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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jan 2, 2015 18:02:18 GMT -5
Exodus Movie Review
The beautiful cinematography in this film is like a gold ring in a pig’s snout. The God of this film is not a personal God to whom Moses responds in faith and humility, but an impersonal God of vengeance who unfairly wreaks havoc on Egypt and is a killer of children. While Pharaoh is well portrayed, Moses progresses from an atheist to a cynic at odds with the God who promises to deliver his people from oppression and slavery. Moses set my teeth on edge more than once with his lack of affinity for the Hebrew people and continuing loyalties to Pharaoh, chagrined and apologetic for the actions of this vengeful God. This Moses shouts and rails against God and even claims to want nothing to do with him at times. Some historical and Biblical inaccuracies could be forgiven under the banner of literary devices, but not when pivotal parts of the story are twisted beyond recognition. While the consequences of the plagues are convincing, there is also an insidious underlying element of natural cause and effect to undermine some occurrences. Ironically, the Biblical account is so much more interesting and spectacular than the sometimes petty version presented here.
Perhaps I’m being overly harsh. Perhaps I’m expecting too much from a purely secular film. I’ll admit there are some good aspects. A militarised Moses who initially seeks to rise up an army from within the Hebrew people (think Robin Hood) is confronted by God who puts him firmly in place, and begins to act in might to accomplish what Moses could never do in his own strength. It is clear that Pharaoh sets himself up as god in opposition to the God of the Hebrews. The Passover and Angel of Death are well portrayed. At the end of the film, we see that God is in the midst of his people and continues to go with them.
Would I recommend this film to Christians? For your own spiritual benefit – probably not. Many will find it highly offensive in places. On the upside, it is likely to drive you straight back to reading your own Bible to check on the facts, which can’t be a bad thing. But I’m more concerned about non-Christians seeing it than the sensibilities of Christians being offended. I’m jealous for God and this portrayal of his Word and character to an unbelieving world. It is not a good witness. It reeks of unbelief, superstition and mysticism to an already cynical and unbelieving world, and then veers drunkenly towards anger and bitterness at God. The common sentiment of “I don’t believe in God, but I also don’t like him”.
Whether you decide to see it or not, it would be good to be prepared to answer those who have, particularly unbelieving friends and family. Start now by heading straight for your Bible and reading afresh the account of the life of Moses. This is the best and only real preparation you can have for any questions that might come your way. We must also never underestimate the power of God – what man intends for evil, he can use for good. We should and must pray that even this film may be used for the conversion of souls to true faith in Christ.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 2, 2015 21:23:23 GMT -5
Exodus Movie Review
The beautiful cinematography in this film is like a gold ring in a pig’s snout. The God of this film is not a personal God to whom Moses responds in faith and humility, but an impersonal God of vengeance who unfairly wreaks havoc on Egypt and is a killer of children--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Start now by heading straight for your Bible and reading afresh the account of the life of Moses. That is what the God of the old testament did!
He certainly did wreak havoc on Egypt and killed children!
However, I would agree with you that, "heading straight for your Bible and reading it afresh," is a good idea!
Saw a cartoon this week where a man was attempting to convert someone by offering him the Bible and saying,
"The bible will change your life, Sir!"
The other man said,
"Oh it has! It made me an atheist!"
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jan 2, 2015 22:46:03 GMT -5
Exodus Movie Review
The beautiful cinematography in this film is like a gold ring in a pig’s snout. The God of this film is not a personal God to whom Moses responds in faith and humility, but an impersonal God of vengeance who unfairly wreaks havoc on Egypt and is a killer of children--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Start now by heading straight for your Bible and reading afresh the account of the life of Moses. That is what the God of the old testament did!
He certainly did wreak havoc on Egypt and killed children!
However, I would agree with you that, "heading straight for your Bible and reading it afresh," is a good idea!
Saw a cartoon this week where a man was attempting to convert someone by offering him the Bible and saying,
"The bible will change your life, Sir!"
The other man said,
"Oh it has! It made me an atheist!"
Pharaoh, on the other hand didn't deserve any judgement from God. He was such a good guy, enslaving and oppressing a people for several hundred years, constantly making working conditions harder and killing all Hebrew boy babies. The movie was a tad one-sided to have Pharaoh angrily accusing God of killing children, given that he had indulged in wholesale slaughter of all male babies for sometime.
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Post by Lee on Jan 5, 2015 21:41:59 GMT -5
I was going to go to the movie three weeks ago but Glenn Beck was talking about it on his show the same evening I was gonna watch it and he talked me out of seeing it for the same reasons you sited.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 14, 2015 7:09:00 GMT -5
That is what the God of the old testament did!
He certainly did wreak havoc on Egypt and killed children!
However, I would agree with you that, "heading straight for your Bible and reading it afresh," is a good idea!
Saw a cartoon this week where a man was attempting to convert someone by offering him the Bible and saying,
"The bible will change your life, Sir!"
The other man said,
"Oh it has! It made me an atheist!"
Pharaoh, on the other hand didn't deserve any judgement from God. He was such a good guy, enslaving and oppressing a people for several hundred years, constantly making working conditions harder and killing all Hebrew boy babies. The movie was a tad one-sided to have Pharaoh angrily accusing God of killing children, given that he had indulged in wholesale slaughter of all male babies for sometime. Ah, and the god of the OT told Samuel to tell Saul to smite all of Amalek...."kill both man & woman, infant and suckling.... Sam. 15: 1-4And, Numbers 31:17-18 where Moses said, 1 7 "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
I notice that you say you have a "meeting in the home". Every Sunday morning To study the Bible.
Do you ever study those parts of the bible?
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Post by Lee on Jan 15, 2015 3:21:07 GMT -5
The Jews will do what it takes to preserve their nation and when they don't, God will.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 15, 2015 5:14:20 GMT -5
Pharaoh, on the other hand didn't deserve any judgement from God. He was such a good guy, enslaving and oppressing a people for several hundred years, constantly making working conditions harder and killing all Hebrew boy babies. The movie was a tad one-sided to have Pharaoh angrily accusing God of killing children, given that he had indulged in wholesale slaughter of all male babies for sometime. Ah, and the god of the OT told Samuel to tell Saul to smite all of Amalek...."kill both man & woman, infant and suckling.... Sam. 15: 1-4And, Numbers 31:17-18 where Moses said, 1 7 "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
I notice that you say you have a "meeting in the home". Every Sunday morning To study the Bible.
Do you ever study those parts of the bible?
Pharaoh, on the other hand didn't deserve any judgement from God. He was such a good guy, enslaving and oppressing a people for several hundred years, constantly making working conditions harder and killing all Hebrew boy babies. The movie was a tad one-sided to have Pharaoh angrily accusing God of killing children, given that he had indulged in wholesale slaughter of all male babies for sometime. Ah, and the god of the OT told Samuel to tell Saul to smite all of Amalek...."kill both man & woman, infant and suckling.... Sam. 15: 1-4And, Numbers 31:17-18 where Moses said, 1 7 "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
I notice that you say you have a "meeting in the home". Every Sunday morning To study the Bible.
Do you ever study those parts of the bible?
Elizabeth, Thank you for your comments but I notice that you haven't answered yet as to whether you ever study those verses at the meeting in your home where you have Sunday morning bible study.
Perhaps my post got lost. Here they are again.
Sam. 15: 1-4 "kill both man & woman, infant and suckling....
Numbers 31:17-18 "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jan 15, 2015 7:31:57 GMT -5
I hadn't noticed your post, I was offline! Have we studied this particular passage on a Sunday morning? - not recently. I don't specifically remember discussing it, but we do work through one book of the Bible at a time, and don't miss any passages when we do.
There are a lot of similar passages in the Old Testament, and some of them are quite disturbing reading, and hard to understand. I don't pretend to know the Lord's ways in all of this, except that the general principle is always the same - those who draw people away from God to false gods, bring judgement upon themselves, and destruction. Yes, God will destroy the enemies of his people. That's why it's good to be on his side.
Is this unfair? You'll have the opportunity to argue the point with God for yourself at some stage, I dare say.
If God is the creator and giver of life, then all life belongs to him. It is his choice to give it, and to take it away. You may argue the point extensively, but in the end you will not prevent your own death by claiming God has no right to end your life. He will.
As horrible as these stories are, they are horrible because we see them happening in the world we know. We forget there is a world to come, in which the same thing will happen to all who have rejected God and don't want anything to do with him.
Can I go back to the Exodus/Egypt account for a moment? In the film (I don't know if you've seen it), Pharaoh accuses Moses that his god "is a killer of children". Yes, God took all their lives. But how? How did they actually die? If you were a medical examiner, what would you have put on the death certificate? Is this a true story, or is it fictional? If it is true, then all life really does belong to God. If it is fictional, then there's nothing to worry about, and you don't need to be disturbed by it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 11:03:00 GMT -5
Recognizing that to those who post as if they know it all, and have no need of any God, that what I believe they consider inferior to what they believe, I prefer to make this comment anyway. What if?
Yes, what if? Not "What if there is no God," rather, what if there IS a God, and so superior to puny men and women, that we are indeed as "worms" in the sight of such a God? What if there is an enemy of the souls of men and women, who IS able to deceive them almost at his will, and what if those who went with him were able to inter-breed with humans, so that indeed, such human life had been corrupted and thus of absolutely no value to that "obviously non-existent God."
No more unreasonable to me than denying the existence of such a supreme being. Both are "what if" conditions to me. People are free to chose what to believe: what they will (or won't.) It is only a matter of choice for a few short years anyway. My lifetime has passed like a flash of inconsequential nothingness, and all anyone has to prepare for any future awareness is simply by what they do, or do not believe. Nothing new there, so I chose to believe as another expressed so simply so very long ago, "as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
Now, it is likely way past time for me to leave such discourse to those who quite obviously believe themselves so very much more intelligent, reasonable, logical and thus superior in every way to myself.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 15, 2015 17:04:40 GMT -5
I hadn't noticed your post, I was offline! Have we studied this particular passage on a Sunday morning? - not recently. I don't specifically remember discussing it, but we do work through one book of the Bible at a time, and don't miss any passages when we do. There are a lot of similar passages in the Old Testament, and some of them are quite disturbing reading, and hard to understand. I don't pretend to know the Lord's ways in all of this, except that the general principle is always the same - those who draw people away from God to false gods, bring judgement upon themselves, and destruction. Yes, God will destroy the enemies of his people. That's why it's good to be on his side.
Is this unfair? You'll have the opportunity to argue the point with God for yourself at some stage, I dare say.
If God is the creator and giver of life, then all life belongs to him. It is his choice to give it, and to take it away. You may argue the point extensively, but in the end you will not prevent your own death by claiming God has no right to end your life. He will. As horrible as these stories are, they are horrible because we see them happening in the world we know. We forget there is a world to come, in which the same thing will happen to all who have rejected God and don't want anything to do with him. Can I go back to the Exodus/Egypt account for a moment? In the film (I don't know if you've seen it), Pharaoh accuses Moses that his god "is a killer of children". Yes, God took all their lives. But how? How did they actually die? If you were a medical examiner, what would you have put on the death certificate? Is this a true story, or is it fictional? If it is true, then all life really does belong to God. If it is fictional, then there's nothing to worry about, and you don't need to be disturbed by it. I should have expected it.
It is after all, it is the usual apologetic rationalzation that I have heard so many times from Christians in an attempt to explain away the horrors that their god perpetuated on people, innocent children as well.
I have wondered how that "suckling child" even knew about any god, false god, or otherwise, -yet god ordered the destruction of all of them.
This statement of yours was new a twist that I hadn't heard before. "If you were a medical examiner, what would you have put on the death certificate? "
I don't see how that statement is even relevant to the topic . It seems that those who believe their god acted was His Right are getting more desperate in their attempts at apologies.
Of course, the usual statement was made, "You'll have the opportunity to argue the point with God."
It doesn't matter whether it is a true story, or fiction.
As long as people believe that it is a true story & their god is right in acting in that way, they will do the same as they did in the OT and actually have done in recent times for the same reasons.
They did the same in the Kosovo/ Serbia conflict in our own times.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 15, 2015 17:15:29 GMT -5
Recognizing that to those who post as if they know it all, and have no need of any God, that what I believe they consider inferior to what they believe, I prefer to make this comment anyway. What if?
Yes, what if? Not "What if there is no God," rather, what if there IS a God, and so superior to puny men and women, that we are indeed as "worms" in the sight of such a God? What if there is an enemy of the souls of men and women, who IS able to deceive them almost at his will, and what if those who went with him were able to inter-breed with humans, so that indeed, such human life had been corrupted and thus of absolutely no value to that "obviously non-existent God."
No more unreasonable to me than denying the existence of such a supreme being. Both are "what if" conditions to me. People are free to chose what to believe: what they will (or won't.) It is only a matter of choice for a few short years anyway. My lifetime has passed like a flash of inconsequential nothingness, and all anyone has to prepare for any future awareness is simply by what they do, or do not believe. Nothing new there, so I chose to believe as another expressed so simply so very long ago, "as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
Now, it is likely way past time for me to leave such discourse to those who quite obviously believe themselves so very much more intelligent, reasonable, logical and thus superior in every way to myself. Oh Dennis, you are at your old tactics again!
Just because some of us see things differently, why do you want to think that we "obviously believe themselves so very much more intelligent, reasonable, logical and thus superior in every way to myself?"
Baloney! We are just expressing ourselves as you do
Do you see me crying in my beer just because someone doesn't agree with me?
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jan 17, 2015 8:17:45 GMT -5
I should have expected it. It is after all, it is the usual apologetic rationalzation that I have heard so many times from Christians in an attempt to explain away the horrors that their god perpetuated on people, innocent children as well.
I don't think that God wants, or needs, me to apologise for him.
I have wondered how that "suckling child" even knew about any god, false god, or otherwise, -yet god ordered the destruction of all of them.
I can understand the sentiment of "unfairness" here, but it presupposes that everyone has a right to live a certain number of years. Do they? Who gives this right?
This statement of yours was new a twist that I hadn't heard before. "If you were a medical examiner, what would you have put on the death certificate? "
I don't see how that statement is even relevant to the topic . It seems that those who believe their god acted was His Right are getting more desperate in their attempts at apologies.
My point is this - if the Egypt story is true, there is no human cause of death. You cannot say that "Moses acted on his own belief and slaughtered them", because their lives were taken away supernaturally. All in Egypt knew it was by the God of the Hebrews. Who has such power, except he to whom such power belongs?
Of course, the usual statement was made, "You'll have the opportunity to argue the point with God."
It doesn't matter whether it is a true story, or fiction.
I don't think you really think this. Of course it matters whether something is true or not. I believe the biblical historical accounts to be true. You lead me to believe you don't. Whatever you or I BELIEVE, the truth still remains. One of us is wrong. Truth is still truth, regardless of what you or I believe. For that, we need to keep looking at historical evidence.
As long as people believe that it is a true story & their god is right in acting in that way, they will do the same as they did in the OT and actually have done in recent times for the same reasons.
The did the same in the Kosovo/ Serbia conflict in our own times.
I take your point here. Belief can be a terribly dangerous thing, and is used to justify many evils. But no, I will not do as they did in the OT. It was a different time, under a different covenant. A time of direct revelation from God, accompanied by powerful manifestations of his actions, using the people of Israel as an analogy in many ways. The New Testament clearly reveals a new time, a new covenant, where Jesus is the final revelation. I know you don't like what I believe, but that's not the point. The real point is - is any of it true? If not, which bit? How do you know? I know this is all broad sweeping statement, but for me it always comes back to the historical Christ. He lived. He was crucified. He was raised again. You might not believe it or want to believe it, but the evidence is compelling (check it out!). He performed amazing miracles. He claimed to be God. Of all the people on earth who have claimed to be prophets or someone special, I think we all have to agree that Jesus is pretty unique. Put it all together, and I think he's someone we ignore at our own peril.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 21, 2015 0:16:35 GMT -5
Elizabeth Your account of the Exodus was beautifully and well written. I saw the movie last week. I certainly didnt observe all that you did. t I get too sidetracked with costumes, scenery etc
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 22, 2015 14:19:18 GMT -5
It is after all, it is the usual apologetic rationalzation that I have heard so many times from Christians in an attempt to explain away the horrors that their god perpetuated on people, innocent children as well.
I don't think that God wants, or needs, me to apologise for him.
I have wondered how that "suckling child" even knew about any god, false god, or otherwise, -yet god ordered the destruction of all of them.
I can understand the sentiment of "unfairness" here, but it presupposes that everyone has a right to live a certain number of years. Do they? Who gives this right?
This statement of yours was new a twist that I hadn't heard before. "If you were a medical examiner, what would you have put on the death certificate? "
I don't see how that statement is even relevant to the topic . It seems that those who believe their god acted was His Right are getting more desperate in their attempts at apologies.
My point is this - if the Egypt story is true, there is no human cause of death. You cannot say that "Moses acted on his own belief and slaughtered them", because their lives were taken away supernaturally. All in Egypt knew it was by the God of the Hebrews. Who has such power, except he to whom such power belongs?
Of course, the usual statement was made, "You'll have the opportunity to argue the point with God."
It doesn't matter whether it is a true story, or fiction.
I don't think you really think this. Of course it matters whether something is true or not. I believe the biblical historical accounts to be true. You lead me to believe you don't. Whatever you or I BELIEVE, the truth still remains. One of us is wrong. Truth is still truth, regardless of what you or I believe. For that, we need to keep looking at historical evidence.
As long as people believe that it is a true story & their god is right in acting in that way, they will do the same as they did in the OT and actually have done in recent times for the same reasons.
The did the same in the Kosovo/ Serbia conflict in our own times.
I take your point here. Belief can be a terribly dangerous thing, and is used to justify many evils. But no, I will not do as they did in the OT It was a different time, under a different covenant. A time of direct revelation from God, accompanied by powerful manifestations of his actions, using the people of Israel as an analogy in many ways. The New Testament clearly reveals a new time, a new covenant, where Jesus is the final revelation. I know you don't like what I believe, but that's not the point. The real point is - is any of it true? If not, which bit? How do you know? I know this is all broad sweeping statement, but for me it always comes back to the historical Christ. He lived. He was crucified. He was raised again. You might not believe it or want to believe it, but the evidence is compelling (check it out!).
He performed amazing miracles. He claimed to be God. Of all the people on earth who have claimed to be prophets or someone special, I think we all have to agree that Jesus is pretty unique. Put it all together, and I think he's someone we ignore at our own peril. What Do you mean that you "wouldn't do as they did in the OT?" Do you mean that you would defy god & not do as he ordered? It Shouldn't matter at what time in history that it occurred. Suppose a time would come in the future and "God" would tell people to do the same, -would you?
It isn't a question of my liking or NOT liking, or wanting or NOT wanting to believe. It is whether such an action was ethical, -that it was morally correct to kill everyone, -even children.
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Post by faune on Apr 25, 2015 3:08:13 GMT -5
Elizabeth Your account of the Exodus was beautifully and well written. I saw the movie last week. I certainly didnt observe all that you did. t I get too sidetracked with costumes, scenery etc Bubbles ~ Ditto! I also saw the movie and liked it and felt it was well done for a Hollywood movie with all of the special effects, but didn't observe all the details that Elizabeth noted. Actually, I liked it better than the movie called "Noah," which left me disappointed half way through the movie.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 2, 2015 5:55:47 GMT -5
What Do you mean that you "wouldn't do as they did in the OT?" Do you mean that you would defy god & not do as he ordered? It Shouldn't matter at what time in history that it occurred. Suppose a time would come in the future and "God" would tell people to do the same, -would you?
It isn't a question of my liking or NOT liking, or wanting or NOT wanting to believe. It is whether such an action was ethical, -that it was morally correct to kill everyone, -even children.
Hi Dmmichgood, Would I defy "god" and not do as he ordered? If "god" were to order me to kill someone now, under what guise would this come? Nothing in the commandments of Jesus indicate that this is a likelihood or even possibility. It is not foretold or prophesied in any way, that Christians will end up going on a rampage because God wants them to. However, it is foretold that the persecution and martyrdom of Christians will increase. I do not believe that there is any Biblical mandate whatsoever to suggest that at this time and stage in history, God will order me to kill people. According to the Bible, the canon of scripture is closed and cannot be added to. We await the fulfilling of the prophecies already given, and the return of Christ. Of course it's a matter of what you like or don't like, or believe or don't believe. What YOU believe is moral and ethical is what you believe to be so. Otherwise, what, exactly, is your objective standard? Where is the list that you adhere to, if not just your own beliefs?
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Post by snow on May 2, 2015 10:19:44 GMT -5
Elizabeth, it's always 'just your own beliefs'. There isn't anything else. What you believe might be based on an old book, but it is still 'just your own beliefs'. There isn't one person who thinks the same about that book, interprets that book exactly the same as the next person etc. So Christians aren't any different in that way than atheists. You just choose to believe that the Bible is right.
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Post by xna on May 2, 2015 11:43:10 GMT -5
A short answer to the question Where do we get our morals without god? full text here kidswithoutgod.com/teens/ask/where-do-atheists-get-their-morality/“Western morality began with the enlightenment about 500 years ago. The enlightenment was the first time that Europeans started separating religion from morality. Through the last few centuries, Western Civilization has developed a code of morality that is not dependent on any religion, from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to the United Nations Charter, to the International Court of Justice, The Geneva Convention on War, and much more. These institutions and laws make no reference to gods or religion and are often agreed to by countries whose citizens have radically different religions. Here is something to consider. No major religion on earth condemned slavery until the enlightenment came along to condemn it. All the major religions claim that women are inferior to men. None thought that women had a role to play in political life and rarely in religious life. Most churches still believe that only men may lead. Many major religions espoused “Peace on Earth” but were quick to start huge devastating Crusades against one another. Christians who espoused Christian morality in the 1500’s spent decades killing one another across Europe in the 30 years war. Millions died in the name of a god. Not much morality there. Where do we get our morality? From the constant development of our culture. From the evolution of laws and guidelines that help us create a peaceful and prosperous society. We are who create our morality and we pass it down to our children and grandchildren. That is why Muslim people can live prosperously in the US along side Baptists, Mormons, Hindus and Atheists. We have a morality that supersedes all religions and is beholden to none.”
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Post by dmmichgood on May 2, 2015 15:31:23 GMT -5
Hi Dmmichgood, Would I defy "god" and not do as he ordered? 2) If "god" were to order me to kill someone now, under what guise would this come? Nothing in the commandments of Jesus indicate that this is a likelihood or even possibility.
It is not foretold or prophesied in any way, that Christians will end up going on a rampage because God wants them to. However, it is foretold that the persecution and martyrdom of Christians will increase. I do not believe that there is any Biblical mandate whatsoever to suggest that at this time and stage in history, God will order me to kill people. According to the Bible, the canon of scripture is closed and cannot be added to. We await the fulfilling of the prophecies already given, and the return of Christ. 1) Of course it's a matter of what you like or don't like, or believe or don't believe. What YOU believe is moral and ethical is what you believe to be so. Otherwise, what, exactly, is your objective standard? Where is the list that you adhere to, if not just your own beliefs?
Xna and snow has stated it much better than I can, so I will say only a few things.
1) it's NOT a matter of what I like or don't like.
There is NO list I "adhere" to, it is quite simple really. I try to treat others as I would want to be treated.
That has been a universal basis of ethics long before Jesus stated it .
2) Even if, as you say, there is "nothing in the commandments of Jesus indicate that this is a likelihood or even possibility where you would be ordered to kill someone," do you really believe that EVERYTHING Jesus said can be depended on?
Remember Jesus also said , “Truly, I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Those people "standing there" have long ago been dead & Jesus has NOT come back.
No doubt the early Jesus followers believed that indeed Jesus was coming back as he promised, and that is the reason why in those early days they lived in this manner: "All the believers were together and had everything in common." "They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need."
They felt no need to save & prepare for the future, because there wouldn't be a future! Jesus was coming back for them!
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Post by xna on May 2, 2015 16:29:08 GMT -5
As far as I can tell all holy books have been written by men not a god. Today man can encode the entire bible in a single cell. You would think god would take up writing.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 22:54:35 GMT -5
As far as I can tell all holy books have been written by men not a god. Today man can encode the entire bible in a single cell. You would think god would take up writing. that's because God wants witnesses to write things down and preserve it for mankind about him a biography if you will...however he did write twice the 10 commandments...
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Post by dmmichgood on May 2, 2015 23:49:43 GMT -5
As far as I can tell all holy books have been written by men not a god. Today man can encode the entire bible in a single cell. You would think god would take up writing. that's because God wants witnesses to write things down and preserve it for mankind about him a biography if you will...however he did write twice the 10 commandments... Wonder why god, HE/SHE, needed to have so many different biographies written since there are so many different Holy books?
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Post by snow on May 3, 2015 0:20:31 GMT -5
that's because God wants witnesses to write things down and preserve it for mankind about him a biography if you will...however he did write twice the 10 commandments... Wonder why god, HE/SHE, needed to have so many different biographies written since there are so many different Holy books?
maybe God is a multiple personality?
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Post by xna on May 3, 2015 9:47:46 GMT -5
As far as I can tell all holy books have been written by men not a god. Today man can encode the entire bible in a single cell. You would think god would take up writing. that's because God wants witnesses to write things down and preserve it for mankind about him a biography if you will...however he did write twice the 10 commandments... As the tale goes, Moses smashed the tables of stone, and God said he'd make a new set of tables containing "the words that were on the first" (Exodus 34:1). However, the second Ten Commandments in no way resemble the first set. I never heard that preach on
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Post by CherieKropp on May 3, 2015 13:45:06 GMT -5
I disagree - the commands are very close IMO. However, there are small extra explanations in one that isnt in the other.
Wiki: According to Jewish tradition, Exodus 20:1–17 constitutes God's first recitation and inscription of the ten commandments on the two tablets,[13] which Moses broke in anger of his rebellious nation, and later rewritten on replacement stones and placed in the ark of the covenant;[14] and Deuteronomy 5:4–20 consists of God's re-telling of the Ten Commandments to the younger generation who were to enter the Promised Land. The passages in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 contain more than ten imperative statements, totalling 14 or 15 in all.
Exodus 20:1-17 (KJV)
20 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. Deuteronomy 5:4-20 (KJV) 4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire, 5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying, 6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me. 8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: 9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, 10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments. 11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. 16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 17 Thou shalt not kill. 18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery. 19 Neither shalt thou steal. 20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
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Post by xna on May 3, 2015 16:57:18 GMT -5
I disagree - the commands are very close IMO. However, there are small extra explanations in one that isnt in the other.... Should have said 1st & 3rd, not 1st &. 2nd.
I agree, 10 commandments version #1, and 10 commandments version #2 are similar Exodus 20:2-17 & Deuteronomy 5:6-21. but 10 commandments version #3 Exodus 34:12-26 is very different, and is the only one which the Bible refers to as "the Ten Commandments". 3rd version of the 10 Commandments Exodus 34:12-26 12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice; 16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
17 Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
19 All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
23 Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.
24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the Lord thy God thrice in the year.
25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk. 27 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28 And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.Further, depending on whether you are Jewish, Roman Catholic, or Protestant, the numbering sequence of the Commandments varies. Further, when Jesus instructing someone to follow the commandments he, only listed 5 or 6 of them, depending whether you believe Luke (18:20) or Mark (10:19) and Matthew (19:18-19), respectivelyrationalwiki.org/wiki/Ten_commandments#Which_Ten_Commandments.3FAttachments:
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Post by Gene on May 3, 2015 18:12:46 GMT -5
As far as I can tell all holy books have been written by men not a god. Today man can encode the entire bible in a single cell. You would think god would take up writing. that's because God wants witnesses to write things down and preserve it for mankind about him a biography if you will...however he did write twice the 10 commandments... I thought God wrote them the first time, but the second time, Moses had to chisel them out.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 3, 2015 18:48:56 GMT -5
that's because God wants witnesses to write things down and preserve it for mankind about him a biography if you will...however he did write twice the 10 commandments... I thought God wrote them the first time, but the second time, Moses had to chisel them out. Poor Moses, all that hard work! -That is what happens when you have a temper tantrum & go & destroy the originals!
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