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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 14:32:12 GMT -5
Indeed. There needs to be repentance for past sins. But if God accepts the repentant heart (and sets aside the sin), who are men to take a different view? David asked God to "remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions ...". The sins of my youth are covered now by the precious blood of Christ and nobody (whether worker or not) has the right to resurrect things done in ignorance years ago for which I have repented. Why should any man try to bring back something that the Lord has taken away? And the Lamb of God takes away our sin (as if it had never happened) if we are truly contrite and try now to walk in the light as He is in the light. Sex before marriage is a sin in God's sight (the sin of fornication). But nowhere in the bible does it say that sex before marriage actually constitutes marriage. And nowhere in the bible does it say that this is a sin which is not capable of being forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ.Reading the last verses of 1 Cor. 6 may give a slightly different impression. Is fornication with someone else different than with a harlot? in the sight of God? But yes, it is a sin that can be forgiven, because it can be repented from. I think that the generally accepted meaning of the word "fornication" is "sex with anyone that one is not married to". I don't think God would look at this differently but I stand to be corrected! A man having sex with a harlot may cause less damage than if he had sex with his neighbour's wife. But both acts are wrong and sinful.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 5:43:56 GMT -5
Reading the last verses of 1 Cor. 6 may give a slightly different impression. Is fornication with someone else different than with a harlot? in the sight of God? But yes, it is a sin that can be forgiven, because it can be repented from. I think that the generally accepted meaning of the word "fornication" is "sex with anyone that one is not married to". I don't think God would look at this differently but I stand to be corrected! A man having sex with a harlot may cause less damage than if he had sex with his neighbour's wife. But both acts are wrong and sinful. I guess it depends on what constitutes a marriage in the eyes of God. We heard at convention last year that when a man and woman are living together as man and wife (even if they haven't done the paperwork) that they twain are made one flesh in the eyes of God, and that for either of them to marry anyone else afterwards would be adultery.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 7:47:43 GMT -5
[/quote]I guess it depends on what constitutes a marriage in the eyes of God. We heard at convention last year that when a man and woman are living together as man and wife (even if they haven't done the paperwork) that they twain are made one flesh in the eyes of God, and that for either of them to marry anyone else afterwards would be adultery. [/quote]
Hmmm ... that's not how I read my bible. Seems like a human interpretation to me. When Jesus was talking about two people being one flesh, it was in the context of marriage and divorce. There is a difference between fornication and adultery. Adultery will always be fornication but fornication may not necessarily be adultery.
"But we make his love too narrow with false limits of our own, And we magnify his strictness with a zeal he will not own."
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 7:58:33 GMT -5
I think that the generally accepted meaning of the word "fornication" is "sex with anyone that one is not married to". I don't think God would look at this differently but I stand to be corrected! A man having sex with a harlot may cause less damage than if he had sex with his neighbour's wife. But both acts are wrong and sinful. I guess it depends on what constitutes a marriage in the eyes of God. We heard at convention last year that when a man and woman are living together as man and wife (even if they haven't done the paperwork) that they twain are made one flesh in the eyes of God, and that for either of them to marry anyone else afterwards would be adultery. Ummmm! Does God sanction common law unions between women and men? From a very young age I was told that it was frowned on and treated as living in sin: fornication. Any children from such unions out of wedlock were called illegitimate bastards. Very unfortunately so for the innocent children involved.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 10:09:27 GMT -5
Good point partaker. If the Lord God had wanted us to believe that marriage means something different to what the vast majority of people think it to be, He would have said so in His Word - He didn't so it doesn't. Better to trust in God's word than in the word of man.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2015 20:12:59 GMT -5
I think that the generally accepted meaning of the word "fornication" is "sex with anyone that one is not married to". I don't think God would look at this differently but I stand to be corrected! A man having sex with a harlot may cause less damage than if he had sex with his neighbour's wife. But both acts are wrong and sinful. I guess it depends on what constitutes a marriage in the eyes of God. We heard at convention last year that when a man and woman are living together as man and wife (even if they haven't done the paperwork) that they twain are made one flesh in the eyes of God, and that for either of them to marry anyone else afterwards would be adultery. So what about workers that have sex with women before they go in the work then have sex with married women while they are in the work are they committing adultery ?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2015 20:14:31 GMT -5
Also in that case there would be a lot of the young ones that go to meeting that are committing adultery !
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2015 20:17:32 GMT -5
Except, of course the workers do change the bible.
I remember all the years when someone whose husband had left them couldn't re-marry anyone else. If they did they could no longer take part in meeting. Until, -until! Someone was allowed to re -marry & still take part in the meeting! Guess the gender of that person? Yes, yes! -of course! A man!
All those years that it was women who had had to live he rest of their lives alone, -but along comes a man & viola! It is ok.
That doesn't make it right. And it doesn't change the Bible. Felicity are you saying that the workers who allow D&R are making the wrong decision ?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 3:42:56 GMT -5
I guess it depends on what constitutes a marriage in the eyes of God. We heard at convention last year that when a man and woman are living together as man and wife (even if they haven't done the paperwork) that they twain are made one flesh in the eyes of God, and that for either of them to marry anyone else afterwards would be adultery. So what about workers that have sex with women before they go in the work then have sex with married women while they are in the work are they committing adultery ? If that were to happen, of course it would be adultery. How could it not be?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 3:44:04 GMT -5
That doesn't make it right. And it doesn't change the Bible. Felicity are you saying that the workers who allow D&R are making the wrong decision ? Yes, it doesn't line up with the scriptures.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 3:46:22 GMT -5
Also in that case there would be a lot of the young ones that go to meeting that are committing adultery ! If that's true, then it's sad, but I don't know anyone in that position.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 6, 2015 3:48:19 GMT -5
Felicity are you saying that the workers who allow D&R are making the wrong decision ? Yes, it doesn't line up with the scriptures. So when a person is left on their own with children & their ex-spouse divorces them what are they suppose to do ?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 6, 2015 3:49:19 GMT -5
Also in that case there would be a lot of the young ones that go to meeting that are committing adultery ! If that's true, then it's sad, but I don't know anyone in that position. I know a lot of the young ones is Australia who would be in this position
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 3:58:31 GMT -5
Yes, it doesn't line up with the scriptures. So when a person is left on their own with children & their ex-spouse divorces them what are they suppose to do ? I know a few people in that position. It's a very lonely and difficult experience. The only option is to remain unmarried while their ex is alive. I know of people who are doing that - not because they were told to, but because that is the conclusion they came to from reading the scriptures.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 6, 2015 4:55:34 GMT -5
Even if the ex was the one that cheated with someone else? Doesn't it say except for fornication ?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 5:17:07 GMT -5
Even if the ex was the one that cheated with someone else? Doesn't it say except for fornication ? Wouldn't cheating with someone else be adultery, as well as fornication? Anyway, that same verse says "whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery", so there isn't any way of remarriage without committing adultery.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 6, 2015 6:06:29 GMT -5
King James Bible And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 6:37:48 GMT -5
King James Bible And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Yes, there can be situations where divorce/separation is necessary, but remarriage is adultery.
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Post by CherieKropp on May 6, 2015 13:27:24 GMT -5
King James Bible And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Restated, the above scripture is saying that... A man who "puts away" his wife (abandons/deserts/casts her out without giving her a Bill of Divorcement) and marries another woman--commits adultery (for he is still married to his first wife) (except in the case she is guilty of fornication). and A man who marries a woman who has been "put away" (abandoned, deserted, cast out) by her husband without a Bill of Divorcement commits adultery. It makes perfect sense...today in America and many other countries, it is not legal for a man to marry a woman who is married and is not divorced. Interesting that both comments relate to "a man who..."
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Post by rational on May 6, 2015 15:11:03 GMT -5
Nathan, to clarify what Ted wrote: He used the term " boyfriend" but the other person who posted about this particular case said they were living together (living together as man and wife/ cohabiting/ having a sexual relationship - however you like to phrase it) not just dating each other. I very much doubt that these people have been "turned away from fellowship" - that's not the same thing as having the scriptures explained to you, and choosing not to fulfil the conditions - or not being willing to "go and sin no more". So the issue here is sex? I lived with my college room mate and we never had sex. Why is god so focused on sex.
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Post by rational on May 6, 2015 15:48:45 GMT -5
Reading the last verses of 1 Cor. 6 may give a slightly different impression. Is fornication with someone else different than with a harlot? in the sight of God? But yes, it is a sin that can be forgiven, because it can be repented from. I think that the generally accepted meaning of the word "fornication" is "sex with anyone that one is not married to". I don't think God would look at this differently but I stand to be corrected! A man having sex with a harlot may cause less damage than if he had sex with his neighbour's wife. But both acts are wrong and sinful. Hard to imagine why anyone but humans would be so obsessed with sex!
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Post by CherieKropp on May 6, 2015 17:09:30 GMT -5
King James Bible And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Yes, there can be situations where divorce/separation is necessary, but remarriage is adultery. Felicity: Do you believe remarriage after divorce for fornication is adultery?
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hberry
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Post by hberry on May 6, 2015 17:37:38 GMT -5
Nathan, to clarify what Ted wrote: He used the term " boyfriend" but the other person who posted about this particular case said they were living together (living together as man and wife/ cohabiting/ having a sexual relationship - however you like to phrase it) not just dating each other. I very much doubt that these people have been "turned away from fellowship" - that's not the same thing as having the scriptures explained to you, and choosing not to fulfil the conditions - or not being willing to "go and sin no more". So the issue here is sex? I lived with my college room mate and we never had sex. ...snip What in the world was wrong with you two?
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Post by rational on May 6, 2015 17:57:59 GMT -5
So the issue here is sex? I lived with my college room mate and we never had sex. ...snip What in the world was wrong with you two? :) Well, I think sex is a natural biological function and since it is a key driving force that religion/organizations/god creators have used it as a means of control, punishment, domination, and rewards on the people under (no pun intended) them. <soap_box> You have to wonder why an omniscient omnipotent god would have so much interest in people's genitalia and and what they do with them. Throughout the bible men have had multiple wives and concubines but now a couple who lived together is being denied something they want for reasons that deny understanding. If I were a betting person I would bet that many here have had more than a single sexual partner.
</soap_box>
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Post by Gene on May 6, 2015 18:38:27 GMT -5
What in the world was wrong with you two? Well, I think sex is a natural biological function and since it is a key driving force that religion/organizations/god creators have used it as a means of control, punishment, domination, and rewards on the people under (no pun intended) them. <soap_box> You have to wonder why an omniscient omnipotent god would have so much interest in people's genitalia and and what they do with them. Throughout the bible men have had multiple wives and concubines but now a couple who lived together is being denied something they want for reasons that deny understanding. If I were a betting person I would bet that many here have had more than a single sexual partner.
</soap_box> You mean this week?
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Post by rational on May 6, 2015 19:24:57 GMT -5
Well, I think sex is a natural biological function and since it is a key driving force that religion/organizations/god creators have used it as a means of control, punishment, domination, and rewards on the people under (no pun intended) them. <soap_box> You have to wonder why an omniscient omnipotent god would have so much interest in people's genitalia and and what they do with them. Throughout the bible men have had multiple wives and concubines but now a couple who lived together is being denied something they want for reasons that deny understanding. If I were a betting person I would bet that many here have had more than a single sexual partner.
</soap_box> You mean this week? What is it with 'you people'? If I were mean wouldn't it be more obvious than this! Actually I was thinking about the last couple of days.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 22:30:06 GMT -5
Even if the ex was the one that cheated with someone else? Doesn't it say except for fornication ? that would be adultery not fornication...the only exception is fornication, that means while you were single and you had sex...then met someone and got married on your wedding night when the bride or groom found out you were not a virgin they could divorce you...and remarry
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Post by rational on May 7, 2015 0:20:07 GMT -5
Even if the ex was the one that cheated with someone else? Doesn't it say except for fornication ? that would be adultery not fornication...the only exception is fornication, that means while you were single and you had sex...then met someone and got married on your wedding night when the bride or groom found out you were not a virgin they could divorce you...and remarry Fornication is generally consensual sexual intercourse between two people not married to each other. One is a subset of another. Would anyone actually want to marry and spend their life with someone like that? There could be no forgiveness?
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