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Post by Persona non grata on Jul 31, 2014 12:46:49 GMT -5
... So I find it an interesting thing to see just how many people do things because their parents did it, or believed things because their parents did. I'm not saying that is wrong. In many cases emulating your parents is a good thing. But unless we are given the freedom, and sometimes a reason to question, we likely just follow along in their footsteps in many ways not even thinking much about it. I agree completely. I suspect that this is the case for many "professing" people; just continuing on after their parents without any true conviction of faith.
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Post by snow on Jul 31, 2014 12:59:01 GMT -5
... So I find it an interesting thing to see just how many people do things because their parents did it, or believed things because their parents did. I'm not saying that is wrong. In many cases emulating your parents is a good thing. But unless we are given the freedom, and sometimes a reason to question, we likely just follow along in their footsteps in many ways not even thinking much about it. I agree completely. I suspect that this is the case for many "professing" people; just continuing on after their parents without any true conviction of faith. I think I would have too if it hadn't been the workers attitude toward some things that were bothering me regarding exclusivity. Of course at the time I didn't understand exclusivity because I was 12, but what I asked was how God could damn so many people that are good to hell for not being part of the Truth? No answers except the patented ones like they will find the way if they are willing etc. When I kept pressing the issue, they just got angry and said some things that turned me away completely from that time onward. If they hadn't done that I probably would still be in that religion. So if there is a God, God bless the workers for showing me the error of my ways!
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Post by Persona non grata on Jul 31, 2014 12:59:50 GMT -5
Rational & PNG ~ I would guess that both of your parents were not exclusive hardliners as some others within the 2x2's and that helped in giving you a broader outlook on life in general? Personally, I feel kids who came from families where they felt in bondage to all the rules and regulations of the F&W's, rebelled by adulthood and never looked back? I feel the biggest obstacle within the 2x2's was the exclusivity in their beliefs, which was a big turn-off to me even when young. I never could buy into that mentality and felt it was not a healthy or logical approach to life or religious beliefs in general. Perhaps that's one reason why I could move on to another fellowship eventually, although it did take me years to feel comfortable in any other church after 30 years of 2x2 programming.
That's why I say it only makes sense that a number who leave the 2x2's become agnostic or atheistic due to the problems associated with adapting to outside religious practices and beliefs regarding Christianity. Also, I can see why some even turn to New Age as an alternative to Christianity, since it's more inclusive than exclusive over all.
I'm not sure about your definition of "hardliners" - in my case my parents were certainly faithful adherents to the ministry and fellowship and well respected by the workers. As I stated earlier, in theory they did subscribe to the only way doctrine, but in practice they were inclusive of "outsider" Christians too. I believe that children have a wonderful ability to learn from what they see practiced, regardless of the theory being taught.
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Post by Persona non grata on Jul 31, 2014 13:19:33 GMT -5
In my case you are absolutely wrong. My advice to you would be to stick to what people have actually posted and not guess about the circumstances that are not in evidence. Rational ~ Perhaps I did make a mistake in assuming from both your descriptions that your parents were not like the very straight-laced parents who follow the workers to the letter, since you both spoke of having no regrets over being B&R within the faith? That was just a reasonable guess on my part and I could have been entirely wrong? I just figured that both of your parents were more balanced in their worldly view compared to some professing parents I have known in the past who worshiped the workers and followed their every guideline for their kids raising within the 2x2's to the letter? I know more than a few ex-members today who really resented the strictness of their 2x2 raising and all the workers' restrictions, along with all the things they missed out on as young adults due to being B&R within this faith. I felt it taught young kids to be deceitful, if they wanted to fix in with their peers and enjoy a few harmless pleasures as youngsters? You either withdrew into this narrow world view of the 2x2's or you bucked the system and joined the non-conformists among the youth? JMT
Just to expand a little for you, faune: My parents taught me that we were to believe the bible. That meant that the particular whims of individual workers were not to be valued higher than the teachings of Jesus. In practice that meant that worker reprimands about our hair styles (for some it was too long, for others it was too short) or about us going to the movies, could just be ignored. We were taught rather to follow our own conscience (and of course the bible was to be the basis for this.)
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Post by Persona non grata on Jul 31, 2014 13:28:07 GMT -5
Also, FWIW, while my parents and I may not be 100% in agreement today, we still have a great deal of mutual respect.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 31, 2014 20:24:11 GMT -5
The Jesus Camp is really like what Hitler did in Germany. Whip up a crowd to hysteria & you make make them do nearly anything. Dmmichgood ~ No kidding! Have you ever read Mein Kampf and wondered how such a mad man could have ever risen to power in the first place? That's one reason why these extreme Right Wingers scare me silly! Their concept of the end justifying the means taken to extreme resulted in a number of senseless deaths over prejudice and greed. You would think that people would learn their lessons from such depravity of mind, but it never seems to amaze me how history does repeat itself when the same kind of people come to power again within the world due to never learning from the past? A while back I read A Concise Biography of Adolph Hitler by Thomas Fuchs and it sent chills up my spine to see how he came to power and abused the same and even used religion to justify his cruel deeds, while people sung his praises! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf www.amazon.com/A-Concise-Biography-Adolf-Hitler/dp/0425173402#reader_0425173402 Hitler wasn't the first nor the last who used religion to justify their actions.
Actually, there were those who thought that those Nazis who followed Hitler surely must be psychological impaired somehow. For the most part, they found that not to be true.
In fact a lot has been identified as to the whole psychological reasoning behind the rise of Hitler.
Post WWII resulted in many an investigation along psychological lines as to why the people rallied behind Hitler or any other charismatic figure , for that matter.
Whipping up religious fervor against the Jews was certainly on aspect of his tactics.
People won't learn from the past unless they diligently seek to understand the history of why something happened in the past.
I believe that people are doing a better job of that these days, but I am also amazed at the crazy things that some people will still fall for.
Rather than taking each situation, event by event, it is better to learn the way the human mind works.
Then you have a template to understand and perceive how your own mind works, as well as others.
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2014 9:31:14 GMT -5
Dmmichgood ~ No kidding! Have you ever read Mein Kampf and wondered how such a mad man could have ever risen to power in the first place? That's one reason why these extreme Right Wingers scare me silly! Their concept of the end justifying the means taken to extreme resulted in a number of senseless deaths over prejudice and greed. You would think that people would learn their lessons from such depravity of mind, but it never seems to amaze me how history does repeat itself when the same kind of people come to power again within the world due to never learning from the past? A while back I read A Concise Biography of Adolph Hitler by Thomas Fuchs and it sent chills up my spine to see how he came to power and abused the same and even used religion to justify his cruel deeds, while people sung his praises! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf www.amazon.com/A-Concise-Biography-Adolf-Hitler/dp/0425173402#reader_0425173402 Hitler wasn't the first nor the last who used religion to justify their actions.
Actually, there were those who thought that those Nazis who followed Hitler surely must be psychological impaired somehow. For the most part, they found that not to be true.
In fact a lot has been identified as to the whole psychological reasoning behind the rise of Hitler.
Post WWII resulted in many an investigation along psychological lines as to why the people rallied behind Hitler or any other charismatic figure , for that matter.
Whipping up religious fervor against the Jews was certainly on aspect of his tactics.
People won't learn from the past unless they diligently seek to understand the history of the questions around the why something happened in the past.
I believe that people are doing a better job of that these days, but I am also amazed at the crazy things that some people will still fall for.
Rather than taking each situation, event by event, it is better to learn the way the human mind works.
Then you have a template to understand and perceive how your own mind works, as well as others.
Yes, no kidding. What really boggles the mind is that now those Jews are whipping up a fervor against the Palestinians and mostly because they are Muslim. People have slotted all Muslims into the extremist/terrorist model and so the Jews have a right to bomb them because of that.
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Post by faune on Aug 1, 2014 10:03:37 GMT -5
Hitler wasn't the first nor the last who used religion to justify their actions.
Actually, there were those who thought that those Nazis who followed Hitler surely must be psychological impaired somehow. For the most part, they found that not to be true.
In fact a lot has been identified as to the whole psychological reasoning behind the rise of Hitler.
Post WWII resulted in many an investigation along psychological lines as to why the people rallied behind Hitler or any other charismatic figure , for that matter.
Whipping up religious fervor against the Jews was certainly on aspect of his tactics.
People won't learn from the past unless they diligently seek to understand the history of the questions around the why something happened in the past.
I believe that people are doing a better job of that these days, but I am also amazed at the crazy things that some people will still fall for.
Rather than taking each situation, event by event, it is better to learn the way the human mind works.
Then you have a template to understand and perceive how your own mind works, as well as others.
Yes, no kidding. What really boggles the mind is that now those Jews are whipping up a fervor against the Palestinians and mostly because they are Muslim. People have slotted all Muslims into the extremist/terrorist model and so the Jews have a right to bomb them because of that. Snow & Dmmichgood ~ I agree and it saddens me to read the daily news reports about this clash abroad between the Jews and Palestinians, which seems based in religious beliefs. When you think of the different Inquisitions and Crusades down through the centuries since Jesus of Nazareth came on the scene, it's truly sad to see how people took their beliefs to the extreme in the loss of lives over differences. I wonder what point is really served by bullying people into accepting your way of thinking or die resisting?
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2014 10:07:54 GMT -5
Yes, no kidding. What really boggles the mind is that now those Jews are whipping up a fervor against the Palestinians and mostly because they are Muslim. People have slotted all Muslims into the extremist/terrorist model and so the Jews have a right to bomb them because of that. Snow & Dmmichgood ~ I agree and it saddens me to read the daily news reports about this clash abroad between the Jews and Palestinians, which seems based in religious beliefs. When you think of the different Inquisitions and Crusades down through the centuries since Jesus of Nazareth came on the scene, it's truly sad to see how people took their beliefs to the extreme in the loss of lives over differences. I wonder what point is really served by bullying people into accepting your way of thinking or die resisting? There is no point to bullying people to think like you do or accept your way. Privately they never change what they think or accept. Change doesn't come with fear, only with common ground reached through understanding.
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Post by Gene on Aug 1, 2014 17:03:06 GMT -5
Snow & Dmmichgood ~ I agree and it saddens me to read the daily news reports about this clash abroad between the Jews and Palestinians, which seems based in religious beliefs. When you think of the different Inquisitions and Crusades down through the centuries since Jesus of Nazareth came on the scene, it's truly sad to see how people took their beliefs to the extreme in the loss of lives over differences. I wonder what point is really served by bullying people into accepting your way of thinking or die resisting? There is no point to bullying people to think like you do or accept your way. Privately they never change what they think or accept. Change doesn't come with fear, only with common ground reached through understanding. Lloyd Wilson, deceased worker and former companion, had a quote from that: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2014 17:31:06 GMT -5
There is no point to bullying people to think like you do or accept your way. Privately they never change what they think or accept. Change doesn't come with fear, only with common ground reached through understanding. Lloyd Wilson, deceased worker and former companion, had a quote from that: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." Pretty much.
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Archie
Junior Member
Non,je ne regrette rein!!!!
Posts: 64
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Post by Archie on Aug 2, 2014 3:53:04 GMT -5
I'm glad for my childhood in 2x2 , we had a simple and wanted nothing more , life. It was our lifestyle. Our parents guided and nurtured , life's Path.
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Post by magpie on Aug 6, 2014 23:37:09 GMT -5
Being born and raised in the 2x2s is the QUESTION. Sitting at convention and listening to a sick mentally disorded paedophile claiming he was given Godly powers to be His true servant,gave me and other of family and mates the @#$%^&*,he has retired now. Another part of growing up believing we are the only ones going to heaven? Well in our sunday mtgs was a sacked worker we and the local kids at school knew him as Fiddler. I had up to early teens had a secret in "FEAR"with him 10 YEARS!!!. Also the one on the platform a little less,thankfully. Now looking back,what a dangerous situation to place a childs mind in,nearly destroyed me for years? What was a normal life to one of Gods children,haunted me? Over and above the lovely christian kids and moral families in the district? Now a world wide problem is showing up within the unbiblical demanded celibate ministry,as the RCchurch attracts the unatural (perhaps not all)but 1 Corinthians 9,v 5/6 ,is a good start. Now add to the two paedophiles I mentioned above,one more playing psuedo Godly Elder in South Amerisa,The three was the cause of the tragic dimise of Ian Parker. Now you may understand why I sought dellerverance from the 2x2s exclusivism mind control and fellowship to where Gods Grace is abundent. Common talk amongst fence sitting scared of Gods liberation waiting for them outside of a mind control 2x2 sect,that they are sure the Henderson childrens children suicides was far deeper and it a fear of further CSA abuse. If not true why are the fence sitters yapping about it? So just a little why I felt God (because I pleaded)led me to a more fruitfulling fellowship away from the Christian Conventions (ex Christian Assemblies of Australia) This of course by the judgementalness of 2x2s EXCLUSIVENESS I am destined to hell."WHY". think deeply.
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Post by fixit on Aug 7, 2014 2:07:38 GMT -5
Being born and raised in the 2x2s is the QUESTION. Sitting at convention and listening to a sick mentally disorded paedophile claiming he was given Godly powers to be His true servant,gave me and other of family and mates the @#$%^&*,he has retired now. Another part of growing up believing we are the only ones going to heaven? Well in our sunday mtgs was a sacked worker we and the local kids at school knew him as Fiddler. I had up to early teens had a secret in "FEAR"with him 10 YEARS!!!. Also the one on the platform a little less,thankfully. Now looking back,what a dangerous situation to place a childs mind in,nearly destroyed me for years? What was a normal life to one of Gods children,haunted me? Over and above the lovely christian kids and moral families in the district? Now a world wide problem is showing up within the unbiblical demanded celibate ministry,as the RCchurch attracts the unatural (perhaps not all)but 1 Corinthians 9,v 5/6 ,is a good start. Now add to the two paedophiles I mentioned above,one more playing psuedo Godly Elder in South Amerisa,The three was the cause of the tragic dimise of Ian Parker. Now you may understand why I sought dellerverance from the 2x2s exclusivism mind control and fellowship to where Gods Grace is abundent. Common talk amongst fence sitting scared of Gods liberation waiting for them outside of a mind control 2x2 sect,that they are sure the Henderson childrens children suicides was far deeper and it a fear of further CSA abuse. If not true why are the fence sitters yapping about it? So just a little why I felt God (because I pleaded)led me to a more fruitfulling fellowship away from the Christian Conventions (ex Christian Assemblies of Australia) This of course by the judgementalness of 2x2s EXCLUSIVENESS I am destined to hell."WHY". think deeply. Have you considered reporting these perverted men to the police?
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Post by magpie on Aug 7, 2014 6:44:58 GMT -5
Hi Fixit,Thanks, they are well and truely under police watch,they watched Fiddler 1940/50/60s,now dead. Others brought to light,inc the one old retired one. But the third ( Elder in Uraquay.S.A) will face a welcoming committee on return. This welcoming committee wont be flag waving teenagers,somewhere along the line he will meet with them and see their shinny badges and boots mmmma & few cameras along the way. I am now closer to 80 than 70 now. Do look up until you find Carol Smits letter,try via "Ian Parker BiPOLAR research fund"
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Post by fixit on Aug 7, 2014 14:40:32 GMT -5
Hi Fixit,Thanks, they are well and truely under police watch,they watched Fiddler 1940/50/60s,now dead. Others brought to light,inc the one old retired one. But the third ( Elder in Uraquay.S.A) will face a welcoming committee on return. This welcoming committee wont be flag waving teenagers,somewhere along the line he will meet with them and see their shinny badges and boots mmmma & few cameras along the way. I am now closer to 80 than 70 now. Do look up until you find Carol Smits letter,try via "Ian Parker BiPOLAR research fund" bipolarresearchfund.org.au/ian-parker/www.facebook.com/bipolarresearchfundMags - how were the old retired one and others brought to light? There seems to be a lot of denial amongst friends and workers in Australia around CSA.
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Post by rational on Aug 7, 2014 15:22:19 GMT -5
I am now closer to 80 than 70 now. Do look up until you find Carol Smits letter,try via "Ian Parker BiPOLAR research fund" I am not able to locate a letter. Can you explain how bipolar research relates to the topic at hand?
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Post by Mary on Aug 7, 2014 16:06:00 GMT -5
Guess you saw the photo of Carol and newspaper article.
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Post by fixit on Aug 7, 2014 16:06:10 GMT -5
I am now closer to 80 than 70 now. Do look up until you find Carol Smits letter,try via "Ian Parker BiPOLAR research fund" I am not able to locate a letter. Can you explain how bipolar research relates to the topic at hand? Ian Parker was sexually abused as a young person.
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jscc1
Junior Member
Posts: 175
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Post by jscc1 on Aug 7, 2014 17:26:43 GMT -5
On Worker Friends and ex site Carol posts a "Pelagous" someone could find it there most likely articles on Jack Trigg.
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terry
Senior Member
Posts: 328
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Post by terry on Aug 7, 2014 18:42:02 GMT -5
I regret being raised in the 2x2. My parents tried and succeeded in allowing other kids to gather at our home, but it was under strict rules. Like bedtime at 9 on sat night etc. plus with my sister in the work, mom would send her a report after each gathering and then tell me what we did wrong. When in HS I convinced my parents to let me statistician for the basketball team. Sadly, when we went to the state championship, the workers had gospel mtgs so I had to miss the big run. When I saw how much fun my kids had in HS, I wept mentally for my lost youth.
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Post by Mary on Aug 7, 2014 18:50:06 GMT -5
I was meant to represent the school in athletics and the night it was on someone had a professing evening planned so I missed the competitions. I vowed that I would put my kids into sport outside of school and did although I was still professing. Things had changed a little by the time I grew up and had kids and that was one thing I would not compromise on having missed out in my youth. I did consider it a lost youth for many years but made up for it with my own kids doing the things I wasn't allowed or which was deemed not as important as an evening with professing people.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 7, 2014 21:03:21 GMT -5
I was meant to represent the school in athletics and the night it was on someone had a professing evening planned so I missed the competitions. I vowed that I would put my kids into sport outside of school and did although I was still professing. Things had changed a little by the time I grew up and had kids and that was one thing I would not compromise on having missed out in my youth. I did consider it a lost youth for many years but made up for it with my own kids doing the things I wasn't allowed or which was deemed not as important as an evening with professing people. Terry, Mary, -I do sympathize. Think about if you had had to do as I did. In my day we couldn't go in for any outside HS activities, so I had no such disappointing events as yours!
So, I couldn't have experienced those problems.
I had hard enough time just being able to wear shorts for gym class. I sewed myself a skirt I could wear over the shorts when we had gym class outside.
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Post by Mary on Aug 7, 2014 22:05:19 GMT -5
I was meant to represent the school in athletics and the night it was on someone had a professing evening planned so I missed the competitions. I vowed that I would put my kids into sport outside of school and did although I was still professing. Things had changed a little by the time I grew up and had kids and that was one thing I would not compromise on having missed out in my youth. I did consider it a lost youth for many years but made up for it with my own kids doing the things I wasn't allowed or which was deemed not as important as an evening with professing people. Terry, Mary, -I do sympathize. Think about if you had had to do as I did. In my day we couldn't go in for any outside HS activities, so I had no such disappointing events as yours!
So, I couldn't have experienced those problems.
I had hard enough time just being able to wear shorts for gym class. I sewed myself a skirt I could wear over the shorts when we had gym class outside.
I was not allowed to go outside of school for sporting activities either. It was a school event. Mum did let us wear shorts around home though. Just not in front of workers.
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Post by rational on Aug 7, 2014 22:29:21 GMT -5
I am not able to locate a letter. Can you explain how bipolar research relates to the topic at hand? Ian Parker was sexually abused as a young person. How does this relate to Ian Parker being bipolar?
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Post by Annan on Aug 8, 2014 11:46:49 GMT -5
Mum did let us wear shorts around home though. Just not in front of workers. I used to get upset at my parents for making my sister and I wear skirts/dresses when the workers were around when we wore pants and shorts any other time. I was told that shorts and pants offended the workers and as they were guests in our home it was our duty not to offend them, so was the reason for the skirts/dresses. I almost got slapped when I said my parents were hypocrites for letting the workers think we dressed like that all the time. We also were not allowed to go out and play with our friends when the workers were around. :/
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Post by faune on Aug 8, 2014 12:13:41 GMT -5
Mum did let us wear shorts around home though. Just not in front of workers. I used to get upset at my parents for making my sister and I wear skirts/dresses when the workers were around when we wore pants and shorts any other time. I was told that shorts and pants offended the workers and as they were guests in our home it was our duty not to offend them, so was the reason for the skirts/dresses. I almost got slapped when I said my parents were hypocrites for letting the workers think we dressed like that all the time. We also were not allowed to go out and play with our friends when the workers were around.
Annan ~ To be honest, I feel the 2x2's make a lot of people appear as hypocrites within the fellowship due to all their ridiculous rules of engagement! It's about as hypocritical as the workers themselves claiming to be celibate while they are engaging in secret affairs within the fellowship with other workers or professing members, starting with the overseers on down from various reports? Exactly who do they think they are fooling more than themselves? For sure, the faith encourages double standards by its very practices and requirements for membership! Maybe a few members follow these rules to the letter, but I doubt it's many by a long shot? If so, they must lead a very boring life, which eventually may erupt into worse behavior like CSA incidents to let off pinned up repressed feelings?
Also shared earlier...
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Post by faune on Aug 8, 2014 12:30:31 GMT -5
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