|
Post by fixit on Aug 18, 2014 5:46:52 GMT -5
If I and the friends and workers I know are not a representative sample of what those in the fellowship believe about Irvine, who is? Me and the friends and workers I know are just as representative as you and the friends and workers you know. For that matter, Cherie and the friends and workers she knew while in the fellowship was probably more representative than you or me.
|
|
|
Post by emy on Aug 18, 2014 14:31:21 GMT -5
If I and the friends and workers I know are not a representative sample of what those in the fellowship believe about Irvine, who is? Me and the friends and workers I know are just as representative as you and the friends and workers you know. For that matter, Cherie and the friends and workers she knew while in the fellowship was probably more representative than you or me. Does this answer the question?
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Aug 18, 2014 14:48:53 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Sept 1, 2014 14:36:37 GMT -5
Added September 1, 2014:
8 Court Cases for Libel filed 1911-1913 filed by F&W against William Dennis Wilson (7 cases filed in England; 1 case filed in Ireland)
Early History of the Work in Scotland
SOME EARLY AUSTRALIA-NEW ZEALAND HISTORY:
Australia Convention Location Lists for 1908 - 1974
A little about the first workers that went to Australia
The Coming of the Gospel to Australia and New Zealand
Data re the Gospel coming to Australia and New Zealand
NEWLY DISCOVERED NEWSPAPER ARTICLES:
September 16, 1908, p. 1 Washington Times, Maryland, USA - Brooklyn MD conv. tents turned
September 17, 1908, p2 Washington Post - Irvinites Pull up Stakes - Brooklyn MD conv. tents burned
September 17, 1908, p12 Altoona Tribune (Altoona, PA) - What a Mob did - set fire to Irvinites' tents
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Sept 1, 2014 16:24:31 GMT -5
William Irving + Harold Camping = False Prophets It's also highly probable that Irvine thought of himself as a prophet only later in life. He was spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit, I believe, along with all the other workers. Later, when questions arose around the growing exclusiveness of the f&w movement, is when the considerations of him being a prophet would come in. I've read some of Irvine's later diaries on TTT, and there is an incredible amount of hubris and thinking that major events all revolved around him. And Pattison and others testify to that as well. Probably, the 'exclusiveness' of the friends doesn't come from their doctrine. They just are exclusive and then the doctrine and explanations struggle to keep up with it. It's likely that after Irvine's expulsion some would have still thought of him as a prophet, especially anyone sycophantic or sympathetic to Irvine. But given that he was expelled the preponderance of thinking would be against that, and of course, he had been erased from the collective memory of the church some decades after his expulsion. If you believe that Irvine was "spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit" along with all the other workers; -do you also believe that the other religious movements that arose at that same period (late 1800's) were "spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit?"
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Sept 1, 2014 19:15:03 GMT -5
It's also highly probable that Irvine thought of himself as a prophet only later in life. He was spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit, I believe, along with all the other workers. Later, when questions arose around the growing exclusiveness of the f&w movement, is when the considerations of him being a prophet would come in. I've read some of Irvine's later diaries on TTT, and there is an incredible amount of hubris and thinking that major events all revolved around him. And Pattison and others testify to that as well. Probably, the 'exclusiveness' of the friends doesn't come from their doctrine. They just are exclusive and then the doctrine and explanations struggle to keep up with it. It's likely that after Irvine's expulsion some would have still thought of him as a prophet, especially anyone sycophantic or sympathetic to Irvine. But given that he was expelled the preponderance of thinking would be against that, and of course, he had been erased from the collective memory of the church some decades after his expulsion. If you believe that Irvine was "spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit" along with all the other workers; -do you also believe that the other religious movements that arose at that same period (late 1800's) were "spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit?"
Yes I do. The f&w were one branch of what has been termed "The Great Awakening" of the 19th century. Sometimes they put a number on it, like "Second Great Awakening" or "Third Great Awakening". Since there's no consistency in numbering these "awakenings", I leave the number off.
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Oct 1, 2014 14:42:08 GMT -5
I just posted my latest historical "finds" on What's New on TTT -- for October LINK: www.tellingthetruth.info/home/whatsnew.phpIf you go to the link above, you will be able to click on the links to the following items.
They are: List of Wm Irvine's Trips Abroad 1903 - 1919 List of Edward Cooney's Trips Abroad 1909 -1959 1963-64 Workers List Worldwide List of: Worker Locations after 1912-13 Conventions Early UK Convention Job Assignment List (probably Crocknacrieve) 1913 Crocknacrieve Conv. Receipts & Expenditures Newspaper Article in Indianapolis News (Indiana) September 26, 1921 titled: Religious Group led by "Tramp Preachers" in State Convention RE: McCordsville Convention held on George Helms property Newspaper Article May 16, 2014 - Washington Co. Daily News (Wisconsin) By Dan Muckelbauer Itinerant preachers follow in apostles' footsteps RE: Workers Stanley March, Eric Nueske & Perry Pearson in Wisconsin USA OLDEST USA Newspaper Article found to date: Colorado Springs Weekly Gazette, December 1, 1904 "New Pilgrim's Progress in Ireland." QUOTE: Mr. Walker said that he thinks some Christians have believed as his people do since the days of Christ. About twenty-two years ago, he said, church members in England and north Ireland became interested in the doctrines, and out of this has come the spread of the faith into this country, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. In recent years, preachers have gone into South America. William Irvine, a Scotchman, one of the original leaders, is not now affiliated with this group because of a difference over the prophecies of the Revelations, Mr. Walker said. [1921 minus 22 years = 1898 start date per Geo. Walker] Photos of graves of John Hardie and Joe Williamson, Overseers of Victoria, Australia NOTE: Next month I plan to add a large number of Irvine's old letters that I received recently.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 2, 2014 9:34:42 GMT -5
Was William Irvine a Prophet?A prophet of God could start out as a good prophet but because of pride, disobedience to God's words he can become a false prophet..... King Saul was a prophet of God but pride and disobedience, He didn't answer his prayers, or any requests.... Judas is another one.
Any prophet who refuse to obey God's words or instructions continuously will eventually become false prophet. God will not speak or respond to him. William Irvine started out a good prophet/messenger but because of his stubbornest and not willing to be corrected of his errors in teachings (he was one of the 2 living Witnesses in Revelation, the end of the world during WWI, misbehavior with women, etc)
I don't believe WI was a prophet at all! I believe he was an experimenter! That' was his claim, "The great experiment" where men took the doctrine of Matt. 10 to see if it would work within their days and society. They were surprised that they had some success with it. Thus WI got the feeling he was on the right course and thus got so troubled in his mental being that he thought himself so special as to be one of the 2 witnesses. No, WI's success in the "great experiment" just gave him the big head...after all he was very evidently a psychological sick man to start with!
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 2, 2014 9:45:59 GMT -5
It's also highly probable that Irvine thought of himself as a prophet only later in life. He was spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit, I believe, along with all the other workers. Later, when questions arose around the growing exclusiveness of the f&w movement, is when the considerations of him being a prophet would come in. I've read some of Irvine's later diaries on TTT, and there is an incredible amount of hubris and thinking that major events all revolved around him. And Pattison and others testify to that as well. Probably, the 'exclusiveness' of the friends doesn't come from their doctrine. They just are exclusive and then the doctrine and explanations struggle to keep up with it. It's likely that after Irvine's expulsion some would have still thought of him as a prophet, especially anyone sycophantic or sympathetic to Irvine. But given that he was expelled the preponderance of thinking would be against that, and of course, he had been erased from the collective memory of the church some decades after his expulsion. If you believe that Irvine was "spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit" along with all the other workers; -do you also believe that the other religious movements that arose at that same period (late 1800's) were "spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit?"
I don't believe any of them were moved by the Holy Spirit! Simply because Jesus did not start a physical "church" group or denomination! And the Holy Spirit is the Spirit that emanates from the Father and the Son, isn't it? So if Jesus had not made a physical church group or denomination, why would the Holy Spirit do so years later? I think all of these churches that popped up during those years were from man's imaginations of where the established churches had gone wrong, having left out some of the more important things a church needs to have. But in that it becomes the reverse need to where people now are looking at those churches now having not the right things that the established churches of the 20th century churches had....it all comes down to the imaginations of mankind and what they think is important.....Man's ideas becoming doctrine and commandments!
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Oct 2, 2014 14:44:28 GMT -5
If you believe that Irvine was "spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit" along with all the other workers; -do you also believe that the other religious movements that arose at that same period (late 1800's) were "spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit?"
Yes I do. The f&w were one branch of what has been termed "The Great Awakening" of the 19th century. Sometimes they put a number on it, like "Second Great Awakening" or "Third Great Awakening". Since there's no consistency in numbering these "awakenings", I leave the number off. What Hat, you are saying that you do believe that the other religious movements that arose at that same period (late 1800's) were "spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit?"
Then do you believe that all of those different churches arising from the "Great Awakenings" are correct in their beliefs & equal to the " f&w?"
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Oct 2, 2014 16:24:31 GMT -5
Yes I do. The f&w were one branch of what has been termed "The Great Awakening" of the 19th century. Sometimes they put a number on it, like "Second Great Awakening" or "Third Great Awakening". Since there's no consistency in numbering these "awakenings", I leave the number off. What Hat, you are saying that you do believe that the other religious movements that arose at that same period (late 1800's) were "spontaneously moved by the Holy Spirit?"
Then do you believe that all of those different churches arising from the "Great Awakenings" are correct in their beliefs & equal to the " f&w?"
Question 1. Yes, I believe they were. Question 2. I don't believe that any church or for that matter, any religion, has a lock on the truth. I think there is some good in all of them. But I'm also not a relativist; I don't think every church and religion equal. I've posted extensively about the history of that period generally, and how the f&w fit or might fit into the overall historical scheme of things. TTT has documented the events of the f&w quite well, but what intrigues me is how the friends sprang out of the Faith Mission and in turn out of the "Awakening" as a whole. I could say more, but I wonder where you're going with your question, so hit me with the next one, if that was a leading question as I suspect.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 3, 2014 16:22:41 GMT -5
I don't believe WI was a prophet at all! I believe he was an experimenter! That' was his claim, "The great experiment" where men took the doctrine of Matt. 10 to see if it would work within their days and society. They were surprised that they had some success with it. Thus WI got the feeling he was on the right course and thus got so troubled in his mental being that he thought himself so special as to be one of the 2 witnesses. No, WI's success in the "great experiment" just gave him the big head...after all he was very evidently a psychological sick man to start with! ~~ You are too harsh on WI and that is NOT fair. You have been feeding too much negative information on WI. This is from John Long who knew WI from the start. He spoke very highly of WI.~~ John Long wrote in 12/1898: "The mission ended with an all day conference, that was attended by many noble servants of the Lord, among them was George C. Grubb, whose testimony concerning going on Faith lines helped me to make the final decision that night. William Irvine wanted me to join the Faith Mission, but I was not clear about it being the will of God, only to venture out on non-sectarian Lines of Faith. The powerful principal of Irvine's way of discipline; also the standard of obedience, self denial and liberty, imitating the pattern as seen in Jesus; were sure to clash with the ritual and rules of ecclesiastical ministry; and the opposition to his method became more and more manifest every day; so that it meant either a reformation with the one, or a separation by the other. Irvine being a man of foresight, and feeling the tremendous responsibility of being a reformer and leader against his will, made him give a soul touching and loving address; and left the conference with a broken Spirit, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief, like His Master." William Irvine, Faith Mission preacher from 1893-1915. John Long/Faith Mission Union members in 1898-1915 were TRUE blue Faith Mission Faith liners. Faith Mission had a 2x2 apostolic ministry but NOT New Testament fellowship. They make converts but tell them to join the churches of your choice. They didn't teach or participate in Christ's Passover/Eucharists/Emblems in their Union Prayer services.~~~ John Long was a non-exclusive work 2x2 worker. 99.0% of the 2x2 workers didn't agree with John Long way of doing thing with his converts, he sent them to join the churches of their choice. John Long was sending his converts back to the Lion's dens. John Long was a Faith Mission Union prayer member from 1898-1915. He was excommunicated from the 2x2 group in 1907.July 1907 Crocknacrieve, Ballinamallard, Co. Fermanagh A Large Tent With A Platform & Several Preachers On It. William Irvine wrote: " John Long was always the Brake on our Progress. When we set out to follow Jesus, he was selling Books and settled as a Methodist. He was convinced that we were right and cast in his lot with us. But he was not convinced that the Clergy were wrong, and there has always been a holding back in him. For years he has been dragging his feet on the ground to hinder our going on, and let him prove whether God will be with him as He has been with us. From John Long's Journal: tellingthetruth.info/publications_johnlong/3longjohn.php#1907From John Long's Journal: John Long was a Faith Mission Union prayer from 1898-1915 1/1900: Samuel Boyd left me to go home, and I went to Milton of Campsie, where I had a week’s mission in the established Church of Scotland. For a pastor to say of an Evangelist, “I have no need of thee” is a mistake; and for an Evangelist to say of a pastor "there is no need for thee" is a mistake; the work and office of both are Scriptural and should not be done without. My next mission was in the State Quarries, near Abberfoyle, in a Faith Mission Prayer Union; being asked by the representative, while there Samuel Boyd joined me again. Wherever the Faith Mission has a successful mission, they endeavor to form a Prayer Union; and according to their rules, it is not a new sect; neither is intended to be; yet I have known the mention of it to be opposed by the existing sects. I had been a member for two years. When I resigned the colporteur work in November, 1898, William Irvine wanted me to join the staff of Pilgrims. I applied to J. G. Govan and was accepted; nevertheless he knew that I was seeking to know the will of God as to whether I should join the [Faith] mission or go on Matthew Ten Lines. At the Conference held in Roscrea in December, 1899, on the way home I let the Lord make the choice; and it was on the Matthew Ten side, so I wrote to J. G. Govan telling him that I was led in the matter not to join the Faith Mission, and he wrote me a nice letter in return saying that he was glad I was guided in the matter and would like to know in the mean time how it worked out. Though I often prayed and spoke in a Prayer Union, that was the only mission I ever had in one of them; except in Bennybridge, September, 1915. J. G. Govan put a paragraph in their monthly periodical, Bright Words, I remember the words were to this effect: “There are workers going about holding missions in our Prayer Unions and elsewhere who do not belong to us.” To that paragraph I would just like to add an advice of our Savior, “Forbid him not, for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.” Mark 9:39-40. From that time, I never renewed my membership. Nathan, I'm not being hard on WI, just saying what he proved himself...he went off the deep end and believed he was so important to God that he was one of the 2 witnesses in Revs. Well that was just the tip that broke the iceberh as to his psychological being! I'm not the only person who has said he was a narcisstic person!
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 4, 2014 9:04:55 GMT -5
The "telling" of other f&w's opinion of WI is his excommunication! Oh yes, they thought so much of him, they couldn't deposit him quick enough. The way they went about getting rid of him kind of cancels all their earlier correspondence of how wonderful a prophet he was, don't you think? They had to go through the disillusionment that WI wasn't the person they thought all along he was, in order for them to excommunicate him...he'd gone off the deep end in what he thought of his own importance in being one of the 2 witnesses in Revs. He became an embarrassment for some of the older workers, yet they were afraid to deck him due to his great following of some friends.......but in the last they did just that......seems to me that all the approval given about and to him before that time had been cancelled not only in their minds and hearts, but in anyone who would read all the correspondence and facts coming down years later! WI had a brief time when he was thought to be something great, but time quickly made him something else as far as his peers were concerned. Even JL's experiences with Wi tell of WI's lack of compassion....JL nearly starving to death because he was not given the funds to help him by WI, but WI was sure to be using JL for his own purposes!
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Oct 4, 2014 10:37:29 GMT -5
I cant recall anytime Irvine let someone starve... I think you mean Cooney--not John Long. However Irvine was long gone when Cooney was rejected. John Long had family in Ireland he could go to if hungry. Also, no records have been found that John Long travelled outside the UK, while Cooney did. "The rift deepened and a complete ban was placed upon Cooney in a successful attempt to deny him support in the USA and Canada. He said he would have starved if he had not left preaching and found employment in the USA in his former trade, the clothing business.” (The Secret Sect by Doug & Helen Parker, p. 75) Chap 25 WmI book on TTT: While Doug was visiting his cousins in Ireland, he also met some of the friends who had been put out of the 2x2 sect. He learned about the Division of 1928. He met the Wests and Fred Wood, his wife and children in Belfast. Fred was a devoted companion of Edward Cooney who was also excommunicated. Those who had befriended and supported Edward Cooney had been ostracized from the rest of the 2x2 sect. Fred Wood and Eddie Cooney were truly "Tramp Preachers" which was one of their nicknames. They had nothing other than the clothes on their backs. Not surprising, they had a reputation for smelling, because they only had one suit of clothes. They rarely had any money and lived from day to day. If someone didn't offer them a place to spend the night in, they had no bed to sleep in. Sometimes they slept in fields. One particular cold night in London, they almost died from exposure. Finally, someone in the 2x2 sect allowed them to sleep in their non-insulated woodshed. Fred Wood said, “We had to rub each other through the night to keep alive.” Fred wept in front of Doug as he recalled how he and Eddie Cooney nearly froze to death, all because they dared to question the road the sect was going down. Some would have let them die–out of obedience to the workers' command. See list of Cooney's travels here: www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_early/cooney_trips.php
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Nov 10, 2014 18:09:39 GMT -5
I just posted What's New on TTT? for November 2014There are 95 "new" letters written by Wm Irvine, including the earliest known letter to be found as of this date. Also: Epilogue to Vietnam Account - October 2014 1953-54 Workers List (North America & Canada) 1980-81 Workers List (North America & Canada)
|
|
|
Post by faune on Nov 10, 2014 18:56:38 GMT -5
Was William Irvine a Prophet?A prophet of God could start out as a good prophet but because of pride, disobedience to God's words he can become a false prophet..... King Saul was a prophet of God but pride and disobedience, He didn't answer his prayers, or any requests.... Judas is another one.
Any prophet who refuse to obey God's words or instructions continuously will eventually become false prophet. God will not speak or respond to him. William Irvine started out a good prophet/messenger but because of his stubbornest and not willing to be corrected of his errors in teachings (he was one of the 2 living Witnesses in Revelation, the end of the world during WWI, misbehavior with women, etc)
I don't believe WI was a prophet at all! I believe he was an experimenter! That' was his claim, "The great experiment" where men took the doctrine of Matt. 10 to see if it would work within their days and society. They were surprised that they had some success with it. Thus WI got the feeling he was on the right course and thus got so troubled in his mental being that he thought himself so special as to be one of the 2 witnesses. No, WI's success in the "great experiment" just gave him the big head...after all he was very evidently a psychological sick man to start with! Sharingtheriches ~ I agree! A couple years before William Irvine's excommunication by the others, he seemingly became very delusional in his thinking and even predicted the world would soon come to an end in August 1914 along with what you shared above. What I find intriguing is that Irvine's teachings had a lot of similarities to that of Charles Russell, founder of the Jehovah Witnesses, who also predicted the world's end in October 1914 ~ one month later than Irvine's in his Omega Doctrine. It just stands to reason that the others felt he had "lost his marbles" and had no desire to go down on a "sinking ship" due the "end of the age of grace" under William Irvine. The other senior workers already had too much invested to see it all thrown to the wind due to Irvine's ravings and he had to go to protect their interests, IMHO?
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Nov 30, 2014 21:17:15 GMT -5
Added to TTT December 2014:1913 New Zealand Sister Workers List and Letter by Willie J. Hughes (typed) 1913 New Zealand Sister Workers List and Letter by Willie J. Hughes (image) (Click "Next" for page 2)
1912-13 Worker Lists - Earliest Lists since 1905:1912-13 ALL Worker Locations after Conventions (Worldwide) 1913 List of ALL Foreign Workers (Sisters Only) from U.K. 1913 List of USA Sister Workers from U.K (typed) 1913 List of USA Sister Workers from U.K. (George Walker's List) 1913 British North America Sister Workers (Canada) from U.K. 1913 Australian Sister Workers from U.K. 1912-13 New Zealand Sister Workers 1913 South African Sister Workers from U.K.
November 10, 2014 - Daily Telegram, Adrian, Michigan USA 105-year-old Adrian woman reflects on life and ministry By Dan Cherry RE: Retired Sister Worker Lillian Tenniswood age 105 yrs old www.tellingthetruth.info/home/whatsnew.php
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 5:28:03 GMT -5
By virtue of the Holy Spirit, unleashed by Jesus at Pentecost, all of God's people are "prophets."
It started with the gift of languages where a wide variety of tongues were heard from the mouths of Peter et al. Peter explained to the crowd thus, (from Acts 2):
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
In former times "Prophets" were a select few specially chosen by God to "speak his word." This was the primary purpose, although some of them were occasionally sent visions foretelling future events, interpreting dreams, etc. On this it could be judged as to whether they were true Prophets or false.
The main purpose of a Prophet or prophet was/is to speak the word of God; that is where the most spiritual profit is. It does not profit us, even if we are prophets, if we do not heed prophecy (word of God). Today, according to the grace of God, through his Son Jesus Christ and by God's divine power, the Holy Spirit, everyone who comes under the will of God is a prophet and is commanded to witness by word and deed the life of Christ.
William Irvine was certainly a "prophet" (speaking the word of God). Whether he was a true prophet or a false one should be judged against the Word of God. Matthew 24 warns us very much against false prophets. They will be very common, probably in such numbers that true prophets are obscured.
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
There will be "few" true prophets, especially these days. How do we know this? Because Jesus assures us that "few" will be saved, i.e. find the straight way and narrow gate. It is only those "few" who will be true "prophets" i.e. speaking the true word of God by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Other "nice and appealing" spirits will deceive the "many."
When Jesus uses a term such as "few," he means "few." When he uses a term such as "many," he means "many." Just how few is few and how many is many is open to debate, but one thing is sure, the terms can be truly measured against each other.
Christendom today is saturated with false prophets. If spritual discernment were an olfactory sense, they would be clearly identified by a strong stench.
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Jan 7, 2015 9:51:17 GMT -5
What's New on TTT for January, 2015? 75 Covers of 2x2 Related Books Division in Greece, 1985 - Nicolas Papadakis Division in Canadian Maritimes - Willie Martin Account of Gospel Coming to Traytown, Newfoundland, Canada in 1912 Suspicious Death of Alfred Carson Cooney - Edward Cooney's Brother - Ruled a Suicide - Newspaper Articles: September 2, 1909 - Impartial Reporter September 2, 1909 - Fermanagh Times (2 articles) September 2, 1909 - Fermanagh Times September 4, 1909 - Fermanagh Herald - Tragic death of Mr. A. C. Cooney, solicitor September 4, 1909, p.1 - Anglo-Celt - Tragic Death of Alfred Cooney. Edward Cooney's brother
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 7, 2015 13:05:13 GMT -5
I cant recall anytime Irvine let someone starve... I think you mean Cooney--not John Long. However Irvine was long gone when Cooney was rejected. John Long had family in Ireland he could go to if hungry. Also, no records have been found that John Long travelled outside the UK, while Cooney did. "The rift deepened and a complete ban was placed upon Cooney in a successful attempt to deny him support in the USA and Canada. He said he would have starved if he had not left preaching and found employment in the USA in his former trade, the clothing business.” (The Secret Sect by Doug & Helen Parker, p. 75) Chap 25 WmI book on TTT: While Doug was visiting his cousins in Ireland, he also met some of the friends who had been put out of the 2x2 sect. He learned about the Division of 1928. He met the Wests and Fred Wood, his wife and children in Belfast. Fred was a devoted companion of Edward Cooney who was also excommunicated. Those who had befriended and supported Edward Cooney had been ostracized from the rest of the 2x2 sect. Fred Wood and Eddie Cooney were truly "Tramp Preachers" which was one of their nicknames. They had nothing other than the clothes on their backs. Not surprising, they had a reputation for smelling, because they only had one suit of clothes. They rarely had any money and lived from day to day. If someone didn't offer them a place to spend the night in, they had no bed to sleep in. Sometimes they slept in fields. One particular cold night in London, they almost died from exposure. Finally, someone in the 2x2 sect allowed them to sleep in their non-insulated woodshed. Fred Wood said, “We had to rub each other through the night to keep alive.” Fred wept in front of Doug as he recalled how he and Eddie Cooney nearly froze to death, all because they dared to question the road the sect was going down. Some would have let them die–out of obedience to the workers' command. See list of Cooney's travels here: www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_early/cooney_trips.phpCherie, this is where I got that impression..... " Then he denounced me again with two untrue accusations. One that I never got on well with any worker (no doubt taking advantage of the rupture between me and John Reyston). The other that I lived for years on his testimony. Unto these I said but little and let the thing pass by. But if God used him to open up my way in Scotland; God used me to open up his way in Ireland; and during the ten years since the revival began with very little exception, I was in lodgings; and hard put to it at times and received very little financial help from him. I was too quiet for William Irvine, and he was a warrior and an able conversationalist." Also all during his "tent" days, he spoke of many times that he and his companion, if he had one, were strapped financially.....The above is just his "summary" of of those days, IMO!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 14:30:47 GMT -5
Just a little aside here. In the text "Anne of Green Gables" the author refers to the "black stockings."
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 7, 2015 20:13:44 GMT -5
If I and the friends and workers I know are not a representative sample of what those in the fellowship believe about Irvine, who is? Me and the friends and workers I know are just as representative as you and the friends and workers you know. For that matter, Cherie and the friends and workers she knew while in the fellowship was probably more representative than you or me. I agree, fixit.
If it hadn't been for all the research that Cherie & others had done, a lot of the friends & workers wouldn't know near as much as they do today.
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Jan 7, 2015 20:43:47 GMT -5
Just a little aside here. In the text "Anne of Green Gables" the author refers to the "black stockings." Not surprising - the books have the same author: by Lucy Maud Montgomery (Mistress Pat and Anne of GG).
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Feb 3, 2015 13:07:16 GMT -5
What’s New on TTT for February?Another 2x2 Church name found: Christian Conventions of Australia Finding John Long's Journal Book: The Church Without a Name...and the Life, Ministry and Legacy of Wm Irvine Introduction Acknowledgments Autobiography - Quest for Truth Motives Division in the Canadian Maritimes 1968-69 - Willie Martin Two Funeral Services for Jack Carroll (Oakland, CA and Milltown, WA) Click Here to read items
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2015 19:25:58 GMT -5
Aside from that the fellowship obviously wasn't because of Irvine alone, others there then have said "it was as if hundreds rose from the earth as one man." $$$$' There were bunch of men and women ready to sell all and preach during the 1897-1914 era. If Irvine had the seed idea, hundreds jumped on ship shortly afterwards.
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Feb 10, 2015 12:23:10 GMT -5
Can you or anyone provide the names of the "others there then" you quoted?
And where may I read this statement in a document?
Thanx,
Cherie
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Feb 10, 2015 13:38:05 GMT -5
Just a little aside here. In the text "Anne of Green Gables" the author refers to the "black stockings." Hi Dennis. I have heard this before, from a worker, but it's a myth. Our daughters were avid fans of the books, and my wife read the 5 volume diaries of Lucy Maud Montgomery. (These were a best seller here). No mention of "black stockings". Just to be sure I ran a search on the text. It's available on this page. www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/45/pg45.txtNow that I think of it, one of our daughters played "Anne" in a school production, and even dyed her hair red, AND went to convention with it that way. Might be interesting to start a thread on friend and worker legends, as I've heard a number over the years. I'm sure some are true. For example, there was the relative of Queen Victoria who professed but could not attend meeting. Abraham Lincoln, whether he professed or not, probably went to heaven. And there are others, no doubt.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 14:38:26 GMT -5
Thank you for the correction.
Strange though, when our daughter read that series she found it and brought it to our attention. I have no explanation.
|
|