|
Post by ellie on Jan 5, 2016 6:54:29 GMT -5
Noah was a preacher of righteousness It seems that his preaching fell on deaf ears . GOD saw that and he saw they were Continually wicked (and He repented that He had made/created them) This is truly just and as His creation was grieving Him exceedingly. Either you believe GOD is the Creator or you do not. It is impossible for us to know everything GOD knows, If we do not believe Him, we will be destroyed just as in the days of Noah. That is what Jesus prophesied, also. right! I think if we are to assume a God caused a massive life destroying flood we need to consider all the newborn babies and all the innocent animal life dead. Would they all have had opportunity to board this ark? My mind boggles! How is a God who would mass murder the innocent just?
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Jan 5, 2016 9:05:07 GMT -5
GOD creates He is fully justified in whatever He does
Do not think that we know more about justice than does our creator!
I can either believe this now, or when it is too late .
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 5, 2016 9:41:43 GMT -5
Noah was a preacher of righteousness It seems that his preaching fell on deaf ears . Where is this in the bible? It seems you just make up things to satisfy what you think should be in the bible. How is killing an infant just?
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 5, 2016 9:53:47 GMT -5
I am inclined to agree with you. If there is more than materialism, I feel this ‘more’ underpins empathy in humans and also (I think) other sentient beings. As always :( I have to consider the possibility that empathy may not be more than a product of evolution. I think I would go with the product of evolution. The simulation theory of empathy and the work being done with mirror neurons adds depth to the idea that empathy is an internal response. The discovery that it is possible to enhance empathy through the magnetic stimulation of the brain also supports the idea that empathy is local to the individual. Unless a case can be made for making some unexplained external force more active when in the presence of a magnetic field...
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 5, 2016 10:01:37 GMT -5
I think if we are to assume a God caused a massive life destroying flood we need to consider all the newborn babies and all the innocent animal life dead. Would they all have had opportunity to board this ark? My mind boggles! How is a God who would mass murder the innocent just? Not if you are trying to impress on the people that god can be extremely cruel and will not hesitate to kill/destroy if his/her wishes are not obeyed. If you are, for example, hijacking an airplane and you cut the throat of the a random hostage, preferably female and/or young, in view of the rest of the hostages they will be much more likely to follow orders. "Do as god says or s/he will kill you and your family" sends a pretty strong message. Myths are told for a reason.
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Jan 5, 2016 10:03:04 GMT -5
II Peter 2:5 Hebrew scholars have access to more on this event, if you google "Noah, preacher of righteousness"
No I did not make this up!
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 5, 2016 10:25:20 GMT -5
GOD creates He is fully justified in whatever He does Do not think that we know more about justice than does our creator! I can either believe this now, or when it is too late . This sounds like a fallback to the statement: "Natural man can never know the mind of god." "Natural man can never know about justice meted by god." You claim it is not possible to know the mind/ways of god when the recorded actions of god reveal a less than just being but in many other instances you seem to be certain of god's mind. I have a feeling this is like adding text to the bible record when it does not support your view of events.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 5, 2016 10:36:33 GMT -5
II Peter 2:5 Hebrew scholars have access to more on this event, if you google "Noah, preacher of righteousness" No I did not make this up! There is no text in the original story that supports your claim. You are not the first to come to the conclusion that an entity that killed men, women, and children was not living up to expectations and speculated on a scenario that would put god in a better light. "Let's make Noah a preacher to went and tried to get people to repent. That will take the curse off the killing because they wouldn't listen." Children's versions often have the people making fun of Noah. And then there is the question of why an omnipotent being would create a population that s/he would have to kill. Didn't s/he know this was going to happen?
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Jan 5, 2016 11:40:05 GMT -5
GOD giveth life ,GOD taketh life. GOD is perfectly just because He is perfect
When humans take a life of another GOD knows and judges . We should never judge. our Creator, ever.
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Jan 5, 2016 11:58:45 GMT -5
Even the great Hebrew King, David plead with GOD, "Let me not fall into the judgement of human , only let Thee judge me"
GOD loves mercy, and wants us to love mercy also.
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Jan 5, 2016 11:59:09 GMT -5
Even the great Hebrew King, David plead with GOD, "Let me not fall into the judgement of human , only let Thee judge me"
GOD loves mercy, and wants us to love mercy also.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 5, 2016 12:37:16 GMT -5
GOD giveth life ,GOD taketh life. GOD is perfectly just because He is perfect Other than you stating this what evidence is there that this is the case? If you are a believer this is probably good advice. God does not stand up to scrutiny.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 13:27:54 GMT -5
I believe the warning was the building of the ark everyone could see it and they had 120 years to repent... Is this stated in the bible or is it speculation? There is certainly no hint from the text that god cared enough to issue a warning of any kind. I think it would be pretty obvious you can't hide and ark in your back yard and it took about 120 years to build before the flood hit...
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 5, 2016 14:44:49 GMT -5
Is this stated in the bible or is it speculation? There is certainly no hint from the text that god cared enough to issue a warning of any kind. I think it would be pretty obvious you can't hide and ark in your back yard and it took about 120 years to build before the flood hit...
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
I could speculate that Noah painted a message on the side of the ark while it was under construction and held informational meetings in the partially finished ark to try to get people to repent. Noah was offering tickets to ride to anyone willing to repent and help clean out the ark during the cruise. Speculation is fun but let's stick to what is written in genesis. Or, if you want to speculate, why not go back to the many older (original) versions of the floor myth for more 'facts'.
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Jan 5, 2016 16:11:22 GMT -5
It is very comforting to know that GOD is willing to forgive us of our ignorance.
|
|
|
Post by joanna on Jan 5, 2016 19:14:57 GMT -5
Do those of you who believe, apply this unquestioning approach in other aspects of your life? It would be inconsistent if you were to research information to confirm say, medical advice; choice of product purchase & so on, as your acceptance of claims made 1,000's of years ago surely proves your willingness to simply believe without inquiry and verification.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 19:27:51 GMT -5
I think it would be pretty obvious you can't hide and ark in your back yard and it took about 120 years to build before the flood hit...
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
I could speculate that Noah painted a message on the side of the ark while it was under construction and held informational meetings in the partially finished ark to try to get people to repent. Noah was offering tickets to ride to anyone willing to repent and help clean out the ark during the cruise. Speculation is fun but let's stick to what is written in genesis. Or, if you want to speculate, why not go back to the many older (original) versions of the floor myth for more 'facts'. are you suggesting noah built the 300+ foot ark and hid it from his neighbors? please...
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 5, 2016 19:59:38 GMT -5
I could speculate that Noah painted a message on the side of the ark while it was under construction and held informational meetings in the partially finished ark to try to get people to repent. Noah was offering tickets to ride to anyone willing to repent and help clean out the ark during the cruise. Speculation is fun but let's stick to what is written in genesis. Or, if you want to speculate, why not go back to the many older (original) versions of the floor myth for more 'facts'. are you suggesting noah built the 300+ foot ark and hid it from his neighbors? please... No, I am saying that any claim that Noah tried to preach to his neighbors to get them to repent or to try to save them or that they had any interest in what he was doing is not supported by anything in Genesis.
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Jan 5, 2016 21:52:31 GMT -5
Some people exist in a very empty world So empty that all they believe in is materialism and by doing so miss the whole Point of life and living. Doing wickedly is not a good testimony for anyone to leave. It seems to me we should all be on GOD's Court in this verdict that He pronounced on wicked people. Just look what human beings do when someone is convicted of doing wickedly!! GOD is merciful in His judgements.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 22:00:17 GMT -5
are you suggesting noah built the 300+ foot ark and hid it from his neighbors? please... No, I am saying that any claim that Noah tried to preach to his neighbors to get them to repent or to try to save them or that they had any interest in what he was doing is not supported by anything in Genesis. people are curious creatures rational they ask questions when seeing strange or new things trust me the people knew what and why he was doing it...
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Jan 5, 2016 22:12:20 GMT -5
I agree. And Noah's actions and life would speak volumes to those around him. He was called a preacher of righteousness in 2Peter 2: and it also says his life condemned the world. That speaks volumes, IMHO
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 6, 2016 1:28:34 GMT -5
No, I am saying that any claim that Noah tried to preach to his neighbors to get them to repent or to try to save them or that they had any interest in what he was doing is not supported by anything in Genesis. people are curious creatures rational they ask questions when seeing strange or new things trust me the people knew what and why he was doing it... That is speculation on your part. Are you certain he told them? People who built fallout shelters in the 1950s didn't spread the word. A rush of people would sink the ark and Noah's family would die. I would speculate that Noah held his cards close to his chest.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 6, 2016 1:30:10 GMT -5
I agree. And Noah's actions and life would speak volumes to those around him. He was called a preacher of righteousness in 2Peter 2: and it also says his life condemned the world. That speaks volumes, IMHO How would the writer of 2Peter have that knowledge? More speculation.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 6, 2016 2:10:20 GMT -5
Some people exist in a very empty world So empty that all they believe in is materialism and by doing so miss the whole Point of life and living. Doing wickedly is not a good testimony for anyone to leave. It seems to me we should all be on GOD's Court in this verdict that He pronounced on wicked people. Just look what human beings do when someone is convicted of doing wickedly!! GOD is merciful in His judgements. Would you tell us just exactly what the "wickedness" was that caused god to destroy everyone except Noah & his family? Also, if it were the "wickedness of man," that caused his to destroy life on the earth, -why did need to kill the animals as well?
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 6, 2016 2:38:16 GMT -5
Some people exist in a very empty world So empty that all they believe in is materialism and by doing so miss the whole Point of life and living. Doing wickedly is not a good testimony for anyone to leave. It seems to me we should all be on GOD's Court in this verdict that He pronounced on wicked people. Just look what human beings do when someone is convicted of doing wickedly!! GOD is merciful in His judgements. Would you tell us just exactly what the "wickedness" was that caused god to destroy everyone except Noah & his family? Also, if it were the "wickedness of man," that caused his to destroy life on the earth, -why did need to kill the animals as well?
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.The wickedness is the lust of the flesh. Flesh driven lust is wrong before God and sinful. Noah's life would have been a judgement but he was also a preacher so with the word he judged them also. As for the verses you've quoted above only God can open your eyes to understand them.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 6, 2016 2:48:33 GMT -5
I agree. And Noah's actions and life would speak volumes to those around him. He was called a preacher of righteousness in 2Peter 2: and it also says his life condemned the world. That speaks volumes, IMHO How would the writer of 2Peter have that knowledge? More speculation. We believe in God, to those who are God's people the bible is the written word if God. Also Jewish people pass on the stories from the old testament from generation to generation. Peter would have known in depth about Noah. But he also had the spirit in his heart and the spirit teaches us all things, opening eyes that are blind, ears that are deaf and gives God's people understanding. Once people open their heart to God, repent, and turn from the desires of this world and their flesh.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 6, 2016 4:14:49 GMT -5
Would you tell us just exactly what the "wickedness" was that caused god to destroy everyone except Noah & his family? Also, if it were the "wickedness of man," that caused his to destroy life on the earth, -why did need to kill the animals as well?
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. The wickedness is the lust of the flesh. Flesh driven lust is wrong before God and sinful. Noah's life would have been a judgement but he was also a preacher so with the word he judged them also. As for the verses you've quoted above only God can open your eyes to understand them. Maryhig, -in other words you cannot give any biblical verses that tell you exactly what was that so-called "wickedness." There certainly are no biblical scripture that states what "wickedness" meant.
You tell me that it is ME who must "open my eyes if I want to understand them. " YOU have decided what the "wickedness" was, apparently because "god" gave you some kind of special interpretation.
Your explanation is the reason that there are 1000's of different denominations of Christianity today. Everyone believes that it is THEY that just "know" what certain verses really mean because it is THEY who "God has opened THEIR eyes to understand" and anyone who believes differently has the wrong interpretation.
That is why there is so much dissension among Christians even here on this board.
PS: You didn't give a reason why all the animals were also destroyed. ( "beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air")
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 6, 2016 4:39:18 GMT -5
The wickedness is the lust of the flesh. Flesh driven lust is wrong before God and sinful. Noah's life would have been a judgement but he was also a preacher so with the word he judged them also. As for the verses you've quoted above only God can open your eyes to understand them. Maryhig, -in other words you cannot give any biblical verses that tell you exactly what was that so-called "wickedness." There certainly are no biblical scripture that states what "wickedness" meant.
You tell me that it is ME who must "open my eyes if I want to understand them. " YOU have decided what the "wickedness" was, apparently because "god" gave you some kind of special interpretation.
Your explanation is the reason that there are 1000's of different denominations of Christianity today. Everyone believes that it is THEY that just "know" what certain verses really mean because it is THEY who "God has opened THEIR eyes to understand" and anyone who believes differently has the wrong interpretation.
That is why there is so much dissension among Christians even here on this board.
PS: You didn't give a reason why all the animals were also destroyed. ( "beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air")I didn't say you must open your eyes, I said God opens our eyes. We can't open our eyes. This is a blessing from God. We must repent and turn from our sinful lusts and deny the world then God will give us the holy spirit who will open our eyes and ears and give us understanding. Teaching us all things, as long as we are willing to lay down our lives. The flesh is lustful and desires the world and all the trappings of it. Once we start to desire the world and being tempted, fall, then Satan enters in. Satan is full of wickedness. And if Satan is in our hearts, so is wickedness this is what we have to fight, and this is what the spirit of God puts to death. God opens the understanding of all his people, to different degrees and through different gifts. Depending on how much of our lives that we are willing to give up. As for the beasts, there are different ways of being destroyed of God. If you want to know what it all means, go to God and ask him.
|
|