Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 8:10:54 GMT -5
I can't understand why people who aren't professing are so concerned about where the money comes from. Nobody is asking you for money *** They feel their parents were conned into giving away money for a bad cause! Well I suppose lots of people feel that way about Government taxes also, I do.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 1, 2015 14:42:13 GMT -5
a)Do understand that those who remain in the fellowship and those who leave have different experiences of it? Y/N? b) You left as you were not satisfied. I am very satisfied and remain. Is our experience the same? Y/N If that doesn't help you understand our different perspective and experience in and of the fellowship then I don't know what will. All I am asking you is which of those particular statements that I made in that one particular post of mine that didn't fit your own "perspective" Your only answer was a non-answer by saying: "Wow your experience and perspective is different to mine dmg."
You are still not answering. I would like for you to answer what particular part of that particular of my post that is different than your own perspective.
Simple. Just that one post. That one post where you didn't answer & only made the statement:
"Wow your experience and perspective is different to mine dmg."
I'll copy out that post in case that you have lost it.
Post by dmmichgood on 22 hours ago Indeed, There are indeed MANY wonderful decent people who have left. Indeed, There are ALSO MANY wonderful decent people that are still in!
Just as I said there are some kind ,decent ex-workers. There are also some kind, decent workers who are still in the work!
As to none the statement that none of your "church"* members write books about their ex church calling it a cult.
There is a very good reason that people in the TRUTH don't write books. We were told not to even read books, let alone writing one!
Everyone I knew as I was growing up in the TRUTH would have certainly discouraged anything like one writing a book, or Painting a picture? (Yes, I once heard a worker disparage a woman in the TRUTH who did some painting!)
They "discouraged" even listening to classic music, let alone creating any music. (unless of course it was a hymn) Creating anything within the field of the arts, was verboten.
Remember, no one needs a "cathartic release" unless there is need to get rid of some foul stuff.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 1, 2015 15:22:07 GMT -5
a)Do understand that those who remain in the fellowship and those who leave have different experiences of it? Y/N? b) You left as you were not satisfied. I am very satisfied and remain. Is our experience the same? Y/N If that doesn't help you understand our different perspective and experience in and of the fellowship then I don't know what will. You make the statement, "You left as you were not satisfied."
You have no idea of why I left!
|
|
|
Post by Mary on May 1, 2015 16:06:36 GMT -5
Review, those in and those who have left have had similar experiences less a few who may have had a bad experience.
People count the cost and those who stay feel the cost to leave is too great (whatever and however you might perceive that to be), and those who leave feel the cost is too great to stay.
My life in was no different from those who stay in. I was a committed professing person as much as any who are in. In fact maybe more so. God lead me out, the cost to stay was too great. I think it takes honesty to leave. Given the stories of many, many stay because of family.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 1, 2015 16:54:21 GMT -5
dmg, will you be answering the y/n questions? You are under no obligation to do so. I will not be answering questions about 'particular' statements' of 'particular posts'.I stand by my statement that your perspective and experience of the fellowship is different to mine.....evidenced by the fact that you left and I remain and remain satisfied in it. That has been quite obvious from the beginning, -that you are not going to answer specific a question with a specific answer! You have never answered questions before; so I really didn't expect you to start now. Your method of "answering" questions has been to ridicule & denigrate other peoples posts.
I wasn't born yesterday, I just checked & I am not still wet behind the ears.
So, I won't fall for having to chose either a flat Y/N answer to someone that gets to frame the question. It is an old tactic, but it will not work with me.
I am going to make a flat statement here. I do hope that I NEVER, EVER have your "perspective" on just about everything that you have posted here.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 1, 2015 17:09:52 GMT -5
Add a PS to my last post.
I will say, review005, that you have learned your lessons well in how to NOT answer questions directly.
Using the art of slip sliding around questions & if that fails, -just start attacking the questioner.
Finally, bombast people by 'pulling out all the stops'
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 1, 2015 17:11:54 GMT -5
Relax. I'd say your flat statement and hope will be fulfilled. OH my , -I certainly do hope so!
|
|
|
Post by emy on May 1, 2015 17:40:34 GMT -5
More spiritual abuse comes from relatives and elders than from the workers these days, I am sure. Some hearty know it all elders contribute greatly to the needs to the Kingdom. And the workers feel the need to satisfy the elders with some harsh action. Such as Mr. Miller in Texas who was kicked out of the meetings by his elder. I don't think this is an entirely accurate statement. When I listened to the recording and read some comments, I understood the elder to say there were some things Mr. Miller said that upset other folks in the meeting, so would he either refrain from saying such or not speak in the meeting? If there was a request to stop attending meeting, please point me to the evidence.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 18:15:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Mary on May 1, 2015 18:17:06 GMT -5
I know we have different perspectives now Review005, but our early experiences were similar. I feel most do question in any walk of life, but many find it safer and easier to stay in meetings than leave. You hear of those who are happy as workers do not like people who express doubt, dissatisfaction, or question, whereas I have heard the other side from hundreds over the years who are not happy and who express just as I have expressed here. Being in different roles we hear different things.
I would have no problem leaving my church and going to another one with similar values and beliefs. I am not professing a church but Christ.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 18:17:36 GMT -5
0:24-0:33
|
|
|
Post by Gene on May 1, 2015 19:48:08 GMT -5
I think we all need to express some appreciation for Review007s contributions to this board.
He provides an authoritative, official insight to the workers' doctrine, policy, practice and manner of interaction with the unsaved, and a permanent record of the same.
As such, I hope none of us does anything to dissuade him from posting on this board or being as forthright as he has been in the past, as indicated not only by his words, but also by his tone.
|
|
|
Post by whyisitso on May 1, 2015 21:14:02 GMT -5
I think we all need to express some appreciation for Review007s contributions to this board. He provides an authoritative, official insight to the workers' doctrine, policy, practice and manner of interaction with the unsaved, and a permanent record of the same. As such, I hope none of us does anything to dissuade him from posting on this board or being as forthright as he has been in the past, as indicated not only by his words, but also by his tone. Now here I thought 007 was reserved for James Bond! Review has left it for him Gene so you should too
|
|
|
Post by Greg on May 1, 2015 21:23:22 GMT -5
I think there is nothing that the friends and workers do as a world-wide fellowship that is official.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on May 1, 2015 22:01:29 GMT -5
Review, those in and those who have left have had similar experiences less a few who may have had a bad experience. People count the cost and those who stay feel the cost to leave is too great (whatever and however you might perceive that to be), and those who leave feel the cost is too great to stay. My life in was no different from those who stay in. I was a committed professing person as much as any who are in. In fact maybe more so. God lead me out, the cost to stay was too great. I think it takes honesty to leave. Given the stories of many, many stay because of family. That is so true Mary, its takes HONESTY to leave, it is so easy the "Sit on the fence" to go to every meeting to appear to be doing what the workers expect but behind the scenes its a different story ! The amount of young ones now that watch movies on laptops but won't have a TV is just one example that comes to mind.
|
|
|
Post by Magic-8-Ball on May 1, 2015 22:10:41 GMT -5
I think we all need to express some appreciation for Review007s contributions to this board. He provides an authoritative, official insight to the workers' doctrine, policy, practice and manner of interaction with the unsaved, and a permanent record of the same. As such, I hope none of us does anything to dissuade him from posting on this board or being as forthright as he has been in the past, as indicated not only by his words, but also by his tone. Now here I thought 007 was reserved for James Bond! Review has left it for him Gene so you should too Rev 005 Stirred, not shaken
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 1, 2015 23:53:54 GMT -5
I think we all need to express some appreciation for Review007s contributions to this board. He provides an authoritative, official insight to the workers' doctrine, policy, practice and manner of interaction with the unsaved, and a permanent record of the same.As such, I hope none of us does anything to dissuade him from posting on this board or being as forthright as he has been in the past, as indicated not only by his words, but also by his tone. Indeed, indeed,-Gene!
and as you say, we have it as permanent record!
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 2, 2015 1:19:29 GMT -5
dmg, lovely to see that you've found something to make you smiley and happy, well done, keep it up, keep that happy perspective about the permanent record! Will do!
|
|
|
Post by Greg on May 18, 2015 4:47:02 GMT -5
Your accusation regarding a posting I deleted with mention of your father in it is just another of false, baseless statement that I reject outright. What did you do with it? With apologies . . . this post has nothing to do with "Percy Watkins funeral notes"
|
|
|
Post by Greg on May 18, 2015 5:01:06 GMT -5
What did you do with it? With apologies . . . this post has nothing to do with "Percy Watkins funeral notes" Greg, thanks but no need to offer any apologies. You can ask me anything you like, I have nothing to hide. On what thread and what date is the post they are referring to? Give me some details and I'll see if I can answer your question. The apologies were to the board, the readers.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse_Lackman on May 18, 2015 10:43:09 GMT -5
Apr 17, 2015 at 6:27am review005 said: . Your posts show that you to grasp any and every opportunity to malign the church you once belonged to; the church your dear father lived as and died as a member of.The church your mother and probably other family members remain members of despite all your 'valid reasons' wny you left and why they should. How is posting this not doing exactly what review said; I hold the strong view that 2x2 teaching on Jesus is heresy and increasingly becoming so. It is not that they just refute Jesus as God (which is heresy in itself) but they bring Jesus down even further by (over) emphasising His humanity at the expense of His divinity. While there is an element of truth in this (like there is in most heresies) when you look at it in the overall sense of who Christ is, it is absolute heresy. If they teach this about Jesus they deserve the nomenclature of a sect or cult. I prefer the former. The single biggest improvement that the F&W fellowship could make is what they teach - if you can't get it right on core Christian doctrine - you have nothing. It's really strange you would do that when you yourself have posted things like this about your family; I never comment on family or those close to me here on TMB - a number of whom are professing. With my family I tend to use the term "your church". When I first left anything I used was offensive (particularly if I said your group) but I think they are roughly okay with "church". If they are offended by "your church" why use the word cult?? If what you said "absolute heresy", "they deserve the nomenclature of a sect or cult" and "you have nothing" doesn't apply to the fellowship in general, who in the fellowship does it apply to, and what is the criteria of judgment? Reconcile that!
|
|
|
Post by Jesse_Lackman on May 18, 2015 20:21:35 GMT -5
How is posting this not doing exactly what review said; I hold the strong view that 2x2 teaching on Jesus is heresy and increasingly becoming so. It is not that they just refute Jesus as God (which is heresy in itself) but they bring Jesus down even further by (over) emphasising His humanity at the expense of His divinity. While there is an element of truth in this (like there is in most heresies) when you look at it in the overall sense of who Christ is, it is absolute heresy. If they teach this about Jesus they deserve the nomenclature of a sect or cult. I prefer the former. The single biggest improvement that the F&W fellowship could make is what they teach - if you can't get it right on core Christian doctrine - you have nothing. It's really strange you would do that when you yourself have posted things like this about your family; I never comment on family or those close to me here on TMB - a number of whom are professing. With my family I tend to use the term "your church". When I first left anything I used was offensive (particularly if I said your group) but I think they are roughly okay with "church". Jesse, I have answered this on the other thread. If my comments have offended you I am sorry for that. I have not targeted anyone's family and I'm also sorry that you support this behaviour. Both erroneous but both vehemently supported by yourself and Review005 as gospel. It’s a pity that you vehemently support Review005's poor behaviour.
Now you say I "vehemently support" Review's behavior? Are you kidding? I've quoted and commented on your words. Your words target everyone in the fellowship! And you asked me "how do you reconcile this behaviour with one professing Godliness?"
Wow.
Maybe you should do what redback suggested;
Ross, please give up. You are fighting a loosing battle. It is becoming annoying, we should all get back to the thread, " Cult to Christ", Elizabeth's book.
|
|
|
Post by whyisitso on May 19, 2015 5:25:44 GMT -5
May 19, 2015 13:02:19 GMT 12 Ross Bowden said: (my comments/corrections in red)"Let me give you an analogy." "I understand that Review005 is a worker - this is widely known although he doesn't comment on it."
He is correct; it is widely known that I am a worker. He is letting out one of the 'worst kept secrets on TMB'!
"Some of the members of my family are professing – this is widely known although I don’t make comments about my family."
He is a little 'economic' with truth at times!
He wrote. "I don’t make comments about my family" He should have written "I haven't made any comments about my family recently".
It has been adequately documented already on this forum recently the comments in TMB posts he has made about familyI have commented that in the 2x2 church cult-like behaviour exists. I can confirm this is correct! ....numerous times. He appears to get some kind of almost sadistic pleasure in doing so...... (well until it kicked him in the teeth) Review005 has chosen to combine my two completely separate statements to concoct the following false posts:
Ross stated that “his Dad died in a cult” and “his family members are in a cult”. Both erroneous but both vehemently supported by yourself and Review005 as gospel. When Ross first made his allegation I immediately asked him to provide the links; knowing full well I have not posted any such statements.
Oh well ....he had to back down then and came back with "They were edited out".
Then when he wasn't getting his desired confession from me he started his attempts to exact it....and the deeper (or darker?) side of Ross's character and 'christian' principles started to appear. He started with 'low level worker' name calling. Then came several rather ominous sounding real life threats that included international travel for him to come to me. 'Dessert' to follow was coercion and shaming ...... By and by he dropped the 'edited post' allegation. He tells us now I deleted the post with the statements. I absolutely reject that as a baseless false allegation.
The amusing and amazing thing is that Ross doesn't understand (perhaps he does?) is that the big fuss he is making is about something that doesn't exist!
Even if it was edited out or even if it was a deleted post it no longer exists and the only 'proof' that it ever did exist is.... surprise surprise.... statements Ross is presenting here.
But I understand this, I've seen enough of his mischief to know that he stops at nothing if it means scoring a point against the church that he has bubbling internal cauldron of acid about.
Then consider it from this point of view:
Ross has loftily and freely attached 'c' labels to the church. He is entitled to; he has his freedom of expression right. But if someone should refer to the church his family belongs using the 'c' word he starts to scream like a banshee!
Ross in his 'ross-righteous' indignation 'hasn't got a leg to stand'.!
'Play with fire and you'll end up getting burnt.'
Ross loosely and carelessly throws the 'c' word around about the church his family about the church belongs to.
Then he squeals like 'a stuck pig' when the reality hits him that the church he attaches 'cult' labels to is the church his father lived and died in and other family members are still members of!
"Likewise, I could combine Review’s two completely separate statements to concoct the following sermon that Review005 has recently preached at a Convention where he is at".His sarcastic imaginative sermon mocking a 'low-life worker'/our resident TMB worker has been noted.
Ross fairly recently self ross righteously abhorred the use of sarcasm on this forum. I am unable to reconcile his liberal use of sarcasm in his 'sermon' with his previous strong condemnation of it. Perhaps another insight into the 'real' ross and his 'christian' principles?
It is good he has a caring, loving and doubtless praying family.... even if their church has cult like behaviour in the Gospel according to Ross.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse_Lackman on May 19, 2015 8:56:44 GMT -5
May 12, 2015 at 5:05pm review005 said: Ross speaks of his freedom of speech. He is quite correct. If he feels the church he once belonged ( and he posted that he has family members still in the cult..(but he probably doesn't tell them that he calls it a cult))to is a cult he has every freedom to call it a cult. I would encourage him to reguarly voice this. It will help readers on this forum understand him. A revealing fact about Ross is his strident passionate denouncement of his ex church and his silence regarding the ? heresies? immoralities tolerated in his anglican community. Poster Footnote: Bolding something and increasing the font size sometimes help resolve any amnesia the original poster might be experiencing. Looks pretty accurate to me; I never comment on family or those close to me here on TMB - a number of whom are professing. With my family I tend to use the term "your church". When I first left anything I used was offensive (particularly if I said your group) but I think they are roughly okay with "church". I hold the strong view that 2x2 teaching on Jesus is heresy and increasingly becoming so. It is not that they just refute Jesus as God (which is heresy in itself) but they bring Jesus down even further by (over) emphasising His humanity at the expense of His divinity. While there is an element of truth in this (like there is in most heresies) when you look at it in the overall sense of who Christ is, it is absolute heresy. If they teach this about Jesus they deserve the nomenclature of a sect or cult. I prefer the former. The single biggest improvement that the F&W fellowship could make is what they teach - if you can't get it right on core Christian doctrine - you have nothing. It's there, without any doubt; professing family members, and, "they deserve the nomenclature of a sect or cult". You said it. You talk about criticizing the 2x2s, that brings up a thought. You said "when I criticise 2x2 teaching and doctrine" - why is criticism so necessary? How well does it go to change others using criticism of what's perceived to be bad vs inspiration to what's good? How often did Jesus use criticism vs inspiration, and why? It should be plain to see that change through inspiration or building on what's good works way better than change through criticism. Especially criticism like "they deserve the nomenclature of a sect or cult" and "they have nothing". Inspiration rarely offends people, criticism often does. Criticism breed criticism, inspiration breeds inspiration. My challenge to you is to try inspiration, try referring to and building on what's good and see how that goes. If you had done that this discussion would not be happening, if you do it, a discussion like this will never happen again. Proofread your posts and weed out all the criticism and leave only inspiration. Be the change you want to see. If you want to reap criticism by all means criticize, if you want to reap inspiration then inspire using what's good and right.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 15:15:49 GMT -5
Children behave!
|
|
|
Post by whyisitso on May 19, 2015 16:04:32 GMT -5
May 12, 2015 at 5:05pm review005 said: Ross speaks of his freedom of speech. He is quite correct. If he feels the church he once belonged ( and he posted that he has family members still in the cult..(but he probably doesn't tell them that he calls it a cult))to is a cult he has every freedom to call it a cult. I would encourage him to reguarly voice this. It will help readers on this forum understand him. A revealing fact about Ross is his strident passionate denouncement of his ex church and his silence regarding the ? heresies? immoralities tolerated in his anglican community. Poster Footnote: Bolding something and increasing the font size sometimes help resolve any amnesia the original poster might be experiencing. Looks pretty accurate to me; I never comment on family or those close to me here on TMB - a number of whom are professing. With my family I tend to use the term "your church". When I first left anything I used was offensive (particularly if I said your group) but I think they are roughly okay with "church". I hold the strong view that 2x2 teaching on Jesus is heresy and increasingly becoming so. It is not that they just refute Jesus as God (which is heresy in itself) but they bring Jesus down even further by (over) emphasising His humanity at the expense of His divinity. While there is an element of truth in this (like there is in most heresies) when you look at it in the overall sense of who Christ is, it is absolute heresy. If they teach this about Jesus they deserve the nomenclature of a sect or cult. I prefer the former. The single biggest improvement that the F&W fellowship could make is what they teach - if you can't get it right on core Christian doctrine - you have nothing. It's there, without any doubt; professing family members, and, "they deserve the nomenclature of a sect or cult". You said it. You talk about criticizing the 2x2s, that brings up a thought. You said "when I criticise 2x2 teaching and doctrine" - why is criticism so necessary? How well does it go to change others using criticism of what's perceived to be bad vs inspiration to what's good? How often did Jesus use criticism vs inspiration, and why? It should be plain to see that change through inspiration or building on what's good works way better than change through criticism. Especially criticism like "they deserve the nomenclature of a sect or cult" and "they have nothing". Inspiration rarely offends people, criticism often does. Criticism breed criticism, inspiration breeds inspiration. My challenge to you is to try inspiration, try referring to and building on what's good and see how that goes. If you had done that this discussion would not be happening, if you do it, a discussion like this will never happen again. Proofread your posts and weed out all the criticism and leave only inspiration. Be the change you want to see. If you want to reap criticism by all means criticize, if you want to reap inspiration then inspire using what's good and right. Do you know who is in Ross's family Jesse? How many brothers and sisters does he have? I have no idea, I've never met his family or read about any of the individuals on TMB. (There is a possibility I could know of them in real life, as we used to live in the same state, but would actually have no clue they are part of Ross's family if I did know them)
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2015 21:17:37 GMT -5
Mr Review you still have not answered my question, you have made a statement about what I said so can you please re-post for me. Thank you
|
|
|
Post by Jesse_Lackman on May 20, 2015 8:58:23 GMT -5
My challenge to you is to try inspiration, try referring to and building on what's good and see how that goes. If you had done that this discussion would not be happening, if you do it, a discussion like this will never happen again. Proofread your posts and weed out all the criticism and leave only inspiration. Be the change you want to see. If you want to reap criticism by all means criticize, if you want to reap inspiration then inspire using what's good and right. Thanks for your feedback. So what I'm to do is to not provide any feedback on false teaching or doctrine or criticism thereof. Ask no questions, seek no answers. Just fit in and everything will be okay. It has a familiar ring to it If we see false teaching I think we are encouraged to call it out - read what Paul said to the Galatians. I fully recognise that I speak straightly which is based on our experiences. I try and address issues, not people but realise I'm far from perfect. However, this discussion is happening because a senior worker (a leader in your church) fabricated two posts and attributed them to me. I call that behaviour deceitful and disingenuous. I don't call it inspirational! Your posts precipitated this whole discussion about your family and cults. Be that as it is, constructive criticism is an art that very few people are gifted with. Most people use criticism with all the noise and destruction of a 90 pound jackhammer. And they seem to like it. You said you helped seven people this year, how many do you suppose your cult quote offended? Seven? Seventy? Seven hundred? It's most likely a net loss. This is not the art of constructive criticism; I hold the strong view that 2x2 teaching on Jesus is heresy and increasingly becoming so. It is not that they just refute Jesus as God (which is heresy in itself) but they bring Jesus down even further by (over) emphasising His humanity at the expense of His divinity. While there is an element of truth in this (like there is in most heresies) when you look at it in the overall sense of who Christ is, it is absolute heresy. If they teach this about Jesus they deserve the nomenclature of a sect or cult. I prefer the former. The single biggest improvement that the F&W fellowship could make is what they teach - if you can't get it right on core Christian doctrine - you have nothing.
|
|