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Post by bubbles on Aug 14, 2014 7:40:52 GMT -5
This movie challenges the local church
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 12:55:53 GMT -5
i've heard about the movie just haven't seen it yet, why do you say it challenges the local church?
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Post by faune on Aug 31, 2014 14:24:24 GMT -5
This movie challenges the local church. Bubbles ~ In my personal opinion, the movie contradicts the book more than follows it. They change a lot of things in the movie and even added a few other scenes not even found within the book, which is confusing. I saw this movie, Heaven is For Real recently, but I felt God is Not Dead was much better done when it came to keeping with the Christian perspective.
Along with Wally, I'm curious as to in what way you feel the movie challenges the local church? Can you clarify your statement here? My daughter read Heaven is for Real and was looking forward to the movie. However, after reading the book, she was disappointed with the storyline found in the movie due to all the noticeable changes that had been made.
Here's an article to clarify my point as to how it varied from the book and in some places outrightly contradicted it.
www.patheos.com/blogs/filmchat/2014/04/how-the-movie-heaven-is-for-real-contradicts-the-book.html
www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-ewaCVARtM Heaven Is For Real (Trailer)
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Post by bubbles on Aug 31, 2014 14:47:45 GMT -5
For me personally it was about the little boy being taken to heaven. Slowly what he saw was revealed. The father believed his son because the child doesnt lie or normally fabricate.
Over time the mother thought it was fantasy until one day the child talks about his sister in heaven whom the parents lost before son was born. Then the congregation react and they have a board meeting to correct the father about what the child is saying.
Basicly no one wanted to believe this happened. It challenged their belief and yet they claim to believe in heaven. It was about the place they will go when they die.
It made me think of how we believe we have faith. how real is our faith and how strong the belief.
it also reminded me of many times I saw things and how people reacted accepting or rejecting the gift or experience.
The child in his innocence was unaware anyone disbelieved him. It was his reality. He had nothing to prove.
It was the others who got their knockers in a twist.
I wasnt referring to the church or how it operated etc faune.
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Post by faune on Aug 31, 2014 14:55:09 GMT -5
Bubbles ~ Thanks for your explanation. Now I see what you mean. You also make some good points to ponder from your observations.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 31, 2014 17:23:21 GMT -5
You know what that movie & book is to me?
The exploitation of an innocent child in an attempt for adults to try & prove their beliefs.
Actually it wasn't that no one wanted to believe this happened.
They just wanted it in the end to confirm what they wanted to believe.
Children have imaginary friends & situations especially so at that age.
They pick up clues from adults to create imaginary people and situations.
They even have names for people. I remember at that age my brother & I had this imaginary person we called "Mrs. Beka Bika Boka.'"
Just say that name. Listen to the rhythm, the alliteration, -the great sound as that trips off your tongue.
I think we must have been very clever in spite of our age.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 31, 2014 18:12:42 GMT -5
You know what that movie & book is to me?
The exploitation of an innocent child in an attempt for adults to try & prove their beliefs.
Actually it wasn't that no one wanted to believe this happened.
They just wanted it in the end to confirm what they wanted to believe.
Children have imaginary friends & situations especially so at that age.
They pick up clues from adults to create imaginary people and situations.
They even have names for people. I remember at that age my brother & I had this imaginary person we called "Mrs. Beka Bika Boka.'"
Just say that name. Listen to the rhythm, the alliteration, -the great sound as that trips off your tongue.
I think we must have been very clever in spite of our age. I beg to differ I didnt see they exploited the child. Yes kids are great. Im alone with a 16yr old autistic child. Chatting and laughing. He looks behind me waves and says 'hi pops'. Smiles at me carries on chatting. I turned saw nothing "Who is pops?" My grandad he died when I was 9. "Do you see him often?" Sometimes. "Do you see other invisible people." "Yes angels sometimes. S when are you building me a house?" He asked. Had this dream for me to build him 2 story house. Im his cleaner and slave. when I nannied him I built him huge lego houses.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 31, 2014 22:06:47 GMT -5
You know what that movie & book is to me?
The exploitation of an innocent child in an attempt for adults to try & prove their beliefs.
Actually it wasn't that no one wanted to believe this happened.
They just wanted it in the end to confirm what they wanted to believe.
Children have imaginary friends & situations especially so at that age.
They pick up clues from adults to create imaginary people and situations.
They even have names for people. I remember at that age my brother & I had this imaginary person we called "Mrs. Beka Bika Boka.'"
Just say that name. Listen to the rhythm, the alliteration, -the great sound as that trips off your tongue.
I think we must have been very clever in spite of our age. I beg to differ I didnt see they exploited the child. Yes kids are great. Im alone with a 16yr old autistic child. Chatting and laughing. He looks behind me waves and says 'hi pops'. Smiles at me carries on chatting. I turned saw nothing "Who is pops?" My grandad he died when I was 9. "Do you see him often?" Sometimes. "Do you see other invisible people." "Yes angels sometimes. S when are you building me a house?" He asked. Had this dream for me to build him 2 story house. Im his cleaner and slave. when I nannied him I built him huge lego houses. It isn't so much about the one exploited child as in that movie. It is more the exploitation of the innocence of childhood.
Attempting to see something in that innocence that the adult wants to believe is true.
Maybe because the adult is still a child in their desire to believe in the supernatural.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 1, 2014 2:24:07 GMT -5
Do you believe in the supernatural?
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Post by faune on Sept 1, 2014 13:18:53 GMT -5
Do you believe in the supernatural? Bubbles ~ I rather doubt DMG believes in the supernatural any more than she believes in the existence of a God behind the early formation of the universe? It's all comes under the general description of atheistic beliefs, IMHO?
However, that being said, here's a site which deals with all kinds of supernatural events in history and folklore, which I feel some might find entertaining? Some are spooky and others are funny, but I feel you will find quite a collection here of tales of supernatural occurrences occurring down through history. We even have our own tales of ghost haunts in different areas of Tennessee. I was reading a book a while back entitled, "Ghosts and Haunts of Tennessee" by Christopher K. Coleman, and discovered Nashville has a few old plantations around town with a number of tales connected to them of apparitions and supernatural events transpiring in the past. They even have ghost stories of celebrities on the History Channel, if I remember right?
Therefore, I personally don't dismiss such things as being just a fabrication of the mind, but give them some room for thought myself. I have a friend who bought an old plantation home in East Tennessee and renovated it completely; however, she has told me stories of the history behind the house and truthfully felt she was visited by its friendly ghosts in the past by some of the strange things that have occurred there since then. She's a pretty level headed person, so I don't think she was making up stories to entertain me either, BTW.
www.argumentsforatheism.com/what.html What is Atheism?
americanfolklore.net/folklore/ghost-stories/supernatural-stories/ Supernatural Stories
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 1, 2014 15:12:39 GMT -5
Do you believe in the supernatural? Short answer, NO.
Bubbles, If I believed in even one "supernatural" being , at what point should I NOT believe in a another?
Let's just say that I might believe in the resurrection of Jesus and his ascension” into the sky. Would I also believe a Roman Emperor also ascended from his funeral pyre into sky?
Would I continue to believe that indeed there are "ghosts," -people who come back from the dead?
If I believed in all of these , would I continue to believe that there are fairies? bogarts? unicorns? and a real Santa Claus who lives at the North Pole and brings me presents at Christmas time?
SUPERNATURAL 1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil 2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit) If I believe in even one "supernatural" being, why should I not believe in all of them?
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 1, 2014 15:40:56 GMT -5
Do you believe in the supernatural? Bubbles ~ I rather doubt DMG believes in the supernatural any more than she believes in the existence of a God behind the early formation of the universe? It's all comes under the general description of atheistic beliefs, IMHO?
Thank you Faune, but in all due respect, can you just let me explain my own beliefs?
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Post by bubbles on Sept 1, 2014 19:37:35 GMT -5
Do you believe in the supernatural? Short answer, NO.
Bubbles, If I believed in even one "supernatural" being , at what point should I NOT believe in a another?
Let's just say that I might believe in the resurrection of Jesus and his ascension” into the sky. Would I also believe a Roman Emperor also ascended from his funeral pyre into sky?
Would I continue to believe that indeed there are "ghosts," -people who come back from the dead?
If I believed in all of these , would I continue to believe that there are fairies? bogarts? unicorns? and a real Santa Claus who lives at the North Pole and brings me presents at Christmas time?
SUPERNATURAL 1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil 2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit) If I believe in even one "supernatural" being, why should I not believe in all of them?Yes thats what I figured. I was responding to your childhood invisible friends.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 1, 2014 19:39:35 GMT -5
Dimmchgood
Do you think you have a spirit
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 1, 2014 21:26:46 GMT -5
Short answer, NO.
Bubbles, If I believed in even one "supernatural" being , at what point should I NOT believe in a another?
Let's just say that I might believe in the resurrection of Jesus and his ascension” into the sky. Would I also believe a Roman Emperor also ascended from his funeral pyre into sky?
Would I continue to believe that indeed there are "ghosts," -people who come back from the dead?
If I believed in all of these , would I continue to believe that there are fairies? bogarts? unicorns? and a real Santa Claus who lives at the North Pole and brings me presents at Christmas time?
SUPERNATURAL 1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil 2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit) If I believe in even one "supernatural" being, why should I not believe in all of them? Yes thats what I figured. I was responding to your childhood invisible friends. bubbles, You didn't answer my question.
If a person believes in even one supernatural being at what point do you say any of the others aren't true ? How do you pick which supernatural being is true & which one's aren't true? How many of the ones that I spoke of do YOU believe in?
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 1, 2014 21:34:55 GMT -5
Dimmchgood Do you think you have a spirit
First, can you answer my question, "If a person believes in even one supernatural being at what point do you say any of the others aren't true ?
And how do you pick which supernatural being is true & which one's aren't true? How many of the ones that I spoke of do YOU believe in?"
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Post by bubbles on Sept 2, 2014 1:45:36 GMT -5
Dimmchgood Do you think you have a spirit
First, can you answer my question, "If a person believes in even one supernatural being at what point do you say any of the others aren't true ?
And how do you pick which supernatural being is true & which one's aren't true? How many of the ones that I spoke of do YOU believe in?"
Apologies madam. Erm...when it comes to the supernatural I think anything is possible not all provable. Its a massive subject and controversial. Im sure you agree.
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Post by faune on Sept 2, 2014 2:04:02 GMT -5
Bubbles ~ I rather doubt DMG believes in the supernatural any more than she believes in the existence of a God behind the early formation of the universe? It's all comes under the general description of atheistic beliefs, IMHO?
Thank you Faune, but in all due respect, can you just let me explain my own beliefs?
DMG ~ My apology for butting in. I was just making a general comment about how atheists don't usually believe in gods of any kind or supernatural beings. I also figured you would have your own reply to Bubbles' inquiry to follow, too.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 2, 2014 15:08:03 GMT -5
First, can you answer my question, "If a person believes in even one supernatural being at what point do you say any of the others aren't true ?
And how do you pick which supernatural being is true & which one's aren't true? How many of the ones that I spoke of do YOU believe in?"
Apologies madam. Erm...when it comes to the supernatural I think anything is possible not all provable. Its a massive subject and controversial. Im sure you agree. Have you ever found anything supernatural provable?
That is why it is super-natural! It isn't "natural," so how can any super-natural person or event be proven?
It is indeed a "massive" subject. Seems some people relish believing in the super-natural.
However, why are you so sure I'll agree that it is controversial? It isn't controversial to me. It is the oldest con game in history!
I believe events obey the laws of physics & they aren't going to change for some someone to defy gravity & bodily and raise into the air without any propelling device as it is said about Jesus.
Bubbles , you still haven't answered the questions:
"If a person believes in even one supernatural being at what point do you say any of the others aren't true ?
How do you pick which supernatural being is true & which one's aren't true? How many of the ones that I spoke of do YOU believe in?"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 15:17:16 GMT -5
Mat_7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: Luk_11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 2, 2014 15:31:02 GMT -5
Mat_7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: Luk_11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. Wally, what did you find out that would answer my questions when you "Asked?" What were the answers?
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Post by xna on Sept 2, 2014 15:33:56 GMT -5
So it is written ...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 15:39:21 GMT -5
Mat_7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: Luk_11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. Wally, what did you find out that would answer my questions when you "Asked?" What were the answers?
the answer is Christ is Gods son, God is real, and hes coming back again...it didn't come to me overnight though it was a few months...and much prayer, reading and contemplation...
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Post by bubbles on Sept 2, 2014 23:19:49 GMT -5
b]Have you ever found anything supernatural provable?
Supernatural. Another dimension not the 3rd. Unseen.
Provable? Dimmchgood while I respect you as a person your questions sometimes irk the crap out of me because instead of allowing dialogue to flow you jump up and down to state your case. If I dont answer you jump higher. lets look back at ancient times where artists painted what they saw. Angels, chariots in the sky, enities with halos fire in the sky etc etc Jesus ,the sun. Serpents gods etc. How do you think artists new what to paint? They saw it or they dreamed it. With open visions or closed visions. it tells a story of life back then. because we didnt understand what they saw doesnt mean it didnt happen.
That is why it is super-natural! It isn't "natural," so how can any super-natural person or event be proven?
It is indeed a "massive" subject. Seems some people relish believing in the super-natural.
However, why are you so sure I'll agree that it is controversial? It isn't controversial to me. It is the oldest con game in history!
I believe events obey the laws of physics & they aren't going to change for some someone to defy gravity & bodily and raise into the air without any propelling device as it is said about Jesus.
Well yea physics is great. Wish inunderstood the subject more. I predict one day you might be surprised.
Bubbles , you still haven't answered the questions:
"If a person believes in even one supernatural being at what point do you say any of the others aren't true ?
How do you pick which supernatural being is true & which one's aren't true? How many of the ones that I spoke of do YOU believe in?"
[/b][/font][/quote]
Would you mind if I dont answer part of this question @ the moment? When you say true or not true I dont understand the question. Do you mean real? Or are you asking good or bad? One statement I will make is I do believe in the holy spirit. The reason being is I believe in the power of my God. Holy spirit is the power.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 2, 2014 23:21:57 GMT -5
And be careful you dont allow your con mindset to delude you into thinking everything is a lie that cant be proved.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 2, 2014 23:34:09 GMT -5
Wally, what did you find out that would answer my questions when you "Asked?" What were the answers?
the answer is Christ is Gods son, God is real, and hes coming back again...it didn't come to me overnight though it was a few months...and much prayer, reading and contemplation... Wally, what did you find out that would answer my questions when you "Asked?" What were the answers?
the answer is Christ is Gods son, God is real, and hes coming back again...it didn't come to me overnight though it was a few months...and much prayer, reading and contemplation... Wally, then this is your answer to my question of how do you pick which supernatural being is true & which one's aren't true? That it is how you decide though much prayer, reading and contemplation...
Is there anything else other than prayer, reading and contemplation... that you can give for you belief?
Do you believe that when someone else gives the same reason for how they came to their belief through much prayer, reading and contemplation... yet their belief was different, -say a belief of Islam , that their belief would also be accurate? PROVE IT!
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 2, 2014 23:39:53 GMT -5
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Post by bubbles on Sept 3, 2014 0:04:19 GMT -5
Quote:oldest con game...
Keep up darlin!
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