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Post by fixit on Sept 1, 2015 0:35:27 GMT -5
Yes, they worshipped Jesus. Ross says we shouldn't do that. No, it's not me. It's God who says you shouldn't worship anyone other than Him ie God. It's not my word you have to obey - it's God's Word. My God loves his son more than anything else, and wouldn't have a problem with sincere people worshipping him. You seem to have a pedantic God.
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Post by maryhig on Sept 1, 2015 1:38:11 GMT -5
Just a thought, when Jesus asked the deciples who do they say he is, Peter answered. You are the Christ, the son of the living God. And Jesus said. Blessed are you Peter, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this to you, but my father which is in heaven.
So why didn't God reveal to Peter that Jesus was Christ, God the son? If that is what Jesus is?
So he is the Christ, the son of the living God, just as the Almighty God revealed to Peter.
There is no trinity, triune, God the son, God the holy spirit, or even Jesus saying I am God. Jesus said without the father I could do nothing, I go to my God and your God.
There is one God, one Christ the son of the living God. As revealed from God the father to Peter, and upon that rock of revelation, Christ is able to build his church!
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Post by Grant on Sept 1, 2015 1:44:52 GMT -5
Extra Biblical literature like convention notes that get passed around.
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Post by maryhig on Sept 1, 2015 2:50:13 GMT -5
Just a thought, when Jesus asked the deciples who did they think he was, Peter answered. You are the Christ, the son of the living God. And Jesus said. Blessed are you Peter, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this to you, but my father which is in heaven. So why didn't God reveal to Peter that Jesus was Christ, God the son? If that is what Jesus is? So he is the Christ, the son of the living God, just as the Almighty God revealed to Peter. There is no trinity, triune, God the son, God the holy spirit, or even Jesus saying I am God. Jesus said without the father I could do nothing, I go to my God and your God. There is one God, one Christ the son of the living God. As revealed from God the father to Peter, and upon that rock of revelation, Christ is able to build his church! So do you worship Jesus? If yes, why? If no, why not? I worship God, because Jesus said in the scriptures to worship God and God alone. I love Jesus with all my heart for what he did for me. But there is only one God. I pray to God, not Jesus, although pray through our lord Jesus. But we we're taught by Jesus to pray to God, and worship God. If I am to worship Christ when I die, then I will leave that in Gods hands. But for now, I follow the teachings of Jesus and pray to my father and his father. And worship my God and his God. Just as he taught us to! I follow the teachings of Jesus Ross, Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. And Jesus clearly said that God was greater than him. John 14 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. God is the God of Jesus also John 20 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. I don't understand how you can't see that God is above Jesus? It clearly says so in the bible, why would Jesus say, I go to my father and your father, my God and your God, if Jesus was God? And why didn't God reveal to Peter that Jesus was the Christ, God the son? That wasn't revealed to Peter. Peter's revelation was that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God!
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Post by maryhig on Sept 1, 2015 3:33:02 GMT -5
I worship God, because Jesus said in the scriptures to worship God and God alone. I love Jesus with all my heart for what he did for me. But there is only one God. I pray to God, not Jesus, although pray through our lord Jesus. But we we're taught by Jesus to pray to God, and worship God. If I am to worship Christ when I die, then I will leave that in Gods hands. But for now, I follow the teachings of Jesus and pray to my father and his father. And worship my God and his God. Just as he taught us to! I follow the teachings of Jesus Ross, Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. And Jesus clearly said that God was greater than him. John 14 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. God is the God of Jesus also John 20 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. I don't understand how you can't see that God is above Jesus? It clearly says so in the bible, why would Jesus say, I go to my father and your father, my God and your God, if Jesus was God? And why didn't God reveal to Peter that Jesus was the Christ, God the son? That wasn't revealed to Peter. Peter's revelation was that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God! Thanks for answering - I appreciate it. The Son clearly submits to the Father - there is order in the relationship. The Son refers to the Father as God. Worthwhile noting that in Hebrews 1:8 the Father also refers to His Son as God. In my Bible (and yours) there are plenty of people who worshipped Jesus and He always accepted their worship. He did this whilst also stating clearly in Matthew 4 that God should only be worshipped. Ross, I don't want to argue with you. I'm following Jesus as I see is right. As I read it in the scriptures. You see it differently. I believe that God will know the sincerity of our hearts. And will know if we are following in spirit and in truth. He is our judge. We could go on and on. And I don't want to do that. We are just creating ammunition for others to fire at us because we all believe in God then debate on our beliefs. I don't believe that any church or religion is the way, Jesus is the way. And if we are following him truly then we are Christ's and we belong to God. Maybe we should be defending our God rather than arguing with each other.
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Post by fixit on Sept 1, 2015 4:03:37 GMT -5
Ross, God's children are those who are led by the spirit of God.
It's pretty simple really.
You remind me of the lawyer who was testing Jesus...
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Post by fixit on Sept 1, 2015 4:07:22 GMT -5
Are you using extra-biblical literature to add to scripture? Where did I say it was Scripture? To arrive at your view of God you have to ignore a lot of Scripture. Are you taking away from Scripture the parts that don't agree with your doctrine? You didn't say it was scripture. Where did I say that you did? There is no religion that interprets the whole bible literally. Religions differ in what they interpret literally.
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Post by fixit on Sept 1, 2015 4:10:01 GMT -5
Do you have the same hang up with those in scripture who "worshipped" the son of God? fixit, Do you believe Jesus the Son of God is God? If you don't believe Jesus is God then why are you bowing your head/heart, to worship and give Him thanks for his life, death, sacrifice on Calvary's Cross every Sunday morning in your fellowship/worship meeting?Your three gods in one is a workaround, but it doesn't really solve anything.
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Post by maryhig on Sept 1, 2015 4:26:07 GMT -5
Ross, I don't want to argue with you. I'm following Jesus as I see is right. As I read it in the scriptures. You see it differently. I believe that God will know the sincerity of our hearts. And will know if we are following in spirit and in truth. He is our judge. We could go on and on. And I don't want to do that. We are just creating ammunition for others to fire at us because we all believe in God then debate on our beliefs. I don't believe that any church or religion is the way, Jesus is the way. And if we are following him truly then we are Christ's and we belong to God. Maybe we should be defending our God rather than arguing with each other. Not arguing....I used to see it your way....when I first (way before the internet and before I had read anything else) worked it through in the Scriptures I was gobsmacked for a while. I think all the Christians on TMB are pretty good at defending our God I've read the scriptures, and I don't need to look at the internet or read anything else, just the bible, it's all in there. And God reveals everything I need to know to my heart. And Jesus has showed and taught me the way to follow!
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Sept 1, 2015 7:33:52 GMT -5
This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee...
I appreciated our church's recent convention in McCordsville, Indiana. One of our ministers, Barry Barkley, emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become a human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament.
If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?
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hberry
Senior Member
Posts: 743
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Post by hberry on Sept 1, 2015 12:51:21 GMT -5
This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee... I appreciated our church's recent convention in McCordsville, Indiana. One of our ministers, Barry Barkley, emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become a human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament.If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"? That is interesting. Kudos to Barry B for being straightforward in preaching what he believes. Glad the person who heard and posted this appreciated the message.
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Post by Grant on Sept 1, 2015 12:58:39 GMT -5
Shows the different beliefs of the workers. Do they even know what they believe themselves. We see outspoken against God the Son terms and then when Elizabeth shows that some workers do believe it then there's some baseless accusation. Read the thread and see for yourself the contradictory beliefs.
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Post by matisse on Sept 1, 2015 13:30:25 GMT -5
If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"? Oh snap! ;)
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Post by matisse on Sept 1, 2015 16:06:01 GMT -5
This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee... I appreciated our church's recent convention in McCordsville, Indiana. One of our ministers, Barry Barkley, emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become a human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament.If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"? Did he not also speak of God the Holy Spirit and God the triune God also? It would be interesting to hear an account of what Barry spoke from someone else beside this anonymous 2nd or 3rd hand report. I have never heard a worker use other than the correct and Biblical 'Son of God' Why don't you give him a call? If you don't have his number, I expect someone here can get it for you.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Sept 1, 2015 17:56:20 GMT -5
This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee... I appreciated our church's recent convention in McCordsville, Indiana. One of our ministers, Barry Barkley, emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become a human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament.If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"? Heretics! Wow... Bary Barkley is the overseer of the overseers in the east coast. He is NOT a rookie worker!I only have it from one source so far, but the response from others in the F&W to this quote seems to have been very positive. It would be good to have it confirmed by other sources. Maybe they'll let you out of the heretic camp soon NathanB!
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Sept 1, 2015 18:12:40 GMT -5
Another source in response to the above quote: "We heard so wonderfully at Hotchkiss convention about this and the many roles of Christ."
I predict this language may become more commonplace, and then it will be said "we've always taught this!".
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Sept 1, 2015 18:26:25 GMT -5
Another source in response to the above quote: "We heard so wonderfully at Hotchkiss convention about this and the many roles of Christ." I predict this language may become more commonplace, and then it will be said "we've always taught this!". Elizabeth... This is getting better all the time. I have a long list of different names, titles, roles of Christ on my message board.2x2friendsworkers.proboards.com/board/12/word-god-refer-father-yeshuaMaybe they've been delving into your files, NathanB! But I'm sure you don't mind not getting credit.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Sept 1, 2015 18:36:31 GMT -5
Yes, if Barry B preached it in NSW the Head Worker would take him aside and rebuke him. If they can have a worldwide meeting on divorce years ago, it might be a little more important to have a worldwide meeting on who Jesus is so they can sort it out amongst themselves. Christians have had been clear on it since Christ came to earth. Ross You cannot help yourself can you!!!!! What possesses you that youderide, mock, have a crack at our church so? You really have a problem with Clyde McKay, your numerous posts against a man who is not here to explain himself makes mockery of your claims to having life in Christ. Yes here you go again!!!! O ur church, that includes your mother, your father who lived, help to and died as a member of our church. You understandably love and respect them.....but then this??? cognitive dissonance? emotional? spiritual? dissonance? or plain simple shooting yourself in the foot? Review, I thought that you of all people would welcome a worldwide meeting so this issue can be sorted out. Wouldn't that be a help to you, rather than all you workers contradicting each other? Despite many admonitions to you by both believers and non-believers on this forum that it is very poor form to keep bringing family members into this, you persist. Please learn some manners.
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Post by Grant on Sept 1, 2015 18:41:39 GMT -5
Review must have arrived on his home soil with too much time on his hands. He claims to be a worker. If that's how workers behave then bobs my uncle and I did a good thing leaving them behind. Harassing Ross and bringing his family into it is shows the disturbing spirit of some. Have workers got this low.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Sept 1, 2015 19:01:05 GMT -5
Nathan you probably would be advised to not 'count your chickens before they hatch' about Barry B using the term 'God the Son' ....and using it regularly and repeatedly until you have a very much more reliable source than what has been presently stated in this thread! Your regular accusations and insinuations against me of falsehood with no evidence are otherwise known as 'slander', Review. I've advise you to look up a few Bible passages on the topic. "Using it regularly and repeatedly" are your words, not mine, and come from nowhere at this stage except from you. Seems the story has already gotten out of hand by ... well, your hand, actually.
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007
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Post by 007 on Sept 1, 2015 19:01:15 GMT -5
Sometimes a believer asks of the Father in The Son's Name which is not, has not been, and never will be, the English name "Jesus." Other times they ask for the Lord's presence Himself to instruct and guide, and He teaches them of the Word Made Flesh, does He not? In the fellowship people constantly sing/sang prayers to the Holy Spirit. Guess they must be/have been in error... ? Another question to ask workers?
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Sept 1, 2015 19:31:18 GMT -5
Elizabeth It is as simple as this! You despise, deride and dismiss our church as a cult. That conclusion is a result of your seemingly tormented mind and thinking. Experts in cults smile and roll their eyes at it! But anyway here is what you have done, you have grasped at a straw, hope to create some mischief. 1) When the F&Ws stop despising, deriding and dismissing other churches and Christians I'll be the first to rejoice and remove the cult label. 2) Create mischief? I was hoping to bring us into greater unity and understanding ( which could indeed lead to the fulfillment of Point 1), not further separation. 3) Apparently greater mutual understanding and unity is far from your motives and desires. Again refer back to 1).
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Post by fred on Sept 1, 2015 19:58:50 GMT -5
And then there is poor old Thomas, of little faith mixed with unbelief. When he finally turned the corner I'm sure the disciples and Jesus rushed to correct him, or did they just chuckle behind their hands ..... "Oh well, you know what he has been like"?
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Sept 1, 2015 20:25:36 GMT -5
:DAnd that, dear friends, is the perfect expression of irony.
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Post by fixit on Sept 1, 2015 20:41:00 GMT -5
NOT all Christians... They have both camps.... the Pro-Godhead/Trinity and Anti-Trinity/Arians groups among many churches, just like among the friends and workers. Some have an understanding more on the humanity of Jesus than his divine/Godhead side, others see Jesus is both God and Man. Nate - there are almost none today. JW's, Christadelphians, some F&W's and a couple of small groups here and there who only get some air-time because they oppose the doctrine of the Trinity. You are right re Arius who lived AD250 - 336. He did create a reasonable amount of controversy at the time when he challenged the existing and broadly accepted thinking about Jesus. ...broadly accepted thinking about Jesus???
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Post by fixit on Sept 1, 2015 21:57:45 GMT -5
CARM is the website of a religious bigot.
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Post by fixit on Sept 1, 2015 22:04:12 GMT -5
...broadly accepted thinking about Jesus??? I was never allowed to quote Wikipedia as source material at uni not are our kids allowed to quote it at school or uni. I think you will find that the major dissent came from the city region and area where Arius lived but I may be wrong. Arius was particularly controversial as I understand because to Him Christ was a created being. Not sure whether you believe this or not. The Roman empire was Arian under Constantius the Second and Valens in the fourth century. www.amazon.com/When-Jesus-Became-God-Christianity/dp/0156013150
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Post by whyisitso on Sept 1, 2015 22:16:24 GMT -5
Ross I suggest you are revealing how childish & senseless you are with such posts? But if you wish, keep making them; readers are getting your measure. I think this is another one of those irony things.... The more you post Review, the more we realise who you really are. Keep on posting, please, it really helps us to get to know you Why don't you tell us about your family? You've mentioned them here now. I'm guessing that means they're up for discussion now. Your parents? Do they see you as we do? Do you have any siblings?
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