Judas would be one to confess the story you believe ...instead he felt so bad for what he done he took his own life. Others were so committed they became martyrs. Y ep, people are often willing to die a martyr all the time for all sorts of reasons + the fact that people can also believe things for which there is not evidence.
Besides, The gospel writers weren't writing a biography of Jesus, or even trying to write an accurate historical document of the times. The words and deeds of Jesus are not simply recounted, as in Greco-Roman biography, in order to present the ethos of a person, his or her essence or manner of life but rather, the concern was to present Jesus as the Messiah and his death and resurrection as part of his messianic calling.
It was more like a proclamation or preaching, rather than any factual account of events.
They were written with that in mind to convince the Jewish people because after all it was the Jewish people who believed in a Messiah, -not for other groups of peoples of the time.
To do that the writers of the gospels did read and study what was prophesied and therefore had to have them being said by Jesus.
When you realize how long after his death the gospels were actually written; from Mark, about 65 after Jesus died through John 90 years after his death, they had plenty of time to work it out.
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Post by Commonman on Jul 4, 2016 3:08:08 GMT -5
You think someone would die a martyr for the sake of making up a story, you would think that Judas would be one to confess the story you believe ...instead he felt so bad for what he done he took his own life. Others were so committed they became martyrs. Y ep, people are often willing to die a martyr all the time for all sorts of reasons + the fact that people can also believe things for which there is not evidence.
Besides, The gospel writers weren't writing a biography of Jesus, or even trying to write an accurate historical document of the times. The words and deeds of Jesus are not simply recounted, as in Greco-Roman biography, in order to present the ethos of a person, his or her essence or manner of life but rather, the concern was to present Jesus as the Messiah and his death and resurrection as part of his messianic calling.
It was more like a proclamation or preaching, rather than any factual account of events.
They were written with that in mind to convince the Jewish people because after all it was the Jewish people who believed in a Messiah, -not for other groups of peoples of the time.
To do that the writers of the gospels did read and study what was prophesied and therefore had to have them being said by Jesus.
When you realize how long after his death the gospels were actually written; from Mark, about 65 after Jesus died through John 90 years after his death, they had plenty of time to work it out.
So according to you most prophetic literature is written by Conspiring atheists? And false prophets? That really is an absurd proposition. The other choice is that true prophets wrote false truths and that is a huge contradiction
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Post by Commonman on Jul 4, 2016 3:24:05 GMT -5
So do you believe the true Jewish messiah hasn't appeared yet?
Well He is coming back, that we all know, and many will think He is delaying His return , and make up fables and myths that have no foundation.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 4, 2016 3:39:16 GMT -5
Y ep, people are often willing to die a martyr all the time for all sorts of reasons + the fact that people can also believe things for which there is not evidence.
Besides, The gospel writers weren't writing a biography of Jesus, or even trying to write an accurate historical document of the times. The words and deeds of Jesus are not simply recounted, as in Greco-Roman biography, in order to present the ethos of a person, his or her essence or manner of life but rather, the concern was to present Jesus as the Messiah and his death and resurrection as part of his messianic calling.
It was more like a proclamation or preaching, rather than any factual account of events.
They were written with that in mind to convince the Jewish people because after all it was the Jewish people who believed in a Messiah, -not for other groups of peoples of the time.
To do that the writers of the gospels did read and study what was prophesied and therefore had to have them being said by Jesus.
When you realize how long after his death the gospels were actually written; from Mark, about 65 after Jesus died through John 90 years after his death, they had plenty of time to work it out.
So according to you most prophetic literature is written by Conspiring atheists? And false prophets? That really is an absurd proposition. The other choice is that true prophets wrote false truths and that is a huge contradiction Why in the world would atheists, conspiring or otherwise, want to write "prophetic literature?"
The problem is that so many times people can see only two "choices" as you just did.
Many things enter into the topic.
For instance, is there even any "true" or "false" prophets? Can anyone even prophesize what the future will be?
We can't tell what is going to happen in the next 24 hours, -let alone hundred of years into the future! No one can!
You are just taking it as fact that there were prophets in the OT!
You are just taking it as a fact that Jesus fulfilled those supposed prophecies!
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Post by rational on Jul 4, 2016 6:43:30 GMT -5
You think someone would die a martyr for the sake of making up a story, you would think that Judas would be one to confess the story you believe ... instead he felt so bad for what he done he took his own life. Others were so committed they became martyrs. You don't really need to see a list of the many people who became nartyrs for their cause to see how silly your claims are, do you? In short, many have become martyrs for their beliefs which which very frequently have little, if any, factual support. Certainly you do not believe Judas, if the story is true, was the only person who committed suicide because of something they had done.
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Post by rational on Jul 4, 2016 7:01:35 GMT -5
So do you believe the true Jewish messiah hasn't appeared yet? I don't believe there will ever be a Jewish messiah just as you you do not believe the as the Incas did, that the conquistadors were the return of Viracocha. That is what the Incas believed as well. And many other cultures. For the Buddhist it was/is Maitreya. Zoroastrians are waiting for Saoshyant. Kaiki will be the answer for Hindus. And you are waiting for Jesus. On Broadway people are Waiting for Godot. You might want to read/re-read Beckett's work in light of the wait for the messiahs. You might identify with Estragon and/or Vladimir!
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Post by Commonman on Jul 4, 2016 10:32:54 GMT -5
So do you believe the true Jewish messiah hasn't appeared yet? I don't believe there will ever be a Jewish messiah just as you you do not believe the as the Incas did, that the conquistadors were the return of Viracocha. That is what the Incas believed as well. And many other cultures. For the Buddhist it was/is Maitreya. Zoroastrians are waiting for Saoshyant. Kaiki will be the answer for Hindus. And you are waiting for Jesus. On Broadway people are Waiting for Godot. You might want to read/re-read Beckett's work in light of the wait for the messiahs. You might identify with Estragon and/or Vladimir! Just because you do not believe the prophesy, doesn't mean it wasn't made . It is a true prophesy , that has already occurred
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Post by rational on Jul 4, 2016 18:14:52 GMT -5
Just because you do not believe the prophesy, doesn't mean it wasn't made . It is a true prophesy , that has already occurred I can appreciate your belief. It is not a matter of me believing in the predictions or not. The question is whether they were actually postdictions and if not whether they predicted anything.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 4, 2016 19:58:08 GMT -5
Just because you do not believe the prophesy, doesn't mean it wasn't made . It is a true prophesy , that has already occurred Of course a prophesy can be made! No one can disputes that they are made.
Question is, do prophecies come true at some future time.
What true prophesy has already occurred according to your statement?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 20:16:24 GMT -5
Just because you do not believe the prophesy, doesn't mean it wasn't made . It is a true prophesy , that has already occurred Of course a prophesy can be made! No one can disputes that they are made.
Question is, do prophecies come true at some future time.
What true prophesy has already occurred according to your statement?israel is a nation again, how could you miss that one?
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Post by rational on Jul 5, 2016 13:52:40 GMT -5
israel is a nation again, how could you miss that one? Or this one: Checklist for one prophecy: - Egypt and everything from the tower of Syene to Ethiopia will be desolate and waste
- God will own the Nile
- No humans will walk through Egypt
- No animals will walk through Egypt
- Nobody will live in Egypt for 40 years
- Egyptians will leave Egypt and be scattered among other nations
- After 40 years of scattering, Egypt will be repopulated by the scattered Egyptians
- Egypt will be a weak kingdom, and will never control "the nations"
Isaiah 19:1-8The Nile will dry up and sea will drain Isaiah 19:18Egyptians will speak the language of Canaan Exodus 23:25-31Israel will extend from the Red Sea to the EuphratesMaybe some of these simply have not come to pass. It would be interesting to have the Canaanite language be revived.
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Post by Commonman on Jul 6, 2016 0:56:49 GMT -5
Ezekiel 29:12-29
Fulfilled
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