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Post by Roselyn T on May 7, 2015 5:44:26 GMT -5
Even if the ex was the one that cheated with someone else? Doesn't it say except for fornication ? that would be adultery not fornication...the only exception is fornication, that means while you were single and you had sex...then met someone and got married on your wedding night when the bride or groom found out you were not a virgin they could divorce you...and remarry So its ok to divorce & re-marry in the above case you have mentioned Wally, but if you get married & your spouse has sex with someone else and divorces you, you in turn cannot re-marry ? That really does not make any sense to me !
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Post by CherieKropp on May 7, 2015 8:36:01 GMT -5
Even if the ex was the one that cheated with someone else? Doesn't it say except for fornication ? that would be adultery not fornication...the only exception is fornication, that means while you were single and you had sex...then met someone and got married on your wedding night when the bride or groom found out you were not a virgin they could divorce you...and remarry Matthew 5:32: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.From: Vines Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words: Fornication defined in the above verse (porneia) Strongs #4202 is used for "illicit sexual intercourse"…in Matt 5:32, and 19:9 stands for or includes adultery. It is distinguished from it in 15:19, and Mark 7:21. Adulterer (moichos) Strongs #3432 denotes one "who has unlawful intercourse with the spouse of another."
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Post by snow on May 7, 2015 12:47:13 GMT -5
that would be adultery not fornication...the only exception is fornication, that means while you were single and you had sex...then met someone and got married on your wedding night when the bride or groom found out you were not a virgin they could divorce you...and remarry So its ok to divorce & re-marry in the above case you have mentioned Wally, but if you get married & your spouse has sex with someone else and divorces you, you in turn cannot re-marry ? That really does not make any sense to me ! Face it, religion and it's various beliefs, rarely make sense. It's not about making sense, it's about believing even when we don't understand and it doesn't make sense.
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Post by bubbles on May 8, 2015 13:49:53 GMT -5
What has common sense got to do with faith? Faith is hoping for the unseen. Common sense flys out the door. If faith had anything to do with common sense it would not be faith. So what? Why is common sense so important when we live in a created world. Not a laboratory. We are creative beings. The product of a creative God. Who enjoyed being creative.
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Post by snow on May 8, 2015 17:24:21 GMT -5
What has common sense got to do with faith? Faith is hoping for the unseen. Common sense flys out the door. If faith had anything to do with common sense it would not be faith. So what? Why is common sense so important when we live in a created world. Not a laboratory. We are creative beings. The product of a creative God. Who enjoyed being creative. Common sense if important too though, don't you think? When you're jumping off a cliff, faith isn't going to do you much good.
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julio
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Post by julio on May 8, 2015 18:56:22 GMT -5
For Felicity; I too was told the same thing, and I've visited with several workers on this issue. But over many years, much praying and reading and researching (and I encourage you to do the same), it seems that in the O.T. Moses gave them a writ of divorcement 'due to the hardness of their hearts'. They were 'putting away' their wives without a divorce, which meant they were not free to marry again. (Deut. 24:2) The law gave the woman the liberty to marry again. Jesus came, upholding the law, not changing it. Jesus came with mercy and compassion, showing the heart of the Father toward His children. Jesus was giving a heart lesson in Matthew, and I understand the root word was 'put away'. Simply put, if a person is separated from their spouse and marry another, they are committing adultery. Divorced, they are not. I wondered why the differences in practice around the world and asked one worker why, because I saw it as a lack of unity. He said "They are misinterpreting the verse that says 'what God hath joined together let man not put asunder'. They are saying 'cannot' instead of 'let', so they think that the person is still married to the spouse after a divorce, therefore committing adultery. The reality is that man does put asunder, and often sin is involved. But sin can be forgiven (there is only one unforgivable sin, and that is not divorce)."
Ephesians 4 is a good study on unity, and I've come to accept that there will never be human unity in our fellowship, as there are differences of practices (2 Cor 9:12) or administrations, but the unity of the Spirit is the same around the world. We all have the same desire to be united as one body prepared for an eternity with our Lord as the Bride of Christ. These human 'rules' will all fall away, and I'm thankful to be able to look forward to that day!
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Post by snow on May 8, 2015 19:37:03 GMT -5
For Felicity; I too was told the same thing, and I've visited with several workers on this issue. But over many years, much praying and reading and researching (and I encourage you to do the same), it seems that in the O.T. Moses gave them a writ of divorcement 'due to the hardness of their hearts'. They were 'putting away' their wives without a divorce, which meant they were not free to marry again. (Deut. 24:2) The law gave the woman the liberty to marry again. Jesus came, upholding the law, not changing it. Jesus came with mercy and compassion, showing the heart of the Father toward His children. Jesus was giving a heart lesson in Matthew, and I understand the root word was 'put away'. Simply put, if a person is separated from their spouse and marry another, they are committing adultery. Divorced, they are not. I wondered why the differences in practice around the world and asked one worker why, because I saw it as a lack of unity. He said "They are misinterpreting the verse that says 'what God hath joined together let man not put asunder'. They are saying 'cannot' instead of 'let', so they think that the person is still married to the spouse after a divorce, therefore committing adultery. The reality is that man does put asunder, and often sin is involved. But sin can be forgiven (there is only one unforgivable sin, and that is not divorce)." Ephesians 4 is a good study on unity, and I've come to accept that there will never be human unity in our fellowship, as there are differences of practices (2 Cor 9:12) or administrations, but the unity of the Spirit is the same around the world. We all have the same desire to be united as one body prepared for an eternity with our Lord as the Bride of Christ. These human 'rules' will all fall away, and I'm thankful to be able to look forward to that day! That's how I understood it too julio. It was common for men to just leave their wives and that left them without someone to care for them and the children from that marriage. It was to protect these women instead of making their lives harder and more lonely.
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Post by bubbles on May 8, 2015 21:47:49 GMT -5
What has common sense got to do with faith? Faith is hoping for the unseen. Common sense flys out the door. If faith had anything to do with common sense it would not be faith. So what? Why is common sense so important when we live in a created world. Not a laboratory. We are creative beings. The product of a creative God. Who enjoyed being creative. Common sense if important too though, don't you think? When you're jumping off a cliff, faith isn't going to do you much good. Jumping off a cliff would have everything to do with doing yourself in. Nothing to do with faith.
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Post by rational on May 9, 2015 8:11:08 GMT -5
Common sense if important too though, don't you think? When you're jumping off a cliff, faith isn't going to do you much good. Jumping off a cliff would have everything to do with doing yourself in. Nothing to do with faith. Perhaps the implication was that you had faith you could fly or believed that god was, like the sparrow, looking out for you. You can't fly and while god might be looking after the sparrow that might have been enough to distract him/her from looking after you when you hurl yourself off the cliff!
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Post by snow on May 9, 2015 14:51:22 GMT -5
Common sense if important too though, don't you think? When you're jumping off a cliff, faith isn't going to do you much good. Jumping off a cliff would have everything to do with doing yourself in. Nothing to do with faith. Oh ye of little faith! Why won't God help if he wants to and your faith in him is strong enough? Seriously though, you know what I mean. Not getting a blood transfusion for your child because of your interpretation of the bible and relying on prayer and faith would be another example that may better get across my comment on needing a level of common sense along with that strong faith.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 18:22:23 GMT -5
Jumping off a cliff would have everything to do with doing yourself in. Nothing to do with faith. Oh ye of little faith! Why won't God help if he wants to and your faith in him is strong enough? Seriously though, you know what I mean. Not getting a blood transfusion for your child because of your interpretation of the bible and relying on prayer and faith would be another example that may better get across my comment on needing a level of common sense along with that strong faith. Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: Luk 4:10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: Luk 4:11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
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Post by bubbles on May 9, 2015 22:05:40 GMT -5
Jumping off a cliff would have everything to do with doing yourself in. Nothing to do with faith. Oh ye of little faith! Why won't God help if he wants to and your faith in him is strong enough? Seriously though, you know what I mean. Not getting a blood transfusion for your child because of your interpretation of the bible and relying on prayer and faith would be another example that may better get across my comment on needing a level of common sense along with that strong faith. Lol...I wouldnt be that stupid. Not all christians are looney tunes. I think where common sense for me comes in is in the way I ask and believe for things. Eg be specific. Timelines etc.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 10, 2015 2:46:56 GMT -5
Oh ye of little faith! Why won't God help if he wants to and your faith in him is strong enough? Seriously though, you know what I mean. Not getting a blood transfusion for your child because of your interpretation of the bible and relying on prayer and faith would be another example that may better get across my comment on needing a level of common sense along with that strong faith. Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: Luk 4:10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: Luk 4:11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Some of that common sense is what is needed in some cases of divorce & re-marriage too !
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Post by rational on May 10, 2015 7:01:35 GMT -5
Oh ye of little faith! Why won't God help if he wants to and your faith in him is strong enough? Seriously though, you know what I mean. Not getting a blood transfusion for your child because of your interpretation of the bible and relying on prayer and faith would be another example that may better get across my comment on needing a level of common sense along with that strong faith. Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: Luk 4:10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: Luk 4:11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. This might be good advice for anyone who believes they are god.
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Post by snow on May 10, 2015 11:45:03 GMT -5
Oh ye of little faith! Why won't God help if he wants to and your faith in him is strong enough? Seriously though, you know what I mean. Not getting a blood transfusion for your child because of your interpretation of the bible and relying on prayer and faith would be another example that may better get across my comment on needing a level of common sense along with that strong faith. Lol...I wouldnt be that stupid. Not all christians are looney tunes. I think where common sense for me comes in is in the way I ask and believe for things. Eg be specific. Timelines etc. Are you saying the JW's are 'looney tunes'? They truly believe this and they claim to get this from their interpretation of the bible. Just because you don't interpret the bible that way can you actually say they are looney tunes? Does that mean that atheists are well within their rights to call those who believe in supernatural Gods, 'looney tunes'? I don't think theists are too happy to be categorized in that way yet some of the beliefs of even the most liberal theists could appear that way to those who do not believe as they do. So this leads to another question. What is considered to be 'common sense' when it comes to beliefs that require faith?
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Post by bubbles on May 10, 2015 13:51:35 GMT -5
Lol...I wouldnt be that stupid. Not all christians are looney tunes. I think where common sense for me comes in is in the way I ask and believe for things. Eg be specific. Timelines etc. Are you saying the JW's are 'looney tunes'? They truly believe this and they claim to get this from their interpretation of the bible. Just because you don't interpret the bible that way can you actually say they are looney tunes? Does that mean that atheists are well within their rights to call those who believe in supernatural Gods, 'looney tunes'? I don't think theists are too happy to be categorized in that way yet some of the beliefs of even the most liberal theists could appear that way to those who do not believe as they do. So this leads to another question. What is considered to be 'common sense' when it comes to beliefs that require faith? My dear snow. At some point you have to see my warped humour or attempt at humour. Its impossible for me to be serious all the time. Especially on here. I was being a twit!! Silly!! It was light hearted banter. Seems I need to apologise. I dont have anything against JWs they just drive me nuts the way they interrupt cleaning time to get in their 20mins witnessing. I do think its stupid to deny anyone blood because of religion. Im sorry I used the word looney tunes. Your last question can be answered by someone else right now its too early in the morning. Cant sleep.
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Post by bubbles on May 10, 2015 13:54:28 GMT -5
Jumping off a cliff would have everything to do with doing yourself in. Nothing to do with faith. Perhaps the implication was that you had faith you could fly or believed that god was, like the sparrow, looking out for you. You can't fly and while god might be looking after the sparrow that might have been enough to distract him/her from looking after you when you hurl yourself off the cliff! Faith isnt quite like that ratz..
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Post by snow on May 10, 2015 16:23:12 GMT -5
Are you saying the JW's are 'looney tunes'? They truly believe this and they claim to get this from their interpretation of the bible. Just because you don't interpret the bible that way can you actually say they are looney tunes? Does that mean that atheists are well within their rights to call those who believe in supernatural Gods, 'looney tunes'? I don't think theists are too happy to be categorized in that way yet some of the beliefs of even the most liberal theists could appear that way to those who do not believe as they do. So this leads to another question. What is considered to be 'common sense' when it comes to beliefs that require faith? My dear snow. At some point you have to see my warped humour or attempt at humour. Its impossible for me to be serious all the time. Especially on here. I was being a twit!! Silly!! It was light hearted banter. Seems I need to apologise. I dont have anything against JWs they just drive me nuts the way they interrupt cleaning time to get in their 20mins witnessing. I do think its stupid to deny anyone blood because of religion. Im sorry I used the word looney tunes. Your last question can be answered by someone else right now its too early in the morning. Cant sleep. Aha, okay, I see. Sorry you can't sleep. Probably because I'm asking all these silly questions lol... and, no need for an apology, I wasn't offended. Just curious. If I was a cat I'd be dead!!
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Post by rational on May 10, 2015 17:43:48 GMT -5
Perhaps the implication was that you had faith you could fly or believed that god was, like the sparrow, looking out for you. You can't fly and while god might be looking after the sparrow that might have been enough to distract him/her from looking after you when you hurl yourself off the cliff! :) Faith isnt quite like that ratz.. Faith is exactly like that. It has been promised several times in the bible but has never been demonstrated. According to the bible, if you believe you should be able to move a mountain, Can you move even a pebble? A grain of sand?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 18:15:56 GMT -5
Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: Luk 4:10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: Luk 4:11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. This might be good advice for anyone who believes they are god. you didn't get it did you...
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Post by rational on May 10, 2015 23:42:34 GMT -5
This might be good advice for anyone who believes they are god. you didn't get it did you... No, I believe I did get it. The whole dialogue only applies to someone who believes they are god.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 13:33:38 GMT -5
Regarding faith (belief) moving a mountain, have you not seen how it did so in the OT? In like manner faith (belief) has moved many a "mountain" for me and others.
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Post by bubbles on May 13, 2015 14:13:59 GMT -5
My dear snow. At some point you have to see my warped humour or attempt at humour. Its impossible for me to be serious all the time. Especially on here. I was being a twit!! Silly!! It was light hearted banter. Seems I need to apologise. I dont have anything against JWs they just drive me nuts the way they interrupt cleaning time to get in their 20mins witnessing. I do think its stupid to deny anyone blood because of religion. Im sorry I used the word looney tunes. Your last question can be answered by someone else right now its too early in the morning. Cant sleep. Aha, okay, I see. Sorry you can't sleep. Probably because I'm asking all these silly questions lol... and, no need for an apology, I wasn't offended. Just curious. If I was a cat I'd be dead!! Another pee stop. Nothing to do with questions..
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Post by bubbles on May 13, 2015 14:15:57 GMT -5
Regarding faith (belief) moving a mountain, have you not seen how it did so in the OT? In like manner faith (belief) has moved many a "mountain" for me and others. Me too. Maybe they take it literally.
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Post by rational on May 13, 2015 15:39:36 GMT -5
Regarding faith (belief) moving a mountain, have you not seen how it did so in the OT? In like manner faith (belief) has moved many a "mountain" for me and others. Me too. Maybe they take it literally. I see. Faith can move the figurative mountain. Or perhaps faith can figuratively move the mountain. I think there is a saying about this! Faith can figuratively move the mountain. Faith can move the figurative mountain. But faith cannot actually move an actual mountain.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 16:18:27 GMT -5
There are two brothers I know:
Older brother married and had two children with first wife, divorced her and left meeting. 20 years later after remarriage and two children by second wife came back to meeting. Helps his former father-in-law and former wife get to meeting and gospel meeting. Is always helping others in the meeting and in the area how ever he can. Wife number 2 is very friendly and nice to everyone.
Younger brother is still married to first wife. Has meeting in his home. Has told me to my face that he could not stand the people that come to his house for meeting. Is gone most weekends while meeting is still in his home. People in his meeting are well aware of his attitude toward them.
Who do you think God will judge as being fruitful to his kingdom???
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 16:50:09 GMT -5
Regarding "faith cannot move an actual mountain."
Dunno about that, Rat, it did in the OT. Then too, even though the amount of faith (belief) required might be more than either of us can muster... I have valued how faith moved a literal mountain in the OT for decades. Much more to this issue than mere words.
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Post by bubbles on May 13, 2015 19:27:27 GMT -5
Me too. Maybe they take it literally. I see. Faith can move the figurative mountain. Or perhaps faith can figuratively move the mountain. I think there is a saying about this! Faith can figuratively move the mountain. Faith can move the figurative mountain. But faith cannot actually move an actual mountain. I have not known of that happening no. Moses parting the red sea would be the closest.
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