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LL
Jun 23, 2015 0:28:55 GMT -5
Post by emy on Jun 23, 2015 0:28:55 GMT -5
I'm sorry this statement upset you. As I read it, I think several posters have misunderstood it. (Couldn't be me, could it?  ) Let me re-write it with certain emphasis: " IF the only remaining difference between them and us is the ministry and meeting in a home, how can we defend our faith?” I took this to mean that unless there was more that separates us from an ungodly world (scripturally sound), then our faith (I would see this as meaning the fellowship - maybe not too accurate use of a word?) doesn't have much left to defend. To me it meant that the form of ministry and worship helps develop a strong relationship with God, but it's important that there is MORE than a form. When you visited convention, did you think all you saw and heard rested ONLY on form? edit: What I put in italics at the end seems likely to be me reading between the lines.  _______________________________________________________________________ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? When you visited convention, did you think all you saw and heard rested ONLY on form? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Emy, emy, emy, you are kidding, right? Read this sentence: "I walked away with a renewed conviction that these were indeed a group of people set apart in some meaningful way from most of the people I interact with from day to day." What does that sentence say to you? Does that sound like an accusation that all I saw and heard rested ONLY on form? Come on! " . . . a group of people set apart in some meaningful way . . . " could not speak more highly, specifically or directly of a people with a faith and conviction of substance.
It was a rather disingenuous way of reminding you of what you saw and heard. I understood clearly that you saw more than form, thus we fellowship people don't lack in having beliefs to defend.You open your post with the observation that you are "sorry that this statement upset me." I appreciate your concern but the strange thing is that it "frightens me that this statement does not upset you." What does it mean: "that unless there was more that separates us from an ungodly world, then our faith doesn't have much left to defend". No one in the F&W community can possibly hold this belief. (I know, I am getting emotional, but I find this whole conversation surreal). Has the faith, belief, confidence and convictions of the F&W Fellowship truly been eroded to the point that this statement holds any credence. Oh please tell me I am misunderstanding both your intent and the sentence that you have written. When I professed, it was my faith that separated me from an "ungodly world", not the other way around. And I can assure you (because I still carry much of that faith with me), there was never a question in my mind nor in the mind of those with whom I had fellowship what needed to be defended and why. Do you not see us defending things here on the TMB that have even greater depth than the ministry and home church? Perhaps the world and the F&W Fellowship have changed to the point that one can no longer differentiate and must cast about for causes to defend. Oh how I hope this is but my misunderstanding. I'm not sure I know what you are saying with 'differentiate' and 'causes.'
I decided if I left this til morning, I'd completely forget what I said. Maybe should have done it that way! My first attempt was better, IMO. |
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Post by reallyandtruly on Jun 23, 2015 1:45:48 GMT -5
I think what Bert is trying to say is that if all the sermons, messages and letters of workers were compiled and published, it would take a great deal of searching to find them preaching the ministry. How many sermons on "the ministry" have been published on the websites and in books? Like Bert, I think if workers' words were taken as a whole, the conclusion would be different. Especially if they were not out of context. It's not hard to find some 'sermons' to support your view when there has already been editing of the whole and possibly editing of individual sermons/letters. Emy what do you hear when you sit in convention ? So are you saying the sermons I have posted about have all been edited ? It is amazing what you can hear if you are listening with a one track mind. Roselyn you are wanting to find a particular message in the message.If you take sentences in isolation or out of context you certainly will be able to do this. I could listen to the same sermon and maybe hear a different message. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 2:28:09 GMT -5
[quote author=" NathanB" I have been around the blocks a few times in different churches myself before I went in the work. My companions attended quite a few churches when I was in the work. I have talked to hundreds and thousands Christians after I left the work. I will say this, the 2x2 is VERY special and unique in their own ways, 2x2 ministry and Sunday morning worship where the believers and workers can participate/sharing their testimonies, partake the emblems.
The 2x2 church are there to strengthen our belief in God.... Help us to have a better understand the Way and teaching of Jesus New Testament as we read in the gospel and the book of Acts of apostles. If you find peace, happiness somewhere else then that is your choice. For myself, I am very happy and content with the 2x2s. I feel like a butterfly from all the journey I have been through in my life.
[/quote] Nathan,I agree with you 2x2 are unique,very unique, we know, we have been there. All we say is don't push the line, "We are the only way, the right way". This was a good sales pitch in the early days, it put bums on seats, including our Parents. However we have had a wonderful life experience, meeting real Christians. The mainstream Churches are doing the same job. Please do not throw scripture at me, as the Bible is a very diverse book, you can find a verse to suit any situation. Glad you feel like a butterfly, don't land on my Wife's pot plants, or you will be hit with a burst of insect spray. |
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Post by maryhig on Jun 23, 2015 2:58:36 GMT -5
Hiya! I also believe we're born innocent, but we are born into sinful flesh. I was looking at my grandson yesterday he's one yr old, and I told him "no" quite sternly because he was about to get hurt and he got upset. But straight away he forgot and threw his arms around me when I picked him up. And I thought children when young are very forgiving. And God wants us innocent like that. If we have a fall, or someone hurts us then quickly forgive and forget and don't hold it like we do. That's why God wants us to become like little children, because our hearts should be innocent. Now as for the suffering, I dont drive, and the day before yesterday I was watching my husband driving and everything just flowed naturally. And I said that I wished I could do drive that easily, but when I try, I find it hard. He told me, that its hard at first, but when you've got it right, you do it without even thinking about it. Just like I can type, he said you type without even looking where your fingers are going next yet you do it with ease. But I would struggle. And I saw this in God. At first its hard, and we start having a conscience and the spirit is warring against the flesh and at first we find this contrary to our will but as we keep fighting it gets easier. Until in the end we don't even think about the things we were doing wrong, and it comes natural not to do them and we are free! We are then guided by the spirit. But at first its hard, like giving birth to a child. It's painful and we suffer, but once the child is born, we forget all that pain and we're just glad to see the child. This is like the new birth. At first we fight, but once the we are guided by the spirit and not the flesh then this is being born again. And we become a new person with Christ living through us. When we see understanding and wisdom in the hearts of someone young in God it's like hearing the first cry of the living child just born. And its amazing to see the birth. And you know it's real, because you've been through it, and you know what you are hearing that it is real and from God! And you rejoice with them. But it's not just the giving up and then it's all easy after that, we still have Satan with us. Tempting us and trying to deceive us. Trying to pull is back into what we have left behind. Making our life hard, tempting us with what we enjoyed through others, putting wrong thoughts in our mind, and this happens daily, and will happen until the day we die, but Jesus has overcome the world and Christ in the heart can give us the strength to overcome too, if we keep our faith in God! It's very hard to explain what I mean in writing, but I hope I have written it so you can understand me, thanks for taking the time to read it  I don't agree with forcing predjuces and opinions down children's throats either but I do believe it important to teach them about God and Jesus. My children have been brought up in the teachings of Jesus yes, but, they have to make there own mind up. I don't believe in forcing anyone to do anything. It has to be freewill. A sacrifice isn't a sacrifice of its forced on you, how can I sacrifice my life because of someone else's will? I would see it as a sin against God to shove my opinions down my children's throats. But I do teach them what is right and wrong before God then they must decide. I don't know what I've written in my post that would make you think this? Can you tell me please I think Jesus sometimes did say people were unworthy, especially Gods people who had gone wrong. And people who put their own lives before God. Matt 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. And I think calling people white washed sepulchres full of dead men's bones is saying certain people are not that clean inside! Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Jesus was full of love and compassion, for those who didn't know God, and those who truly loved God but he didn't hesitate to put right those who say they believe in God, yet live contrary to how God says we should live if we belong to him. Thus showing the wrong example. Yes I agree about the outward actions and love being a reflection of what's in the heart. I've always said that the workings of God within will show in our lives without! That's how you know if a person belongs to God. They will be living it. As for outward appearance, the reason that I stopped wearing makeup and dyeing my hair etc. Is because I personally had a conscience and was vain. So I had to stop, God made me as I am, so I feel I shouldn't have to put on a false face. It should be Gods love through me that is more important, than what I look like. As for Paul, anyone of God, would know that Paul's teachings are of God. Because Christ shines through him and you can hear the holy spirit in his words! I would never put Paul's teachings down. I can see he loved God and Christ! |
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Post by fred on Jun 23, 2015 3:23:13 GMT -5
My biggest beef with the workers preaching is the lack of clear exposition - I didn't realise this until I listened to a couple of online sermons by well known evangelists. I found it a wonderful change from the usual.
Much of worker teaching is done by insinuation allowing the listener to infer things without actually saying them. This is why Bert is correct in saying "show me where someone actually said this".
Also much teaching is done using allegory, which while having its place, can result in a particular slant. Sometimes Jesus' parables are stretched far beyond the intended meaning which can also result in a particular slant.
It's not a matter of listening with a one track mind, but rather a matter of running what you hear past entire bible teachings.
The old chestnut of being saved by grace is often derided by some posters, yet when others suggest that it must then be by works, there are protestations that the workers do not preach by works. But they do, not in explicit terms (mostly), but by implication.
As another poster succinctly framed worker teaching, there needs to be a balance, grace+works.
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LL
Jun 23, 2015 7:37:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by What Hat on Jun 23, 2015 7:37:04 GMT -5
I'm sorry this statement upset you. As I read it, I think several posters have misunderstood it. (Couldn't be me, could it? ) Let me re-write it with certain emphasis: " IF the only remaining difference between them and us is the ministry and meeting in a home, how can we defend our faith?” I took this to mean that unless there was more that separates us from an ungodly world (scripturally sound), then our faith (I would see this as meaning the fellowship - maybe not too accurate use of a word?) doesn't have much left to defend. To me it meant that the form of ministry and worship helps develop a strong relationship with God, but it's important that there is MORE than a form. When you visited convention, did you think all you saw and heard rested ONLY on form? edit: What I put in italics at the end seems likely to be me reading between the lines. I didn't get that initially but of course you're right. Now re-reading yknot's second long post which I didn't understand at first, he got that too. His point of contention with LL is that he DOES see a genuine representation of faith among the friends (as do I), not that LL doesn't but it is something that is causing LL great concern. Let me know if I have that wrong. Actually the first paragraph didn't make much sense to me but now the entire sermon makes more sense and a bit more consistent with my mental image of things. |
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LL
Jun 23, 2015 9:48:31 GMT -5
Post by What Hat on Jun 23, 2015 9:48:31 GMT -5
First of all, the ones you linked have been "chosen" (edited from the whole group of workers' sermons/letters) and sometimes parts of them have been selected to publish. Emy do you know this for a fact ? Have you spoken to the person that put all the notes together ? Why should they be different? We all process information in this manner. |
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Post by What Hat on Jun 23, 2015 9:55:54 GMT -5
To no one in particular.
If LL and others argue that faith rests upon more than just the form of things, that is, the church in the home and ministry without a home, then why the insistence that any other way of worship is false.
Surely there can be a middle view, i.e. that the sincere belief of the friends is that their method of worship follows the pattern set in the New Testament, but that they respect others who pursue the essential issues of faith regardless of their form of worship, and that there is at least a degree of mutuality with other Christians and even with those in other religions.
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LL
Jun 23, 2015 10:02:56 GMT -5
hberry likes this
Post by What Hat on Jun 23, 2015 10:02:56 GMT -5
I think what throws the reader off is this statement in LL's preamble: "although they serve God in a way contrary to the scriptures". That appears to refer to their form of worship. But with respect to Emy's clarification and re-reading the sermon, it can only refer to their general way of life. (And I will need to read it once more yet, especially now that I see more value in it).
I've underlined the proverbial "they" for clarity in linking the sentences.
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LL
Jun 23, 2015 11:03:49 GMT -5
Post by emy on Jun 23, 2015 11:03:49 GMT -5
An addition to last night's attempt:
Statement from Yknot:
No, it isn't eroded. In fact faith and conviction in things IN ADDITION TO the ministry and home church has likely increased.
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hberry
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LL
Jun 23, 2015 11:30:41 GMT -5
Post by hberry on Jun 23, 2015 11:30:41 GMT -5
I think what throws the reader off is this statement in LL's preamble: "although they serve God in a way contrary to the scriptures". That appears to refer to their form of worship. But with respect to Emy's clarification and re-reading the sermon, it can only refer to their general way of life. (And I will need to read it once more yet, especially now that I see more value in it). I've underlined the proverbial "they" for clarity in linking the sentences. "..I have heard of some cases of those who have been professing, mostly 3rd and 4th or even 5th generation of faithful families, who seem to be influenced by the age of tolerance in which we live, and the accepted attitude that there are good people in the churches who are sincere, and perhaps they can be saved also, although they serve God in a way contrary to the scriptures. Accommodating one´s way of life and activities until there is little difference, results in no rejection, no reproach, in being accepted. This undermines our faith, hides the light our life should be for others and if the only remaining difference between them and us is the ministry and meeting in a home, how can we defend our faith? " I concatenated what I saw as two related ideas. First, that "even" 5th generation faithful families seem to be influenced by the idea that there are possibly saved people in other churches--although "these folks serve God in a way contrary to scriptures"; and two, accommodating "one's way of life" to this idea undermines one's faith and leaves no difference in serving God except the form. Believing others are saved would eliminate rejection and reproach--and it might make defending your faith difficult. My thoughts were influenced on this by the number of friends who say this idea is gaining ground in the fellowship, but whether that's true or not, I don't know. Now I don't know. Keep re-reading WhatHat and keep us posted! |
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Post by snow on Jun 23, 2015 11:45:45 GMT -5
Glad you feel like a butterfly, don't land on my Wife's pot plants, or you will be hit with a burst of insect spray. umm your wife grows pot! Sorry couldn't resist... |
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Post by snow on Jun 23, 2015 11:49:19 GMT -5
Hiya! I also believe we're born innocent, but we are born into sinful flesh. I was looking at my grandson yesterday he's one yr old, and I told him "no" quite sternly because he was about to get hurt and he got upset. But straight away he forgot and threw his arms around me when I picked him up. And I thought children when young are very forgiving. And God wants us innocent like that. If we have a fall, or someone hurts us then quickly forgive and forget and don't hold it like we do. That's why God wants us to become like little children, because our hearts should be innocent. Now as for the suffering, I dont drive, and the day before yesterday I was watching my husband driving and everything just flowed naturally. And I said that I wished I could do drive that easily, but when I try, I find it hard. He told me, that its hard at first, but when you've got it right, you do it without even thinking about it. Just like I can type, he said you type without even looking where your fingers are going next yet you do it with ease. But I would struggle. And I saw this in God. At first its hard, and we start having a conscience and the spirit is warring against the flesh and at first we find this contrary to our will but as we keep fighting it gets easier. Until in the end we don't even think about the things we were doing wrong, and it comes natural not to do them and we are free! We are then guided by the spirit. But at first its hard, like giving birth to a child. It's painful and we suffer, but once the child is born, we forget all that pain and we're just glad to see the child. This is like the new birth. At first we fight, but once the we are guided by the spirit and not the flesh then this is being born again. And we become a new person with Christ living through us. When we see understanding and wisdom in the hearts of someone young in God it's like hearing the first cry of the living child just born. And its amazing to see the birth. And you know it's real, because you've been through it, and you know what you are hearing that it is real and from God! And you rejoice with them. But it's not just the giving up and then it's all easy after that, we still have Satan with us. Tempting us and trying to deceive us. Trying to pull is back into what we have left behind. Making our life hard, tempting us with what we enjoyed through others, putting wrong thoughts in our mind, and this happens daily, and will happen until the day we die, but Jesus has overcome the world and Christ in the heart can give us the strength to overcome too, if we keep our faith in God! It's very hard to explain what I mean in writing, but I hope I have written it so you can understand me, thanks for taking the time to read it I don't agree with forcing predjuces and opinions down children's throats either but I do believe it important to teach them about God and Jesus. My children have been brought up in the teachings of Jesus yes, but, they have to make there own mind up. I don't believe in forcing anyone to do anything. It has to be freewill. A sacrifice isn't a sacrifice of its forced on you, how can I sacrifice my life because of someone else's will? I would see it as a sin against God to shove my opinions down my children's throats. But I do teach them what is right and wrong before God then they must decide. I don't know what I've written in my post that would make you think this? Can you tell me please I think Jesus sometimes did say people were unworthy, especially Gods people who had gone wrong. And people who put their own lives before God. Matt 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. And I think calling people white washed sepulchres full of dead men's bones is saying certain people are not that clean inside! Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Jesus was full of love and compassion, for those who didn't know God, and those who truly loved God but he didn't hesitate to put right those who say they believe in God, yet live contrary to how God says we should live if we belong to him. Thus showing the wrong example. Yes I agree about the outward actions and love being a reflection of what's in the heart. I've always said that the workings of God within will show in our lives without! That's how you know if a person belongs to God. They will be living it. As for outward appearance, the reason that I stopped wearing makeup and dyeing my hair etc. Is because I personally had a conscience and was vain. So I had to stop, God made me as I am, so I feel I shouldn't have to put on a false face. It should be Gods love through me that is more important, than what I look like. As for Paul, anyone of God, would know that Paul's teachings are of God. Because Christ shines through him and you can hear the holy spirit in his words! I would never put Paul's teachings down. I can see he loved God and Christ! There is a new age thought that goes like this. What you focus on becomes your reality. You seem to be very focused on being a sinner and it is a daily struggle for you. Maybe it would be better to not be so focused on how 'bad' you are and focus more on how wonderful you are? You are wonderful Maryhig and you have a good heart, but it seems as though you wish to downplay that aspect of yourself and have other's see you as a pitiful sinner. I don't see you that way. You're human and I'm sure you make mistakes as we all do, but that doesn't make you a 'sinner' in my estimation anyway. |
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Post by maryhig on Jun 23, 2015 14:37:33 GMT -5
I don't agree with forcing predjuces and opinions down children's throats either but I do believe it important to teach them about God and Jesus. My children have been brought up in the teachings of Jesus yes, but, they have to make there own mind up. I don't believe in forcing anyone to do anything. It has to be freewill. A sacrifice isn't a sacrifice of its forced on you, how can I sacrifice my life because of someone else's will? I would see it as a sin against God to shove my opinions down my children's throats. But I do teach them what is right and wrong before God then they must decide. I don't know what I've written in my post that would make you think this? Can you tell me please I think Jesus sometimes did say people were unworthy, especially Gods people who had gone wrong. And people who put their own lives before God. Matt 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. And I think calling people white washed sepulchres full of dead men's bones is saying certain people are not that clean inside! Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Jesus was full of love and compassion, for those who didn't know God, and those who truly loved God but he didn't hesitate to put right those who say they believe in God, yet live contrary to how God says we should live if we belong to him. Thus showing the wrong example. Yes I agree about the outward actions and love being a reflection of what's in the heart. I've always said that the workings of God within will show in our lives without! That's how you know if a person belongs to God. They will be living it. As for outward appearance, the reason that I stopped wearing makeup and dyeing my hair etc. Is because I personally had a conscience and was vain. So I had to stop, God made me as I am, so I feel I shouldn't have to put on a false face. It should be Gods love through me that is more important, than what I look like. As for Paul, anyone of God, would know that Paul's teachings are of God. Because Christ shines through him and you can hear the holy spirit in his words! I would never put Paul's teachings down. I can see he loved God and Christ! There is a new age thought that goes like this. What you focus on becomes your reality. You seem to be very focused on being a sinner and it is a daily struggle for you. Maybe it would be better to not be so focused on how 'bad' you are and focus more on how wonderful you are? You are wonderful Maryhig and you have a good heart, but it seems as though you wish to downplay that aspect of yourself and have other's see you as a pitiful sinner. I don't see you that way. You're human and I'm sure you make mistakes as we all do, but that doesn't make you a 'sinner' in my estimation anyway. Oh no, a pitiful sinner! No crikey I don't want you to think that! next you'll think I'm whipping myself like those people do.  No I just don't want people to think I'm self righteous, because I don't feel like that at all. And sometimes when people talk about God, they unwittingly make themselves look holier than thou. And I just want people to know I'm not perfect, even though I believe in God, I know I sin too. So I can't say anything about another human being, because I'm no better than the next person. I don't agree with calling people unsaved etc. I don't understand all that because we don't know who is and who isn't saved. And I am just as sinful as the next person so I can't say anything about anyone! That is what I mean when I say I'm a sinner! I'm hoping that if I get to heaven, that I see everyone here who I might never meet in real life. I was actually thinking about this in God the other day. I thought if we were all in a room, I wouldn't know any of you. Until you started speaking, then I'd know you by your voices, by what you were saying in conversation. And I thought that it is like that in God, you can't tell a person has the holy spirit within their hearts until they open their mouths and you hear him through the voice. And sometimes people are quick to judge, yet the people we judge could be of God (but we shouldn't judge regardless). I sometimes wonder what people must have thought when they saw my uncle living rough. I hope people showed him compassion and mercy because he did it for the love of God in his heart. Because he wanted to give the blessing he had to others. It's so important not to judge another's heart, because God could have different ideas. Whatever they believe in! |
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LL
Jun 23, 2015 15:47:43 GMT -5
maryhig likes this
Post by snow on Jun 23, 2015 15:47:43 GMT -5
There is a new age thought that goes like this. What you focus on becomes your reality. You seem to be very focused on being a sinner and it is a daily struggle for you. Maybe it would be better to not be so focused on how 'bad' you are and focus more on how wonderful you are? You are wonderful Maryhig and you have a good heart, but it seems as though you wish to downplay that aspect of yourself and have other's see you as a pitiful sinner. I don't see you that way. You're human and I'm sure you make mistakes as we all do, but that doesn't make you a 'sinner' in my estimation anyway. Oh no, a pitiful sinner! No crikey I don't want you to think that! next you'll think I'm whipping myself like those people do. No I just don't want people to think I'm self righteous, because I don't feel like that at all. And sometimes when people talk about God, they unwittingly make themselves look holier than thou. And I just want people to know I'm not perfect, even though I believe in God, I know I sin too. So I can't say anything about another human being, because I'm no better than the next person. I don't agree with calling people unsaved etc. I don't understand all that because we don't know who is and who isn't saved. And I am just as sinful as the next person so I can't say anything about anyone! That is what I mean when I say I'm a sinner! I'm hoping that if I get to heaven, that I see everyone here who I might never meet in real life. I was actually thinking about this in God the other day. I thought if we were all in a room, I wouldn't know any of you. Until you started speaking, then I'd know you by your voices, by what you were saying in conversation. And I thought that it is like that in God, you can't tell a person has the holy spirit within their hearts until they open their mouths and you hear him through the voice. And sometimes people are quick to judge, yet the people we judge could be of God (but we shouldn't judge regardless). I sometimes wonder what people must have thought when they saw my uncle living rough. I hope people showed him compassion and mercy because he did it for the love of God in his heart. Because he wanted to give the blessing he had to others. It's so important not to judge another's heart, because God could have different ideas. Whatever they believe in! Well okay then, that's a relief! But I think most people know you don't feel better than anyone. None of us should. We all make mistakes, get grouchy, etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 15:55:50 GMT -5
[quote author=" NathanB" You do what you feel, believe is right for your family and we do the same, no need to get hostile about it.Nathan, we will continue in the happiness we have found. Not hostile, just pointing out that 2x2ism, is not the only Christian way. You do not have the monopoly on it. Strange how you push your story, but not willing to hear ours. Guess that is the true 2x2 way, pity. Thank goodness I am able to retreat to TLC, where there is peace, perfect peace. TMB is becoming a hostile place, and that is so sad. |
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Post by Lee on Jun 23, 2015 17:51:53 GMT -5
IMO the sermon is so much BS to preserve the mystic of the 2x2 ministry. I don't thing Christ would have suffered five minutes of it.
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LL
Jun 23, 2015 20:59:08 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 20:59:08 GMT -5
IMO the sermon is so much BS to preserve the mystic of the 2x2 ministry. I don't thing Christ would have suffered five minutes of it. well what ever it is to different one's, Christ does know what it is to Him and he doesn't worry about what any of us think about it |
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LL
Jun 24, 2015 0:58:07 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 0:58:07 GMT -5
Quote - "However we have had a wonderful life experience, meeting
real Christians. The mainstream Churches are doing the same job."
Really? One newspaper here in Australia said that the Pope (re his
latest encyclical on global warming) "He doesn't belong to the
Catholic Church, he belongs to the world."
There was a time when the world literally DID belong to the Catholic
Church. Indeed, one Pope divided the globe into two halves - one for
Spain, the other for Portugal.
Can you explain to me how the Workers belong to the world?
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LL
Jun 24, 2015 1:03:25 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 1:03:25 GMT -5
Quote - "IMO the sermon is so much BS to preserve the mystic of the 2x2 ministry"
Agreed Virgo. I am sure a foul mouthed Jesus never said any of those
words about a "corn of wheat falling into the ground and dying;" the
"son of man has nowhere to lay his head," and, "freely given freely
receive."
I am sure a dirty mouthed Paul never penned those words, "I have been
in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and
thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. Apart from such
external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all
the churches. Who is weak without my being weak? Who is led into sin
without my intense concern?"
Lots of BS in the bible, isn't there?
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Post by rational on Jun 24, 2015 1:08:59 GMT -5
I don't agree with forcing predjuces and opinions down children's throats either but I do believe it important to teach them about God and Jesus. Meeting these criteria seems impossible. The Jesuits knew what they were talking about when they said " Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man." I wonder why parents don't allow children to discover their faith in a paranormal being on their own? |
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LL
Jun 24, 2015 1:14:15 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 1:14:15 GMT -5
You don't need to worry about children getting
too religious Rational.
Here in Australia the fastest growth in "ice"
(methamphetamine) is school children, and the
best growth areas are school grounds.
The lowest church attending demographic is, of
course, children.
Our children are making it quite clear they want
some more than their bible-toting ancestors.
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LL
Jun 24, 2015 1:26:34 GMT -5
Post by rational on Jun 24, 2015 1:26:34 GMT -5
You don't need to worry about children getting
too religious Rational.
Here in Australia the fastest growth in "ice"
(methamphetamine) is school children, and the
best growth areas are school grounds.
The lowest church attending demographic is, of
course, children.
Our children are making it quite clear they want
some more than their bible-toting ancestors. Drugs and religiosity are not exclusive. Sounds like a sad situation and, if it is anything like the trend in the US, the increased use is by those from a disadvantaged background, the ones that have the fewest resources for getting freed from the drug. |
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LL
Jun 24, 2015 1:37:34 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 1:37:34 GMT -5
In Australia all socio-demographic groups try drugs.
When I was at school there was one guy in the whole
school who's parents were divorced - we thought there
was something wrong with him. And drugs? Just a few
kids behind the toilets smoking cigarettes.
Our kids today, half of them from broken homes, are
really challenging conventions.
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LL
Jun 24, 2015 2:09:14 GMT -5
Post by Roselyn T on Jun 24, 2015 2:09:14 GMT -5
Bert, how or why did you think there was something wrong with the boy whose parents were divorced ? Was it his fault his parents divorced ? Honestly !
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 24, 2015 2:59:32 GMT -5
I sometimes wonder what people must have thought when they saw my uncle living rough.
Am I assuming by "rough" that you probably mean close to "poverty?"
The reason that I ask is that was one of Eddy Cooney's beliefs.
Some excerpts from The Secret Sect: pg.74
"At a convention in Launceston, Tasmania, in 1922, Cooney publicly preached the superiority of the poverty principle which he wanted reinstated so the preachers should have become equally poor and equal in rank, with no superiors to restrict them.
He impressed convention-goers by his personal dedication to the principle of poverty, drew attention to his clothing and shouted,"Dead man's trousers!"
Ever since your mention of your uncle "living rough," that idea keep nagging at me & I knew I had heard it used about Eddy Cooney but in different terms many times through out the history of the **TRUTH** or 2x2's , F&W's as it is now called.
I knew that I had heard it about Edward Cooney more than once & finally had the time to do some research.
Another book that we have has a chapter called the "Cooneyites," & calls them"Tramp preachers or Go-preachers"
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Deleted
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LL
Jun 24, 2015 3:12:34 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 3:12:34 GMT -5
Don't limit yourself to reading advocacy literature on Cooney
Dmmichgood. Ask those who knew him, or those who knew those
who knew him.
And read scripture more closely. The Gospel are not Poverty
Gospels. There's no virtue in poverty as far as God is concerned.
The "poor" of the Gospel included lots, (John and James Zebedee;
Luke; Zachius; Nichodemus etc. who were middle or upper class
people.)
The risk in reading Cooney Accounts, is that you wind up as mad
as he was. There is no "secret" to this man.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 24, 2015 3:16:26 GMT -5
Nathan,I agree with you 2x2 are unique,very unique, we know, we have been there. All we say is don't push the line, "We are the only way, the right way". This was a good sales pitch in the early days, it put bums on seats, including our Parents. However we have had a wonderful life experience, meeting real Christians. The mainstream Churches are doing the same job. Please do not throw scripture at me, as the Bible is a very diverse book, you can find a verse to suit any situation. Glad you feel like a butterfly, don't land on my Wife's pot plants, or you will be hit with a burst of insect spray.
I agree! I don't want anything landing on my pot plants either, -especially butterflies!
I wouldn't want them fluttering away half stoned & end up on someone's car windshield!
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) Let me re-write it with certain emphasis: "IF the only remaining difference between them and us is the ministry and meeting in a home, how can we defend our faith?”
