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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 17, 2014 22:43:47 GMT -5
As one friend put it, "The issue now should be the LIMITS to multi-culturalism." Just how would you LIMIT multi-culturalism?
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 17, 2014 23:02:13 GMT -5
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kanwar actually credits German Chancellor Angela Merkel for being among the first of the world's democratic leaders to take the courageous step in October to say that official multiculturalism had "failed totally.." It appears leaders are getting bolder. During an interview with TFI channel, then French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared: "We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him." Cameron ended his speech by saying: "At stake are not just lives, it's our way of life.That's why this is a challenge we cannot avoid - and one we must meet." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- German Chancellor Angela Merkel also said this : "Dr Merkel spoke a week after talks with the Turkish Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in which they pledged to do more to improve the poor integration record of Germany's 2.5-million-strong Turkish community.ore to improve the poor integration record of Germany's 2.5-million-strong Turkish community."
Of course, everything could easily be taken care of if everyone would just adhere to your tag line Mr. Tell:
"If you are not a Christian, you are part of the anti-Christ “ --Adrian Rogers
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 17, 2014 23:16:44 GMT -5
As one friend put it, "The issue now should be the LIMITS to multi-culturalism." Just how would you LIMIT multi-culturalism?Multi-culturalism is includes such things as recognition of religious holy days (not necessarily as public holidays), ethnic celebrations, ethnic institutions, etc. Importantly, such groups have to have the equivalent public/government support ... proportionately, undoubtedly. There are all kinds of cultural events that are attended by English speaking people only -- Jewish, Scottish, Irish, even Italian, Greek, etc. Ethnic groups coming to N. America normally lose their languages in 2 generations, but they celebrate their cultures for many generations. Saint-Patrick's day parade in New York. Octoberfest in Milwaukee ... if they have such a thing. On the other hand, official languages, as in Canada, are not distinctly separated by cultural differences -- e.g. English-speaking Canadians have no recognizable differences from French-speaking Canadians on the street or in the workplace. I suspect the same is true in a country like South Africa between Africaans and English-speaking people.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 17, 2014 23:21:49 GMT -5
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kanwar actually credits German Chancellor Angela Merkel for being among the first of the world's democratic leaders to take the courageous step in October to say that official multiculturalism had "failed totally.." It appears leaders are getting bolder. During an interview with TFI channel, then French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared: "We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him." Cameron ended his speech by saying: "At stake are not just lives, it's our way of life.That's why this is a challenge we cannot avoid - and one we must meet." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- German Chancellor Angela Merkel also said this : "Dr Merkel spoke a week after talks with the Turkish Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in which they pledged to do more to improve the poor integration record of Germany's 2.5-million-strong Turkish community.ore to improve the poor integration record of Germany's 2.5-million-strong Turkish community."
Of course, everything could easily be taken care of if everyone would just adhere to your tag line Mr. Tell:
"If you are not a Christian, you are part of the anti-Christ “ --Adrian Rogers
I don't know the precise laws in each of the European states, but some of them (I think Germany is one) does not allow citizens of other countries to become citizens of Germany if they do not have any German ancestry. Of course, there is a de facto similar process carried on in the USA as well.
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Post by fixit on Nov 18, 2014 0:42:23 GMT -5
I don't know the precise laws in each of the European states, but some of them (I think Germany is one) does not allow citizens of other countries to become citizens of Germany if they do not have any German ancestry. Of course, there is a de facto similar process carried on in the USA as well.
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Post by fixit on Nov 18, 2014 0:46:40 GMT -5
Of course, everything could easily be taken care of if everyone would just adhere to your tag line Mr. Tell "If you are not a Christian, you are part of the anti-Christ “ --Adrian Rogers Or even if everyone would accept secular government.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 1:31:50 GMT -5
As one friend put it, "The issue now should be the LIMITS to multi-culturalism." Just how would you LIMIT multi-culturalism? By defining its boundaries. All causes should have boundaries, otherwise they can trend into extremism. Old saying, "Governments fall by the excesses of their principles." Boundaries can be, for example - a Muslim can have a "prayer room" and wear their religious garments, but they can't impose Sharia on everyone else, or even their own. That's a boundary. And with NO boundary such groups simply impose their will on their host society. And next they are wondering why their new country isn't much better than the one they left.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 4:22:48 GMT -5
Another reminder of my infertile brain. I meant Jimmy! Billy didn't invade North America until much later. Ah, don't worry about your brain. The events I was talking about are not given much attention in history books, and when they are they are pretty skewed when you know the real case. The World Book Encyclopedia describes the removal of French-speaking people as something like a migration, and I don't know what is in the books in Canada about it. But until I was 40 years old I spent all my adult life working in French, and in the French-Canadian culture. Quebec (city) is 98% French-speaking, the oldest European city in North America, the only walled city in North America, and an international historic site. Some houses built in 1605 still are occupied. A wonderful city to live in. I have a (Scottish) friend who has stayed in France for many years. He tells me that many French people are emigrating to Quebec because they see France is no longer French (immigration/Islam, etc). They see Quebec as being more like the France they knew and desire.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 4:59:54 GMT -5
Does multiculturalism render the old idiom " when in Rome do as the Romans do" nul and void- obsolete?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 18, 2014 18:19:32 GMT -5
Ah, don't worry about your brain. The events I was talking about are not given much attention in history books, and when they are they are pretty skewed when you know the real case. The World Book Encyclopedia describes the removal of French-speaking people as something like a migration, and I don't know what is in the books in Canada about it. But until I was 40 years old I spent all my adult life working in French, and in the French-Canadian culture. Quebec (city) is 98% French-speaking, the oldest European city in North America, the only walled city in North America, and an international historic site. Some houses built in 1605 still are occupied. A wonderful city to live in. I have a (Scottish) friend who has stayed in France for many years. He tells me that many French people are emigrating to Quebec because they see France is no longer French (immigration/Islam, etc). They see Quebec as being more like the France they knew and desire. Sounds like the kind of people that the Québécois and Acadiens find SO condescending and annoying.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 18, 2014 18:33:23 GMT -5
Just how would you LIMIT multi-culturalism? By defining its boundaries. All causes should have boundaries, otherwise they can trend into extremism. Old saying, "Governments fall by the excesses of their principles." Boundaries can be, for example - a Muslim can have a "prayer room" and wear their religious garments, but they can't impose Sharia on everyone else, or even their own. That's a boundary. And with NO boundary such groups simply impose their will on their host society. And next they are wondering why their new country isn't much better than the one they left.How do you put boundaries on culture? You folks are making multiculturalism sound like it is some kind of government mandated policy .. which doesn't even make any sense. If a government lists all the aspects (beliefs, tastes, languages, styles, family customs, passtimes, artistic pursuits) of its preferred culture, builds a 20 foot high wall around the country, prevents anyone who isn't in full agreement with the tenets of the culture from entering the country, and forces the list of cultural aspects on everyone, then they will have a monocultural society. e.g. North Korea. Otherwise you are going to have multiculturalism. What people don't like about multiculturalism is that it expects everyone to "love they neighbor as thyself".
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 18, 2014 18:39:23 GMT -5
Does multiculturalism render the old idiom " when in Rome do as the Romans do" nul and void- obsolete? Not really. Rome and the Roman Empire were as multicultural as any large cosmopolitan city today. And by coincidence, Christians pride themselves on being some of the greatest annoyances to the Empire.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 18, 2014 20:46:27 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Nov 18, 2014 21:19:31 GMT -5
Do Christians cut off heads, in the 21st century?
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Post by Mary on Nov 18, 2014 21:27:43 GMT -5
Some people obviously would have no problem with sharia law taking over their country. Cutting heads off is the way they are doing it. I know which I prefer.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 18, 2014 23:23:39 GMT -5
Do Christians cut off heads, in the 21st century? I wasn't talking about terrorists or cutting off heads. I'm referring to the ATTUTUDES of RELIGIOUS people concerning civil law like churches . I was believing they were above secular law. A lot of people in this thread have suggested that there is something about civilized Muslims that need to be outlawed in our society. But since you mentioned it, it just happens that defying civil law (as this Christian church believes) is also a tactic of terroritsts - NO MATTER WHAT LAW THEY'RE BREAKING.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 18, 2014 23:25:05 GMT -5
Some people obviously would have no problem with sharia law taking over their country. Cutting heads off is the way they are doing it. I know which I prefer. So what non-sharia people are cutting off heads these days? The British and French stopped doing it more than a century ago, I think.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 5:12:54 GMT -5
I have a (Scottish) friend who has stayed in France for many years. He tells me that many French people are emigrating to Quebec because they see France is no longer French (immigration/Islam, etc). They see Quebec as being more like the France they knew and desire. Sounds like the kind of people that the Québécois and Acadiens find SO condescending and annoying. No doubt they want to turn Quebec into the France they crave after?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 19, 2014 12:28:59 GMT -5
Sounds like the kind of people that the Québécois and Acadiens find SO condescending and annoying. No doubt they want to turn Quebec into the France they crave after? Maybe they do, but they're going to be badly disappointed with Montreal. It's more culturally diverse than Paris.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 12:09:46 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 22, 2014 20:12:18 GMT -5
No, I don't mean anything resembling this. FWIW, this news item is not about France or anything that is happening in France -- in fact, it's indicating that Muslims in France are NOT supporting the jihadists. Ironically, this should make the French in France feel more comfortable, since their home born jihadists are off crusading somewhere else. What I find somewhat cowardly about this demonstration that they're not doing it in France or anywhere near any French government establishment ... which means the statement they're wanting to make is to scare the rest of the world with some display of ISIS power. The other interesting thing about this situation is that the ones burning their passports are not normally immigrants in France -- they're natural born citizens who have EMMIGRATED. Let them go. Burning passports is not about racism -- it is a protest by free people against a government ... in other words, to make a political statement. Americans (WASP Americans especially) have done this right here in the US to make statements. Some people disapproved of the practice -- for strictly political reasons. The political statement these guys are making is more about ISIS than about the French government. Burning passports, when it is specifically about race, has something to do with anti-multicultural government policies or activities. Westerners applauded the Asians in South Africa when they all burned their "government documents" in protest against the South African government. Slaves in the US never got to burn passports because they were property, not people. Remember when the high-strung Muslims went berserk about the cartoon about Muhammad. These guys are doing the same with everyone terrified of Islam. They're enjoying nothing more than pulling their strings. Seriously, is burning a passport an act of war against anyone/anything. The Muslims in Israel are not burning their passports -- there's a reason why.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 4:47:54 GMT -5
No, I don't mean anything resembling this. FWIW, this news item is not about France or anything that is happening in France -- in fact, it's indicating that Muslims in France are NOT supporting the jihadists. Ironically, this should make the French in France feel more comfortable, since their home born jihadists are off crusading somewhere else. What I find somewhat cowardly about this demonstration that they're not doing it in France or anywhere near any French government establishment ... which means the statement they're wanting to make is to scare the rest of the world with some display of ISIS power. The other interesting thing about this situation is that the ones burning their passports are not normally immigrants in France -- they're natural born citizens who have EMMIGRATED. Let them go. Burning passports is not about racism -- it is a protest by free people against a government ... in other words, to make a political statement. Americans (WASP Americans especially) have done this right here in the US to make statements. Some people disapproved of the practice -- for strictly political reasons. The political statement these guys are making is more about ISIS than about the French government. Burning passports, when it is specifically about race, has something to do with anti-multicultural government policies or activities. Westerners applauded the Asians in South Africa when they all burned their "government documents" in protest against the South African government. Slaves in the US never got to burn passports because they were property, not people. Remember when the high-strung Muslims went berserk about the cartoon about Muhammad. These guys are doing the same with everyone terrified of Islam. They're enjoying nothing more than pulling their strings. Seriously, is burning a passport an act of war against anyone/anything. The Muslims in Israel are not burning their passports -- there's a reason why. Yes Bob, but the perceptions, fears and associated mentality is rife in France. Also the French themselves are more racist than say the Brits. For many, France is no longer France any more.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 23, 2014 15:52:38 GMT -5
No, I don't mean anything resembling this. FWIW, this news item is not about France or anything that is happening in France -- in fact, it's indicating that Muslims in France are NOT supporting the jihadists. Ironically, this should make the French in France feel more comfortable, since their home born jihadists are off crusading somewhere else. What I find somewhat cowardly about this demonstration that they're not doing it in France or anywhere near any French government establishment ... which means the statement they're wanting to make is to scare the rest of the world with some display of ISIS power. The other interesting thing about this situation is that the ones burning their passports are not normally immigrants in France -- they're natural born citizens who have EMMIGRATED. Let them go. Burning passports is not about racism -- it is a protest by free people against a government ... in other words, to make a political statement. Americans (WASP Americans especially) have done this right here in the US to make statements. Some people disapproved of the practice -- for strictly political reasons. The political statement these guys are making is more about ISIS than about the French government. Burning passports, when it is specifically about race, has something to do with anti-multicultural government policies or activities. Westerners applauded the Asians in South Africa when they all burned their "government documents" in protest against the South African government. Slaves in the US never got to burn passports because they were property, not people. Remember when the high-strung Muslims went berserk about the cartoon about Muhammad. These guys are doing the same with everyone terrified of Islam. They're enjoying nothing more than pulling their strings. Seriously, is burning a passport an act of war against anyone/anything. The Muslims in Israel are not burning their passports -- there's a reason why. Yes Bob, but the perceptions, fears and associated mentality is rife in France. Also the French themselves are more racist than say the Brits. For many, France is no longer France any more. And the same perceptions, fears and associated mentality is rife in the USA. America is not for Americans any more -- sharia law is taking over -- poor pitiful us, no one likes us and the liberals are destroying our world. Because a country has millions of racist people doesn't change the definition of what the country is -- it's just time to face the history of their own nation. The present president of France is of Dutch descent -- his name. The last president of France was of, what was it, Polish descent. One of their presidents had a clearly Irish surname. The Gauls were taken over by the Franks, and Germany was taken over by the Jews, and the US is being taken over by the Muslims, and -- England was taken over by the Germans, and the Indians came to stay, and France incorporated German territory because it won the war, and freeing the slaves destroyed the complete economy of a dozen states, and the blacks have taken over. Racists do not know how to distinguish between crime and minority peoples, and they universally ignore their own history. Of course the country will never be theirs again because they were such a "little" people to begin with. Remember when the Jews took over England ... they even had a Prime Minister? England must be completely gone by now. Oh well. Israel is making a BAD BAD move today.
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