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Post by nswelshman on Oct 16, 2014 0:53:05 GMT -5
I've been made aware that in NSW Australia, The ministry (for want of a better word) is covered by an insurance policy for not only General/Products/and Property Liability they are covered for Molestation and Sexual abuse to the amount up to $AUD5 million for any one claim.
It seems like the policy only covers ministers "employed" by the insured party "Undenominational Christians" which as far as I can tell isn't used anywhere other than NSW.
Is anyone aware of any insurance payouts to victims? Is "The truth" insured in any other parts of the world? I'd assume in this day and age it would be.
(I mean by "made aware" that I actually have a copy of the policy and the source is pretty good)
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Post by withlove on Oct 16, 2014 1:10:02 GMT -5
So this indicates that there is at least 5 mil. that the workers in NSW want protected from lawsuits?
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 16, 2014 1:13:10 GMT -5
Wow ! Maybe after all that has happened in Vic they thought they better do something about it, to protect themselves.
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 16, 2014 1:18:29 GMT -5
Great points Ross, all very interesting !
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Post by faune on Oct 16, 2014 1:46:26 GMT -5
I've been made aware that in NSW Australia, The ministry (for want of a better word) is covered by an insurance policy for not only General/Products/and Property Liability they are covered for Molestation and Sexual abuse to the amount up to $AUD5 million for any one claim.
It seems like the policy only covers ministers "employed" by the insured party "Undenominational Christians" which as far as I can tell isn't used anywhere other than NSW.
Is anyone aware of any insurance payouts to victims? Is "The truth" insured in any other parts of the world? I'd assume in this day and age it would be. (I mean by "made aware" that I actually have a copy of the policy and the source is pretty good) nwelshman ~ Let me get this straight, as I'm a bit confused by the wording? Are you saying this company is supposedly insuring the workers against any claims of molestation or sexual abuse claimed by victims? However, doesn't it have to be a legal organization with Board of Directors to qualify here? I thought they made no such claims of being so organized, although they surely are in reality?
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Post by withlove on Oct 16, 2014 1:53:10 GMT -5
Are conventions in NSW owned by the ministry or the friends or a combination? The properties could be part of the assets being protected I suppose.
Otherwise, how are multi-millions of dollars useful for a homeless ministry? Not trying to be sarcastic here. How much money is realistically spent on healthcare (is healthcare free?), funerals and burials and travel, etc? What else needs to be paid for?How much money would be collected per year? How many workers are there in NSW to be covered for all the above? How much money do individual workers keep for necessities for themselves and how much gets passed up the line? Anyone have any insight?
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Post by withlove on Oct 16, 2014 2:51:06 GMT -5
That is a lot of info. Thanks, Ross.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 16, 2014 3:39:58 GMT -5
I've been made aware that in NSW Australia, The ministry (for want of a better word) is covered by an insurance policy for not only General/Products/and Property Liability they are covered for Molestation and Sexual abuse to the amount up to $AUD5 million for any one claim. It seems like the policy only covers ministers "employed" by the insured party "Undenominational Christians" which as far as I can tell isn't used anywhere other than NSW. Is anyone aware of any insurance payouts to victims? Is "The truth" insured in any other parts of the world? I'd assume in this day and age it would be. (I mean by "made aware" that I actually have a copy of the policy and the source is pretty good) Is this to cover workers if they are sexually abused?
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Post by What Hat on Oct 16, 2014 4:15:13 GMT -5
So this indicates that there is at least 5 mil. that the workers in NSW want protected from lawsuits? I wish it worked that way; I'd be a wealthy man. Liability lawsuits cover the maximum potential judgement, and usually you get insurance because you can't pay the judgement yourself.
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Post by What Hat on Oct 16, 2014 4:23:19 GMT -5
I've been made aware that in NSW Australia, The ministry (for want of a better word) is covered by an insurance policy for not only General/Products/and Property Liability they are covered for Molestation and Sexual abuse to the amount up to $AUD5 million for any one claim. It seems like the policy only covers ministers "employed" by the insured party "Undenominational Christians" which as far as I can tell isn't used anywhere other than NSW. Is anyone aware of any insurance payouts to victims? Is "The truth" insured in any other parts of the world? I'd assume in this day and age it would be. (I mean by "made aware" that I actually have a copy of the policy and the source is pretty good) Is this to cover workers if they are sexually abused? Not likely. It would probably be liability insurance to protect for various damages resulting from a lawsuit for events ranging from someone breaking a leg on a ladder, to sexual abuse victims' claims. It's possible that a convention ground owner would obtain this kind of insurance. From what I understand these sexual abuse damages are now covered in many church liability insurance policies. I know the people I was discussing this with indicated that they had to have an effective 'safe church' and abuse awareness program in order to obtain the coverage.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 16, 2014 6:03:47 GMT -5
Is this to cover workers if they are sexually abused? Not likely. It would probably be liability insurance to protect for various damages resulting from a lawsuit for events ranging from someone breaking a leg on a ladder, to sexual abuse victims' claims. It's possible that a convention ground owner would obtain this kind of insurance. From what I understand these sexual abuse damages are now covered in many church liability insurance policies. I know the people I was discussing this with indicated that they had to have an effective 'safe church' and abuse awareness program in order to obtain the coverage. Sounds like a sensible church. Sad that it has come to this.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 7:17:29 GMT -5
Not aware of the policy or any payouts. It would be sensible to put in place, assuming that insurance cover is able to be organised for this contingency. It would be interesting to know what the excess level is and whether there is any "statute of limitation" type clause. Un-denominational Christians would have to be an incorporated body with an ABN or ACN otherwise it would be ineffective. For there to be an incorporated body there has to be Directors/officers under Corporations Law. Seeing is believing as they say. Cheers, Ross Yes, I am inclined to go along with your thoughts on this one here.The fellowship, as far as I am aware and am able to glean/ ascertain, is not an employer as such, and technically it is not supposed to own anything, so my question is this, in whose name would such an insurance Policy/ cover be registered and issued.? The workers are supposed to be servants of God, aren't they? but I doubt,very much, that any Insurance company would be willing to issue/ write an Insurance policy in the name of God. In any case Almighty God doesn't need any insurance cover. He is in control of the universe, only those of us, weaklings, who are not in total control of ourselves/themselves in certain areas of life would need such insurance cover in my humble opinion, which probably does not amount to very much anyway. The story seems unlikely to be true, but who knows, stranger things in life have happened.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 8:21:42 GMT -5
Thank you Ross, fair comment. I have no problem with that.
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Post by christiansburg on Oct 16, 2014 9:31:47 GMT -5
I've been made aware that in NSW Australia, The ministry (for want of a better word) is covered by an insurance policy for not only General/Products/and Property Liability they are covered for Molestation and Sexual abuse to the amount up to $AUD5 million for any one claim. It seems like the policy only covers ministers "employed" by the insured party "Undenominational Christians" which as far as I can tell isn't used anywhere other than NSW. Is anyone aware of any insurance payouts to victims? Is "The truth" insured in any other parts of the world? I'd assume in this day and age it would be. (I mean by "made aware" that I actually have a copy of the policy and the source is pretty good) Are you able to post a copy of the policy?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 16, 2014 10:35:10 GMT -5
Seems to me that the workers having refused to changed from within their own group,being led by those who have asked or advised changes are setting themselves up to the rigor of having to change by the laws of insurance plus the world's laws on organization and coverage of their own behaviours. I think they will find that in the long run that this law being coverage for an allegation of a worker committing sexual abuse, etc will find themselves all being examined in the long run and that their efforts to hold the workership to the status quo is going to change whether they like it or not and then they will pay out the nose the financial part of it if not prison part of it! Kind of seems like they're cutting off their noses to spite their faces!
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Post by nswelshman on Oct 16, 2014 14:35:21 GMT -5
I've been made aware that in NSW Australia, The ministry (for want of a better word) is covered by an insurance policy for not only General/Products/and Property Liability they are covered for Molestation and Sexual abuse to the amount up to $AUD5 million for any one claim. It seems like the policy only covers ministers "employed" by the insured party "Undenominational Christians" which as far as I can tell isn't used anywhere other than NSW. Is anyone aware of any insurance payouts to victims? Is "The truth" insured in any other parts of the world? I'd assume in this day and age it would be. (I mean by "made aware" that I actually have a copy of the policy and the source is pretty good) Are you able to post a copy of the policy? At this point in time I would prefer not. I was more curious as to if the workers in the US or Canada had cover like this as both those areas are specifically excluded in this policy.
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Post by nswelshman on Oct 16, 2014 15:00:20 GMT -5
Is the coverage there so if the workers are charged they have some money to go towards their legal fees etc.? For their defense? It's to pay compensation claims. Like car insurance covers you for running into someone and them making a claim against you.
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Post by christiansburg on Oct 16, 2014 15:40:22 GMT -5
Is the coverage there so if the workers are charged they have some money to go towards their legal fees etc.? For their defense? You may understand why we are insistent for proof of things said about the 2x2's because a lot of issues on this board are chatter and heresies. So I guess I would just want to know if you validate this claim by a personal oath.
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Post by nswelshman on Oct 16, 2014 16:39:25 GMT -5
Is the coverage there so if the workers are charged they have some money to go towards their legal fees etc.? For their defense? You may understand why we are insistent for proof of things said about the 2x2's because a lot of issues on this board are chatter and heresies. So I guess I would just want to know if you validate this claim by a personal oath. PM sent. I'm not really curious as to the veracity of the document. I know that it is legit. I'm curious as to whether anyone is aware of any other insurance policies in which the workers are covered for crimes of a sexual nature.
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Post by What Hat on Oct 16, 2014 19:24:55 GMT -5
Every church requires insurance cover - the 2x2's are no exception. If they rent a hall and a person trips over the cords which they use for their speakers, they could sue the workers. A professing person generally wouldn't sue a worker, but a person attending as a visitor to the meetings could. Most halls would not rent to the workers unless they had some kind of public liability insurance in place. It's standard. The interesting aspect is that the cover extends to cover instances of sexual molestation - this would be to protect the church and its ministers. For this type of insurance to be effective (an insurance company would have numerous liability exclusions) an effective child protection training program would need to be in place. I am not aware if it is or isn't (suspect it would be published if it was) but if it isn't I'd suggest the insurance protection would not be worth the paper it is written on. Yes, I've been told the same also, so it must be correct then, eh?
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Post by What Hat on Oct 16, 2014 19:27:25 GMT -5
Not aware of the policy or any payouts. It would be sensible to put in place, assuming that insurance cover is able to be organised for this contingency. It would be interesting to know what the excess level is and whether there is any "statute of limitation" type clause. Un-denominational Christians would have to be an incorporated body with an ABN or ACN otherwise it would be ineffective. For there to be an incorporated body there has to be Directors/officers under Corporations Law. Seeing is believing as they say. Cheers, Ross Yes, I am inclined to go along with your thoughts on this one here.The fellowship, as far as I am aware and am able to glean/ ascertain, is not an employer as such, and technically it is not supposed to own anything, so my question is this, in whose name would such an insurance Policy/ cover be registered and issued.? The workers are supposed to be servants of God, aren't they? but I doubt,very much, that any Insurance company would be willing to issue/ write an Insurance policy in the name of God. In any case Almighty God doesn't need any insurance cover. He is in control of the universe, only those of us, weaklings, who are not in total control of ourselves/themselves in certain areas of life would need such insurance cover in my humble opinion, which probably does not amount to very much anyway. The story seems unlikely to be true, but who knows, stranger things in life have happened. The workers appear to have registered the name "Undenominational Church". Certainly that appears on the insurance policy, so it's reasonable to assume that is the case. (Basically, I'm just repeating what Ross said ... two witnesses and all that. )
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Post by open mind on Oct 16, 2014 20:48:07 GMT -5
I've been made aware that in NSW Australia, The ministry (for want of a better word) is covered by an insurance policy for not only General/Products/and Property Liability they are covered for Molestation and Sexual abuse to the amount up to $AUD5 million for any one claim. It seems like the policy only covers ministers "employed" by the insured party "Undenominational Christians" which as far as I can tell isn't used anywhere other than NSW. Is anyone aware of any insurance payouts to victims? Is "The truth" insured in any other parts of the world? I'd assume in this day and age it would be. (I mean by "made aware" that I actually have a copy of the policy and the source is pretty good) Who are the signatories on this supposed policy and how long has it been in place?
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Post by nswelshman on Oct 16, 2014 22:40:39 GMT -5
He quoted the wrong person. It was a question to me.
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Post by christiansburg on Oct 17, 2014 8:39:46 GMT -5
You may understand why we are insistent for proof of things said about the 2x2's because a lot of issues on this board are chatter and heresies. So I guess I would just want to know if you validate this claim by a personal oath. Interesting point - I have a close relative who knows Leslie White well and thinks highly of him - but will still not believe that he has left the work - because the person hasn't spoken directly to him (and won't) and won't believe his email. I am not saying this about you, but some folks won't believe anything about the beginnings of the fellowship because they refuse to read anything. Apparently, the reason is that it upsets their faith? These things don't upset my faith because I have seen so much of it over my lifetime I am just disappointed in people. I knew Leslie personally also traveled special meeting rounds with him several years ago, remember what he told me before he went in the work. So I do believe what has shown up here about him. I am just surprised about the insurance liability policy approach but if, as you say it is out there, I can see why. As far as I know, but I am not always in the know, there isn't anything like that in Eastern USA, just yet. As far as the beginning of the fellowship I heard that first in 1963 from G.Walker and C.Hughes. That hasn't troubled me either. I just thought it was an amazing story. Thanks for your input here.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 17, 2014 10:55:08 GMT -5
Is the coverage there so if the workers are charged they have some money to go towards their legal fees etc.? For their defense? It's to pay compensation claims. Like car insurance covers you for running into someone and them making a claim against you. Likely similar to the malpractice insurance that drs. and nurses quibble for That said, they'd have to make themselves a "legal organization"!
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