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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 22, 2014 22:21:25 GMT -5
I was shocked to learn today that one of the people shot in the Canadian Parliament Building was a former student of mine. As far as I know, he is not one of those killed in the incident.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 22, 2014 22:52:10 GMT -5
I was shocked to learn today that one of the people shot in the Canadian Parliament Building was a former student of mine. As far as I know, he is not one of those killed in the incident. We have been thinking that Canada would be safe from all the violence we are seeing in many other places.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 22, 2014 23:05:52 GMT -5
I was shocked to learn today that one of the people shot in the Canadian Parliament Building was a former student of mine. As far as I know, he is not one of those killed in the incident. I was shocked to learn today that one of the people shot in the Canadian Parliament Building was a former student of mine. As far as I know, he is not one of those killed in the incident. We have been thinking that Canada would be safe from all the violence we are seeing in many other places.
They definitely have a lot less of this kind of violence that the US and some other places. But there are the occasional mental cases who just go off the edge. This guy sounds to me like he was a wannabe something -- the ridiculous name he assigned to himself sounds more like a crazy person than an idealist of come ism.
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Post by fixit on Oct 23, 2014 0:05:19 GMT -5
I hope the nutters who condemn mass surveillance will wake up and realise that in today's world its necessary.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 23, 2014 0:35:42 GMT -5
I hope the nutters who condemn mass surveillance will wake up and realise that in today's world its necessary. We "nutters" consider what Benjamin Franklin said, “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
There needs to be a minimal amount Of surveillance for the maximal amount of security.
That is often to difficult to determine, but if we give into "mass"surveillance will we be any safer?
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Post by fixit on Oct 23, 2014 0:51:17 GMT -5
...if we give into "mass" surveillance will we be any safer? Of course.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 23, 2014 0:58:55 GMT -5
...if we give into "mass" surveillance will we be any safer? Of course. But what privacy & freedom have we lost?
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Post by fixit on Oct 23, 2014 2:52:01 GMT -5
But what privacy & freedom have we lost? Everyone has a different opinion on that. For me, I don't care in the slightest what the government knows about me. I do care about people getting killed when the government is not as vigilant as it needs to be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 4:10:14 GMT -5
I hope the nutters who condemn mass surveillance will wake up and realise that in today's world its necessary. i prefer freedom to safety myself...i don't like that prision called safety and mass surveillance is just another brick in that wall...
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 23, 2014 11:52:12 GMT -5
I was shocked to learn today that one of the people shot in the Canadian Parliament Building was a former student of mine. As far as I know, he is not one of those killed in the incident. I get the impression that now we have a plenty of this and a plenty of that except jobs and too many employees outbidding one another for them has brought about a certain panic and need that has changed some of the best level headed people known and they turn into something we'd never think they'd though to do so. It's a sign of the times, it's all about "me".......people living in a vat of need and fear because so much evil is running rampant all around them that being calm and accepting one's bad luck of losing a job and having ahard time getting a good paying one.......this condition is what enables certain groups to gather up the young men like the ISIS folks do...such promises of great rewards and money!
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Post by snow on Oct 23, 2014 15:40:17 GMT -5
I was shocked to learn today that one of the people shot in the Canadian Parliament Building was a former student of mine. As far as I know, he is not one of those killed in the incident. Which one was it Bob. There was a soldier, actually 2 of them, in a place just south of Montreal that got run down with a vehicle about a week ago and one of them died. The person who did that was killed by police and he was said to be mentally unbalanced and recently converted to radical group. The soldier that was killed on Parliament Hill was Nathan Cirillo. There was a gunman killed that shot Nathan Cirillo, but there is a possibility that there are two more that are being looked for. They are labeling this terrorist attacks, but there is no proof that it is anything but a small radical group at the moment. The killings have been a tragedy for sure, and it needs to be found out if it was truly a terrorist attack or random attack by a small group.
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Post by snow on Oct 23, 2014 15:43:40 GMT -5
I was shocked to learn today that one of the people shot in the Canadian Parliament Building was a former student of mine. As far as I know, he is not one of those killed in the incident. We have been thinking that Canada would be safe from all the violence we are seeing in many other places.
We have been fairly lucky in that regard. However, when Stephen Harper changed the status of Canadian military from the role of peace makers to a more aggressive stance in the world, we started to see more of this kind of tragedy. He is a control freak and if he can he will use this to take away freedoms under the guise of safety I am afraid. Our election is coming up in 2015 and it can't come too soon for my liking.
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Post by What Hat on Oct 23, 2014 15:54:36 GMT -5
I hope the nutters who condemn mass surveillance will wake up and realise that in today's world its necessary. I think what we do need are security forces that don't sleep on the job. This man got right inside the Parliament buildings with a rifle.
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Post by snow on Oct 23, 2014 16:00:57 GMT -5
I hope the nutters who condemn mass surveillance will wake up and realise that in today's world its necessary. I think what we do need are security forces that don't sleep on the job. This man got right inside the Parliament buildings with a rifle. Yes and you can bet surveillance in government buildings just increased. I don't think there is any amount of precautions that can be taken that will prevent some of this kind of thing from happening. The challenge is to be able to have surveillance and freedoms in a good balance.
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Post by What Hat on Oct 23, 2014 17:06:25 GMT -5
I think what we do need are security forces that don't sleep on the job. This man got right inside the Parliament buildings with a rifle. Yes and you can bet surveillance in government buildings just increased. I don't think there is any amount of precautions that can be taken that will prevent some of this kind of thing from happening. The challenge is to be able to have surveillance and freedoms in a good balance. The last time I was at the Parliament buildings, this Spring, I noticed that Tim Horton's was at least 4 or 5 blocks away on Sparks Street, I believe. If they could open up one right on the Parliament lawn, the level of police protection would increase 20 to 25% overnight at no additional cost to the taxpayer.
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Post by snow on Oct 23, 2014 17:35:29 GMT -5
Yes and you can bet surveillance in government buildings just increased. I don't think there is any amount of precautions that can be taken that will prevent some of this kind of thing from happening. The challenge is to be able to have surveillance and freedoms in a good balance. The last time I was at the Parliament buildings, this Spring, I noticed that Tim Horton's was at least 4 or 5 blocks away on Sparks Street, I believe. If they could open up one right on the Parliament lawn, the level of police protection would increase 20 to 25% overnight at no additional cost to the taxpayer. Hahaha, you're bad!! Good observation though!
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Post by What Hat on Oct 23, 2014 18:38:15 GMT -5
The last time I was at the Parliament buildings, this Spring, I noticed that Tim Horton's was at least 4 or 5 blocks away on Sparks Street, I believe. If they could open up one right on the Parliament lawn, the level of police protection would increase 20 to 25% overnight at no additional cost to the taxpayer. Hahaha, you're bad!! Good observation though! I know. And a coward, too. I'm staying beyond my anonymous avatar on this one, and definitely not posting it on Facebook.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 23, 2014 20:23:58 GMT -5
I hope the nutters who condemn mass surveillance will wake up and realise that in today's world its necessary. There was indeed mass surveillance recording all the acts of the killer in Ottawa, but that actually had nothing to do with stopping the killer. It was the training and diligence of a former student of mine (title: sergeant at arms) in the Parliament Building that stopped him. Mass surveillance is not the front line of security, it is the tool of investigators to provide evidence. The only part of mass surveillance that prevents crimes from happening are the ones where each screen is constantly watched by its own pair of two eyes, and that's really not mass surveillance -- more like personal scrutiny. PS: I was initially told that Kevin Vickers (my former student) was shot -- but that's not true. He's the one who took out the terrorist.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 23, 2014 20:32:24 GMT -5
I was shocked to learn today that one of the people shot in the Canadian Parliament Building was a former student of mine. As far as I know, he is not one of those killed in the incident. Which one was it Bob. There was a soldier, actually 2 of them, in a place just south of Montreal that got run down with a vehicle about a week ago and one of them died. The person who did that was killed by police and he was said to be mentally unbalanced and recently converted to radical group. The soldier that was killed on Parliament Hill was Nathan Cirillo. There was a gunman killed that shot Nathan Cirillo, but there is a possibility that there are two more that are being looked for. They are labeling this terrorist attacks, but there is no proof that it is anything but a small radical group at the moment. The killings have been a tragedy for sure, and it needs to be found out if it was truly a terrorist attack or random attack by a small group. I got the wrong news about my student the day it happened. His name is Kevin Vickers, and he was the one who actually shot and killed the killer. He is a retired Mountie who is not the sergeant at arms in the House of Commons.
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logain
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by logain on Oct 23, 2014 20:40:11 GMT -5
We have been thinking that Canada would be safe from all the violence we are seeing in many other places.
We have been fairly lucky in that regard. However, when Stephen Harper changed the status of Canadian military from the role of peace makers to a more aggressive stance in the world, we started to see more of this kind of tragedy. He is a control freak and if he can he will use this to take away freedoms under the guise of safety I am afraid. Our election is coming up in 2015 and it can't come too soon for my liking. Have heard some people predict Harper will act like PET did during the FLQ crisis. I would like to think that Canadian people today are smarter than they were back then and not permit such heavy handed, authoritarian action but the sheer stupidity of a frightened public never ceases to amaze me.
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Post by snow on Oct 23, 2014 20:52:44 GMT -5
Which one was it Bob. There was a soldier, actually 2 of them, in a place just south of Montreal that got run down with a vehicle about a week ago and one of them died. The person who did that was killed by police and he was said to be mentally unbalanced and recently converted to radical group. The soldier that was killed on Parliament Hill was Nathan Cirillo. There was a gunman killed that shot Nathan Cirillo, but there is a possibility that there are two more that are being looked for. They are labeling this terrorist attacks, but there is no proof that it is anything but a small radical group at the moment. The killings have been a tragedy for sure, and it needs to be found out if it was truly a terrorist attack or random attack by a small group. I got the wrong news about my student the day it happened. His name is Kevin Vickers, and he was the one who actually shot and killed the killer. He is a retired Mountie who is not the sergeant at arms in the House of Commons. So your student was a different Kevin Vickers that is Sergeant in Arms and the one who shot the gunman that shot Cirillo?
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Post by snow on Oct 23, 2014 20:55:20 GMT -5
We have been fairly lucky in that regard. However, when Stephen Harper changed the status of Canadian military from the role of peace makers to a more aggressive stance in the world, we started to see more of this kind of tragedy. He is a control freak and if he can he will use this to take away freedoms under the guise of safety I am afraid. Our election is coming up in 2015 and it can't come too soon for my liking. Have heard some people predict Harper will act like PET did during the FLQ crisis. I would like to think that Canadian people today are smarter than they were back then and not permit such heavy handed, authoritarian action but the sheer stupidity of a frightened public never ceases to amaze me. Oh wow, never heard that. Wouldn't put it past him though. I can't believe how many people say they will give up freedoms to be safer. What they don't seem to understand is we are rarely any safer and just have more constraints on people that wouldn't do anything in the first place. It's like the gun registry. Those who register their guns aren't the ones using them to kill other people. There is no way to protect everyone all the time.
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Post by fixit on Oct 23, 2014 21:13:07 GMT -5
I hope the nutters who condemn mass surveillance will wake up and realise that in today's world its necessary. There was indeed mass surveillance recording all the acts of the killer in Ottawa, but that actually had nothing to do with stopping the killer. It was the training and diligence of a former student of mine (title: sergeant at arms) in the Parliament Building that stopped him. Mass surveillance is not the front line of security, it is the tool of investigators to provide evidence. The only part of mass surveillance that prevents crimes from happening are the ones where each screen is constantly watched by its own pair of two eyes, and that's really not mass surveillance -- more like personal scrutiny. PS: I was initially told that Kevin Vickers (my former student) was shot -- but that's not true. He's the one who took out the terrorist. Mass surveillance picks up unusual chatter e.g. people who discuss chopping off the heads of unbelievers, or blowing themselves up so they can go have lunch with Mohammad in paradise. Then they can keep an eye on these folks. Should they stop them travelling to Syria, or let them go and deal with them there? Would deradicalization programs work?
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 23, 2014 21:20:28 GMT -5
I got the wrong news about my student the day it happened. His name is Kevin Vickers, and he was the one who actually shot and killed the killer. He is a retired Mountie who is not the sergeant at arms in the House of Commons. So your student was a different Kevin Vickers that is Sergeant in Arms and the one who shot the gunman that shot Cirillo? My student was Kevin Vickers. I was originally told that he had been shot, but I later learned that he wasn't shot, but was the one who shot the intruder. Only one Kevin Vickers, that I know of.
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Post by What Hat on Oct 23, 2014 21:31:24 GMT -5
So your student was a different Kevin Vickers that is Sergeant in Arms and the one who shot the gunman that shot Cirillo? My student was Kevin Vickers. I was originally told that he had been shot, but I later learned that he wasn't shot, but was the one who shot the intruder. Only one Kevin Vickers, that I know of. And a national hero at this moment ...
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Post by What Hat on Oct 23, 2014 21:36:01 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 23, 2014 21:38:49 GMT -5
There was indeed mass surveillance recording all the acts of the killer in Ottawa, but that actually had nothing to do with stopping the killer. It was the training and diligence of a former student of mine (title: sergeant at arms) in the Parliament Building that stopped him. Mass surveillance is not the front line of security, it is the tool of investigators to provide evidence. The only part of mass surveillance that prevents crimes from happening are the ones where each screen is constantly watched by its own pair of two eyes, and that's really not mass surveillance -- more like personal scrutiny. PS: I was initially told that Kevin Vickers (my former student) was shot -- but that's not true. He's the one who took out the terrorist. Mass surveillance picks up unusual chatter e.g. people who discuss chopping off the heads of unbelievers, or blowing themselves up so they can go have lunch with Mohammad in paradise. Then they can keep an eye on these folks. Should they stop them travelling to Syria, or let them go and deal with them there? Would deradicalization programs work? I guess I was only thinking of camera surveillance when I made my comments. Re: chatter -- that is obviously the best tool for preventing much of what terrorists want to do. Simple mental cases that act on their own obviously don't chatter, so they'll continue to be a threat no matter what the big picture is. It's hard to know what difference it would make if these wannabe martyrs were just left to go to Syria -- but there are laws about treason that can be applied in the US is legally at war. Historically the "legally at war" requirement has not hindered treason prosecutions anyway. According to both my terrorism professors -- no, deradicalization does not work. Is there even such a thing as deradicalization? My understanding is that deradicalization is basically the same process as radicalization --- the problem with terrorists is that one's original radicalization is normally permanent.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 23, 2014 21:40:35 GMT -5
My student was Kevin Vickers. I was originally told that he had been shot, but I later learned that he wasn't shot, but was the one who shot the intruder. Only one Kevin Vickers, that I know of. And a national hero at this moment ... And I thought my student who became a Pittsburgh Steeler was special. !!!
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