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Grace
Oct 13, 2014 17:48:35 GMT -5
Post by kurtzphil69 on Oct 13, 2014 17:48:35 GMT -5
Grace: Don't know if I will ever fully understand it. I DO know that life has been gracious to me at times and I've gotten better than I deserve at times. But, at other times I've gotten a bum deal and things I didn't deserve that were not so good. So, I guess it balances out, in a way.
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Grace
Oct 13, 2014 18:00:10 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 18:00:10 GMT -5
grace = mercy given to us through Christ Jesus
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Post by déjà vu on Oct 13, 2014 21:46:56 GMT -5
this is copied from another thread
just what do the 2x2 mean when they speak of the grace of God ?
I remember one of the preachers I believe it was Ch Swindoll saying that it took him 20 years of preaching until he finally understood the true meaning of Grace .
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Grace
Oct 13, 2014 23:53:02 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 23:53:02 GMT -5
the giving of life for the will of God so that man could have the undeserved opportunity of being in Heaven with Him at no cost to us others than to obey Gods will
being kind to those who hate you
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Grace
Oct 14, 2014 5:42:02 GMT -5
faune likes this
Post by bubbles on Oct 14, 2014 5:42:02 GMT -5
grace = mercy given to us through Christ Jesus Grace and mercy have different meanings. "New each morning are his mercies." "His grace is sufficent for us" Grace means unmerited favour. Everything we recieve from him is because of grace. His mercy encompasses all of mankind. Not just believers.
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Grace
Oct 14, 2014 14:03:20 GMT -5
Post by bitterbetty on Oct 14, 2014 14:03:20 GMT -5
Where is Dennis when we need him?
Dennis, what are your definitions of 'grace' and 'mercy'?
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Grace
Oct 14, 2014 14:18:49 GMT -5
faune likes this
Post by bitterbetty on Oct 14, 2014 14:18:49 GMT -5
Grace: Don't know if I will ever fully understand it. I DO know that life has been gracious to me at times and I've gotten better than I deserve at times. But, at other times I've gotten a bum deal and things I didn't deserve that were not so good. So, I guess it balances out, in a way. From a nurse's perspective, I have often over the years heard patients express their thankfulness to me for caring for them and relieving their suffering, for being their advocate, etc. They express this thanks as if it is something amazing they do not deserve and are amazed at what is being done for them; what is being given to them. Maybe this is a form of grace in the works. From my end of it, I was doing my job to the best of my ability...which, in the medical world, we don't just take good care of people because they have done something to deserve it. As to mercy: We also employ this in the medical field at various times. Because if some people had what was truly coming to them for all the bad things they've done in their life, we would just let them suffer all the consequences and do nothing to ease that suffering. So, in a way, we are being merciful. Sure, we could just let people suffer and do nothing to help them, judge certain ones with a mindset of "it's what they deserve" or 'they've only done this to their self' (through a lifetime of bad habits, bad choices, etc). But instead, the expectation is that we will be merciful and not judge them and instead do whatever we can to care for them in the best way possible. Easy to do? Not always. But that is the standard.
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Grace
Oct 14, 2014 21:57:56 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on Oct 14, 2014 21:57:56 GMT -5
What exactly is “Grace”?
Some (including many 2x2s) believe the word “Grace” refers to a person who is gracious, extremely considerate, caring, merciful and/or a tactful, kind conversationalist; or a blessing spoken before you eat a meal. In the New Testament, to show Grace is to extend favor or kindness to one who doesn’t deserve it and can never earn it. It is often said that “Grace” means God’s unmerited favor to mankind.
For a Christian, the five letter word “grace” is infused with an amazing concept. It contains an offer of an incredible, wonderful, marvelous, utterly amazing, absolutely free gift from God. That gift is Eternal Life. It is given absolutely free to those who choose to accept it through faith. This is extremely “Good News!” It’s far better than winning the lottery for a billion dollars with a ticket that was given to you free.
This concept of Grace is set out in Ephesians 2:8-9: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any many should boast.
In other words Grace and Works are mutually exclusive; we are saved by faith--NOT by works. In this passage, the Greek word for “grace” means “free gift.” This verse tells us that it is by accepting a free gift that we are saved.
And that’s not all the Good News! We cannot work for Eternal Life. Access to Heaven is “not of works.” The heavenly entrance is not opened by trusting God AND obeying certain rules or doing certain works, or following certain requirements. Because we do not merit salvation and there is no way to earn it, any possible reason for pride or boasting is eliminated (Romans 3:27)
Faith is our ONLY hope. It is impossible to obtain Eternal Life by working for it or by attempting to merit or earn it. God’s plan doesn’t work that way. We are saved BY God’s grace THROUGH faith alone, and not on the basis of any good works we have done. Faith is the conduit, the channel to access the free gift (Grace). It’s about what God has done for us, NOT about what we do for God.
You don't receive a free gift because you earned it or worked for it. If you receive a payment for your work – that is what you earned--it isn't a free gift. Works do not earn or merit salvation (they count toward heavenly reward). According to Romans 4:4-5: "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
We can receive Grace simply on the basis of our faith and trust in God. Heb 11:6 declares that “without faith it is impossible to please God.” Faith is made up of three things: knowledge, belief and trust. We are forgiven by God simply by believing that the death of Jesus Christ on the cross paid for the sins for which we have repented. When we place our trust in Him, our slate is wiped clean. “For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16.
As Chuck Swindoll wrote: “We were born wrong with God. The same sin that Adam introduced has polluted the entire human race. No one is immune to the sin disease. And no human accomplishment can erase the internal stain that separates us from God. Because Adam sinned, all have sinned This leads to one conclusion. We all need help. We need forgiveness. We need a Savior.
"So how do we get out of this mess? See Rom 5:18-19: Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
You have a choice. You can strive to make it to heaven by your own efforts and try to be as good and perfect as Jesus; or you can place your faith in Jesus and receive your right standing with God as a free gift of His grace. Either we approach God on our own merits; or we approach him completely without merit of our own on the basis of his Grace alone.
The gospel (the “Good News”) is that God offers salvation as a free gift to those who believe: "What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them. This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent," John 6:28-29
The grace of God is not a cover for sin. When a believer accepts His free gift through faith, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside the believer as an internal guide, and the result is that there is no desire to sin. Rules aren’t needed because Christians are set free; not to sin, but to "faith which worketh by love" Gal 5:6.
Eph. 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; 9: Not of works, lest any many should boast.
Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy he saved us."
2 Timothy 1:9: "Who hath saved us and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace..."
Acts 10:43: To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
John 3:36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
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Grace
Oct 15, 2014 1:40:07 GMT -5
Post by bubbles on Oct 15, 2014 1:40:07 GMT -5
Grace: Don't know if I will ever fully understand it. I DO know that life has been gracious to me at times and I've gotten better than I deserve at times. But, at other times I've gotten a bum deal and things I didn't deserve that were not so good. So, I guess it balances out, in a way. From a nurse's perspective, I have often over the years heard patients express their thankfulness to me for caring for them and relieving their suffering, for being their advocate, etc. They express this thanks as if it is something amazing they do not deserve and are amazed at what is being done for them; what is being given to them. Maybe this is a form of grace in the works. From my end of it, I was doing my job to the best of my ability...which, in the medical world, we don't just take good care of people because they have done something to deserve it. As to mercy: We also employ this in the medical field at various times. Because if some people had what was truly coming to them for all the bad things they've done in their life, we would just let them suffer all the consequences and do nothing to ease that suffering. So, in a way, we are being merciful. Sure, we could just let people suffer and do nothing to help them, judge certain ones with a mindset of "it's what they deserve" or 'they've only done this to their self' (through a lifetime of bad habits, bad choices, etc). But instead, the expectation is that we will be merciful and not judge them and instead do whatever we can to care for them in the best way possible. Easy to do? Not always. But that is the standard. BB If you are a good nurse you will have the gift of mercy.
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Grace
Oct 15, 2014 1:46:20 GMT -5
Post by bubbles on Oct 15, 2014 1:46:20 GMT -5
Deliverance from death at no cost to us - we simply need to repent, turn to Christ, worship Him as Lord and Saviour and let His HS work in us. He will change us progressively to be more like Christ. I like the thought that God is completely 100% sovereign and in total control of our destiny and we are completely 100% responsible about what we do with God and His will for us. Ross He is soveriegn but he gives us free choice in everything. I dont think he controls our destiny. I think my life he been the result of the choices I made. Sometimes wise most times not. Now I can look back down the yrs and hope I stuff up less in the future. The times I listened to the inner leading are the ones that brought blessing
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Grace
Oct 15, 2014 4:38:38 GMT -5
Post by bubbles on Oct 15, 2014 4:38:38 GMT -5
Do you think our lives are predestined?
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Grace
Oct 15, 2014 20:02:02 GMT -5
Post by faune on Oct 15, 2014 20:02:02 GMT -5
Snow - God is sovereign and knows in advance what our reaction/decision will be. In the sense that everything we receive is from God, the gift of faith must come from God. God has given us the mental capacity to accept or reject Him but clearly He would desire the former (Bible indicates that it's God will that all would come to repentance/acceptance of Him). God won't withhold gift of faith unless we reject Him.This doesn't seem right actually. If faith is a gift from God and I don't have faith then it seems pretty simple that he hasn't given me that gift. I have never rejected God. I just do not have any way of having faith that there is one. I don't 'not believe in God' just because I don't want to. If I could actually believe there was one I would be just fine with accepting him. It's not a matter of choice here. I could say "I believe in God", and no one would know the difference. However, I would know the difference and it would make me a hypocrite because I do not believe in God. So if God knows ahead of time whether or not we are saved based on the condition we accept Jesus in faith, which God grants us as a gift, it seems pretty simple to me that he has never given me that gift. Snow ~ I agree with what Ross shared above about the gift of faith and also that we are given a choice as to receiving or rejecting God's gift of grace and salvation. As far as predestination goes, I'm not overly convinced in that area either. However, faith does require us to hear the Word of God to our own hearts and to act upon it by believing in Jesus and his sacrifice on our behalf, along with the resurrection account, which gives us hope of eternal salvation.
A few minutes ago I just answered your question with the same answer that Nathan gave from Romans 10:17. Perhaps faith is only a matter of being willing to hear God's voice to our own hearts and acting on it accordingly? One thing for sure, there's a lot of questions that perhaps need answers, but we just might not receive all our answers within this lifetime, I'm beginning to realize? Therefore, some things do require simple faith without all the reasons for belief at our disposal ~ like belief in God's goodness and mercy and his desire for the salvation of mankind. JMT
professing.proboards.com/thread/22435/gift-christ-salvation?page=1&scrollTo=609781
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Post by faune on Oct 16, 2014 0:59:32 GMT -5
Snow ~ I don't feel we need a whole lot of faith to believe in Jesus, just a little bit to begin with at first, like the mustard seed Jesus spoke about relating to faith as being the smallest of seeds in Matthew 13:31-32. Then, over time it grows into something of beauty due to the fruits of the spirit also taking root in our lives. In fact, I'm reminded especially of the definition of faith found in Hebrews 11:1 this evening, that great faith chapter found in the Bible.
www.gotquestions.org/mustard-seed-faith.html
biblehub.com/hebrews/11-1.htm Hebrews 11:1
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Grace
Oct 16, 2014 16:45:51 GMT -5
Post by faune on Oct 16, 2014 16:45:51 GMT -5
Snow ~ I believe what you are really asking me is why believe in Christianity over all the other religions out there today? Well, perhaps this apologist will have an answer for you better than any I could give you, other than Christianity works for me and it's the religion I have known since childhood. However, I realize that some people may even choose the alternative of New Age religion and its beliefs over Christianity and the other world religions. I guess it all depends on what suits you best, including what church you choose to attend and why? Since I'm not very familiar with Hinduism or Kristna, I probably would not be inclined in that direction either.
carm.org/why-believe-christianity-over-all-other-religions Why Believe in Christianity Over All Other Religions?
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Post by bubbles on Oct 17, 2014 14:39:12 GMT -5
Faune A number of religion are similar to christianity. They were started in another age. Different god. Same characterists as christ.
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Grace
Oct 18, 2014 23:46:14 GMT -5
faune likes this
Post by bitterbetty on Oct 18, 2014 23:46:14 GMT -5
From a nurse's perspective, I have often over the years heard patients express their thankfulness to me for caring for them and relieving their suffering, for being their advocate, etc. They express this thanks as if it is something amazing they do not deserve and are amazed at what is being done for them; what is being given to them. Maybe this is a form of grace in the works. From my end of it, I was doing my job to the best of my ability...which, in the medical world, we don't just take good care of people because they have done something to deserve it. As to mercy: We also employ this in the medical field at various times. Because if some people had what was truly coming to them for all the bad things they've done in their life, we would just let them suffer all the consequences and do nothing to ease that suffering. So, in a way, we are being merciful. Sure, we could just let people suffer and do nothing to help them, judge certain ones with a mindset of "it's what they deserve" or 'they've only done this to their self' (through a lifetime of bad habits, bad choices, etc). But instead, the expectation is that we will be merciful and not judge them and instead do whatever we can to care for them in the best way possible. Easy to do? Not always. But that is the standard. BB If you are a good nurse you will have the gift of mercy. Thanks for your comment, bubbles! Well, I've been told over and over and over and over again that I am a good nurse. Guess that must encompass mercy as well, huh? I agree with you that good nurses show mercy. Well, actually, to tell you the truth, it is simply the 'STANDARD' that a nurse will be merciful. I could not ever operate in any other frame of mind. So, I guess I was cut out to be a nurse. Some said I should have been a doctor and I have not doubt that that is what I could have been should I have chosen that path. But there was something in me that was an ever stronger calling: to be a mother. And I knew, based upon my character, that if I was a doctor I would essentially be married to medicine, fwiw. Anyone who is a doctor or a nurse understands the demands of the profession and what all is required. If I was going to BE a doctor, nothing less than the best would suffice....How then, would I reconcile that with being the best mom as well? I didn't see a way around it. Maternal instincts can be so oh so strong... Maybe this is one reason why I relate so well to Doctors who specialize and become the best. I have great respect for them, as well as great appreciation for them. I have an "INKLING" of what it takes to be a Dr. I've had Dr.'s confide in me; even ask me for advice. Why? Maybe it's because I was someone who they felt they could trust! In a way, it's a matter of honor... My mom used to work for a Doctor and she was his 'right-hand-man', so to speak. My mom was/is a gifted lady. Gifted in the art of healing, which when we look into her ancestry, she came from a long line of healers... This particular Dr. she worked for was also gifted in the art of healing...and while I will agree there is always the scientific process involved, there is also a gift involved and an 'art' as well. I've seen it. I cannot deny it. Yes...some Dr.'s seem to be 'gifted'...as those of us in the medical profession can attest to. I don't know exactly what 'special' thing they've got going for them, but I guess I can just say: it's a gift. Just as some think I may have the gift of mercy... To me: I am just doing what I've been taught and trained to do: be merciful and do it with grace. Thanks again, bubbles for reading what I write. I may never meet you again in person, but rest assured that your kindness is never ever forgotten.
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Grace
Oct 18, 2014 23:59:39 GMT -5
Post by bubbles on Oct 18, 2014 23:59:39 GMT -5
Aw how sweet. Well I feel sorry for doctors they do such long long hours. Mine is a sweety. Very understanding. Ive worked with some nurses that should be hung by their toes. Most are good. Ive worked with some carers who are cruel. I know when I was in hospital for double surgery I appreciated so much everything the nurses did for me. I think nurses and carers are the most unappreciated. Their role is a caring role and they give beyond the call of duty most often.
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Grace
Oct 19, 2014 0:20:53 GMT -5
faune likes this
Post by kurtzphil69 on Oct 19, 2014 0:20:53 GMT -5
BitterBetty, Faune, Ken Coolidge, and everyone: My personal stance it that I KNOW for certain that I have been granted mercy as well as grace. Good Lord-I never really felt that I DESERVED either one! Perhaps this makes it MORE PROFOUND. Being given something good and wonderful that you don't deserve really caused me to look for enlightenment...why? Well, simply that-there seemed to be no other explanation for grace/mercy besides LOVE.
I remember one day, a doctors that I had gone to with my NEED, called me at home with the results of an MRI that i suggested we do...What I heard from him over the phone was simply put: 'I care'.
Now, mind you, I had come to a place in my life wherein I felt it was a "dog-eat-dog" world. I was feeling as though things were basically sort of : bleak. This particular doctor brought a ray of sunshine in my life that day that -- hmmmm. "It will be okay."
Oh=my-gosh!
Can I even begin to describe to you the RELIEF I felt at that time that it was gonna be okay? No, words cannot not express, really what came over me.
Not only was this particullar Dr. offering me help, he offered me HOPE and genuine care for my well being. This was a foreign concept to me as I was used to being a leader and one who provided relief and caring and answers to others.
To be placed in this 'other' role. I cannot describe it. All I knew was that something SIGNIFICANT happened to me that day. And, that there wa hope in sight.
From there on, my whole life changed. I cannot begin to tell you how and what kind of change occured within me. It was a turning point for me. Like. "Wow, someone is in my corner"
My GRATITUDE I am sure has never been fully expressed, nor appreciated. This has been part of my frustration in my life. To be able to fully express my GRATITUDE....
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Grace
Oct 19, 2014 12:04:21 GMT -5
Post by faune on Oct 19, 2014 12:04:21 GMT -5
Faune A number of religion are similar to christianity. They were started in another age. Different god. Same characterists as christ. Bubbles ~ I agree with you. However, I was just pointing out the argument of Christian apologists within this discussion. Actually, if you review the history of religions, you find a lot of similarities in the story lines passed down.
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Grace
Oct 19, 2014 12:10:43 GMT -5
Post by faune on Oct 19, 2014 12:10:43 GMT -5
BitterBetty, Faune, Ken Coolidge, and everyone: My personal stance it that I KNOW for certain that I have been granted mercy as well as grace. Good Lord-I never really felt that I DESERVED either one! Perhaps this makes it MORE PROFOUND. Being given something good and wonderful that you don't deserve really caused me to look for enlightenment...why? Well, simply that-there seemed to be no other explanation for grace/mercy besides LOVE. I remember one day, a doctors that I had gone to with my NEED, called me at home with the results of an MRI that i suggested we do...What I heard from him over the phone was simply put: 'I care'. Now, mind you, I had come to a place in my life wherein I felt it was a "dog-eat-dog" world. I was feeling as though things were basically sort of : bleak. This particular doctor brought a ray of sunshine in my life that day that -- hmmmm. "It will be okay." Oh=my-gosh! Can I even begin to describe to you the RELIEF I felt at that time that it was gonna be okay? No, words cannot not express, really what came over me. Not only was this particular Dr. offering me help, he offered me HOPE and genuine care for my well being. This was a foreign concept to me as I was used to being a leader and one who provided relief and caring and answers to others. To be placed in this 'other' role. I cannot describe it. All I knew was that something SIGNIFICANT happened to me that day. And, that there wa hope in sight. From there on, my whole life changed. I cannot begin to tell you how and what kind of change occurred within me. It was a turning point for me. Like. "Wow, someone is in my corner" My GRATITUDE I am sure has never been fully expressed, nor appreciated. This has been part of my frustration in my life. To be able to fully express my GRATITUDE.... kurtzphil69 ~ It sounds like you have one of those moments in time we call an epiphany, when everything becomes crystal clear to us and changes us in time. Your gratitude also comes through to us from your life experience, which no doubt marks a crossroads in your life.
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